OFFICIAL Sonic rFAQ! New to Sonic? Have a quick question? Ask it here!

[r3d d09]

has anyone done the bubble hit boxes for sonic? i just did a quick check and i didn't see anything, did i skip over something?

 

[Kupo Rose]

Yup, you skipped this. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=260691

 

[r3d d09]

thank you very much. Oh, and i will try and force __X__ to post some helpful stuff for you guys when he gets back in town.

 

[Browny]

So I herd X is pro @ tech skill, mastering the SLOW combo, turning it into a veritable infinite, at least according to AiB lol.

need vids :O

 

[Tesh]

Which characters fall faster than sonic's spring? I was trying to find that old character statistics thread and see if someone could point on where on the list.

Basically I'm asking which characters would fall into an aerial spring. Does anyone know?

Edit1: Also, is it possible to chain VSDJ with nair or uair? I cannot ever get it to work cept with fair, despite uair being the same first frame hit with a bigger hitbox.

 

[Anonymous Brawler]

I really really really wanted to use sonic, but I fail using him.

I've readed all guides and all kind of stuff, but I just can't use him well. I can't combo, kill or rack up damage.
The only kills I get are with

Spoiler

hedgehogs

edgehogs.
Tips on using him?
Like what moves should I use to get damage or save for kill.

EDIT: Why everyone is talking about Steak?

 

[Kinzer]

1. Sonic isn't a character you can pick up and **** with. You can have years of practice and you'll be trying to find out how to play some matchups. If you're not doing well now, that's understandable.

2. For tips, just be patient.

3. I'd save FSmash and DSmash for killing. If times get desperate and an opponent starts living past 150% (this will be very common), Bair, Uair, and in the extreme cases, U-Throw will kill. Fair too, but eh... Everything else up until those points can be damage-racking moves. If it hits, it hits, if it doesn't find something else that does.

4. Steak is just an inside joke, if you want me to put it simple.

 

[Anonymous Brawler]

Thanks. And is there any special that cancels all (or most )mommentum? 'Cause when he uses spin dash it moves him forward very fast.

 

[da K.I.D.]

both down b and side b cancel momentum.

down b cancels momentum slightly better, but side bs hop keeps you in a better position relative to the stage to recover.

 

[Espy Rose]

SideB and DownB both cancel momentum completely, then propel you forward. SideB, however, pulls you backward a bit before the release, so be wary of doing it near blast zones when trying to recover from intense knock back.

Best method to recover after a hard hit:
1. FF fair
2. downB

Ninja'd.

 

[chaoechidna]

Down B cancels momentum. Fast Fall forward Air, then do Down B and it will send sonic forward and cancel momentum. Down B is called spin charge.

 

[Anonymous Brawler]

Fair is the fastest aerial that sonic have? I thought it was bair

 

[Chis]

Bair comes out in 13 frames, Fair and Uair come out at 6.

 

[da K.I.D.]

I was told that the amount of time it takes to get a hitboxs out has no bearing on how good it is for momentum canceling. and that its more dependant on how fast the aerial is overall, which to be honest makes more sense to me.

just that most aerials have both of those qualitys anyway so it doesnt matter too much

 

[Anonymous Brawler]

Bair comes out in 13 frames, Fair and Uair come out at 6.

But it ends on what frame? If fair and uair end on the same I'll use uair. It's easier for me.

 

[Kupo Rose]

But it ends on what frame?

37

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=233106

 

[Tenki]

But it ends on what frame? If fair and uair end on the same I'll use uair. It's easier for me.

F-air ends faster in the sense that you can double jump earlier.
However U-air is faster in the sense that you can have a lagless landing and continue moving earlier.

SideB and DownB both cancel momentum completely, then propel you forward. SideB, however, pulls you backward a bit before the release, so be wary of doing it near blast zones when trying to recover from intense knock back.

Best method to recover after a hard hit:
1. FF fair
2. downB

Ninja'd.

- DownB's charge doesn't cancel momentum, but the release (for both) replaces momentum.
- Also, if you're doing a move out of hitstun, I thought it was found that moves that initially edit horizontal momentum (ex: Zelda's Neutral B, HA charge up, Sonic's Side-B) actually give you an extra push in the direction you were flying.

 

[Anonymous Brawler]

Sorry, double posted on accident.

 

[Anonymous Brawler]

- DownB's charge doesn't cancel momentum, but the release (for both) replaces momentum.
- Also, if you're doing a move out of hitstun, I thought it was found that moves that initially edit horizontal momentum (ex: Zelda's Neutral B, HA charge up, Sonic's Side-B) actually give you an extra push in the direction you were flying.

Yeah, but there are some exception. G&W's down special, DK's up special and Yoshi's side special. (I don't know if sonic down special cancels too, but it probably do 'cause everyone is saying it.
EDIT: I also don't know if you were talking about this, but I posted it anyway.

 

[Tenki]

Yeah, but there are some exception. G&W's down special, DK's up special and Yoshi's side special. (I don't know if sonic down special cancels too, but it probably do 'cause everyone is saying it.
EDIT: I also don't know if you were talking about this, but I posted it anyway.

Ah, I meant to mention that I wasn't counting those momentum brakes.

