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Official MBR Tier List

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INSANE CARZY GUY

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Idk, Ive always pictured ICG as like this cute little kid.

hes probably a grown *** man with a mustache lol.

My real concern, something that has bothered me for awhile-Did he, or did he not, spell "Crazy" incorrectly on purpose. The world may never know.
LOL to good no i'm 16 I have never even shaved. I won't tell because it would ruin the misspelling of it.

"bowser mains rising to the top?"

what the **** are you talking about?

and your posts usually have absolutely nothing to do with what we're talking about and are nonsensical.
I said bowser because he is a tank. He can easily get up-B kills and jigglypuff isn't like fox who can just rush him or laser camp him to death.low tiers vs high tiers aren't that bad always. take zedla i've heard she does better vs higher tiers than lower tiers she does pretty good vs the ice climbers. no just because ____ is higher than _____ doesn't mean thet are in favor of the match-up.

pichu vs jigglypuff is dumb why would you say anything about that? the best way to get anything off is to sneak in a wd up-smash in between the bairs(lol you can duck under them sometimes) and then predict her di and thunder it isn't that great.

bowser hits hard and is heavy and can trade hits better than anyone esle I can think of puff can't rush him like needed. Kindof like gannondorf but not as easy to gimp and more common upwards kill power.
 

Pi

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You edited your post, to add this:

Hey puff isn't the best at punishing one grab isn't game(unless you suck at DIing) she can't do 15% on just f-tilt. ice climbers will always be the best punishers. jigglypuff may be close but you can live from rest at lower percents.
I mean...are you being serious? I really don't know what you're trying to do half the time
 

INSANE CARZY GUY

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sorry when you say but punishment ice climbers wobbleing pops in my head rest out of sheild normally only happens when they dash attack or something lagy that could also be grabbed. but really wobbleing vs rest and bair that's not a really great arguement.

As great as punishment as it is I've easily have taken more stocks form someone messing up their L-cancel on their light sheild. puff can't punish you for grabing can she? is 3 of her hits nearly as deadly as 3 from the ice climber? Ice climbers are also faster they can wd in and just down-smash the S*** out of you for being lagy.

puff is better for now easily but no she can't punish as hard.
 

JPOBS

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mango beat hbox with fox, 2 stocking him numerous times.

i think theres still hope.

and puff is slow as balls. the trick to beat her is to get in, hit her some, get out, rinse repeat.
 

Pi

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sorry when you say but punishment ice climbers wobbleing pops in my head rest out of sheild normally only happens when they dash attack or something lagy that could also be grabbed. but really wobbleing vs rest and bair that's not a really great arguement.

As great as punishment as it is I've easily have taken more stocks form someone messing up their L-cancel on their light sheild. puff can't punish you for grabing can she? is 3 of her hits nearly as deadly as 3 from the ice climber? Ice climbers are also faster they can wd in and just down-smash the S*** out of you for being lagy.

puff is better for now easily but no she can't punish as hard.
Ways puff can punish you:
If you land in front of him, grab -> stuff
Smash attack, or dash attack his shield -> rest
Whiff a grab and don't JC it -> rest
forcing you to UB onto the stage -> rest
miss a laggy B move -> rest
miss a tech -> rest

He's got up tilt, and up air -> rest combo's on quite a few members of the cast
Di a pound wrong -> rest
nair rest if the puff is feeling risky
the many options M2K listed

Puff is amazing at edge guarding and gimping

Ice climbers don't give nearly as much trouble as puff does when trying to recover.

Yea wobbling is nice, assuming you have both ice climbers on stage, in position, and either combo into a grab or your opponent does something stupid to your shield.

And sorry to burst your bubble but WD -> downsmash won't carry you to victory.
Especially if you spam it as much as you do on the forums.
 

john!

