$hYne
Smash Ace
Pichu has a red bandana !1
*fg
*fg
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Official PAL Tier List (Melee)
- Thread starter Marc
- Start date
ForlornSwiper
Smash Rookie
Wow good job, Congratulations on spending your time to make this list. It's nice to see Falco in there *Points to Signature =)*
Jeffz0r
Smash Champion
Ehm, everyone is in there...
Swiss Falco
Smash Apprentice
IMO-PAL-Tierlist:
1.
Sheik
Fox
Marth
Falco
Peach
2.
Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers
Samus
Jigglypuff
Dr. Mario
Ganondorf
Mario
Luigi
Link
3.
Yoshi
Roy
Donkey Kong
Pikachu
Young Link
Mr. Game & Watch
4.
Zelda
Ness
Bowser
Kirby
Pichu
Mewtwo
_________________________________________________________________________________________
Falco:
Yeah! Falco is not the second. The reason: One fault at higher % and you're dead. Because 1. the range of firebird is so fu*king short, sometimes I can't belive that he didn't catch the ledge >_> 2. his recovery is too predictable (firebird and phantasm are both long, straight attacks), mostly you have only 2 options. firebird: nearly the wall for a tech or sweetspotting. phantasm: grab the ledge (directely or maybe with short phantasm) or fly over the ledge. If you're opponent is not completely silly, he will hit you for sure, one way, the expected one, to hit would be deadly and the other way pretty painful.
Then, his firebird has a incredibly lagtime. So every fox can fall down and shine him away, every kind of mario can kick his face with a bair...
The range of his firebird is so short, that sometime it's impossible to recover after a hit of any char. Actually an Up-B of the Lowtier char Link kills him with only ONE hit (not any combo). Nearly every other char survives such attacks...
Then, Falco is an imba-combo-machine. But he can have problems vs. Lowtier chars like Luigi, because Luigi's just too flotie. Fox, Marth, Shiek and Peach don't have this problem. (At least it's a much bigger problem of Falco.) The same problem vs. any pink *****s -.-
IMO-Result: Falco is (mostly) imba on stage, but offstage he's absolutely useless. So he is not better than Marth and Fox.
Link&Luigi:
In this case I don't have rly good arguments. I think Link and Luigi always win the LT-tournaments although the player doesn't need to have as much skill as chars with more skill, but they get worse results. Furthermore Luigi has no bad matchups vs. higher chars (like falco) But in this case we can struggle
1.
Sheik
Fox
Marth
Falco
Peach
2.
Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers
Samus
Jigglypuff
Dr. Mario
Ganondorf
Mario
Luigi
Link
3.
Yoshi
Roy
Donkey Kong
Pikachu
Young Link
Mr. Game & Watch
4.
Zelda
Ness
Bowser
Kirby
Pichu
Mewtwo
_________________________________________________________________________________________
Falco:
Yeah! Falco is not the second. The reason: One fault at higher % and you're dead. Because 1. the range of firebird is so fu*king short, sometimes I can't belive that he didn't catch the ledge >_> 2. his recovery is too predictable (firebird and phantasm are both long, straight attacks), mostly you have only 2 options. firebird: nearly the wall for a tech or sweetspotting. phantasm: grab the ledge (directely or maybe with short phantasm) or fly over the ledge. If you're opponent is not completely silly, he will hit you for sure, one way, the expected one, to hit would be deadly and the other way pretty painful.
Then, his firebird has a incredibly lagtime. So every fox can fall down and shine him away, every kind of mario can kick his face with a bair...
The range of his firebird is so short, that sometime it's impossible to recover after a hit of any char. Actually an Up-B of the Lowtier char Link kills him with only ONE hit (not any combo). Nearly every other char survives such attacks...
Then, Falco is an imba-combo-machine. But he can have problems vs. Lowtier chars like Luigi, because Luigi's just too flotie. Fox, Marth, Shiek and Peach don't have this problem. (At least it's a much bigger problem of Falco.) The same problem vs. any pink *****s -.-
IMO-Result: Falco is (mostly) imba on stage, but offstage he's absolutely useless. So he is not better than Marth and Fox.
