Official MBR Tier List

[x After Dawn x]

The people that think Jiggs is top tier and are being serious about it are idiots. Jiggs isn't even close to being top tier. Seriously, just because ONE person can play a character extra well, it does NOT mean they should go up on the tier list, and anybody who thinks so is ignorant. Look at Taj's Mewtwo, it beasts pros (I've seen it 2-stock Mango before). Look at Kage's Ganon, same thing (he's beaten M2K's Marth before). Does this mean Mewtwo is good? No, he's still bottom tier. Does this mean Ganon is top tier? No, he's still middle tier.

There are MANY factors that go into a position on a tier list for a certain character, not just "oh Armada got 2nd at Genesis, Peach must be top tier now!" Sure, we might wake up and realize there is more potential and different methods and techniques in playing a character as a result of this, but there is no way it directly influences such a huge movement on a tier list by itself.

 

[Divinokage]

Ya the matchups don't change that much. It's just the people themselves that need to learn to play the matchup.

 

[-ACE-]

Ya the matchups don't change that much. It's just the people themselves that need to learn to play the matchup.

quoted for truth

 

[Blatt Blvd]

The people that think Jiggs is top tier and are being serious about it are idiots. Jiggs isn't even close to being top tier. Seriously, just because ONE person can play a character extra well, it does NOT mean they should go up on the tier list, and anybody who thinks so is ignorant. Look at Taj's Mewtwo, it beasts pros (I've seen it 2-stock Mango before). Look at Kage's Ganon, same thing (he's beaten M2K's Marth before). Does this mean Mewtwo is good? No, he's still bottom tier. Does this mean Ganon is top tier? No, he's still middle tier.

There are MANY factors that go into a position on a tier list for a certain character, not just "oh Armada got 2nd at Genesis, Peach must be top tier now!" Sure, we might wake up and realize there is more potential and different methods and techniques in playing a character as a result of this, but there is no way it directly influences such a huge movement on a tier list by itself.

more proof canada ***** at smash but are brainless.

there is more than just one jiggs ******(hbox to name one)

and other gannons have beaten M2K.

and also, ICs were in the spot they were in past tier lists soley because of chu, so yes, one player can make a difference on the tier list mr join date 2008.

subject change:

and can we please stop using the word "god tier" in melee please. no character is that much better than any character under them on the old, outdated tier list. Not even fox.

 

[Fletch]

I really don't want to get in the middle of this, but why are you calling out his join date when yours is later?

 

[Blatt Blvd]

just sayin he has no idea what he's talking about, and looking at his join date(probably found smashboards through nintendo power) it further proves my point that everyone who doesnt have anything meaningful to type should just not post.

like these posts i make to get him(and omg kagay please) to stop.

(im not 08)

im entitled to my opinion like him and the rest of canada ha

 

[Strong Badam]

i agree, Blatt, baselessly insulting the entirety of Canada (and their school system in another thread, I mean what the **** is up with that ****?! what's wrong with you?) quite arrogantly will make After Dawn and Kage see your points and, as you so elegantly put it, "stop," (stop sharing their views on a public forum? whatever the **** you're talking about).

using Ice Climbers & Chu as an example is pretty ridiculous, too, as Chu Dat basically invented the Ice Climbers' competitive metagame. Puff and Peach's metagame have been majorly developed in the past (The King, KillaOR, KishPrime, Cort, Wife, Vidjo, and many others from earlier in Melee's history).

mango hasn't truly brought all too much new to the table with his Jigglypuff (granted he DOES do some things that no one else did before, but nothing substantial), he's just an amazing player whose mindgames and ability to read his opponent have made his Puff the best. Armada, on the other hand, has definitely shown new **** in terms of Peach play. I've never seen another Peach focus so much on controlling space and aerial mixups. His edgeguarding is also superb, however there weren't too many things that other players hadn't already done (the bairing IIRC was referred to as the "Vidjo-bair"), but he definitely took nearly everything of Peach's gameplay to a new level (clearly, as no other Peach player placed that highly).

the only person here who "has no idea what they're talking about," here is you, Blatt.