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I just want to say that at winterfest this weekend, a few days before it I practiced jiggs with Vidjo for a few hours, and then I 4 stocked Jman's Fox with her Sat morning. He camped me and won like 2/3rds of the games after that but most all of them were last stock and I 2 stokced him on brinstar without planking my first time ever doing that matchup on that stage before. This is better than Hbox did, cuz Jman 3 stokced hbox several times meaning omg i must be the best jiggs now. I continue beating every character then losing to jiggs, and jiggs continues to dominate every big tourney in the US. I JUST picked her up for fun and I have very little experience with her, but I was still able to do this. That's the only match I 4 stokced him in in a really, really long time with any character. That's STUPID. Mango and Hbox again won this weekend. Don't give me that exceptional player bull****, Jiggs is mad easy to use, by far the easiest character to win with, and current Jiggs don't even do the combos they could be using. My jiggs vs Fox does up throw then SH Uair to regrab, then I do up throw pound rest if they DI away, or up throw rest if they dont DI. If they expect the pound to rest they can just DI toward you, but you can trick their DI by doing up throw to SH fair to regrab, then you get a free down throw rest or down throw fair-edge-guard. You can also do up throw to pound to rest or up throw to pound to uair to rest if you grab them near the edge and know they will DI in even if they di not DI the second up throw. No Jiggs even use Down throw to rest yet, which makes them ****ed if they are at the edge cuz the only way to avoid the rest combo is to DI off (don't forget you can just forward smash instead of rest if you want too).

as for jab reset to rest, you can just F smash instead of rest and trick their DI. Hbox did this to mango in tourney he just did jab to f Smash and Mango thought he was gonna rest and he died at like 60% (but with that DI it woulda been like 20%). Jiggs is easy to use, broken, and underrated as hell. If you can't see this by now then.... then well you're just wrong. Btw don't bring up darc cuz he's a lot worse in singles than mango and hbox but STILL does really well. She literally has every tool to win major tourneys and on counterpicks she's just like auto win. Up throw Uair doesn't work on her if you smash DI up the Uair, and up smash is risky because you can block it then jump and rest (same with any Fox smash attack or dash attack). At 30-40% you can dash attack to jab reset to rest, and at 40-70% you can full jump fair then jab reset to rest (a good time to use this is baiting a shield grab after spacing a fair). The character is dumb.


Oh and for what it's worth, I think a Marth who is really good at spacing can beat Puff. All Jiggs can do is try to space bairs, or like run up and shield and hope he whiffs. And when Marth is offstage his fairs and side-b keep her at bay. Marth is Puff's worst matchup imo, at the top level of play.
 

INSANE CARZY GUY

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I said ice climbers not popo or nana silly of course both if it's just one yeah puff is better. Hey if someone lands in front of ice climber they can grab too. also if they get an up-tilt, they miss a tech, don't di the jab, you can't grab the ice climbers without being punished, yeah ice climbers overall are one of the worse edge gaurdseven more when it's just one, nair rest works sometimes but so does nair grab for ice climbers, go a head and dash attack our sheild, billzard or ice block grab de-synce, if you start to go for one ice climber like knock them away form each other popo could get a grab down-throw chain a little bit and wait for nana, you can't duck under their grabs, longer lasting attacks help stop spot dodgeing.

oh yeah you can't do S*** when your grabed and wobbled you can di for rest and puffs normally pick a huge stage like dreamland 64. when their is one ice climber puff is better but sorry unstoppable wobbleing vs rest doesn't compare. Also it's a S*** lot easier to punish a missed rest than a missed grab that sets up de-synces like you could miss a grab buffer down-B to make a wall.
 

adumbrodeus

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Honestly, neither marth nor puff can reliably approach each other. Puff approaches on the ground (marth's on the ground), she gets ftilted or up-tilted before she's in range.


In the air, DI backwards and fair, she can't really punish.



I dunno, I choose to avoid being an online warrior in this game cause I wanna be good rather then know everything (opposite of brawl where I know everything but suck), but this is the way I generally see the MU.
 

Virusbluemage

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Oh and for what it's worth, I think a Marth who is really good at spacing can beat Puff. All Jiggs can do is try to space bairs, or like run up and shield and hope he whiffs. And when Marth is offstage his fairs and side-b keep her at bay. Marth is Puff's worst matchup imo, at the top level of play.

M2k tried Marth and got beaten pretty badly by Hbox, I personally think he should try him again though. His Marth was probably just rusty against Puff.
 

