Official PAL Tier List (Melee)

[NHJ]

sheik \./ 1st !

 

[Andromeda]

What the...?! I didn't know there was a PAL tierlist on smashboards. Know it by heart, though.

 

[pidgey14]

ooo PAL tier list. Didn't know there was such a thing. thought tier list was for everywhere. Though it looks real good.

 

[SheikSmasher]

Get in there Sheik Rules!

 

[soap]

so i just read through this whole thread, i like when everyone was arguing if wales is a country, but anyways ya, i can actually completely see sheik being number 1, that has been the central argument.

my personal list for NTSC is Fox, Sheik, Marth, Falco. And with Pal sheik being able to kill fox easier due to lightness, and fox losing killing power that could be enough to bump sheik to number 1. the falco matchup seems like it has no differences to NTSC.

No down throw combos on marth and peach seems rough but ive seen pal sheiks use dash attack, tech chase regrab, fully charged needles so there are sufficient followups to complement tilt combos. Although those seem like much more even matchups than ntsc, where sheik has clockwork combos+kills. speaking of dash attack if yu can reach them with dash attack , can u reach them with a boost grab to regrab?

chain grabs only affect the ditto+low tiers that sheik ***** anyway. i main NTSC sheik and man i wish i didnt have to do chaingrabbing dittos for 2.5 years, seems alot more versatile and fun.

the main thing to me seems to be the fox thing, without a reliable fox counter, sheik seems free to pwn.

 

[$hYne]

Actually im not sure if Sheik is #1 in PAL because Fox or others have been nerfed, but due to the fact that Amsah ***** the **** out of everyone here (and everybody coming here, have a look at Epita Smash Arena 2).

 

[Tero.]

Fox for #1

*subscribe*

 

[VA]

No way, if you've played NTSC metagame you instantly realise why fox is #1. Playing PAL is like wtf he's lame by comparison.

 

[Retroking2000]

Actually im not sure if Sheik is #1 in PAL because Fox or others have been nerfed, but due to the fact that Amsah ***** the **** out of everyone here (and everybody coming here, have a look at Epita Smash Arena 2).

yes , she is .


sheik has be nerfed but only to the extent of her actually K'Oing . just her dthrow and upair , she hasnt been nerfed in anyway what would make others KOher .

 

[VA]

and uair might lose KO power but it combos now instead :S not a bad trade off.

 

[chris H]

all i can say is sheik is gay

 

[Retroking2000]

after playing against a snake i dont really care about playing against sheiks anymore . its actually comforted me because i know he(she) is not all that compared to snake /



edit : she

 

[VA]

lol, you've never played a good metaknight. woooo I'm not going to get into this debate. Sheik #1, she's not overpowered, you just have to be careful, her combos are gay to be fair. tilt combos are just *facepalm*

 

[Retroking2000]

i have played a good MK he is german , he ***** me because of the UPB KOs -__- .

i know sheiks not overpowered its just that fact that her tilts are very versatile basically those moves can setup for anything ,

also dthrow techchasing to tilts is super lame ,

the best way to actually gay a sheik off is to get her airbone , not facing you because of fair clash ouch , if you behind her bair is deadly combo breaker , above you because her dair is extremely lagg , and you can see if a mile off ,

chris H : sheik is not gay at all , anyone can be played gay'' or have that gayness which is usually a move that can be spammed with no second thoughts

which is gerenally a gay move

marth has fsmash CC it is a ultimate killer

 

[VA]

In NTSC marth has fthrow dair spike. It makes you go >_>

 

[Retroking2000]

that wouldnt be a gay move .

to me , because you cant pull it off all the time also you do have second thoughts of actually spiking being a marth player i had second thoughts ,

maybe a SD could mess you up badly against a sheik thats bad xD .

but as for CC fsmash that is gaurenteed tipper kill which is broken or gay '' as you call it

and you wouldnt have second thoughts of that move at all .