Link&Luigi:
In this case I don't have rly good arguments. I think Link and Luigi always win the LT-tournaments although the player doesn't need to have as much skill as chars with more skill, but they get worse results. Furthermore Luigi has no bad matchups vs. higher chars (like falco) But in this case we can struggle
In america it seems fox, sheik and marth dominate... is it so different here? The most important difference I can think of is the lack of marths spike.
I'd expect falco to be lower, and I respect sheiks place as it is.
Also I don't think yoshi should be so high. Ah well, nothing to change here =)
I'd expect falco to be lower, and I respect sheiks place as it is.
Also I don't think yoshi should be so high. Ah well, nothing to change here =)
Swiss Falco
Smash Apprentice
did you post that in relation to my post or to mark's tierlist?
guys! what do you think about my imo-pal-tierlist?
guys! what do you think about my imo-pal-tierlist?
VA
Smash Hero
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't tiers based on tournamnet standings as well? Not just potential in the characters. Are there many high placing IC's in Europe? Because any in the UK don't even make it through pools.
$hYne
Smash Ace
Ur right, son.
VA
Smash Hero
Then will someone explain why the IC's are higher than Samus? As far as I know there are no good IC's in the Europe. Also, Link usually places high in the UK tournaments, Jiggz aswell. It's stupid having Fox high in the tiers (for the UK at least) when no on can even use him.
It's a mixture of potential and tournament performance, which are getting more and more intertwined as we are getting closer to the peak of the metagame. Not much will change from here on out, European smash has been around for almost 5 years.
Also, try looking beyond the UK community.
Also, try looking beyond the UK community.
FoulPlay
Smash Lord
He did, he stated that the Ice Climbers are not commonly used within EUROPE.
Also I bet if one of the other European countries' players decided to main Link, and placed high you'd actually say something different... [I feel like I'm being a **** now personally...]
I still think Link and Luigi are both under-rated, :/
As far as I'm aware, NTSC has no difference in the Luigi from PAL, so why is he still low tier when people like Ka-Master are going around piping everyone. [Based on NTSC and PAL Tiers]
I doubt things should change though, Marc is right. It's been 5 years, but some characters have just been overlooked and just been branded almost horrible without consideration...
Also I bet if one of the other European countries' players decided to main Link, and placed high you'd actually say something different... [I feel like I'm being a **** now personally...]
I still think Link and Luigi are both under-rated, :/
As far as I'm aware, NTSC has no difference in the Luigi from PAL, so why is he still low tier when people like Ka-Master are going around piping everyone. [Based on NTSC and PAL Tiers]
I doubt things should change though, Marc is right. It's been 5 years, but some characters have just been overlooked and just been branded almost horrible without consideration...
VA
Smash Hero
I understand that the UK community is in a different stage of the meta-game to other places in Europe, just saying the tier list is almost irrelevant to the UK scene. When has a fox won a tournament?
Jeffz0r
Smash Champion
Niam got 17th I think at RoX4 with Link...
FoulPlay
Smash Lord
Ah I didn't know that
.Come to think of it, I've not heard of a Fox winning a European tournament since I've stated playing smash competitively.
Fuzzyness
The Reality!
yeah but its not all about winning tournies, its about the frames and advantages too.
Tournies just show how well some people can use the character, its like saying m2 is top tier because taj can own with him, which obviously isnt true but he has a good knowledge how to use a less advantaged character ^_^
Tournies just show how well some people can use the character, its like saying m2 is top tier because taj can own with him, which obviously isnt true but he has a good knowledge how to use a less advantaged character ^_^
That doesn't take away from their potential. Ice Climbers are the same in NTSC and PAL, and Chu Dat has definitely proven their worth.
Also please keep in mind that this was a vote, not everyone had the same opinion. There weren't many close calls though. In the end it will be hard to find people who 100% agree with this tier list, or any tier list for that matter, but it's still pretty accurate.
VA
Smash Hero
It's not a case of me disagreeing with the tier list; more as I don't think it fits the meta game of the UK at all. I'm not 100% of Europe but I have a feeling it's similar there aswell. I understand potential of the characters like the IC's has been proven, but in America (as bandit keith would say) there are tons of IC's who can put into practice techniques like wobbling. We just don't have that here, yes people can wobble but I've never had it done to me in a touranment.