Divinokage

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mango beat hbox with fox, 2 stocking him numerous times.

i think theres still hope.

and puff is slow as balls. the trick to beat her is to get in, hit her some, get out, rinse repeat.
There is still hope that Jiggs can be beaten? Ya Fox should beat Jiggs the best imo.

Hey hey with reading what M2k said, he should be a good boy and use Ganon! Hey I was able to do it, then.. he is viable vs jiggs lol.

The mindset people need is, no matter who you face.. just do your best and win.. if not then continue to play lol. What if at some point I manage to become so great that no one can touch me? Then everyone is gonna say Ganon is broken? Just saying that logic is a very limiting and should not be used.
 

-ACE-

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Marth is NOT puff's worst matchup at high level of play. A Puff with great spacing can easily play a bait and punish game with marth, as marth is basically forced to aerial/tilt where he thinks puff will be (not where puff is), due to puff's aerial mobility/agility... while puff can constantly semi-approach until she sees an opening. Puff can move in and out as she pleases, more or less.. and let's not act like all she has is bair. Fair is also a great spacing tool, and nair has it's purposes as well (like leading to fsmash/dash attack which sends her opponent offstage - as long as they miss the tech at med/high%). Puff's camping game beats marth's imo as well, as puff's bair actually can send him offstage whereas marth's fair does nothing but add some damage (given that puff has good di) and doesn't kill until she is well over 100%.
 

INSANE CARZY GUY

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I may not know a lot about marth's camping because I simply don't care about his range as mauch as I care about his movement but why don't you fight how you want to fight why not use your amazing movement on the ground so she doesn't know where you will be. just an idea if marth's camping fails use a different kind of camp. I mean if I can land hits vs puff with someone with less range and worse movement why not try useing the movment. Again I'm not amazing as marth or anything just idea.

THat's why jigglypuff and falcon can get pass your range so why not try useing it back.

tell you what if I ever meet you kaostar you can tell me if you think i'm nuts or not.
 

INSANE CARZY GUY

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cool but if you meet me stero type me first ok? I'll say m2 should be higher(which I think he should by one spot) if you say pichu should be higher(which he should)
 

X1-12

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You -ACE-,

Marth is NOT puff's worst matchup at high level of play. A Puff with great spacing can easily play a bait and punish game with marth, as marth is basically forced to aerial/tilt where he thinks puff will be (not where puff is), due to puff's aerial mobility/agility... while puff can constantly semi-approach until she sees an opening. Puff can move in and out as she pleases, more or less.. and let's not act like all she has is bair. Fair is also a great spacing tool, and nair has it's purposes as well (like leading to fsmash/dash attack which sends her opponent offstage - as long as they miss the tech at med/high%). Puff's camping game beats marth's imo as well, as puff's bair actually can send him offstage whereas marth's fair does nothing but add some damage (given that puff has good di) and doesn't kill until she is well over 100%.


need to read this

marth vs jiggs you gotta just be really gay as marth and everytime (s)he gets near you WD away or maybe risk a jab / F-tilt, use basically no F-smashes and just don't let the jiggs get near you, don't jump if you dont have to and constantly bait the jiggs into something, Don't sheildgrab or (s)he'll just move out the way then rest you just WD back -> run forward JC grab or WD grab forward again, from a grab try a f-throw -> WD forward -> F-smash (depending on %) Whatever you do don't try to combo him/her for more than like 2 hits and even then only try 2 hits if you're feeling confident
 

bobson

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He's not specifically banned. And there's no reason to ban him; you're basically just handicapping yourself by using him. Master Hand should be tourney legal.
 

INSANE CARZY GUY

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well if your going to say that there's a chartcer that dies without being knocked off the stage. Master hand could just be counted when he reachs a certain % I still have no idea why people still say kirby>pichu wtf he is better at better edge gaurd a little bit(really his only means a decent kill other than sd) I mean i've seen someone live from kirby's down-smash at like 157% when it wasn't decayed on FD. He isn't worth jack for normal kills but he has somewhat good camping. Also at fastest speed played in a match I would say kirby is slower than bowser useing his stage.

sorry their is nothing decent about kirby other than dieing and recovery.
 

adumbrodeus

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I think Masterhand should be added to the list below Pichu, as he technically is a playable character.
Opinions?
Said it too a while ago, he's playable but totally and completely useless.

master hand can't die, how is this a disadvantage
How's he gonna get a stock off?


