[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[flyinfilipino]

I was definitely surprised by the amount of people I played in Brawl who didn't know where Meta Knight came from. I'm not saying that these characters from lesser-known series can't get in. By all means, let them. But there has to be more mainstream characters, otherwise, I just don't feel like they alone warrant a new game. Take note of the end of my last post.

 

[Roihu]

If the game is to easy,it has no challange,can be a cake walk and you might not get involved in it because you wouldnt focus on it enough.

You really should play a Kirby game.

 

[flyinfilipino]

You really should play a Kirby game.

Kirby games are fun, despite being a little easy. Must be the pokey music. I thought Super Star was kinda hard, back in the day.

 

[MarthTrinity]

^If you're trying to get all the treasures in the Great Cave Offensive, Kirby Super Star could be downright cruel at times.

 

[flyinfilipino]

^If you're trying to get all the treasures in the Great Cave Offensive, Kirby Super Star could be downright cruel at times.

Is that what it was called? Last time I played KSS was when I was like 10 (yay for remakes!). I remember trying to get a bunch of little treasures and it was freaking hard.

*un-de-rails topic*

 

[ChronoBound]

It's thinking that all of these minor Nintendo characters need to be represented in order to progress the series that shows the stagnation of Smash.

I agree with that sentiment. However, I don't feel the main characters to unrepresented series (as in more than one game) qualify as minor characters. Custom Robo has had five games to date, and in Japan, Custom Robo V2 is considered among the best games to be released for the Nintendo 64. Stafy has also had five games, and is quite popular in Japan (though the latest installment sold less than 100K copies). Punch-Out is an iconic classic Nintendo series, that had four installments, and Punch-Out for the NES is among the most popular games for that console. Famicom/Advance Wars has had 12 installments to date and was the first series created by Intelligent Systems. Paper Mario is one of Nintendo's most popular RPG series. Both Golden Sun games have sold more than a million copies and still has an ardent fanbase despite having gone on hiatus.

Also, each of the characters that I suggested for the veteran series aren't minor. Ridley is one of Nintendo's most iconic villains, as well as K. Rool. Black Shadow has basically elevated himself as the main villain of the F-Zero series and would be the perfect inheritor to Ganondorf's Melee/Brawl moveset, and if Mother and Star Fox can have more than one character, so can F-Zero. Mewtwo and Roy are popular characters from Melee. Bowser Jr. has basically become more important than Bowser in two of three latest released Mario platformers (with the only one with him playing a side role in being Galaxy).

However, I do agree that the well is running dry for iconic Nintendo characters, and if all the characters that I mentioned in this post get in Smash 4, perhaps iconic third-party characters that have had a lot of history on Nintendo consoles should be the lifeblood for Smash 5.

 

[Kiyosuki]

I think bringing in more third party characters is inevitable myself. Nintendo purists may scoff at the idea and argue against it until doomsday, but fact is that we're comparing the prospects of characters like Mega Man and Simon Belmont being in this game, to increasingly obscure characters. Snake and Sonic opened up a can of worms that can't be closed again.

It's not that there's no more Nintendo-centric characters to use (though most of the big ones really are there already, or the big series' are rather) or dig out of total obscurity, it's just that new option is you know...there now, and the series after this game if it does continue...has to go somewhere. And when you consider Nintendo's increasingly neutral stance in the whole video game industry as well...it's not an unreasonable prediction either I think.

 

[flyinfilipino]

However, I do agree that the well is running dry for iconic Nintendo characters, and if all the characters that I mentioned in this post get in Smash 4, perhaps iconic third-party characters that have had a lot of history on Nintendo consoles should be the lifeblood for Smash 5.

No, not for Smash 5. If it's going to happen, it will be for the next game. As Kiyosuki said above me, the series has to go somewhere new, and the gates are already open.

P.S. - Captain Falcon's series hasn't really grown much in Smash since 64. In fact, most of his popularity pretty much comes from Smash anyway. Black Shadow...I don't really see happening. He might steal the spotlight.

Mainstream popularity is what the newcomers need.

