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[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

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Spire

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Nintendo has yet to print money like they did in the NES' Glory Days, which is when they literally had no competition.

However, you're mistaken if you think they at one point did care about something other than money. Nintendo, just like every company, has quite the sordid past. They've done really stupid, outright bad things for the sake of money, and they still do.

I don't want to start an argument about the whole "Casual-Hardcore" thing in this thread (or anywhere else), but that's simply a flawed statement.

Also, @ JPW: Lol, Australia.
Of course they've always cared about money, but it is now more relevant to us core gamers, than it ever was before. Money is why R.O.B. was created, so that Nintendo could rake in American green. However, it is not wrong to say that Nintendo obviously focused so much more on their individual game series back in the day. If you're not subscribed to Nintendo Power, their 20th anniversary volume did not feature any Nintendo characters, or anything special on the cover - it featured MADWORLD.

That just goes to show that Nintendo really doesn't care about the sake and continuity of their own creations. There's nothing iconic about Nintendo there. I can't say for certain whether it was Nintendo's own doing in the decision of the cover, but if it was, then they obviously care only about the advertisement of new games. If it wasn't, and was merely the doing of the editors of Nintendo Power, then I've got two words: YOU SUCK. Nintendo Power is full of cheap-laughs, Pirates vs. Ninjas references, and Chuck Norris jokes, and I'd really like to chew their magazine up, and **** it out on their CEO's desk.

Why am I subscribed? Because I like information, and I'd gladly pay the $12.95 yearly or whatever for that information. Unfortunately, that info is laced with **** material.

[Sorry about the doublepost]
 

Kiyosuki

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 23, 2008
Messages
367
Sonic's a video game icon. His Japanese tegaki board is one of the most active out there and there's a number of fansites dedicated to the franchise too. I don't think I need to get into his popularity in the english speaking world either. I don't see what there is to dispute about that.
 

Chief Mendez

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If you're not subscribed to Nintendo Power, their 20th anniversary volume did not feature any Nintendo characters, or anything special on the cover - it featured MADWORLD.
NP isn't owned or operated by Ninty anymore, so...

Also, as for things being "worse" nowadays, I'd point to the NES chip scheme, the actual existence of the N64, censorship, and content control, all of which negatively affected gamers.

Things are more obvious, I'd say, but not necessarily worse.

Also I can't wait to play Madworld. It looks absolutely amazing, and it's got Inaba behind it, who hasn't made a game since freaking God Hand.
 

Spire

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NP isn't owned or operated by Ninty anymore, so...

Also, as for things being "worse" nowadays, I'd point to the NES chip scheme, the actual existence of the N64, censorship, and content control, all of which negatively affected gamers.

Things are more obvious, I'd say, but not necessarily worse.

Also I can't wait to play Madworld. It looks absolutely amazing, and it's got Inaba behind it, who hasn't made a game since freaking God Hand.
I wasn't dissing Madworld in any way, just pointing out that they put it on the cover of Nintendo Power's 20th anniversary volume. That really got to me. Anyways, I'm slightly looking forward to it. The art direction is very interesting, but I'm not big on the extreme goregames. Always seems a little too forced in my opinion, but I'll definitely give the game a shot.
 

Chief Mendez

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The art direction is very interesting, but I'm not big on the extreme goregames. Always seems a little too forced in my opinion, but I'll definitely give the game a shot.
Well, it's from the guy who did God Hand, which is a hidden gem of the late PS2 era.

It was basically a generic 3D beat-em'-up, but it parodied basically every game in the genre, as well as a number of anime/tokusatsu tropes, which made it about a billion times better than it had any right to be.

From that, and what we've seen so far of Madworld, I expect him to parody the super-violence in modern videogames like Resident Evil 4/5, Gears of War, God of War, and so on.

Also did I mention he was the director of Okami? :chuckle:
 

Spire

III
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Well, it's from the guy who did God Hand, which is a hidden gem of the late PS2 era.

It was basically a generic 3D beat-em'-up, but it parodied basically every game in the genre, as well as a number of anime/tokusatsu tropes, which made it about a billion times better than it had any right to be.

From that, and what we've seen so far of Madworld, I expect him to parody the super-violence in modern videogames like Resident Evil 4/5, Gears of War, God of War, and so on.

Also did I mention he was the director of Okami? :chuckle:
And Viewtiful Joe ;) Yeah, I've read about his history before. Never got the chance to play God Hand, but heard incredible things about it. If parody be the case, then my interest just leapt forward.

Anyways, back to SSB..
 

Pieman0920

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*looks at Geno aguments from last night*

....Why are people acting like Geno is synonymous with SMRPG? He's just a party member, not the star....aditionally, its rarerly taken into account that Geno has the problem of being, relativily unpoppular (only so on message boards) only having really one game, said game being from ages ago (Has there been a poppular retro character? If they were poppular, then they wouldn't be retro) and a thrid party, all at the same time. There is no example of any smash character having all these problems, yet people try to counter them with a different character for each problem, rather than a single character. (Because it really can't be done, I guess)
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

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The Western side of Pop Star.
Well, it's from the guy who did God Hand, which is a hidden gem of the late PS2 era.
Quoted for truth. Now THAT's a hardcore "Nintendo hard" game and I should know, because I own it. There's simply nothing quite like pummeling mooks at absurd velocities(which is so ridiculous that it's funny:laugh:).

Since I pretty much enjoyed some of Inaba-san's work in the past, I expect great things to come out of Madworld.

At any rate, back on topic. I forgot to mention that I also want to see Marina Liteyears(Mischief Makers) and/or Shinra(Ikaruga) representing Treasure in the next game, maybe.
 

Chief Mendez

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If Treasure actually gets a rep (and I would never have considered this a possibility before Saki showed up in Bralw, mind), it would probably be the Gunstar Heroes. Of all their different creations, they're probably the most iconic, though I know that really isn't saying much, what with the absurd obscurity of Treasure games, and the pseudo-No Sequel thing the company has.

Marina's a possibility, but Treasure hasn't touched that property at all after the game came out way back when.

Fun Fact: Mischief Makers is home to my favorite boss fight of all time: the Dodge-Ball fight against Cat-Clancer.
 

Kiyosuki

Smash Journeyman
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Feb 23, 2008
Messages
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*looks at Geno aguments from last night*

....Why are people acting like Geno is synonymous with SMRPG? He's just a party member, not the star....aditionally, its rarerly taken into account that Geno has the problem of being, relativily unpoppular (only so on message boards) only having really one game, said game being from ages ago (Has there been a poppular retro character? If they were poppular, then they wouldn't be retro) and a thrid party, all at the same time. There is no example of any smash character having all these problems, yet people try to counter them with a different character for each problem, rather than a single character. (Because it really can't be done, I guess)
He's hardly an unpopular character, he was very high on that Japanese vote for a reason. And aside from the third party (though like I said pages ago I don't know if he's as exclusive SquareEnix content as some think...) thing even more obscure things have gotten at least a trophy in these. But as much as I think it'd be neat to have him, realistically I don't really see it happening either. He's the mandatory fan favorite that'll probably never get a break.

Anyways, Bowser Jr was mentioned a few pages ago, and I think he'd make an awesome assist trophy. Or if they want to be cool, include him and the original Koopa Kids as an 8 in 1 package but I don't know if they could handle being that cool. Heads would explode at Nintendo.

I wonder if the Final Smash process should be reworked a bit or not...
 

Pieman0920

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The obscure things that have gotten in are all first party though, not third. He's completely owned by SE as well. If he were poppular enough to get into a smash game, he would have at least have made it into Itadaki Street DS, where SMRPG was refferenced, but nope, nothing.
 

Skyshroud

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To all the Geno fans: this incident keeps happening over and over about his appearance in Smash. No side is ever going to change their opinion, so let's just stop arguing about it. It is extremely pointless at this point.

