Official Metaknight Discussion

[Red Arremer]

that's why this topic is only good for artificially inflating your post count, trolling, or doing both of those

F***, you uncovered my plan.
But I already was in the BBR when this topic started. :x

in all seriousness I think the ISSUE of meta knight is more corrosive than meta knight himself. this needs to end but it never will, the last poll WAS supposed to be the final decision but neither side will back down because following protocol is for losers. pro ban will ignore any finality of a decision against them and continue the crusade, anti ban will and already has plans to ignore any attempt at banning MK. this entire debate is a joke.

Kudos to you, you realized what I realized when the "final poll" was held. This is something not very many people seem to see in all their mud-wrestling.

 

[Damage Points]

Maybe this game is a joke and people are just now realizing it.

 

[Turbo Ether]

Maybe this game is a joke and people are just now realizing it.

'bout time.

 

[GeneralWoodman]

maybe we're all just good comedians and mk is the chicken crossing the road. It's about time he got to the other side so we can move on and realize hes not funny.

 

[Judo777]

I wanna know how any permanent decisions about absolutely anything concerning brawl can be made only 2 years into the game. The "LAST" poll? Because of course the metagame was fully developed when they made that poll. "we already discussed MK before and we decided that it was the last time we going to talk about the issue." Because we already know what brawl will look like in 3 years and they KNOW that MK will still not be an issue then either......

 

[etecoon]

if things change it's reasonable for it to be brought back up, nothing changed though. after 4 months OS just went "lose for the good of the community? heeeeeeeelll naaaaaaaaaw" and here we are again

 

[Mota]

Here we go again! Turn it up, make some noise.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

if things change it's reasonable for it to be brought back up, nothing changed though. after 4 months OS just went "lose for the good of the community? heeeeeeeelll naaaaaaaaaw" and here we are again

Well, the results got more drastic, and I guess crow showed up? OS must have his reasons. Also, it's funny you mention him losing for the good of the community... he mains MK. :3 And he started maining MK because he couldn't win with ROB.

 

[etecoon]

he started maining MK in a bad attempt at proving that he was broken and hasn't been as successful. and obviously I don't mean in terms of winning games, just that his pride doesn't allow him to get over losing on this issue four times previously. that is why this battle will continue until brawl dies

 

[Judo777]

What do u mean nothing changed? what about the fact that every high level player plays MK at least some now?

 

[etecoon]

that's been true for a long time

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

that's been true for a long time

Not for a long time before this. In fact, when the third poll was over, it looked moderately varied. Now we have Ally going MK, ADHD going MK, and I'm sure there are dozens of others I'm missing.

 

[Kaffei]

Not for a long time before this. In fact, when the third poll was over, it looked moderately varied. Now we have Ally going MK, ADHD going MK, and I'm sure there are dozens of others I'm missing.

Didn't ADHD say he was just kidding about going MK?

 

[SwastikaPyle]

I can't believe there are real, serious people like Thio who think banning MK would actually reduce the viable cast of characters.

It's seriously fascinating.

 

[Roie]

I can't believe there are real, serious people like Thio who think banning MK would actually reduce the viable cast of characters.

It's seriously fascinating.

Yoshi would be even less viable.

 

[Blacknight99923]

but it wouldn't surprise me if he went MK on a counterpick round

 

[Raziek]

Yoshi would be even less viable.

Overall viability, herp derp. Obviously a few characters would go down, like people who get Infinited by D3, but there would be rises in a significant amount of other characters.

 

[SwastikaPyle]

Yoshi would be even less viable.

What an enormous change from the last two games.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

What an enormous change from the last two games.

This is a good post.

 

[Crow!]

Yoshi would be even less viable.

I take offense that this sentiment is still around. The theory that Yoshi didn't get epically ***** by MK went out of style early 2009. On FD, it might be a mere slight advantage for MK if the MK isn't familiar with the matchup. Elsewhere (and let's face it, MK doesn't generally allow FD as it is), the matchup is abysmal.

With MK out of the way, I think Yoshi would have a much easier time. There are still bad matchups for him, but those characters won't always be among the top, blocking passage to good placings.

 

[ph00tbag]

Hey, why isn't Smashville on CP if it's the easiest stage to scrooge on?

Oh wait, it's probably because other than for MK, it's decidedly one of the most neutral stages...

 

[Roie]

Hey, why isn't Smashville on CP if it's the easiest stage to scrooge on?

Oh wait, it's probably because other than for MK, it's decidedly one of the most neutral stages...

Why is FD not on CP?

 

[ph00tbag]

Why is FD not on CP?

What's usually led to a stage being CP is a nebulous topic. Yeah, FD is a campy stage, but no one has any truly dominant camping tactic there that they don't have on any other stage. Furthermore, it's a lack of random elements.

My point is that SV is really the only stage where scrooging is a major issue. Basically, there's currently a one in four chance (per the SBR ruleset) that the MK match-up will be highly dependent on his opponent's ability not to get hit first. That doesn't inspire much confidence.

But incidentally, the only character I can see this being an issue for is Pit, and he doesn't seem like as much of a thread, as far as overall performance goes.

 

[Blacknight99923]

and we can't ban scrooging because??????????

 

[ph00tbag]

and we can't ban scrooging because??????????

What, you have an adequate means of banning it?

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Why is FD not on CP?

This is a good question. It's incredibly (ridiculously!) good for Diddy, ICs, Falco, and DDD. Like, near best stage good. You will almost always ban it against one of those characters. This is hardly neutrals material.