 

[pockyD]

armada made peach's fair look like ganon's fair

 

[x After Dawn x]

more proof canada ***** at smash but are brainless.

there is more than just one jiggs ******(hbox to name one)

and other gannons have beaten M2K.

and also, ICs were in the spot they were in past tier lists soley because of chu, so yes, one player can make a difference on the tier list mr join date 2008.

subject change:

and can we please stop using the word "god tier" in melee please. no character is that much better than any character under them on the old, outdated tier list. Not even fox.

You are totally missing the point, being the stupid troll you are.

Just because an elite collective of few players (when I say few, I mean 1-2 players) plays a character well, that does NOT play an important, direct role in shifting tiers.

Also ICs were middle tier in past tier lists and it was NOT solely because of Chu. Good IC mains (like Chu, Wobbles, and others Im not naming right now) placed well in tournaments, and the ICs happened to be an evolving character with high potential and new discoveries in the old days (such as when wobbling was discovered).

Also this join date isn't accurate to how long I've been playing smash and been involved in the competitive scene, this is just a new username I made a little over a year ago. Go troll somewhere else.

 

[Pi]

You are totally missing the point, being the stupid troll you are.

Just because an elite collective of few players (when I say few, I mean 1-2 players) plays a character well, that does NOT play an important, direct role in shifting tiers.

Also ICs were middle tier in past tier lists and it was NOT solely because of Chu. Good IC mains (like Chu, Wobbles, and others Im not naming right now) placed well in tournaments, and the ICs happened to be an evolving character with high potential and new discoveries in the old days (such as when wobbling was discovered).

Also this join date isn't accurate to how long I've been playing smash and been involved in the competitive scene, this is just a new username I made a little over a year ago. Go troll somewhere else.

Are you even aware of how the tier list is made?
It's tournament data.

The fact that jigglypuff has been placing high and winning tournaments IS GOING TO MOVE HER UP, that's just how it works.

One person can make the difference, because it's just TOURNAMENT DATA

What the **** do you propose justifies a move in the tier list if it isn't winning tournaments?

And it was pretty much Chu who moved the IC's up. And he didn't even win as many tournaments as Mango has, especially not of the same caliber.

FFS, mango just won the biggest melee tournament EVER!
He won Pound 3, and afaik hasn't lost a tournament since he started winning
His fall back character is jiggs, he uses her when he really wants to win
If a new tier list were to be created, jiggs would be higher, there is no doubt

 

[x After Dawn x]

First of all, the tier list is not just based off tournament placings, it's also based off character potential, which has to do with how well the character fares in the evolving metagame, the tools he / she can use, matchups, etc.

Secondly, tournament placings are based off how well that character performs in MULTIPLE tournaments with MULTIPLE players. If 20 top players start winning and getting high placements in dozens of tourneys with one character, this will affect the tier list MUCH more than one person winning one tournament.

And just so you know, the tier list WAS updated to reflect how good Jiggs is in the current metagame. Prior to this tier list, she was considered an average character in middle tier.

 

[Strong Badam]

Are you even aware of how the tier list is made?
It's tournament data.

The fact that jigglypuff has been placing high and winning tournaments IS GOING TO MOVE HER UP, that's just how it works.

One person can make the difference, because it's just TOURNAMENT DATA

which is why the SBR tier lists are ****ing stupid
/thread

after dawn: that's not what the SBR use. that's what any other fighting game uses.

 

[Pi]

First of all, the tier list is not just based off tournament placings, it's also based off character potential, which has to do with how well the character fares in the evolving metagame, the tools he / she can use, matchups, etc.

Secondly, tournament placings are based off how well that character performs in MULTIPLE tournaments with MULTIPLE players. If 20 top players start winning and getting high placements in dozens of tourneys with one character, this will affect the tier list MUCH more than one person winning one tournament.

And just so you know, the tier list WAS updated to reflect how good Jiggs is in the current metagame. Prior to this tier list, she was considered an average character in middle tier.