Anyway, on to some real content. Does anyone else feel that there should be some more collaboration between the Smash studios (either Sakurai or whoever takes the lead on the next SSB title) and the creators of the actual characters? I know that Sakurai already gets assistance from them with the character models and such, but I think they need to help design their character's moves more. It would really help liven up the characters by not only making them true to their games, but making them better as well. Look at the characters Sakurai knows best: Kirby, Metaknight, and Dedede. They are all well-designed characters that can definitely hold their own. I can't help but feel if the original creators of each character provided more input, that more characters would end up like those three. I know it is a lot of work, which is why it probably won't happen, but the payoff sure seems like it would be worth it.
 

flyinfilipino

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He's hardly an unpopular character, he was very high on that Japanese vote for a reason. And aside from the third party (though like I said pages ago I don't know if he's as exclusive SquareEnix content as some think...) thing even more obscure things have gotten at least a trophy in these. But as much as I think it'd be neat to have him, realistically I don't really see it happening either. He's the mandatory fan favorite that'll probably never get a break.

Anyways, Bowser Jr was mentioned a few pages ago, and I think he'd make an awesome assist trophy. Or if they want to be cool, include him and the original Koopa Kids as an 8 in 1 package but I don't know if they could handle being that cool. Heads would explode at Nintendo.

I wonder if the Final Smash process should be reworked a bit or not...
You mean the Japanese poll that consisted of not too many people? Yeah, I agree with you about the rest though.

I think that if for some reason, the Mario series needed another rep, it would probably be Bowser Jr.

I think the Final Smash mechanic is fine, but it needs to spawn not so often when it's the only item turned on, and maybe some characters' FSes need to be changed.

The obscure things that have gotten in are all first party though, not third.
This too. As other people have said before, it's almost not even worth the effort to please a cult following that roams message boards.
 

Chief Mendez

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Anyway, on to some real content. Does anyone else feel that there should be some more collaboration between the Smash studios (either Sakurai or whoever takes the lead on the next SSB title) and the creators of the actual characters? I know that Sakurai already gets assistance from them with the character models and such, but I think they need to help design their character's moves more. It would really help liven up the characters by not only making them true to their games, but making them better as well. Look at the characters Sakurai knows best: Kirby, Metaknight, and Dedede. They are all well-designed characters that can definitely hold their own. I can't help but feel if the original creators of each character provided more input, that more characters would end up like those three. I know it is a lot of work, which is why it probably won't happen, but the payoff sure seems like it would be worth it.
The big reason behind this is simple: nobody else at Nintendo knows how to make fighting games.

And if they do, then we certainly don't know about it. Sakurai has a lot of experience with Smash Bros. already, so even if a few characters seem a bit strange, it's still probably a better alternative than letting the blind lead the ones with sigh, if you know what I mean.
 

MasterWarlord

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RYUK

***

BACKGROUND

Ryuk is a Shinigami (Also known as a Death God) from the Death Note series (This moveset is based off his anime incarnation.). All Shinigami live in the Shinigami realm, and they all posses items known as Death Notes. If you write someone’s name in a death note, they’ll die, and if a shinigami uses the death note then the remainder of that person’s life span is added to the Shinigami’s. For example, if a Shinigami kills a man who would normally die at 60 when he was only 40, the Shinigami would gain 20 years to his life span.

Shinigami rarely leave their realm to venture into the human world, if ever. Instead, they lead rather pointless existences in which they do nothing but kill for the sake of expanding their life spans and gambling the only thing they posses: Years of their lives. Ryuk grew quite bored of this and gave his spare Death Note to a human named Light for entertainment. This causes the events of the Death Note series to start taking place.

Ryuk stayed with Light to watch the chaos unfold as he started using it to ultimately achieve world domination. Ryuk isn’t on Light’s side, but Shinigami are required to stay by humans who they give their Death Note to, and what would be the point of coming to earth in the first place if not to watch the fun? Ryuk tells Light information about the Death Note at very inconvenient times, and only helps him when it makes the picture more interesting to watch.

LIFE FROM A DEATH GOD’S EYES

Shinigami have nearly limitless power, but they have many strict rules they must follow or else be severely punished. This helps keep them in check and ensures the human world stays in proper order. While they have all the power in the world, they are not allowed to kill a human with anything but their Death Note. If Ryuk dares to defy the rules and KOs by means other then his Death Note, then a black light will beam down from the top of the stage down onto him, undodgable, then cause him to dissolve into a pile of sand and losing a stock. This causes Ryuk’s high KO potential to be more of a bane then a strength, as when you’re damaging your foe you might accidentally KO them instead. The only situation where you can take complete advantage of Ryuk’s KO power is when your enemy only has one stock left, as you’ll KO them before you’re judged by the higher up Shinigami.

Of course, being a Shinigami also has it’s perks. Shinigami cannot be seen or heard by humans unless they touch the Shinigami’s notebook. This means that at the start of the fight, Ryuk is completely invisible until a foe touches him, and he also has no entrance animation. Ryuk’s notebook can be seen in his hand, though, giving away his position. However; Ryuk can drop the notebook with his down special to take more adavantage of this invisibility. You probably won’t be able to take advantage of it for long before a foe touches the death note and it’s quite hard due to you also being unable to see yourself, but it fits into Ryuk’s playstyle quite nicely.

Shinigami can get a bit careless with their notebooks of death at times, and Ryuk is no exception. If Ryuk is damaged for 30% without damaging the enemy, it will cause him to drop his notebook. Also, if Ryuk is killed by the higher up Death Gods for killing someone by means other then his Death Note, it will stay where he was when he died, it not respawning with him. Foes can pick up Ryuk’s dropped Death Note and simply throw it off stage, or pocket it by pressing down B (They regain their Down Special after pocketing it.). Once the foe has pocketed the Death Note, they’ll have to be KOd or take 30% damage without them damaging you to drop it themselves.

STATS

Size: 9/10
Ryuk towers over all humans, being a head taller then even Ganondorf. He thankfully isn’t particularly wide, having short skinny limbs, preventing him from being absurdly huge. Still, Ryuk has an awkward time defending himself from aerial assaults and hitting foes down low due to his massive height.

Weight: 7/10
Ryuk is decently heavy, but he’s not among the heaviest. Unlike most heavyweights, he’s not particularly fat or muscly, keeping him from being at the top of the list.

Walking Speed: 2/10
Standard slow badass walk.

Running Speed: 4/10
Ryuk’s running speed by default is far from a sight to see, but if you take out his wings with his up special he gains a gliding run like Meta Knight and Charizard that boosts this stat to a more respectable 6/10.

Traction: 6/10
Ryuk doesn’t trip –too- much due to the badass factor, but he still is slightly clumsy.

Power: 7/10
Ryuk has plenty of KO options, and his Death Note is among the most powerful moves in the game. Plenty of his moves do average/above average knockback as well. Ryuk isn’t quite on the level of the most powerful characters, though, as he has a good deal more weak attacks then the other heavy hitters.

Attack Speed: 6/10
Power and speed? A deadly combination that few have the luxury to have, but Ryuk is quite limited in how much he gets to use his otherwise good stats due to having to kill with his Death Note. Ryuk is far from the fastest of fighters, but he does have some actual combos, a rarity in Smash. If you want more fast moves, you can send Ryuk into Withdrawal (Details later), but this severely limits Ryuk’s arsenal. In any case, Ryuk can actually damage rack decently and isn’t nearly as easy to approach as most characters his size.

Range: 6.5/10
Most of Ryuk’s attacks have average range, and this range dips below average and above average considerably. Still, Ryuk has a move that can potentially cover the entire stage in his dsmash if used correctly, and if he charges his bair it can have massive range as well. These two moves help to ensure Ryuk is among the better ranged fighters, even if he does lack a simple spammable projectile.

Priority: 6/10
This is a similar case to Ryuk’s range. Most of Ryuk’s moves have average priority, but several dip below or above average, it balancing out a good bit. However, Ryuk does have a good few disjointed moves, his dsmash and bair once again sticking out among them. Some of these disjointed moves have bad priority, though, so Ryuk’s priority isn’t anything too exceptional.

First Jump: 9/10
Ryuk has among the best first jumps in the game, using his long legs to get up into the air.

Extra Jumps: 4/10
Ryuk has four extra jumps, but only when he has his wings out from his up special. If he has his wings out, these jumps are great, on the level of Meta Knight’s, but otherwise Ryuk has no extra jumps at all, making him extremely gimpable.

