Official Metaknight Discussion

[Overswarm]

I feel that we should only ban something if its broken.

Most people don't feel that way. In fact, anyone who has ever banned items or the majority of stages out there doesn't feel that way. Or that bans D3 infinites or the like (pick a different character, it isn't broken).

If you don't put food on low at the very least, you can't say you don't want to ban things unless they're broken.

This thread is back open?

Sweet. Now I have something to do in my boring morning classes again.

Shameless plug:

http://p2w.x10hosting.com/Podcast/P2...Ban_Part_1.mp3

http://p2w.x10hosting.com/Podcast/P2...Ban_Part_2.mp3

This is what put me on the fence as far as banning is concerned. That, and I just sold my Wii.

I enjoy the amount of times someone asks me a question, they answer, and then they say "Well what I was TRYING to say" when I didn't answer in a way that trapped me in the way they expected. Reminds me of Umbreon from the original debate ^_^

 

[Dekar173]

@etecoon- no gkirbs is just really dumb

 

[RDK]

Most people don't feel that way. In fact, anyone who has ever banned items or the majority of stages out there doesn't feel that way. Or that bans D3 infinites or the like (pick a different character, it isn't broken).

If you don't put food on low at the very least, you can't say you don't want to ban things unless they're broken.



I enjoy the amount of times someone asks me a question, they answer, and then they say "Well what I was TRYING to say" when I didn't answer in a way that trapped me in the way they expected. Reminds me of Umbreon from the original debate ^_^

You had a hundred pages of notes and data prepared. The rest of us were just winging it.

What did you expect? :embarrass

 

[Kuraudo]

You had a hundred pages of notes and data prepared. The rest of us were just winging it.

What did you expect? :embarrass

Best of luck to both sides in this debate and however the ban goes down, but if you wanna win, probably not the best of ideas to "wing it"

XD;

 

[Overswarm]

You had a hundred pages of notes and data prepared. The rest of us were just winging it.

What did you expect?

Formidable opponents

 

[adumbrodeus]

This thread is back open?

Sweet. Now I have something to do in my boring morning classes again.

Shameless plug:

http://p2w.x10hosting.com/Podcast/P2W_Podcast_12_To_Ban_Or_Not_To_Ban_Part_1.mp3

http://p2w.x10hosting.com/Podcast/P2W_Podcast_12_To_Ban_Or_Not_To_Ban_Part_2.mp3

This is what put me on the fence as far as banning is concerned. That, and I just sold my Wii.

You betrayed me? I'm hurt! I can't believe this RDK, I thought we were friends!


Lol, but that was an amazing discussion, shows how productive a few hours of discussion can be compared to DAYS of posting.



Also, I asked Hylian, dunno what came of it.

Formidable opponents

I seem to remember pretty much all your arguments getting ***** for the data being not as leading as one would think. Still, you're a good opponent.


Edit: Also, I know I had something I wanted to ask you, I just can't remember what it was.

 

[Overswarm]

I seem to remember pretty much all your arguments getting ***** for the data being not as leading as one would think. Still, you're a good opponent.

Listen to the podcast

 

[Tristan_win]

I think Metaknight should be banned.

 

[swordgard]

I think Metaknight should be banned.

And we should care because?

 

[salaboB]

I seem to remember pretty much all your arguments getting ***** for the data being not as leading as one would think. Still, you're a good opponent.

I seem to remember anti-ban's entire argument (After the thousands of pages of discussions) boiling down to "MK isn't dominant enough to merit banning" and ignoring all possible damage he may do to the competitive community, simply because not enough people play solely as him.

The problem with this stance is it ended up being more of a "LALALALALA HE'S NOT OVERCENTRALIZING" than any position where a conversation could really take place from.

 

[RDK]

Formidable opponents

I was feeling nice so I let you off the hook. I didn't want to embarrass you in front of the entirety of Smashboards.

I'm open for a round 2 if you think it's in order.....

 

[Kuraudo]

I was feeling nice so I let you off the hook. I didn't want to embarrass you in front of the entirety of Smashboards.

I'm open for a round 2 if you think it's in order.....

OSHI-- **** just got skin deep.

MM!? HYPE!?

 

[popsofctown]

I don't see what a temp ban accomplishes. If he's banned, his usage will be zero, when he's not banned we already know his usage is unacceptably high. Ban or no ban.

Yes, of course characters with bad MK matchups but good performance in general will climb the tier list, but those characters aren't the reason MK is a problem. The problem is that you're playing MK or you're gimping yourself.

If you aren't playing MK, you aren't playing to win.

 

[JRob]

Ignore this.

 

[KT Kasrani]

just came in. MK is officially banned.

 

[popsofctown]

just came in. MK is officially banned.

Doesn't even work as a joke. Won't be believed without a red text name.

 

[KT Kasrani]

lmao i got an infraction that fast. lol even saying MK is banned is blasphemy around these parts.

 

[Kuraudo]

LOL really? What about Omni saying, on the anti-ban spectrum, "He won't get banned."