Every move he has is slower then reaction time, you just hit him once in end lag for his moves and the master hand play can do whatever they want for 7 minutes, they never getting a stock off a competent player.


Every match against him will be one by percent on time.



Of course if he does get a stock off you, then you've already lost, but if he gets a stock off you... quit life, for people who wd to avoid 24 frame actions perfectly, yea, getting hit once means you should quit life.
 

MarioMariox2

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idk, kirby is kinda tight

TAS pichu is good tho lol
Lol of course, it's tool-assisted.

This may be speculation, but I think KrazyKirbyKid and Isai's Kirby raised Kirby to 2nd worst and not 1st worst?
 

INSANE CARZY GUY

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That's the best reason i've heard of kirby not being the worse in the whole game. but really pichu is better on just movement alone pichu has some of the best movemnt in the game not even counting his up-B. really I play pichu kindof like falcon with a projectile. I tech chase and get chains of upair or nair and try to end it in an up-smash. pichu has a better grab game in about everyway(don't argue about sding because they can live and kirby is 100% death) , pichu isn't just uptilt and di into my combos like kirby, kirby doesn't have the same level of kill power or punishment(again kirby can't chain throw, throws kill kirby, B kills kirby also and kirby's smashes are weaker and have less set-ups).

pichu wins at recovering hands down kirby is gimpable pichu isn't by any means. kirby has better tilts and a little bit better edge gaurd these are facts. also kirby has has more range but lacks the speed needed to approach.
 

StealthyGunnar

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Even though I hate pichu and kirby, Pichu is totally underrated. I believe he should be above kirby. He's got better speed, not a crappy UpB, all around better. All Kirby's got goin for him is kirbycides, and that's ******** as ****.

As for master hand, he should be god tier. He can't even lose one stock! Plus, he's awesome and he's a 'master.' Wouldn't you want to be a master?
 

KirbyKaze

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Even though I hate pichu and kirby, Pichu is totally underrated. I believe he should be above kirby. He's got better speed, not a crappy UpB, all around better. All Kirby's got goin for him is kirbycides, and that's ******** as ****.

As for master hand, he should be god tier. He can't even lose one stock! Plus, he's awesome and he's a 'master.' Wouldn't you want to be a master?
Kirby has the ability to space his own moves against other moves and expect his to win. Pichu can't do that.

Kirby also has a back air and decent tilts. And a Jigglypuff-esque duck. And a grab range. His throws suck, but he's much better at actually getting grabs. He also comes with tech rolls.
 

INSANE CARZY GUY

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falcon dding around to get a knee works better than bowser SHFFLing his fair because bowser is mad slow. LIKE pichu dd around nair and kirby fairing which works better and is harder to punish? if you sheild or cc nair it does nothing unlike kirby's fair because pichu has speed to get around that and kirby is slow and can't just SHFFL something and expect it to work decently when he can't use his movement to help. Kindof like someone nairing in place vs them running nair.

so that extra range loses a lot of usefulness and kirby's bair it's like jigglypuff's he again has horrible air speed and can't hit them and slip away he can only make a wall for them to run into. tilt camping is only so good like vs zedla but to bad they have down-B. pichu can't space his moves but he is still better at useing his movement think kirby wds backwards and down-tilts right? pichu uses his dd, wd, and other tools to avoid the attack and counter attack he is good at that and don't say that isn't useful because jigglypuff does that all the time she is hard to hit for being able to avoid attacks really good that and bair.

kirby's grab suck so did you say something about them he may be able to get them like falco but compared to others falco's grabs are poor even if he has better set-ups and range. just because they are easier doesn't mean jack if they can't do anything like you don't compare falco's grabs to ice climbers grabs.

also pichu has the best N-tech in the game. And kirby's tech is like 1.5x pichu's tech roll.
 
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