Glide: 5/10
A similar case to above. Ryuk can only glide when he his wings out from his up special, meaning there are times when Ryuk is unable to glide. When he can glide, though, Ryuk’s glide is absolutely amazing, beating out Meta Knight’s. Very easy to control and lasts even longer.

Fall Speed: 6/10
Ryuk falls slower then most heavyweights due to not being as heavy, but still leans towards the fast faller side.

Recovery: 7/10
Ryuk’s recovery is an extremely mixed bag. Ryuk can have his wings out for as long as he wants, but if he does so his size is increased even further, making him bait for combo food. Without his wings, Ryuk gimps himself, what with not having so much as a second jump. However; smart Ryuk players will get their wings out once they’re at a percentage where they can’t be easily comboed and are in danger of being knocked off, so it’s not a huge issue. Ryuk’s recovery otherwise is among the best in the game, but due to Ryuk having to be careful to not let his wings get in his way while on the stage things become more complicated.

Crouch: 3/10
Ryuk simply gets on one knee like Ganondorf, this doesn’t allow him to actually dodge much of anything.

Crawl: 5/10
Ryuk can only crawl while in his withdrawal state. Read Ryuk’s Juicy Apple special and his dtilt for details.

Hover:No.
Wall jump:No.
Wall cling:No.

BASIC ACTIONS/ANIMATIONS

Standard Pose:
Ryuk stands tall and holds his long arms up at his sides.

Idle Pose:
Ryuk hunches over slightly and lets his arms falls to the ground, looking somewhat like a zombie.

Walking:
Ryuk is in his idle pose as he slowly comes forward in a zombie like manner.

Running:
Ryuk walks more like a normal humanoid with his arms up off the ground and standing up straight.

Dashing:
Ryuk pumps his arms as he runs forward with his long legs. He’s struggling slightly to do this, but not nearly as much as Ganondorf.

Crouching:
Ryuk gets down on one knee in a crouch nearly identical to Ganondorf’s.

First Jump:
Ryuk crouches down in a pose like a frog, then springs up a massive distance. A bit more starting lag then usual for a jump.

Extra Jumps:
Assuming Ryuk has wings from his up special out, he does a simple flap of them to gain some air. Otherwise, Ryuk has no extra jumps.

Shield:
Ryuk blocks himself with his arms as the standard bubble shield forms. If Ryuk has wings from his up special out, he furls them up around himself to help defend himself.

Spot Dodge:
Ryuk stands on one leg as he leans into the background quickly, then quickly regains his footing.

Roll:
Ryuk hunches over as leaps forward/backwards and rolls along the ground in a fashion like Snake’s dashing attack. Great distance comparable to Mewtwo’s roll, but rather laggy.

Air Dodge:
Ryuk snaps his fingers, causing some shadows to conceal him briefly.

Asleep:
Ryuk stands in his idle pose, but hunched over even more so as he sleeps standing in place.
Dizzy:
Ryuk holds his head as his Shinigami Eyes glow and swirl about.

***

MOVESET

SPECIALS

Neutral Special – Death Note



Assuming he has it on him, Ryuk takes out his Death Note and opens it up, then summons a pen in his other hand, then starts writing down the victim’s name into the notebook. If there are multiple players, he writes down the name of the nearest player. He can have multiple names written down at once and won’t try to write somebody’s name down twice. You can’t cancel this or slowly write it bit by bit, it has to be all at once and it takes a good 1.5 seconds, so you have to search a bit for a good time to use it.

After writing the victim’s name down, absolutely nothing happens. . .Until 30 seconds pass. Heartbeat sounds can be heard from the victim and they’ll start flashing red at this time. The heartbeats get faster and faster and the victim starts flashing more rapidly/a deeper shade of red for the next 10 seconds, warning them of what’s to come. At 40 seconds after writing the victim’s name down, the victim will suddenly stop in place as they have a heart attack, holding their heart, then they sky rocket upwards with ridiculously high upward knockback and 28% damage. However, there’s a big catch. Despite the huge 40 second build up, the foe can “spot dodge” the actual heart attack like any other attack. With the massive amount of warning signs, competent foes will nearly never actually be hit by the heart attack. Ryuk will want to either have the foe grabbed/performing a throw on them or stun them when the 40 seconds finally all pass to make dodging the heart attack impossible. Keeping the foe from escaping death is a large part of Ryuk’s playstyle.

If Ryuk is interrupted when trying to write down someone’s name, it counts as a “misspelling”. If a Shinigami ever misspells a victim’s name four times, they become immune to the effects of the Death Note. This is unlikely to occur, but if you’re careless with the Death Note then you might screw yourself over.

Neutral Special (Without Death Note) – Juicy Apple



Ryuk takes out his favorite food, a big juicy apple, briefly licking his lips as he does so, then chomps the whole thing down eagerly. It takes him a full second to chew down the whole apple, but he’ll heal 4% over the course of the second.

This is obviously hard to abuse, but the thing is if you use this move at all, you have to abuse it. Apples are essentially like drugs for Ryuk, and if he goes 20 seconds without having one he’ll go into a withdrawal. This causes his body to twist up in weird ways and for him to act unpredictablly. Ryuk will now walks on his hands, reducing his movement speed a good bit, and also has a much higher tripping rate. More importantly, Ryuk has a new minature moveset while in this state that only consists of standards and tilts, and of course the neutral special to eat an apple to get him out of the withdrawal. You may want to occasionally use this move intentionally, as the new moves Ryuk gets are fast and good damage rackers, but you have to ensure you know what you’re doing, as all the rest of your moves get lost.

Side Special – Deal with the Devil
Ryuk slashes in front of himself quickly. This has lag and range comparable to Koopa Klaw, Bowser’s side special. If you grab a foe with this, , Ryuk simply holds them in his normal grab animation and says “How about a deal? Half your life span for the Shinigami eyes.”. Foes can break out of this like a normal grab while Ryuk talks, meaning this won’t work until your foe already has 50% or so to keep them from button mashing out. After this, Ryuk places his hand over the victim’s eyes and his hand and the victim’s face pulse red briefly before the grab is complete. The foe’s damage percentage doubles, and their eyes are now blood red Shinigami eyes.

So just what do the Shinigami eyes do? They allow the user to know the name of anyone by merely looking at them. This is how Death Gods so easily kill anyone they please with the Death Note. The Shinigami Eyes don’t do anything useful on their own, but if someone with Shinigami Eyes obtains the Death Note one of their specials is replaced with Ryuk’s neutral special. They now can use Ryuk’s Death Note against him if they manage to take it from him. The special that’s replaced varies from character to character, but is always the least essential one to the character. For example, Kawasaki needs his neutral and down specials for his mechanic and his up special for recovery, so the Death Note would replace his side special.

The Shinigami Eyes cannot be removed, and will stay with a player even if they lose their current stock. Ryuk cannot double anyone’s damage percentage with the side special a second time. Should Ryuk grab somebody who already has Shinigami Eyes, it will act simply as if he grabbed them normally. If Ryuk grabs the foe in the air, Ryuk will automatically perform his uthrow on the foe to prevent easy suicide KOs/spikes with a dthrow. Ryuk will treat other Ryuks as players who already have Shinigami Eyes when using his side special. How can you give the eyes of a Death God to a Death God?

Up Special – Wings of the Death God



Ryuk sprouts out a massive pair of deadly wings. This takes a full second, and they will stay out forever until you use this up special again, which causes him to withdraw his wings back into his body. This move doesn’t directly help Ryuk recover, but when he has his wings out, he can use all four of his extra jumps and can also glide. In addition Ryuk also gets a new dashing animation where he glides along the ground like Meta Knight and Charizard, increasing his running speed slightly. As if all this wasn’t enough, Ryuk’s fair is also sped up to the point of being able to wall of pain quite nicely (More details located under the fair).

Why would you ever NOT want to have your wings out? Because they increase Ryuk’s already huge size. The gigantic wings are hurtboxes for Ryuk, and they make his width match his insane height, giving him, say, a 12/10 size ranking. This makes Ryuk ABSURDLY easy to combo. Still, you can’t sprout out your wings on a whim due to the lag. They have to already be out once you get knocked off stage, or your recovery will be hurt significantly as Ryuk takes the time to get out his wings. The best idea is to only sprout out your wings when you’re at high percentages and would be unable to make it back. Ryuk doesn’t have the luxury of waiting until typical kill percents to do this, though, as without his wings he doesn’t have so much as even a second jump. It’s best to get your wings out once you’re at around 50%. At that point foes can’t combo you –too- horribly due to your size anyway.