The last tier list, or this one, I'm not sure, in the opening post, the creator stated that it was MAJORLY a collection of tournament data and placings.

And jiggs has been winning multiple tournaments, hungrybox has been placing consistently high down here in FL for months, and mango has won multiple tournaments, big ones.

You can't ignore the fact that jiggs has been winning tournaments, and you stress multiple like you mean 10+ players need to be winning with jiggs at every single tournament, maybe if we were arguing her for god tier, which we're not

Look, mango, hbox, some others I'm sure, raistlin, darc, look how well they did at genesis, and I'm sure are/have been doing well in their home towns with jiggs, stop ignoring this.


'prior to the tier list' was like 2/3 years ago.
The metagame has since evolved

 

[x After Dawn x]

Jiggs certainly has been placing better in tournaments (which is why she was given such a huge bump in the first place), but if you look at the top tier cast, almost all of them have been placing just as well, if not better in many tournaments. Mango's Jiggs can win pretty much any tournament, but he's also played other characters in most tournaments (like Falco). Also, there are many tournaments that Mango DOESNT go to, in which it's usually the top 4 that end up winning.

I'm not sure why Jiggs was ever tied with Falcon in the first place (she should be placed slightly above him), but if Jigge does move up, she would probably move between Peach and Falcon or at the top of High Tier, passing Peach (though if you want to move Jiggs up just because Mango wins with her, remember that Armada has beasted every top player in Europe and Japan, as well as America's best, and there are also some good Peach mains in the US, all of this which might cause Peach to keep her place just above Jiggs).

P.S. Someone told me that ROUGHLY 70 % of the tier list was based off tournament placings and the remaining 30 % was based off character potential.

 

[Pi]

Jiggs certainly has been placing better in tournaments (which is why she was given such a huge bump in the first place), but if you look at the top tier cast, almost all of them have been placing just as well, if not better in many tournaments. Mango's Jiggs can win pretty much any tournament, but he's also played other characters in most tournaments (like Falco). Also, there are many tournaments that Mango DOESNT go to, in which it's usually the top 4 that end up winning.

I'm not sure why Jiggs was ever tied with Falcon in the first place (she should be placed slightly above him), but if Jigge does move up, she would probably move between Peach and Falcon or at the top of High Tier, passing Peach (though if you want to move Jiggs up just because Mango wins with her, remember that Armada has beasted every top player in Europe and Japan, as well as America's best, and there are also some good Peach mains in the US, all of this which might cause Peach to keep her place just above Jiggs).

P.S. Someone told me that ROUGHLY 70 % of the tier list was based off tournament placings and the remaining 30 % was based off character potential.

That sound alright

It juss seemed to me like you were against any change to the current list, which juss isn't so

Sheik I think can be moved down some, she does have potential but she hasn't been winning tournaments
Fox hasn't been getting much rep lately, falco has been moreso, but it seems every falco player plays fox on the side so hard to say

 

[Fletch]

If this is based purely off of character potential, Fox would need to be far and away better than everyone else, maybe Falco as well.

 

[x After Dawn x]

Well it's not lol, it's mostly tourney placings, with the rest being character potential.

Honestly, if they do ever update the tier list (which they should), Top Tier looks fine right now, in fact it's definitely the most accurate tier in the entire tier list, I'd say.

They just need to bump up Jiggs slightly to be above Falcon, perhaps boost Falcon's numerical grade to match Peach's, and then maybe some minor changes in the other tiers, like moving Doc Mario up, perhaps moving Ganon up as he's been doing better (or so I've heard), and maybe other stuff if needed. I don't think any drastic changes need to be made, the metagame has definitely changed a bit since 2/3 of a year ago, but it hasn't changed THAT much.