 

[ChronoBound]

No, not for Smash 5. If it's going to happen, it will be for the next game. As Kiyosuki said above me, the series has to go somewhere new, and the gates are already open.

P.S. - Captain Falcon's series hasn't really grown much in Smash since 64. In fact, most of his popularity pretty much comes from Smash anyway. Black Shadow...I don't really see happening. He might steal the spotlight.

Neither has Star Fox.

There are still characters that can be used. These series deserve a chance in the spotlight just as much as the other series do. You may not feel that way, but lots of people do.

I agree people are getting carried away with adding minor characters for Smash Bros., however, there are still quite a few series that Nintendo has that deserve a playable character.

Like I said earlier, once these series have been added, then more of a focus can be placed on guests.

Adding a lot of new Nintendo series is major step up from previous Smash series. Brawl only added two new active Nintendo series with playable characters (Wario and Pikmin). The focus primarily in Brawl was to give series outside the Big 3 (Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon) more characters, whereas in Melee it was primarily to give the Big 3 more playable characters (only three new series were placed in Melee, the lowest amount of the entire series).

 

[Pieman0920]

Black Shadow in the games has never been the main villain. Not really even in X, since that really wasn't story heavy, and certainly not in GX. You could argue that he was important in the anime and anime related games, but the Smash series doesn't take those things into account.

If you want a new F-Zero character, pick someone like Goroh. He's much more well known, has been there since the begining, actually could have his own moves, and was even an AT. Why wish for someone that you know would have to be a clone?

 

[teen-robot]

Master Chief

Plain and IDIOT

fixed,
i don't get hy someone actually wants him in:\or even thinks it IS a possibility >>
not nintendo game,no relations with nintendo at all,never been on a nintendo console
no guns in smash,and besides,masterchief sux

 

[Ilex]

The thing about F-Zero characters is that they aren't even really characters, their cars are. You could erase Black Shadow completely from the games and no one would notice because all that matters is his vehicle. F-Zero characters are just faces to go with the cars and aren't at all relevant to the game.

 

[ChronoBound]

Black Shadow in the games has never been the main villain. Not really even in X, since that really wasn't story heavy, and certainly not in GX. You could argue that he was important in the anime and anime related games, but the Smash series doesn't take those things into account.

If you want a new F-Zero character, pick someone like Goroh. He's much more well known, has been there since the begining, actually could have his own moves, and was even an AT. Why wish for someone that you know would have to be a clone?

Black Shadow is now more popular with the F-Zero fanbase than Goroh. The Japanese also wanted to see Black Shadow more than Goroh (they thought Black Shadow was a shoe-in for Brawl like we did with Ridley).

Also, the Pokemon anime has a definite influence upon which characters get in Smash Bros. (Pikachu, Jigglypuff, and Lucario got in through their popularity in the anime or an anime movie), why can't it be the same for F-Zero?

Also, if you played GX you would know that Goroh is now portrayed as a joke, and a lot of the other racers don't take him seriously (not even Falcon).

Also, two of the three Game Boy Advance F-Zero games were based off the anime.

Also, I think a lot of people would have more respect for Black Shadow if they actually watched the F-Zero anime. Black Shadow was two steps ahead of the protagonists up until the very end of the series.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Neither has Star Fox.

There are still characters that can be used. These series deserve a chance in the spotlight just as much as the other series do. You may not feel that way, but lots of people do.

I agree people are getting carried away with adding minor characters for Smash Bros., however, there are still quite a few series that Nintendo has that deserve a playable character.

Like I said earlier, once these series have been added, then more of a focus can be placed on guests.

Adding a lot of new Nintendo series is major step up from previous Smash series. Brawl only added two new active Nintendo series with playable characters (Wario and Pikmin). The focus primarily in Brawl was to give series outside the Big 3 (Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon) more characters, whereas in Melee it was primarily to give the Big 3 more playable characters (only three new series were placed in Melee, the lowest amount of the entire series).

Neither has Star Fox what? One semi-clone in each game so far is pretty good.