If you jump and start Sonic's down-B, you still move in whatever direction you were already moving (and even influence it like a normal jump and float in a different direction). Releasing completely overrides your velocity based on extra factors (in Sonic's case, the amount of charge), which is probably why it doesn't get that weird 'momentum boost' issue that some other moves have.

Both side-B and down-B's release replace momentum altogether (in the good way), but like I said previously, side-B's charge, Homing Attack, and I think even Spring all have the 'bump' issue, so it's better to use down-B.

The safety of doing this is questionable, but IMO it's also easier/quicker to spinshot out of down-B (left/right on C-stick during aerial charge).

--------
If you don't know what I'm talking about by 'momentum boost', it's kinda like Zelda's "Love Jump", where they double jump and use neutral B out of hitstun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8djTa_wHqtE

Almost all attacks like this get an upwards push if you use them out of hitstun as well as a push in whatever horizontal movement they were going, but the effect here is exaggerated because of the double jump.

@Terios vvv
lolya i thought the same thing XD

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

I like that a related video is If you were gay by Avenue Q.


Oh Zeldas.....

 

[da K.I.D.]

charging side b negates all horizontal momentum except for the small backwards movement of the move itself

 

[Tenki]

charging side b negates all horizontal momentum except for the small backwards movement of the move itself

normally, yeah.

what I'm a little iffy on is whether or not it gets that 'bump' in movement if you do it out of hitstun/after a hit (confirmation on the effect and/or for Sonic's side-B would be nice)

Either way, the difference between their startup is pretty small, so it only really matters if you get smashed at some high %.

:;

 

[infomon]

If you're suffering knockback momentum, then the charging state of sonic's side-B will give him a small boost away from the stage while you use it. Down-B doesn't do it. The boost can kill you; I'm not sure whether or not it's always safer (horizontally) to jump instead of side-B. But I find myself using side-B a lot, but that's perhaps just a bad habit. Down-B is always superior if your midair jump is available, anyway. It even helps vertically (only noticeably matters on Jungle Japes).

 

[Chis]

The boost will kill you;

Fixed.

It's honestly a lot safer just to FF fair to DownB lol

 

[B.A.M.]

yeah that boost it gives you out of hitstun is a killer. On a side-note, side-b goes through MK FF Fair and GW aerials. we can also VSDJ or spinshot away let alone shield if need be. Why dont Sonics abuse the side-b invincibility frames?

just curious. i see too many telegraphed moves that could be punished with our side-b simply ran away from or shielded without punishment

 

[infomon]

I can never get the side-B invincy frames to be useful at all
I mean like, there just aren't enough of them; I try and get hit by stuff

maybe I should learn exactly which frames are invincy....

 

[B.A.M.]

well i can go thru G&W and MK aerials as well as falco's lasers and diddy's naners fairly consistently. Once you learn the timing. it prevents retaliation, and checks aggressive opponents as well as opponents trying to space you ie. marth. every sonic should learn them, theyre are a enough frames for it to be quite viable. ill post some demonstrative vids.

 

[XinShot]

whats the chain grab on ness?
is it just a regrab after the release?

 

[Kupo Rose]

I don't know how to answer ya sorry, but I can show you a vid that DJBrowny made. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2a72OVjUWaI

 

[~TBS~]

its a grab release. Grab>pummel>then regrab. I think its kinda difficult to do because it has to be frame perfect. I just do a dtilt since its guranteed.

 

[da K.I.D.]

stop taking short cuts speed, if you want to be the best you have to do things that are hard technical adn that other cant.

step your game up

 

[Browny]

its easy.

apparently there are 2 frames to buffer anything out of a grab release and my video shows a 3 frame window to regrab so that like a minimum of 3 frames, add 2 since ness cant do anything before then and youve got around 5 frames to work with. its not that hard to consistantly time that, just watch the animation.

 

[Chis]

Can they force an air release if they break hold while you're pummelling?

 

[Browny]

No...

The only way a character can force an air release (the one being pummeled) is if they hit jump and release while they are no longer in hitstun and the next pummel animation isnt already on its way. Sonic has none of these 'dead' pummeling frames so he can always force a ground release against everyone. This is good however against bowser and some other characters who like to force ground releases since to get an air release from them, just mash the jump buttons and if you happen to escape during the 'dead' frames of thier pummels you can force an air release.

 

[BSP]

Will the invincibility frames from side b break through MK's nado? Actually, what does Sonic have to break the nado? I know he has fsmash, but it's kinda impractical.

 

[chaoechidna]

Bair near the top of the nado will hit mk. So you gotta jump, and maybe ff the bair so it hits near the upper region (upper 1/4) of the nado. Doesn't have to be the very top, just the upper region of it. Still a little impractical, but hey, take what you can get with that freakin tornado.

 

[da K.I.D.]

first question. no

second: f smash, up smash, bair, fair, dair, up air, nair, spring, ASC, and homing attack, all have varying (i.e. very low) degrees of effectiveness.

 

[pikapi02]

What's a good air combo for Sonic.

 

[Kupo Rose]

What's a good air combo for Sonic.

ASC > Fair/Uair

Double Fair on big characters (low %'s)

Uair > Uair if you wanna count those too.

SDR > HA

More but my mind just went blank.