 

[VA]

I'm pretty sure dying from 0% to two moves is gay.

 

[Retroking2000]

but that takes skill to consider that .

take sheiks tilt setups that considers no skill at all , but is considered gay same like snake

but a fthrow to spike is gay i admit but takes practice because i dont even think i could pull something

like off .

but fsmash CC takes no skill at all but its hits with the largest hitbox he has so i would say thats more gay than spiking

 

[Retroking2000]

i would say a gay move is a move that has high benefits and takes no skill to do at all

 

[Swiss Falco]

guys... your list is not accurate enough... and imo partly wrong

what do you think about mine?

God:
Marth, Sheik, Fox

Top:
Falco, Peach

High:
Captain Falcon, Ice Climbers
Samus, Jigglypuff

Middle:
Dr. Mario
Mario, Ganondorf

Low:
Link, Young Link
Luigi, Pikachu, Zelda
Donkey Kong, Roy

Boddom:
Yoshi, Mr. Game & Watch
Ness, Bowser
Kirby, Pichu, Mewtwo

 

[VA]

Pretty sure Falco is as good as marth/sheik/fox. Peach just isn't the same although armada would probably argue different. When you look at EU tournament results it's mostly Fox/Marth/Sheik/Falco and then Armada's Peach. Case in point: Armada is amazing, peach not so much.

 

[xXx-NoobKing-xXx]

Ganon should be higher >________<

 

[VA]

no adam, he has no fair, and dair doesn't kill either.

 

[J03]

Peach is not as good as falcon.
Samus and IC's should be lower (IC's possibly banned because there horrendous).
Mario and Luigi should swap places too.
Pikachu is not low tier at all, its just that no one plays the poor guy.
Roy should drop a few places, hes only there because so many peeps play spacies
Even with a horrendous recovery Ness is still better then Zelda.
Kirby is the worst thing in the game, yes Pichu and Mewtwo are bad, but in the right hands they can be pretty mean, Kirby simply has nout.

Top

Fox, Marth, Falco, Sheik, Falcon
Peach, Jiggs, Samus,

Middle.

Doc, IC's, Ganon, Luigi, Mario
Pikachu, Link, Yoshi, DK

Low.

Roy, Young Link, G&W, Ness, Zelda
Bowser, Pichu, Mewtwo, Kirby

Also i disagree with low tier tourneys. Imo Top tier characters are the only ones that should ever win a tourney, Low tier tourneys should be between non top tier characters.

PS, IC's should be banned xD

 

[VA]

Peach is way better than Falcon. It's almost impossible to hurt peach when she recovers, whereas falcon is one of the easiest characters to gimp when recovering. His good combo came is no match for her dsmash/ridiculous projectiles/**** recovery/good edge guard game. Falcon is really not in the same league as any of those characters in top tier.

 

[Mr P]

Peach is way better than Falcon. It's almost impossible to hurt peach when she recovers, whereas falcon is one of the easiest characters to gimp when recovering. His good combo came is no match for her dsmash/ridiculous projectiles/**** recovery/good edge guard game. Falcon is really not in the same league as any of those characters in top tier.

I kind of disagree with you. I think the top 4 fox, sheik, marth and falco are way better than the rest but that peach and falcon are about the same overall. I think jiggs is probably up there too but i would put her slightly below Peach and falcon who i cant really decide between which is better overall.

I keep kinda changing my mind between the top aswell but i still think fox is the best character overall even though hes much weaker in pal. It's really really tight.

Fox
Sheik
Marth
Falco

Peach/Falcon
Jiggs
IC
Samus

Probably something like that imo.

 

[VA]

Well saying Peach is way better than Falcon is wrong. I think she's better, but not by a huge margin.

Peach and Falcon are pretty much the same in PAL and NTSC and the difference in tier ranking remains. Tournament placings usually have Peach just above Falcon in America. It happens with players like Vidjo and Cort placing slightly higher than SilentSpectre and Darkrain on a regular basis.