Down Special – Counterfeit Notebook
Firstly, a tidbit of information not directly related to this move. When somebody picks up a Death Note from Ryuk/them having dropped it, they’ll carry it and be able to throw it like a throwing item, but this limits their moveset due to the mechanics of throwing items and they won’t be able to use the actual power of the Death Note. Their down special of the note holder during this time is replaced with pocketing the notebook so it doesn’t get in the way, although non-Ryuk players will only have this ability if they have the Shinigami eyes.

Anyway, for the actual move Ryuk forms a counterfeit notebook in his hand, carrying it in his hand as if he just picked up the real Death Note, using it as a throwing item. This looks completely identical to the real Death Note. Ryuk can switch which Death Note he has pocketed and which one he’s holding as a throwing item with his down special. Ryuk can only have one counterfeit notebook out at a time. This allows large potential for mindgames, particularly if you’ve given your foes Shinigami eyes and they’re trying to hunt down your real notebook to use for themselves. This can also be used early on in the fight while Ryuk is still invisible from the foe not having touched the real Death Note. This also provides you with a simple projectile.

Just make sure you don’t mix up yourself which Death Note is real in the process. If you lose track of which Death Note is real, you can use your Neutral/Down special to see which version of the move is performed (Ryuk requires the real Death Note to perform the regular versions of the move), although this will also be a dead give away to your enemy, so it’s best to try to remember yourself. If you can remember, it’s very much in your interest to not use the neutral/down special when two notes are out, as your enemy will still treat fake Death Notes as real, writing down in them like real ones if they have the Shinigami eyes. They won’t realize it’s a fake until 30 seconds pass and nothing happens. This move also makes mirror matches quite interesting, as there can be up to four Death Notes floating about. An all Ryuk free for all/team battle only gets all the more crazy.

If a foe with Shinigami Eyes pockets a Death Note, real or fake, they can’t hold onto a Notebook in both their pocket and hands like Ryuk can. If they try to pick up a Death Note when they already have one, they’ll drop the current one they have. No mere mortal can use the Death Note as well as a Death God, whether or not they have the Shinigami eyes.

Down Special (Without Death Note) – Flight of the Notebook
Unlike Juicy Apple, Ryuk will only use this move if he’s not holding a Death Note, real or fake, in his hands or in his pocket. If he does so, he’ll simply switch the positions of any notebooks he currently has, assuming he already has a fake notebook in play.

Ryuk snaps his fingers for his notebook to start flying towards him, using it’s two halves of itself as wings. It comes towards Ryuk at a slow speed, that of Ganondorf’s walk, but it won’t stop until something gets in the way/it returns to its master. The main purpose of this is to keep Ryuk from being screwed over if a foe throws his notebook off the stage, as he can have it simply fly back up to him. Still, if you’re careless and just let the notbook slowly come back to you, your enemy can grab it as it flies and throw it away once more. The notebook does nothing to hurt enemies as it does this.

Fake notebooks will not react to this move, allowing you to easily detect which ones are real, as if you performing this down special wasn’t enough. If there are multiple real notebooks from multiple Ryuks, then only the nearest notebook will fly to Ryuk.

STANDARDS

Standard Attack – Fountain Pen
Upon the first press of A, Ryuk will take out his Death Note and pen and start writing in it in a completely identical fashion to the neutral A, but in reality he’s not actually writing anything. He’s just going through the motions of doing so. Ryuk will stay in this position until you either do the next part of the combo or try to do another move/walk to cancel it. This has minimal starting lag and nearly no ending lag to come out of.

For the next part of the combo, Ryuk suddenly shoots ink out of his pen out at the foe, it going half a Battlefield platform forward and Ryuk keep spraying ink as you hold A. The ink does mass hits of 1%, being as powerful as Bowser’s fire breath but with only half as much range, and it still weakening in time like Bowser’s fire breath to have almost no range at all. This has no start up lag but slight ending lag. If you attempt to perform this button input without any form of Death Note, Ryuk will skip the first part of the attack and go straight to shooting ink out of his pen.

At first, this move doesn’t seem particularly useful at all, but it has massive potential for mindgames due to the first part of the move having the exact same animation as Ryuk’s neutral B. You can use this to trick foes into thinking that you have the real Death Note when in reality you’re using a fake, and when you have the actual Death Note you can trick foes into thinking that you’re vulnerable and busy writing their name down into the note, then when they carelessly come to punish you can spray the ink at them or instantly come out of the animation and attack them with another attack.

Standard Attack (Withdrawal) – Feral Chomp
Ryuk bites forward with average starting lag but no ending lag. Small range. The hitbox is actually at the bottom of Ryuk due to Ryuk walking on his hands while in a withdrawal, him biting down at the ground. The bite has average priority and deals 10% with average knockback. This can devour items like the neutral Bs of Wario, King Dedede, and Kirby, as well as Waddle Dees/Doos and other similar projectiles that the earlier mentioned specials can. Ryuk will take 5% and a slight stun if he eats an explosive item just like the other characters as well. This is the closest thing Ryuk has to a KO move while in his withdrawal state.

Dashing Attack – Sprouting Wings on the Fly
Ryuk continues running forward as his wings start to sprout out of his sides like in his up special. However; due to Ryuk already running and taking some energy, it’s twice as laggy as his up special to get them out. After getting out his wings, Ryuk will switch to his gliding dash with his wings. This does nothing to hurt foes.

If you need to get your wings out ASAP and you have some room to run, you can sprout your wings on the fly to keep from being vulnerable, it being far harder to punish you while you’re running then while you’re standing in place. However; if Ryuk runs off an edge while performing this attack (He is capable of doing so unlike most dashes), the move will be interrupted, so you need around two thirds the length of Battlefield to run. If you perform this move when you already have your wings out when performing this attack, Ryuk will take them in instead with the same properties, although this is worse as Ryuk travels forwards faster during the attack, meaning he needs more of a “runway” to pull in his wings.

Dashing Attack (Withdrawal) - Sprint
Ryuk runs on his hands a good bit faster at 3X his normal speed, but then quickly get tired after dashing the half a Battlefield platform and walks half his withdrawal speed for another half of a Battlefield platform. This has no starting lag or ending lag besides it’s duration. Ryuk’s body is an average priority hitbox as he’s running quickly that does 9% and below average knockback. If this move is spammed, the speed boost slightly beets out the speed decrease, Ryuk moving slightly faster then if he was simply running normally.

TILTS

Forward Tilt – Slap on the Back
Ryuk swings his arms forward with average range and priority, below average starting lag and average ending lag. If Ryuk hits anyone with this, he’ll deal 8% and cause the foe to spin around rapidly in place for a second. During this time, the foe can be hit with other attacks, but they have super armor as they spin about. After the attack is finished, the foe will be facing the opposite direction they were initially. You have very little time to follow this up due to the ending lag of the move, so it’s best to do something simple. However; this can potentially lead into a large chain. To prevent infinities, the ftilt won’t cause the spinning effect for a half a second after the foe comes out of the spinning animation.

Forward Tilt (Withdrawal) - Frontflip
Due to already walking on his hands in his withdrawal state, Ryuk frontflips rather then backflipping, essentially cartwheeling forward. Ryuk’s body is an above average priority hitbox that does 8% and weak knockback forwards. Ryuk frontflips the distance of a quarter of a Battlefield platform, and this move has very little lag on either end. If you activate this move right after ending it, you’ll perform it again, but faster. This can be used to combo foes at low percentages, potentially getting heavy foes from 0 to 32% if used correctly. However; if you do this more than four times in succession, Ryuk will collapse onto the floor, dizzy and begging to be badly punished.

Up Tilt – Calling to another Dimension
Ryuk reaches up for the sky as far as he can with his long arms and looks straight up to the sky, letting out a loud cry. This has very little starting lag, but below average ending lag. This has good range above Ryuk, but the priority is bad due to this not being meant to be an attack, and this also translates into low power, only 6% and below average (Bordering on weak) knockback. On it’s own, the only practical use of this move is it’s range and low starting lag to stop aerial approaches.