 

[Kaffei]

and we can't ban scrooging because??????????

Someone told me it's hard to ban it because people can simply say "I was trying to recover" or "I'm looking for a better position"...

I think you can prevent scrooging by have an air time limit but IDK if that would work.

 

[Ripple]

This is a good question. It's incredibly (ridiculously!) good for Diddy, ICs, Falco, and DDD. Like, near best stage good. You will almost always ban it against one of those characters. This is hardly neutrals material.

just because most of the high tier can preform well on it doesn't mean you should ban it or make it a CP.

it bothers me that some people think this way. when taken to the extreme it becomes "if (insert top tier(s) here) is really good on a neutral then it should be a CP. and if they are really good on a CP then it should be banned

 

[Nefarious B]

Deciding whether a stage is neutral or CP or ban shouldn't really be about how good individual characters do on them (and I think SBR has done a pretty good job on avoiding doing that so far). When looking at a stage, does it have:
-random elements that significantly effect gameplay for long periods of time
-possibility of circle camping
-walk offs
-walls
-extremely small/large blast zones

Basically when you're playing are you going to be more focused on the stage than the opponent? The more of the above elements a stage has, the more likely they are to be CP or ban. If you look at it that way the stage list makes good sense in general.

 

[John12346]

Here's an idea; just ban MK's Dair after he's used his first midair jump.

With all these rules to restrict MK, I figured we'd need one to cover aircamping lol

 

[giuocob]

Someone told me it's hard to ban it because people can simply say "I was trying to recover" or "I'm looking for a better position"...

I think you can prevent scrooging by have an air time limit but IDK if that would work.

You really think that once we start throwing in bull**** rules like an airtime limit, it isn't better to just ban the one character they're all geared toward?

 

[Kaffei]

You really think that once we start throwing in bull**** rules like an airtime limit, it isn't better to just ban the one character they're all geared toward?

OBVIOUSLY, but this debate has been going on since forever. Do you really think they're gonna ban now?

 

[Flayl]

This is a good question. It's incredibly (ridiculously!) good for Diddy, ICs, Falco, and DDD. Like, near best stage good. You will almost always ban it against one of those characters. This is hardly neutrals material.

Yet it's definitely MK's worst stage out of the 5 starters.

You want to buff MK?

 

[AvaricePanda]

I don't know how scrooging is unbeatable, and this is an honest "I-really-don't-know" question. I haven't seen enough videos, explanations, or theorycraft about it to see why you can't hit MK during it.

Someone please explain why MK is untouchable when he scrooges on SV.

 

[etecoon]

Not for a long time before this. In fact, when the third poll was over, it looked moderately varied. Now we have Ally going MK, ADHD going MK, and I'm sure there are dozens of others I'm missing.

ally had an MK back then too, just didn't use it as much/in tournament, and he doesn't really use it in tournament now either, he experimented with it briefly. I've yet to see anything suggest that ADHD is doing anything other than trolling...

 

[dj asakura]

I really feel like the fact that we have had to make specific rules solely for MK in order to *attempt* to limit his effectiveness and they still haven't decreased his use should probably mean more than it does.

 

[ph00tbag]

I don't know how scrooging is unbeatable, and this is an honest "I-really-don't-know" question. I haven't seen enough videos, explanations, or theorycraft about it to see why you can't hit MK during it.

Someone please explain why MK is untouchable when he scrooges on SV.

You could watch M2K vs. Meep, I guess. M2K doesn't even do it the best it could be done in that video. I've seen enough scrooging to wonder if there's a character in the game with an answer to the tactic.

It's not so much that MK can't be hit, it's the fact that it in no way limits MK's options, but no other character has enough options to limit MK while he's doing it.

 

[Twin_Scimitar]

ally had an MK back then too, just didn't use it as much/in tournament, and he doesn't really use it in tournament now either, he experimented with it briefly. I've yet to see anything suggest that ADHD is doing anything other than trolling...

Uhhhh...

Original tourney thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=271075

Singles: 45 people entered

$15 Entry fee

1. Ally ($371.25) - /

Groat Results:

Singles:
1: Ally ($222.00) (Snake, MK, Wario, D3)

COCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKk. MK is my destiny. But eff Frigate LOL I died to it at 30% last game in WFS because of getting stuck under there BUT it happened to fatal too in grand finals sometime LOL too funny. Ggs =P

Seems like he's using MK a lot actually. I was at the GROAT tourney and he used MK to good results against both Atomsk and Fatal in order to win the tournament, though he also used snake of course. I believe these are his two most recent tourneys, but I might have missed one.

 

[Tien2500]

I don't know how scrooging is unbeatable, and this is an honest "I-really-don't-know" question. I haven't seen enough videos, explanations, or theorycraft about it to see why you can't hit MK during it.

Someone please explain why MK is untouchable when he scrooges on SV.

When MK scrooges your choices are to take a time out loss or approach him. And for pretty much the entire cast, going after MK in the air, offstage, is going to be bad. Particularly if MK has a stock lead. Off the top of my head I can't really think of any characters who can deal well with scrooging (and don't get beaten by some other tactic).

 

[DMG]

Scrooging is basically drawn out planking. Planking is hard enough to beat, scrooging is on roughly the same or on a slightly lower level of strength. On Smashville in particular, because of the platform it allows MK to perform this safer. What most people fail to realize is that the tactic is still viable on stages besides Smashville. You can do this on Frigate, FD, Battle Field, Rainbow Cruise, etc.