I'm not sure if any of the other UK smashers have played NTSC metagame? But imo sheik is almost exactly the same if not better in PAL, her alterations are less nerfs than literal alterations. However I haven't played any gay Sheiks who chain grab like a ***** so I may not have experienced how truly gay she can be. Fox on the other hand is seriously **** in PAL by comparison to NTSC lol.

My tier list:

**** tier

- Sheik

The rest o' them

- Fox/Marth/Falco

- Peach

- Falcon

- Jiggz

- Samus

IC's are not on my tier list because I've never played any good ones lol.

 

[Retroking2000]

^ i think falco should be above marth

 

[grayfox]

I'm pretty sure Samus is top tier. I use her and i've beaten loads of foxes, sheiks, marths and falcos, the list must be faulty.

 

[VA]

^ i think falco should be above marth

I can't rank those 3 I think they are about even.

 

[J03]

i agree with P that Peach and Falcon are very, very close.
There Match Up's against the top tier are all very similar, and both work 2 ways. e.g. Peach can destroy Fox but Fox can destroy Peach. So imo it comes down to Peach vs Falcon.

At any sort of higher level play Falcon has a huge advantage on the stage. He also intercepts Peach's recovery well. From any throw, Nair, uair or dair Falcon can lead it too a knee giving him a very strong sense of control. Peach's redeeming factors are basically chain throwing and edgeplay. I accept that Peach can combo Falcon but the difficulty of her comboes and the ease that Falcon can escape compared to Falcons means the advantage is still to Falcon.

Peach cant hound Falcon very well due to her speed so she normally takes a reserve approach, which doesnt do her any favours. On the other hand if Falcon is too agressive then Peach can punish him to the bone, But thats Player skill.

In Peach vs Falcon The stages are quite even. They offer equal advantage. Imo Falcon beats Peach on average.

 

[VA]

i agree with P that Peach and Falcon are very, very close.
There Match Up's against the top tier are all very similar, and both work 2 ways. e.g. Peach can destroy Fox but Fox can destroy Peach. So imo it comes down to Peach vs Falcon.

At any sort of higher level play Falcon has a huge advantage on the stage. He also intercepts Peach's recovery well. From any throw, Nair, uair or dair Falcon can lead it too a knee giving him a very strong sense of control. Peach's redeeming factors are basically chain throwing and edgeplay. I accept that Peach can combo Falcon but the difficulty of her comboes and the ease that Falcon can escape compared to Falcons means the advantage is still to Falcon.

Peach cant hound Falcon very well due to her speed so she normally takes a reserve approach, which doesnt do her any favours. On the other hand if Falcon is too agressive then Peach can punish him to the bone, But thats Player skill.

In Peach vs Falcon The stages are quite even. They offer equal advantage. Imo Falcon beats Peach on average.

I disagree.

It doesn't come down to that. Falcon can have a hard time against all the top 4. Peach edges out Falco, goes even with fox, loses to marth and in PAL has a fairly decent match against Sheik.

Falcon can get gimped by all four. Also his auto combos seem cheap and gay but they actually require some kind of skill from the player as you need to keep a really cool head when you have your opponent in a grab that could give you the match.

Peach has projectiles against Falcon, really great projectiles that really mix it up. She can throw them and float along with them creating a really annoying barrier for Falcon to get through. It's never as simple as jumping up and ****** peach out of her float, if you've tried this against any accomplished Peach player you'd know.

Peach has so much against floaties and when Falcon is off the ledge against her he's pretty much dead.

 

[Mr P]

i agree with P that Peach and Falcon are very, very close.
There Match Up's against the top tier are all very similar, and both work 2 ways. e.g. Peach can destroy Fox but Fox can destroy Peach. So imo it comes down to Peach vs Falcon.