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

alright
so
aparently samus can be beating be just fox bairingingn
so
she deserevs bttmg tier k
seriuosly
lucin did it too mea t genis
I am so omg
also mango is soo good
It s friday monring
and ym voice is stil goine
from cheering fro mango
being armada
USA
USA
USA
but samus is bad mmmmmmmmmmmmmk

 

[Vts]

alright
so
aparently samus can be beating be just fox bairingingn
so
she deserevs bttmg tier k
seriuosly
lucin did it too mea t genis
I am so omg
also mango is soo good
It s friday monring
and ym voice is stil goine
from cheering fro mango
being armada
USA
USA
USA
but samus is bad mmmmmmmmmmmmmk

....jack are you drunk posting again?

cus i believe everyone needs to stay off the boards when they are drunk.

and my voice was gone for cheering at armada

 

[Fletch]

and my voice was gone for cheering at armada

If you don't like America, you can geeeeeeet out.

 

[Vts]

sorry for cheering at the underdog lol

everyone knows mango was going to win and they wanted him to do awesome stuff so ppl cheered for him.

o well amazing finals

 

[Teczer0]

I applaud this tier list because Taj's mewtwo is indeed better than Samus.

 

[ROYROYROYROYROY]

Yeah Roy show zelda who's boss :D

 

[Vulcan55]

but samus is bad mmmmmmmmmmmmmk

Doctor Mario understands and offers you his spot on the tier list.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

i thought armadas peach was only good because of PAL differences thats what everyone told me. and they all knew better then me because they where from america (**** yhea) unlike me (ppl literally said that)

i can requote the posts many of them are in this thread BWAHAHHAHAHAA just ask anyone

 

[PINEAPPLE KING]

Zelda shouldn't be as high. bad wd,dash,overall slow,waveshined, doesn't approach(spam her),lacks tricks like shine turn around pichu's up-B etc. She has Down-B but other than that I have heard mindgames. I don't think mindgames count. she has a chain throw vs fast fallers but most people can and they are still *****. bowser can combo better or about equal.

She has range, but so does G&W and they are tied and he can combo,appraoch somewhat,kill well,and he is faster.

prediction and mindgames don't affect the tier tier right? because everyone can. so why? bair and fair are good but why she even that high.

can someone tell me why? thanks in advance

 

[Fletch]

she has a chain throw vs fast fallers but most people and they are still *****. bowser can combo better or about equal.

The reason her chain throw isn't that important is that I think it doesn't work that long and that her grab is absolutely horrible. Ya Zelda is pretty horrible, but so are the other characters around her... and I don't think Bowser combos better than her, although in general he probably hits better.

 

[PINEAPPLE KING]

wtf zedla has down-B and ?

oh sorry I forgot a word.

But at least other bottom tiers have tricks and a semi decent chain throw.

 

[Deleted member]

I will **** you with Zelda really bad.

 

[PINEAPPLE KING]

so does m2 + taj and mango + _____ or shiz + falco.

No I want to see why or how or what. sorry but really other than mindgames and d-B what?

 

[Grunt]

Bowser can't combo.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Yes, but he can Up B and that's all that'll ever matter.

 

[Strong Badam]

I like how very few of us (probably not me, either) who have posted in this topic actually have the knowledge or experience to contribute to a Melee Tier list.

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

This topic isn't for contribution.
It's for discussion.
Discussion requires no prior experience, just a keyboard and an internet connection.

 

[Strong Badam]

i wasn't saying that this topic was for contribution; that's what the backroom is for. just a lot of posts in here seem to be like "this is wrong, character x should go up/down and here's why."

your avatar is really hot, man. O_O

 

[BiN Breezy]

I think link should move up.

 

[NES n00b]

I think Link should be higher on the tier list cause I win with him sometimes. Har.

I also recovered once at 163% with bomb recovery. Pretty **** legit.

 

[Chuz]

So BiN, let me get this straight; you don't believe in the tier list, yet you think Link should be higher on it why? If you don't believe in it then why do you even care... or is my sarcasm/joke detector broken?

 

[x After Dawn x]

I think link should move up; i don't belive in tier list.

You're an idiot.

 

[rhan]

The tier list is straight. Link does deserve a mid tier spot. But be real. He's not that popular. In my opinion, Jiggs deserves to be higher on the high tier due to recent tourney results (Not just Genesis). But again. she's not as popular as the others. Only Jiggly players I can say off the top are Mango and HBox.