However; Ryuk isn’t trying to attack players with this move. He’s calling out to the Shinigami Realm. If your opponent is somehow stupid enough to let you do this move 10 times in succession with no pause in between, the higher up Death Gods of the Shinigami Realm will send down a new REAL Death Note down to your current position. There cannot be more then 2 real Death Notes per Ryuk. You wouldn’t particularly want to have to worry about keeping a second Death Note out of your foe’s hands, so this is mainly to replace your Death Note if you lost it.

This is completely impossible to pull off in standard competitive play, so don’t get any bright ideas about replacing your Death Notes there. In FFAs on big stages it’s much easier to actually manage to do, and more in the interest of competitive play, this can be used to great effect in team matches. Assuming team attack is on, you can give your ally Shinigami eyes right at the start so they won’t gain any damage, then have your ally cover you while you summon a Death Note for them by spamming utilt. Nice!

Up Tilt (Withdrawal) – Leg Clap
Ryuk is essentially performing a handstand in his withdrawal state, so he claps his legs together up above him. This can be spammed massively, having nearly no lag whatsoever. Ryuk’s legs have above average priority. Being hit by Ryuk’s legs clapping together does weak set knockback upwards and 5%, but the set knockback will push foes into position to be hit by the sweetspot of the attack if you quickly utilt again. If foes get hit by Ryuk’s feet clapping together, they take 13% and above average vertical knockback. It’s hard to hit with Ryuk’s feet without hitting with his legs first, but why would you want to when you can easily tack on 5% extra damage?

Down Tilt – Circle of Death
Ryuk snaps his fingers, which causes a fireball to appear on either side of him right next to him. This has below average starting lag. The fireballs have bad priority comparable to Mario’s fireballs, but it’s disjointed so it’s not an issue. Contact with the fireballs does 7% and below average knockback, and if you don’t hold A they vanish right after being summoned with Ryuk having average ending lag. Horrible attack.

If you do hold down A, though, the fireballs will rotate around Ryuk along the floor in a circle formation. The fireballs actually move in their Z plane as they do this, coming closer to the camera/going into the background as they form a circle around Ryuk. This gives the move the ability to hit people spot dodging or air dodging into the background, although it still can’t hit people who use rolls. Ryuk can release A at any time to cause the flames to vanish and have average ending lag. At low percents, you might be able to hit with this multiple times for a quick 21% damage or so, particularly against heavy foes. This is particularly useful when your foe is constantly spot dodging to try to dodge the heart attack from the Death Note if you can’t disable them or grab them to keep them from resisting it.

On stages where the Pokemon Trainer isn’t too far into the background, you can also use the dtilt to attack him personally. This prevents the trainer from switching for 10 seconds as he frantically tries to put out the fire, and if the current Pokemon is KOd they also won't auto switch when they respawn. Ryuk can use this in the Pokemon Trainer match up to force the trainer to fight with the Pokemon he is most comfortable against, as well as to prevent him from renewing his current Pokemon’s stamina by letting it rest.

Down Tilt (Withdrawal) – Boot to the Head
Ryuk’s crouching animation when in a withdrawal is quite awkward. He sits down on the ground fairly normally. . .But then quickly puts his legs behind his head, getting into a pretzel formation. Ryuk can surprisingly crawl like this as well despite being unable to crawl normally, moving along the ground with his hands, though it’s rather slow.

From his pretzel position, Ryuk extends one of his legs even further, kicking forward with one of them behind him. This has very poor range behind Ryuk and very poor priority, but has no lag whatsoever, being extremely spammable. If you do spam the move, Ryuk will alternate which leg he kicks backwards. Each kick deals 5% and horrendously weak knockback, but this can potentially be used to combo foes, even if their percentages aren’t that low, although this is most ideal to use on foes with 0%.

Ryuk can crawl backwards to travel the short distance he hit foes to hit them again. Only at 60% or so are foes particularly safe from this move. This can kill off of walk offs in a chain grab like fashion, but if you do it up against a wall foes will easily be able to escape it as the knockback will shoot them upwards a little, and if they DI upwards it’s easy to get out of.

SMASHES

Forward Smash – Shinigami Eyes



Ryuk bends over, extending his head out to be a good distance in front of him, a good half a Battlefield platform away or so. Ryuk’s eyes then briefly glow, which is when the hitbox comes into effect, being located in front of Ryuk’s eyes and stretching out another half a Battlefield platform forwards. Foes must be facing Ryuk for this to work. Due to Ryuk’s height, even though he bends over short character can still duck under this quite easily, and it’s even easier to just jump over his head and punish him. However, Ryuk can angle his head up or down at any time during the attack, making the attack much harder to dodge.

The actual effect of the attack is stunning foes and some slight damage. The attack does 10% and a stun of 1 second uncharged, or 16% and 2 second stun time fully charged. There is average starting lag for this attack, but nearly no ending lag, allowing you to combo with this move easily. The main way to hit with the attack despite the lag is with it’s range. This stunner can be used to either start a combo for damage racking, or better yet to keep the foe in place when they’re about to have their heart attack from the Death Note. Follow this up by grabbing them then performing a dthrow for the best results for keeping the foe from escaping death.

If your foe isn’t facing you, use an ftilt rather then this move, and start up the fsmash as soon as Ryuk’s ending lag from the ftilt is over. You’ll just barely manage to set off the fsmash as the foe comes out from spinning in the ftilt, and they’ll now be facing you, and with an additional 8% to boot. You can then follow that up to the grab and dthrow. Ryuk has a surprising amount of combos for such a large character.

Up Smash – Shinigami Apple



Ryuk summons a disgusting Shinigami apple from the Shinigami world, holding it like he does in the picture. As you charge the smash attack, Ryuk winds up like a baseball pitcher, then upon releasing the smash attack he throws it upwards. This has below average starting lag. How far up the Shinigami Apple goes depends on the charge, but it gets to its destination quite quickly no matter what the charge over the course of a quarter of a second. The apple can go from just barely above Ryuk to 1.5X Ganondorf’s height above him. It has fairly bad priority (Though it’s disjointed so it doesn’t matter really), but it packs a punch, doing 15-20% with above average knockback to knockback that borders on high based on the charge.

If Ryuk hits anyone with the apple, it shatters apart into sandy particles, and the attack ends. However; otherwise, there is ending lag as the apple comes back down to Ryuk. It varies based on how high Ryuk threw the apple. If the charge was maxed, it will take a lengthy second for the apple to come down to Ryuk, but if it wasn’t charged at all, it will come down nearly instantly.

Anyway, Ryuk is laughing maniacally, looking upwards as he performs the attack. If he misses with the apple, though, it will fall back down into his mouth, causing him to choke on it. Shinigami apples taste absolutely horrible and are made of sand, which causes Ryuk to cough up sand above himself in a mushroom cloud shape roughly Bowser’s size with disjointed priority. This does 22 hits of 1% and flinching over a mere half a second, the last hit doing average knockback, making this an excellent damage racker. There is some slight ending lag to end the already lengthy attack though as Ryuk coughs a bit more, recovering from the Shinigami apple.

Overall, the second version of the usmash takes a second, assuming it’s uncharged. . .Exactly how long it takes Ryuk to chow down on a human apple. Despite the apple tasting horrible, it is still technically an apple and can stave off Ryuk’s cravings, keeping him from going into withdrawal. This is easier to pull off in a fight then eating a juicy apple, as you’re not totally defenseless. Eating a Shinigami apple will thankfully not cause Ryuk to crave for more due to it’s horrible taste, only the Juicy Apple causing withdrawals.

If you intend to use the regular usmash, you’ll want to charge the attack, as the move has absolutely no range otherwise. If you want to eat the Shinigami apple, though, you’ll want to throw the move out immediately. You have to think about which part of the move you want to hit with before you use this. Use the apple on your enemies for KOing (Assuming you don’t mind getting killed by the higher up Death Gods), or use the apple on yourself for damage racking/staving off your apple cravings.