At any sort of higher level play Falcon has a huge advantage on the stage. He also intercepts Peach's recovery well. From any throw, Nair, uair or dair Falcon can lead it too a knee giving him a very strong sense of control. Peach's redeeming factors are basically chain throwing and edgeplay. I accept that Peach can combo Falcon but the difficulty of her comboes and the ease that Falcon can escape compared to Falcons means the advantage is still to Falcon.

Peach cant hound Falcon very well due to her speed so she normally takes a reserve approach, which doesnt do her any favours. On the other hand if Falcon is too agressive then Peach can punish him to the bone, But thats Player skill.

In Peach vs Falcon The stages are quite even. They offer equal advantage. Imo Falcon beats Peach on average.

Well... Imo falcon does slightly worse vs the top tiers but much better vs low tiers. and as for the matchup peach falcon, i agree i think falcon has a marginal advantage

Peach-Fox 4.5-5.5
Peach-Sheik 5-5
Peach-Marth 3.5-6.5
Peach-Falco 5.5-4.5

Falcon-Fox 4.5-5.5
Falcon-Sheik 3-7
Falcon-Marth 5-5
Falcon-Falco 4.5-5.5

Peach-Falcon 4.5-5.5

Peach suffers because she has quite a few difficult matches in low tier like Link,Y.link,Pikachu,Ganon Luigi whereas Falcon can **** most of those characters. Of course the top tier matchups hold more weight so it's hard to call between them but they are pretty similar overall.

 

[J03]

haha 3 way split of opinion, im loving it, if the match up are to be trusted as fact then.

Falcon 4.5, 3, 5, 4.5, 5.5 = 17 + 5.5 = 22.5

Peach 4.5, 5, 3.5, 5.5, 4.5 = 18.5 + 4.5 = 23

purdy close imo. if we take into consideration the top 10 then i believe Falcon overtakes peach but not by much.

If we take into consideration the entire list then Falcon becomes a clear victor, but as P has stated that holds less weight. Imo only tournament winnable characters should be taken into consideration.

 

[VA]

If you take out Peach vs Falcon and only include the top 4 she is 1.5 ahead. Also Euans numerical calculation of the match ups is really not the be all and end all. I have some issue with the fox vs peach one in particular.

Anywayz, the point is, she's marginally better than Falcon and deserves her place on the tier.

 

[J03]

It depends how many characters you take into account, and i know what you mean with the match up chart. i think its outdated. I personally dont think the top tier should only be 5 characters, more like 6 or 8.

On a more relevant note i simply refuse to accept peach is better then Falcon, because a smart Falcon does much better then a smart Peach.

 

[VA]

lol. not in tournaments he doesn't. I know for a fact Cort, Vidjo, Armada etc place slightly above the likes of Darkrain, Silentspectre and other top Falcons. Can you please name me a Falcon that consistently places higher than Peach?

 

[grayfox]

MALVA AND CAPTAIN ZEPPO although Peach is better obv, not that it matters lol, the closeness of the tiers is so tight at the top it really has no indication of anything. A good player who has mastered any of the top characters is looking nice, people put too much weight into the relevance of the tiers.

 

[VA]

MALVA AND CAPTAIN ZEPPO although Peach is better obv, not that it matters lol, the closeness of the tiers is so tight at the top it really has no indication of anything. A good player who has mastered any of the top characters is looking nice, people put too much weight into the relevance of the tiers.

let me rephrase my question: "name a falcon that consistently places higher than peach at peak meta game (the area of play where tiers are derived from)".

Falcon hasn't been winning tournaments since Isai. Peach doesn't really win that much these days but Cort places really high and Vidjo usually places above Silentspectre. What I'm saying is, mastering any of the top 4 out here can grant you tournament wins, it's usually anomalies that get to finals with jiggz or something like mang0. Most of the good players use Marth/Fox/Falco or some combination of. Anyway this probably makes no sense, I have no idea what I'm typing.

 

[grayfox]

What I said in caps was for the banter, the rest of my post was the point.