Harmless joke about him getting banned = infraction though?

Wow, Meta Knight really is unhealthy. LOL

 

[RDK]

He's only unhealthy if you choose to eat him. Nobody's forcing him on you.

Do you really want to take away the choices of others simply because you don't want to taste something?

 

[Overswarm]

I do when they shove it down my throat.

 

[MKOwnage]

Well, it would really depend on your TO, and all the players around you. If the majority want MK gone, then the TO will be forced to ban him because it'll affect his turnout and he won't be able to pay venue fees and whatnot. If the majority DON'T want him banned and the TO wants him banned, then it's up to the players to persuade the TO into unbanning MK in his tourneys (like not attending... I would find it very unfair if anti-ban would stop attending tourneys just so pro-ban never gets anything done, that would be incredibly childish and selfish of them).

Well most of the tourneys I attend are anti-ban. I mainly use Luigi though seeing as MK is getting boring for me.

 

[Dekar173]

Listening to the podcast-

Omni- M2K does NOT know how to play against Diddy, it's as simple as that. Wyatt's wins over Havok and other MK mains with Diddy are FAR MORE impressive than him beating M2K with Diddy.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I'm not a brawl player, but i'm very interested in this discussion. I'm listening to the podcast now, and i haven't read the whole thread. Can someone catch me up?

What is the criteria for a character ban?

 

[Demp]

Podcast? Where can I get in on this?

 

[RDK]

Podcast? Where can I get in on this?

Here's a link:

http://p2w.x10hosting.com/Podcast/P2W_Podcast_12_To_Ban_Or_Not_To_Ban_Part_1.mp3

http://p2w.x10hosting.com/Podcast/P2W_Podcast_12_To_Ban_Or_Not_To_Ban_Part_2.mp3

I'm not a brawl player, but i'm very interested in this discussion. I'm listening to the podcast now, and i haven't read the whole thread. Can someone catch me up?

What is the criteria for a character ban?

So far the criteria doesn't exactly account for an MK-like character, so what people are trying to do is come up with a new criteria under which MK can fit.

It's a community project.

I do when they shove it down my throat.

You ordered the entire meal as a package. If you didn't want the MK portion, why eat at all?

 

[Overswarm]

You ordered the entire meal as a package. If you didn't want the MK portion, why eat at all?

The same reason you removed the items and Wario Ware portion.

 

[Matador]

The analogies and corny metaphors are making my eyes bleed...

MD/VA doesn't have many MKs.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

So are there any proposed criteria?

 

[RDK]

So are there any proposed criteria?

Overswarm posted some earlier in the thread I think.

 

[adumbrodeus]

So far the criteria doesn't exactly account for an MK-like character, so what people are trying to do is come up with a new criteria under which MK can fit.

It's a community project.

To be more precise, the criteria doesn't really have numbers, and what we need is concrete items, because terms are too open to interpretation.

Listen to the podcast

As I remember there wasn't much real debate it was more a discussion on how to move the community forward.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Just don't use "numbers" like tournament placings giving certain values and then averaging that up. As said in the podcast "MK is the best character in the game, and the most popular, not necessarily broken"

 

[adumbrodeus]

Just don't use "numbers" like tournament placings giving certain values and then averaging that up. As said in the podcast "MK is the best character in the game, and the most popular, not necessarily broken"

Of course, if you look over this thread I've pointed out the issue with using the those results many times, it measures current centralization, not character power in the metagame.

 

[RDK]

To be more precise, the criteria doesn't really have numbers, and what we need is concrete items, because terms are too open to interpretation..

Numbers are open to interpretation too.

Everything needs a context. That's why at this point we need to decide what is going to be the benchmark for character bans.

 

[ADHD]

And we should care because?

Because he is sheik and he haz super strict needs. DONT U C?

 

[GoldDigger]

You know banning MK would rip the community apart right? Not "bring it together and get more players."

 

[MarKO X]

You know banning MK would rip the community apart right? Not "bring it together and get more players."

this

lol @ this thread getting opened back up... why?

Isnt there a CHARACTER SPECIFIC BOARD for this?

this is still the ultimate post in this entire thread.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Numbers are open to interpretation too.

Everything needs a context. That's why at this point we need to decide what is going to be the benchmark for character bans.

Obviously, that's why we're looking for specific numbers that indicate useful things.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I don't think there is any evidence to show that MK is ban worthy. He is the best character in a game that requires very little physical demand and has low punishments for each mistake, of course he will be the most popular and prosperous in the high level tournament scene. The only time a character deserves to be banned is when it is impossible to beat it, which has already been proven untrue.

OS that view of character counters was a nice pretty picture, but its not the reality of the game. MK doesn't deserve a ban just to make that picture happen.

 

[Flayl]

Guys, please help out testing Z-dropping projectiles against a ledge-camping MK and, for example, Pit.

 

[B!squick]

Briefly flying away from the ledge negates that tactic I would think.