Down Smash – Undead Retriever



Ryuk opens up a portal to the Shinigami realm and it simply swirls around ominously for the charging animation. The move has above average starting lag, but no ending lag whatsoever. Once the starting lag is up, Sidoh (Who is roughly the size of Dedede), the Shinigami pictured here, will fly out of the portal, Ryuk now free to move about as he pleases. “Where’s my notebook?” Sidoh whines. After this, Sidoh flies towards the nearest Death Note (He will ignore any notebooks being held by Ryuk) at an average speed, around Wario’s run or so. Contact with Sidoh (Who is obviously disjointed from Ryuk, and has infinite priority) at any time does 20% with above average knockback, or up to 28% and high knockback fully charged. Once Sidoh obtains a notebook, he lets out a laugh, then goes to fly off the top of the screen, his movement speed increasing to Meta Knight’s run and his knockback changing to a vertical trajectory. Sidoh destroys the notebook he takes with him.

Sidoh isn’t the brightest of fellows, as he will stupidly take any fake notebooks and treat them just like real notebooks. It works quite well to place a fake notebook at one end of the stage, then summon Sidoh for him to travel across the entire stage, being a hitbox the whole time.

If a player is holding the nearest notebook when Sidoh is summoned/a player grabs it before Sidoh gets to it, he’ll chase after the player. If Sidoh gets to them, he’ll bite at the foe to stun them, having small range but doing 10% in addition to the stun. After the bite, Sidoh will quickly swipe away the foe’s notebook and proceed to fly up off the top of the screen. If the foe has the real notebook and is using it against you with Shinigami eyes and you’re having a lot of trouble getting it back, your best course of option might be to simply send in Sidoh to destroy it.

If there is no notebook besides the one Ryuk is holding when Sidoh is summoned, he’ll simply instantly fly straight up off the top of the screen. Ryuk cannot use his dsmash again until Sidoh leaves the screen. If there are multiple Ryuks, there can still only be one Sidoh at a time, so you’ll want to ensure you’re the first one to use the dsmash so the birdlike Shinigami goes for your enemy rather than you.

AERIALS

Neutral Aerial – Shadow Barrier
Ryuk claps his hands together, it being merely for effect and not being a hitbox. This has below average lag on both ends, but the move does absolutely nothing at first. Instead, the move activates the next time Ryuk jumps up from the ground. When he does so, a shady wall will come up out of the ground where Ryuk jumped, and it will keep following Ryuk until he lands on the ground again. The wall cannot go a Battlefield platform away from it’s initial position, preventing you from having too much fun with this. If you attempt to do so, the wall will dematerialize instantly. The barrier is completely solid and you can’t go through it while it’s present. It lasts 30 seconds.

If you use your nair when you already have a shadow barrier up, it will explode, creating a hitbox along the wall and very slightly out to the sides of it that does 14% and average knockback. You’ll have to use your nair again after that if you want to form another shadow wall.

This is useful for a variety of things. You can form a wall to defend against projectiles or create a wall for your good buddy Dedede to infinite the foe against in a team match. The most notable use of this move though is at the start of the match before your foe has touched your Death Note. You can drop your Death Note so your foe can’t see you (As the Death Note isn’t invisible), knock the foe away before they can get to it, then use your nair to form a barrier around the Death Note to prevent them from obtaining it! You’re now free to use your invisibility as you please. Go crazy.

Forward Aerial – Death Wing
Ryuk extends out his wings, then flaps them forwards in an animation just like Charizard’s fair to hit foes. After this, Ryuk retracts his wings back into his body. This has average range and priority and does 13% with average knockback. However; the move is quite laggy on both ends due to Ryuk having to form and deform his wings before performing the actual attack. If Ryuk’s wings are already out from his up special, the lag is vastly reduced down to the level of Bowser’s fair, making it a viable wall of pain option and overall much better.

Back Aerial – Playing with Fire
Ryuk turns his head around to look behind him as he brings out a hand, summoning a flame the size of Kirby in it. This has below average starting lag. Touching the disjointed flame does 5% with weak knockback, but this phase of the attack only stays until you release A. Until you release A, Ryuk rears his head back further and further, breathing in deeply.

Upon releasing A, Ryuk jerks his head forwards and blows, causing the flame to fly forwards. Contact with the flame at this point does 16% with above average knockback, but this part of the move has average starting lag. The range of the move is increased based on how long Ryuk charged the move. The fire can go just barely in front of Ryuk before dying off or up to slightly over a Battlefield Platform away with a 2.5 second charge. Unlike most aerials, this move won’t be interrupted if you land on the ground before it finishes. The move thankfully has no ending lag whatsoever, as the start up lag for the entire move is at least above average, even without charging it.

Up Aerial – Spine Breaker
Ryuk takes his Death Note and hurls it upwards. It has a very large amount of pages – notice how it never runs out? It’s quite heavy. The notebook travels up twice Ganondorf’s height over half a second. This move has low starting lag, and Ryuk is free to move about as he pleases after throwing the Death Note. The notebook is a disjointed yet low priority hitbox, but deals a rather impressive 18% and above average knockback, bordering on high. After the notebook is done going upwards, it slowly falls to the ground, players (Including Ryuk) unable to pick it up again until it hits the ground. That means you –really- don’t want to use this over a pit.

This move is quite powerful with good range and little lag, so there’s a big catch to it. If you hit anybody with the Death Note or anybody attacks it before it hits the ground, the book’s spine will be broken, and all the pages will fall out of it. Most of them will be carried in the wind off into the background/foreground and vanish, only two pages staying in the playing field as they slowly fall down. These two pages will function like normal Death Notes, but you can only write down a single name on these pages, a single page not having much room to write on. In addition, if you try to throw a page like a Death Note with your uair or use the page as a throwing item, it will only deal 1% and flinching. The best use of the uair by far is with a fake Death Note, as it’s still just as poweful as the real one. However, if there are any pages of the fake Death Note still present, you can’t create a new one to use, so this move is still far from spammable. And no, despite this move technically “killing with the Death Note”, Ryuk will still die if he KOs with his uair. The only allowed method for Shinigami to kill humans is to write the human’s name down into the book, not to beat them to death with it.

If you try to use the uair without any form of Death Note (Or pages created from breaking a Death Note’s spine), Ryuk will simply do the hurling motion as if he had one. This makes his arm an average priority hitbox hitbox that reaches up an average distance with the same low lag as the normal move. Ryuk’s arm does a weak 8% and below average knockback. Decent for juggling at low percentages if nothing else.

Down Aerial – Blackness from the Abyss
Ryuk tears open a portal to the Shinigami realm, slashing downwards. The actual slash does nothing and is just for effect. However, as stated before, this will create a portal roughly the size of Wario to the Shinigami Realm that swirls about. This has below average starting lag and Ryuk is free to move as soon as the portal is created. Immediately after being created, a black liquid will start pouring out of the portal straight downwards. As the liquid falls downwards, it pushes foes slightly, being around half as powerful as Mario’s FLUDD. This can be used to gimp recoveries, but it’s very weak, and will only gimp foes who were just barely were going to make the platform. The portal lasts 30 seconds, but can be destroyed early, having only 25 stamina.

If the black liquid from the portal lands on the ground rather then in a pit, it will create an area which foes can be tripped over a third the size of a Battlefield platform. The amount of time this spot will last is the amount of time the oil was poured out from the portal. Foes who trip over the black liquid will also slip from the spot slightly.

A good use of this is at the start of the match when you’re invisible. Drop your Death Note so your foe can’t see you, then quickly pour the black liquid over it. Foes will be unable to pick it up due to tripping and slipping every time they pass by (If it’s on the ground, they have to pick the notebook up for the game to register that they “touched it”).

However; you have to be careful when using the above application of the move, as there’s another part of the move. If you hit the black liquid with any form of fire attack (Ryuk’s options to do this himself are his dtilt and bair), it will burst into a large flame the size of Ganondorf. Contact with the flame does 16% with above average knockback, and if any notebook was in the liquid from the above strategy, it will be incinerated. The flame lasts for the remainder of time the black liquid would’ve lasted. A key factor of this move is that the fire will not hurt the person who created it by setting fire to the black liquid, which means foes can use this against Ryuk. You’d best be off only using the properties of the pool of liquid against foes without any fire attacks. Against foes who do have them, ideal use of this move is setting off the fire immediately so the foe doesn’t have the chance to do the same.