Also, didn't you say a while back that it's thinking that a bunch of people on some forums thinking that any character from any series deserves to get in that would lead to the downfall of Smash? That's a little contradictory in itself, but it's not the adding of the less mainstream characters alone that bothers me.

EDIT - Regarding Pokemon: certain ones are definitely promoted by Game Freak outside of the anime. Pikachu and Jigglypuff have been there since the beginning, so you can't use your argument against them (the anime had a pretty big hand in making the entire franchise popular in the first place). Lucario is definitely being promoted as a standout Pokemon, even in the games.

 

[ChronoBound]

Neither has Star Fox what? One semi-clone in each game so far is pretty good.

Also, didn't you say a while back that it's thinking that a bunch of people on some forums thinking that any character from any series deserves to get in that would lead to the downfall of Smash? That's a little contradictory in itself, but it's not the adding of the less mainstream characters alone that bothers me.

Mother, F-Zero, Star Fox, Game & Watch are not mainstream series.

Smash Bros. is about Nintendo history, not a popularity contest.

Also, I am talking about Star Fox outside of Smash Bros.

Edit: It seems you backpedal no matter how many convincing arguments I put against you. Jigglypuff would NOT have been in had it not been for the anime. Pikachu would NOT have been popular had it not been for the manga/anime. Lucario became POPULAR through the anime.

 

[Ilex]

Black Shadow is now more popular with the F-Zero fanbase than Goroh. The Japanese also wanted to see Black Shadow more than Goroh (they thought Black Shadow was a shoe-in for Brawl like we did with Ridley).

Also, the Pokemon anime has a definite influence upon which characters get in Smash Bros. (Pikachu, Jigglypuff, and Lucario got in through their popularity in the anime or an anime movie), why can't it be the same for F-Zero?

Also, if you played GX you would know that Goroh is now portrayed as a joke, and a lot of the other racers don't take him seriously (not even Falcon).

Also, two of the three Game Boy Advance F-Zero games were based off the anime.

The only memorable part of that anime is the scene where CF Falcon Pawnches Black Shadow into oblivion, and I don't that that helped his popularity.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Mother, F-Zero, Star Fox, Game & Watch are not mainstream series.

Smash Bros. is about Nintendo history, not a popularity contest.

Also, I am talking about Star Fox outside of Smash Bros.

I think Star Fox is mainstream. 64 was a big game on the N64 and made the franchise pretty iconic. People usually just disregard every game after it (BECUZ OF KRYSTAL, LAWL). We weren't talking about Star Fox outside of Smash anyway.

Smash Bros. is both.

 

[indianunit]

fixed,
i don't get hy someone actually wants him in:\or even thinks it IS a possibility >>
not nintendo game,no relations with nintendo at all,never been on a nintendo console
no guns in smash,and besides,masterchief sux

Well you're plain and idiot!!!!!

Jk but ya I know that Nintendo would never do that but if Microsoft and Nintendo did work together..... HOLY ****!!!!

Master Chief doesn't suck, I think he rocks!!!!!!

 

[ChronoBound]

The only memorable part of that anime is the scene where CF Falcon Pawnches Black Shadow into oblivion, and I don't that that helped his popularity.

You obviously have not been to a Japanese Smash forum. Black Shadow is the Ridley of Japan. Black Shadow is also voiced by a popular and well-known voice actor in Japan, which helped make him even more popular.

 

[Ilex]

You obviously have not been to a Japanese Smash forum. Black Shadow is the Ridley of Japan.

I thought you said this isn't a popularity contest, like, 5 minutes ago?

 

[ChronoBound]

I thought you said this isn't a popularity contest, like, 5 minutes ago?

Popularity is the icing on the cake. He is also important in his series, he is Falcon's arch-nemesis. Black Shadow wants nothing more than for Falcon to become a big, red smear on the race track in front of millions of his fans.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Edit: It seems you backpedal no matter how many convincing arguments I put against you. Jigglypuff would NOT have been in had it not been for the anime. Pikachu would NOT have been popular had it not been for the manga/anime. Lucario became POPULAR through the anime.