Anyways, I'm content leaving the tierlist as it is. Just thought I'd make the point.
FoulPlay
Smash Lord
I agree with Robby to be honest, I was only merely standing up for him before, but I still felt like Link was underated, but then again he is horrendously slow. So it's understandable.
juganthestar
Smash Journeyman
No IC makes it though pools cause there isnt any, no ones bothered to get IC to competitive level so they just quit and main something lie...shiek or marth or etc
And i dont go through pools with 2 samus's and a shiek xD
And i dont go through pools with 2 samus's and a shiek xD
VA
Smash Hero
it was a peach, and exactly. no one has the skill to persevere and take IC's high in the meta-game, hence their spot in the tiers is pointless and irrelevant.
juganthestar
Smash Journeyman
Time to wobble x_x jk jk
Isnt the tierlist based on everyone being at the same skill lv, then showing who would most likely win?
Also its not skill people need, its knowledge of IC, cause clearly everyone can SHFFL and Wavedash, i cant wavedash properly and short hops are hard but im better then lets say charles climbers cause i know what does what. Its not, no one has the skill, its no one likes homework
Isnt the tierlist based on everyone being at the same skill lv, then showing who would most likely win?
Also its not skill people need, its knowledge of IC, cause clearly everyone can SHFFL and Wavedash, i cant wavedash properly and short hops are hard but im better then lets say charles climbers cause i know what does what. Its not, no one has the skill, its no one likes homework
VA
Smash Hero
Tiers are also based on how well the characters are performing in the meta-game. A tier list is constantly changing and there is no point in having one that is out of line with the meta-game. IC's require a lot of technical work but the reading is no different to any other character. I spend time watching and researching what to do against who and what with Samus. It's easy to find out what to do, just putting into practice is hard.
juganthestar
Smash Journeyman
deleted lol
Sheik being #1 is definitely due to PAL's metagame, as is Fox being #3 (instead of 1 or 2). Moving along, many high tier and lower tier characters aren't used competitively here, or at least not on a large scale. For those characters, we have to look at other scenes and use some common sense. Not even the US has a ****load of competitive Kirby players, but we all agree Kirby is pretty bad. A tier list requires a placing for every character, even if they're not used that much, or at all.
VA
Smash Hero
It's fine, the tier should remain as it is. I think it's probably just about right. Anywayz, no amount of me discussing/whining will change anything.
VA
Smash Hero
look, I could continue arguing but there is no point as nothing I do or say will make the tiers change. So why bother? Personally I think using the american scene as a basis for putting the IC's high in the tiers is pointless, they haven't broken into the PAL meta-game so I just don't see the point.
This is the last I'll say on it though, it's pretty futile me mentioning it anyways...
This is the last I'll say on it though, it's pretty futile me mentioning it anyways...
Retroking2000
Smash Master
if you want the tires to change .. dominate tournaments with your character
Jeffz0r
Smash Champion
If you want tires to change, buy new ones.
DarkRenji
Smash Journeyman
Where is Nana on this list? She deserves her own tier.
_SSnakeKen
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2007
- Messages
- 33
LOL nana has no potential or very little her reactions therefore potential is productive through popo so she would be the lowest in the tier
Retroking2000
Smash Master
awesome thread
Exalador
Smash Lord
gahahah too good ^^
jr.meta-knight
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2008
- Messages
- 4
Kirby should be 1st or 2nd
xXx-NoobKing-xXx
Smash Hero
Seriously you guys... Sheik isn't top tier... Fox ***** everything, GG.
DarkRenji
Smash Journeyman
Yeah... -_-'
milkieee
Smash Journeyman
Oh yes, I forgot, Kirby ain't floaty, cruisorweihgt, lame, weak and has the strongest and quickest finishers 
ivootjes(nr18)
Smash Lord
Last big PAL tournament
ESA2 (>200 players):
1 Amsah (sheik)
2 Captain Jack (sheik)
3 Armada (peach)
4 Masashi (fox)
5 Adam (sheik, marth)
5 Calle W (falco)
Fox ***** everything? GG
milkieee
Smash Journeyman
You could say, that Masashi is not a PAL-Player at all ! =D
(Maybe someone doesn't know^^)
(Maybe someone doesn't know^^)