If you use the dair again when you already have a portal, pool of black liquid liquid, or a large flame up, they’ll vanish as you start the entire process over. However; if the foe burns the black liquid into a large flame, Ryuk will be unable to use his dair until the flame expires. Be sure to not give your foe that chance.

THROWS

Grab – Soul Grasp
Ryuk reaches out with a single hand. Above average starting lag for a grab, but little ending lag. Above average range, but nothing spectacular. Ryuk holds the foe delicately in one claw, just barely holding a piece of their skin/clothing. When doing a dash grab, Ryuk trades a bit of range for some speed to make the move less laggy, but it’s for the most part the same.

Pummel - Scarface
Ryuk slashes the victim across the face with his free hand dramatically. Above average lag for a pummel, 4%.

Forward Throw – Force Feed
Ryuk takes out a Shinigami apple just like the one in his usmash, then shoves it down the victim’s throat, dealing an impressive 13% to the foe. Afterwards, Ryuk takes his hand out of the victim’s mouth and shakes off all the drool in disgust while the victim constantly pukes up sand from the Shinigami apple. The pile of drool and sand created from this becomes an area where all players (Including Ryuk) can trip and slip over that lasts 20 seconds. If you use this throw again, the previous mass of drool and sand will vanish early. This can be used to defend your notebook in a similar manner to the dair, but isn’t as effective due to Ryuk also tripping over the spot, meaning he can’t pick up his notebook until the mess is gone. This throw is laggy and awkward to use in FFAs.

Back Throw – Wind-Up Throw
Ryuk turns around and picks the foe up off the ground, getting a more firm grip on them, then rapidly starts spinning them around as he leans back, standing on one leg, looking like a baseball pitcher. Ryuk can hold A as long as he wants to spin the throw around faster and faster, and the longer he winds up the more powerful the throw is. Upon releasing A, Ryuk throws the foe, dealing the damage and knockback.

During the wind up period the foe can escape with the difficulty of a normal grab, so you can’t be too greedy with how long you charge. With no charge at all, this does below average knockback and only 5%, but at a maximum charge of 3 seconds this does 20% and huge knockback. While Ryuk is winding up, you can tilt the control stick to change where Ryuk is aiming the poor victim. You change the trajectory of the throw to be straight up, but you can’t turn Ryuk around entirely. You can only pull off the higher charges when the foe is at very high percentages, and it’s rare you’ll be able to charge long at all in a FFA. Your general aim for KOing should be 2 seconds at the most for 15% and above average knockback.

Up Throw – Staring Death in the Face
Ryuk uses his hand not holding the foe to grab their head and forces them to look at him as he activates his Shinigamim eyes. This stuns the foe like in Ryuk’s fsmash and deals 5%. Ryuk then tosses the foe upwards with both hands quickly, dealing below average knockback and 6% for a total of 11%. The foe thrown has considerable hitstun as they go up into the air due to the stun from looking into Ryuk’s Shinigami eyes. You can quickly jump up into the air to perform either a uair (Assuming you have a notebook to use it with) or an fair if you have your wings out. This throw is very quick due to this being performed on foes grabbed in the air with Ryuk’s side special (When the victim already has Shinigami eyes).

Down Throw – Meat Shield
Ryuk holds the foe by the neck with both hands and pulls them up against himself, then steps into the background. However, Ryuk doesn’t pull the victim into the background with him, them still perfectly vulnerable to attack while Ryuk is safe from all harm. Ryuk will keep holding the foe in this position until you hit any button, at which point he’ll casually knock them away for weak knockback and 4%. The point of this throw is to be used in a FFA or team battles to allow another character to hit the foe you’re using as a meat shield. You should only knock the foe away if nobody’s coming.

When Ryuk is holding the foe like this, they can escape through button mashing, but it’s twice as hard to escape as a normal grab. This keeps them very vulnerable for a sizable period of time. This is far from useless in competitive play, as you can hold the foe as you wait for the Death Note to kill them to prevent them from escaping death.

FINAL SMASH

Final Smash – Breaking the Rules
A booming ominous voice is heard from the skies as they darken (Assuming the stage is outside) and any water on the stage turns blood red. “Well done, Ryuk. You have been promoted! Feel free to do with these fools as you see fit.”. Ryuk look up to hear the voice, being invulnerable, then laughs maniacally, becoming controllable and vulnerable again. For the next 30 seconds, Ryuk can KO people as he pleases without fear of the higher up Death Gods killing him, and to boot he can also create new Death Notes with a single use of his utilt due to the other Death Gods now favoring him. Finally, you’re free to use Ryuk’s KO power to your advantage and have as many Death Notes as you could ever want. All of Ryuk’s flaws are eliminated. Slaughter your foe so badly you won’t be able to recognize them.

OVERALL PLAYSTYLE – HARBRINGER OF DEATH
Ryuk takes a considerable amount of getting used to. If you don’t know what you’re doing, you’ll be punished for successfully landing a KO move on your enemy. This is sure to frustrate casuals and those who don’t have the patience to learn Ryuk. Ryuk without a doubt has among the highest learning curves of all the characters in Brawl, if not the very highest.

At the start of a match, you’ll want to take advantage of your invisibility. Mess with your down special to drop your notes (The real one as well as the fake one you just created) as quickly as possible. Your foe will probably be up against you by now. Quickly use a fast move on the foe to knock them away, or better yet use an ftilt followed by an fsmash on them to stun them. Once you've bought some time, use your nair or your dair (Assuming your foe has no fire moves) to block off access to your notebook so your invisibility is safe, then proceed to rack up the foe’s damage with Ryuk’s surprisingly large amount of fast moves for his size.

Once you’ve gotten your foe’s damage up to a sizable amount, it’s time end the little charade. When your foe is busy from being knocked off the platform or stunned, go pick up your notebook and quickly write down the foe’s name. If you’re lucky enough for the foe to still of not managed to touch your notebook, you can drop it again and cover it up, and your foe will be hard pressed to do much of anything while you stall the clock as the 40 seconds on their life tick down. When they’ve only got 10 seconds left, go stun them and use lengthy throws on them like crazy to prevent them from cheating death, or use your dtilt if the foe simply abuses sidesteps.

Of course, keeping your invisibility is only the most ideal situation, as it is extremely hard to pull off, much less keep track of your position the entire time. Only the most advanced of Ryuk players will do this flawlessly. Assuming you don’t have your invisibility or aren’t comfortable using it, you have another option of getting far into the lead in damage racking on the first stock – the Shinigami eyes. You only have to get 40-50% through normal means before using the eyes, at which point you can get your foe up to an easily KOable damage percentage through giving them the Shinigami eyes. If you’re confident enough in your skills to damage rack quickly with either invisibility or your Shinigami eyes, you can use the Death Note very early on so you won’t have to stall. However; if you actually manage to keep your invisibility, stalling is very easy.

Ryuk is highly skilled at getting ahead early on in the first stock, and he d*mn well needs to be, as if Ryuk ever falls behind in stock, things become extremely hard for him, as he HAS to get a KO with his Death Note to catch up. Ryuk players inexperienced with the Death Note will find it more difficult to KO foes with it, but experienced Ryuk players will find it among his easiest KO options, as they’ll find it easy to subdue foes to fall victim to the heart attack with Ryuk’s many stunners and such.

Once the foe only has one stock left, Ryuk can go crazy. Things become much simpler then. A particularly good method of KOing outside the Death Note is Ryuk’s dsmash. Set up a fake notebook on one end of the stage, then use the dsmash at the opposite end of the stage. You’ll have a giant disjointed KO move go across the entire stage, then shoot straight up to boot! A simple strategy is to simply not rely on the Death Note and to freely use other KO moves as you please, but if Ryuk ever falls behind in stock count this strategy will become your undoing.

Ryuk’s recovery is also quite awkward. You won’t want your wings out early on, as then the foe might instead get ahead early on due to being able to easily combo Ryuk – not good. However; Ryuk can’t afford to keep his wings tucked away until absurdly high percentages, as he doesn’t have so much as a second jump without his wings. You’ll want to be getting your wings out once you’re at 50%, at most. Still, much caution is required in when you do so. If you do so too early, you’ll get the crap comboed out of you, and if you do it too late you’ll practically gimp yourself when you get knocked off stage.