The entire franchise of Pokemon is the only one with a big anime attached to it. It's part of the franchise whether we like it or not. Who would've represented Pokemon for Smash in the first game if we just used the games? Maybe Pokemon Trainer. But Pikachu's popularity has exceeded the anime anyway and bled into the games. He's in every regional Pokedex. Jigglypuff was important in the anime? They're mascots.

Lucario was one of the first 4th-gen Pokemon revealed and is already only a one-off.

 

[Kiyosuki]

Well I think it's gonna happen no matter what. Mother and Fire Emblem may not have been well known in the western world, although Earthbound had a very dedicated cult following, but they were huge series' in Japan even before their Smash Brothers appearance. Now we're getting into series' that are going to be obscure no matter what side of the coast you're on.

They could dig deeper into each respective series that's already there now yes, but that's not going to draw as much attention as the idea of Mega Man or something along those lines. Even Sakurai himself has said that it's going to be tough to go beyond Brawl, so I think further stepping into third party territory is just bound to happen no matter what.

 

[BKupa666]

Popularity is the icing on the cake. He is also important in his series, he is Falcon's arch-nemesis. Black Shadow wants nothing more than for Falcon to become a big, red smear on the race track in front of millions of his fans.

Yes, popularity is the icing on the cake; Sakurai states that popularity and that character's potential to be original are most important. However, if you look at the pattern in series, that is Protagonist-Sidekick - Villain - Second Sidekick, Sakurai might not add Black Shadow to the roster (he did this to Ridley, although IMO he should not omit popular characters because of this).

 

[Pieman0920]

Black Shadow is now more popular with the F-Zero fanbase than Goroh. The Japanese also wanted to see Black Shadow more than Goroh (they thought Black Shadow was a shoe-in for Brawl like we did with Ridley).

I really dislike this Japanese card, sicne nearly all the time, the person who says it has no proof. From everything I've seen, Black Shadow does not have any particular popularity in Japan, and nothing I've ever read has indicated otherwise. If he really had any popularity, why was he the one who got only a trophy/sticker and nothing else.

Also, the Pokemon anime has a definite influence upon which characters get in Smash Bros. (Pikachu, Jigglypuff, and Lucario got in through their popularity in the anime or an anime movie), why can't it be the same for F-Zero?

Because its clear that F-Zero's anime wasn't considered. Between Melee and Brawl, two different storylines for F-Zero came up. The GX one and the anime one. Brawl went with the games though, and used GX.

Also, if you played GX you would know that Goroh is now portrayed as a joke, and a lot of the other racers don't take him seriously (not even Falcon).

That really doesn't matter. Before even the first chapter, Black Shadow was beaten up and choked by Deathborne, who wasn't even the final boss. Also, Goroh wasn't protrayed as a joke in the anime, but you seem to ignore that for your argument, eh?

And you'll still activly wishing for a character who could only be a clone.

 

[ChronoBound]

If you don't believe Jigglypuff became popular through the anime then you are simply opposing me for the sake of opposing me. Most Pokemon and Smash fans agree that is how she became popular (through all the crazy antics she did in the anime).

 

[flyinfilipino]

If you don't believe Jigglypuff became popular through the anime then you are simply opposing me for the sake of opposing me. Most Pokemon and Smash fans agree that is how she became popular (through all the crazy antics she did in the anime).

I'm not really denying that. I'm pretty sure Jigglypuff was popular in Japan before her anime debut though, from what I've heard.

EDIT: After all, it is a cute little thing, and Japanese folks love that :D

 

[Pieman0920]

Jigglypuff's popularity at the time, and Black Shadow's alleged yet invisible popularity are worlds apart though. <_<

 

[ChronoBound]

Jigglypuff's popularity at the time, and Black Shadow's alleged yet invisible popularity are worlds apart though. <_<

I would show you some proof, however, 2ch purges their threads after they exceed 1000 posts. However, I will try to find what I can dish up.

However, I can tell you that there are definitely more Western F-Zero fans that would rather see Black Shadow than Samurai Goroh.

 

[Pieman0920]

Black Shadow had more people on his side for Brawl mostly because Goroh was pretty much the first AT shown, and thus got knocked out for the spot. =/

 

[ChronoBound]

Black Shadow had more people on his side for Brawl mostly because Goroh was pretty much the first AT shown, and thus got knocked out for the spot. =/

I am talking about the present.

 

[Pieman0920]

Where though? Most people who include him in their lists aren't even F-Zero fans, and are just doing it because that's what they did pre-Brawl. <_<

 

[flyinfilipino]

Yeah, I don't even know what Black Shadow looks like.

 

[Knyaguy]

 

[flyinfilipino]

Ah, thank you. Maybe they should've put him in the Melee opening instead of Goroh, and made him into an AT, instead of Goroh.

 

[MasterWarlord]

I myself have never touched F-Zero, but I still see it as far more deserving of a second character then most other series. Black Shadow has the popularity with the japanese, which is the only thing that truly matters relating to popularity. If you want to know why so many people include him on their rosters over Goroh, such as myself, it's usually because they want to see Ganondorf with his own moveset. F-Zero has to get a second rep eventually, seeing as Mother got one solely due to it's cult following and veteran status, F-Zero's turn is next. If we actually get another mainstream F-Zero game any time soon, that will help significantly.

 

[SmashBrother2008]

If you've ever played F-Zero GX you would know that Black shadow got bumped down to secondary villian by Deathborn. So for SSB4, maybe not black shadow, but deathborn. It all depends on what they do with F-Zero 4.

 

[smashbot226]

Ah, thank you. Maybe they should've put him in the Melee opening instead of Goroh, and made him into an AT, instead of Goroh.

Black Shadow would run around the stage, and dash into people, killing them in two blows. He'll do this for ten seconds before disappearing.

And if Captain Falcon is on the stage, THIS happens:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFtw7qW7Vcw

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

Sorry it's from a few pages back (but then again, most of the last few pages were off-topic). Spire III, I'm totally with you here. Brawl pretty much filled in the rest of the blanks in Nintendo's All-Star roster, and the characters that people are wanting a few months after Brawl's release are just becoming way too obscure to warrant a new game based on just Nintendo. Sakurai took a step in the right direction with 3rd parties, I feel. Brawl could be that last game that focuses solely on Nintendo characters duking it out with just a few guests. Taking the series further, into everyone's favorite Nintendo characters + loved characters from other companies would be an even better progression for Smash.

The biggest problem I have with new recent characters is, well, I don't like most of them. Krystal should make it, as much as I hate to admit, and I am more than certain they would not make her a Fox clone (Have we all lost THAT much faith in Sakurai?). That's just for the Nintendo side, at least. I was excited to see Snake in the trailer, easily my one my most memorable moments in this generation of gaming. More 3rd parties have not been, and hopefully will never be, a bad thing.

I hate to say it (because Krystal is one of them), but a wave of obscure newcomers and representatives just to 'balance' franchise representation probably does not warrant a new game.

Who says that there would be a new game for series once they are introduced in Smash? We don't have any new Ice Climber games or even another Game & Watch gallery, and even with all the superfluous accessories Nintendo is making today to sell with the Wii, I don;t see R.O.B. coming back. I hope to god that Kid Icarus game doesn't get made . What exactly warrants "Balance," while I'm here?

Sephiroth is not even the best villain of the PS1 Final Fantasies (Kuja beats him) let alone the entire series (Kefka takes the cake as one of the most sadistic villains). All Sephy has going for him is his design and hailing from FFVII. I would go as far to say that Sephiroth is a poor villain.

NOOO! kefka is just evil so they culd put a evil guy in da game no backstory sephiroth has backstory and hes awesoome how wuld u feel if u found out your life were a lie wit his mooother? kefka lame seph BADASSSSSS!!!

Sephiroth was voiced by Lance Bass, former *NSYNC member for his first English voiceover. If that isn't badass, I don't know what is.

 

[ChronoTrigga]

Kefka>Sephiroth

Kefka actually DID destroy the world. Take it. *****es.