Ryuk is very hard to play as, but also very hard to play against if the Ryuk player is competent and knows what they’re doing. Nearly as much skill is required in bringing down the Death God reliably as there is in learning how to play him, which is another of Ryuk’s advantages. Many foes will be clueless as to what to do in this match up.

PLAYING AGAINST RYUK – CHEATING DEATH
Playing against Ryuk effectively isn’t as simple as some other characters. You’ll have to do some more actual studying in this match up to find Ryuk’s weaknesses and to keep him from getting set up too well. Many players will simply do a simple dashing attack forward as they go for Ryuk’s notebook, but Ryuk will easily punish this and set himself up so you can’t get rid of his invisibility. Your best bet is to roll towards the notebook so Ryuk can’t hit you away and make the Death Note unreachable. Forget about hurting Ryuk for now, making him visible is your top priority.

Now that you have Ryuk’s notebook, toss it off the stage ASAP. Ryuk will be forced to use his down special to make it come back to the stage which you can punish him for. Eventually Ryuk will inevitably get his notebook back, at which point he’ll try to write down a name in his notebook. Good Ryuk players won’t do it at a time that’ll make them open, but you need to give Ryuk as little time to himself as possible. Keep up the pressure. Ryuk will be wanting to get out his wings and write down your name in the notebook soon, and if you keep pressuring him well it’s unlikely he’ll be able to get everything set up. If he only gets out his wings, combo him, assuming your character is a faster one. If he only writes down your name, get him off stage with a simple average knockback move and gimp him for an easy KO.

However; this is only the most ideal situation against Ryuk. It’s highly unlikely everything will go so very smoothly. Ryuk isn’t that easy to pressure, he’s far faster then most characters with his size and power. If not for being restricted to his Death Note, he’d destroy you quite easily. Anyway, assuming you’re at least able to prevent Ryuk from becoming invisible, Ryuk will try to give you Shinigami eyes as an alternative to getting ahead early. If your percentage is lower then 45ish%, by all means, let him give you the eyes. He WILL give them to you eventually, so it’s best to minimize the damage you have for him to double.

Now that you have Shinigami Eyes, you’ll desperately want to get Ryuk’s notebook off him. To do this, you’ll have to damage him for 30% without him damaging you back. The best time to do this is when Ryuk gets out his wings at a lower percentage. Combo Ryuk up to make him drop his notebook, then enjoy your excellent new KO method. Fast weak characters will especially enjoy the newly found KO method they’ve gained, and they’ll also be better at preventing Ryuk from escaping a heart attack from his own notebook. Be cautious, though, as Ryuk can combo his ftilt to his fsmash to a throw to potentially deal 30% back to you and get you to drop it just as quickly as you gained it. Better yet, if you’re abusing your notebook too much, Ryuk can sic Sidoh on you with his dsmash to destroy the notebook entirely, although if Ryuk is that desperate, you’ve probably got the match in the bag.

Just make that if you do try to use Ryuk’s notebook that you don’t fall victim to his godly mindgames. Ryuk is likely to try to trick you into thinking that you stole a fake by posing with a fake himself and pretending to write into it with his neutral A. Don’t be fooled. Make sure you pay attention to the Death Notes as they go all about which ones to keep track of which is which. If you somehow have managed to lose track of this, wait 30 seconds before doing any hasty actions. See which Death Note causes signs of a heart attack.

SITUATIONALS

Ledge Attack – Spilt Liquid
Ryuk climbs up onto the ledge in a standard fashion and does a simple slash forward with average range and priority that does 9% and below average knockback. Very little lag on either end. However; if Ryuk doesn’t hit anybody with this, he’ll accidentally tear open a portal to the Shinigami Realm, causing a little bit of black liquid from his dair to drip onto the edge. Ryuk will proceed to close the portal with another slash, the liquid vanishing. If anybody comes to Ryuk during this time, both the foe and Ryuk will trip. This is very quick and isn’t horribly weak, but the ending lag can be above average if you miss as Ryuk takes the time to close the portal. The liquid vanishes after anyone trips over it/Ryuk closes the portal.

Ledge Attack (Wings) – Flying to the Moon
Ryuk performs the same ledge attacks no matter what his percentage, but still has two ledge attacks, varying on whether his wings are out or not. Ryuk kicks off the platform half a Battlefield platform away from the ledge, then quickly flies up to be triple Ganondorf’s height over the ledge. Ryuk’s body is an average priority hitbox as he kicks away that does 10% with average knockback until Ryuk starts flying up. This rises Ryuk up higher then his ledge jump, but takes a slight bit longer, still, this is much harder to punish then a simple ledge jump due to Ryuk being away from the edge as well as high above it.

Ledge Attack (Withdrawal) – Lemur Swing
When in withdrawal, Ryuk holds onto the ledge with his feet rather then his hands, hanging up-side down like a mad man. Upon being told to do a ledge attack, Ryuk swings back and forth for below average starting lag to gain some momentum, then in one mighty swing swings up onto the platform. This causes Ryuk to splat onto the ledge, his body being a high priority hitbox during the move that does 14% and above average knockback during the attack. Unfortunately, Ryuk has above average ending lag from the pain of smacking into the platform so hard. This is Ryuk’s strongest attack in withdrawal, though it’s generally beat out in practical situations for KOing by Ryuk’s withdrawal standard attack due to it having far less lag and not being a situational.

Rising Attack (On Stomach) – Rise of the Undead
Ryuk gets up on his feet quickly and hastily does a slash backwards without turning around, but does this so quickly that he nearly falls over on his back. Foes hit by this get knocked back with Ryuk with set tiny knockback and 5%. Ryuk then frantically flails upwards to keep from falling over, doing 5 hits of 1% and flinching (The last one doing weak knockback), coming back to his standard position. This all happens very quickly with little lag anywhere in the move. The priority of all the hits is horrible. The range of the first attack is average, but the other hits have bad range, though you’ll hit with them if you lured foes in with the first hit.

Rising Attack (On Back) – Skull Bash
This move has above average starting lag (Which is massive for a rising attack) as Ryuk rears back his head, it glowing slightly, as he slowly gets up, then he rams it upwards with great priority and average range for 16% and above average knockback. Ryuk has super armor during the start up of the attack while his head glows, but there’s also slight ending lag where Ryuk is vulnerable at the end, and it’s hard to perform this properly due to how situational of a button input it is.

Tripped Attack – Low Kick
Ryuk does a sweeping low kick as he gets up with minimal starting lag and below average ending lag with average range and bad priority that does 7% and trips the foe. For some strange reason, this move does 14% and average knockback on Jigglypuff. . .

Rising/Tripped Attack (Withdrawal) – Boot to the Head
Upon being told to do a rising/tripped attack while in his withdrawal state, Ryuk simply gets into his painful withdrawal crouching position and performs his dtilt. Nothing note worthy.

***​

EXTRAS

Extra Animations

Up Taunt – Metal Gear Solid 3: Worm Eater
Ryuk takes out an apple and goes to eat it like in his Juicy Apple special, but a worm comes out of the apple. Ryuk grabs the Ryuk inbetween two of his claw-like fingers and pulls it out of the apple, pocketing the apple away with his other hand. Ryuk lifts the worm over his head and opens his mouth up wide, tilting his head upwards, then drops it in. Disgusting.

Side Taunt – Badass Laughter
Name of the taunt says it all really. Ryuk lets out his signature badass chuckle, straight from the sub of Death Note. This is absolutely mandatory. This is also Ryuk’s Wiimote Noise.

Down Taunt – Eternal Boredom
Ryuk puts his hands on his hips and taps his foot, saying “I’m waiting.”.

Entrance - None
Due to Ryuk being invisible when the match first starts, you can’t see his theoretical entrance animation, thus he doesn’t have one.

Win Pose 1 – Killing the Light of the World
Ryuk chuckles as he writes in his Death Note and says “We eased each other’s boredom for a while. Well everybody, it’s been interesting.” as he does so. Ryuk then sprouts wings and flies off the top of the screen. If you leave the results screen on for 40 seconds, all the losers will die of heart attacks.

Win Pose 2 – Shinigami Restraint
Ryuk folds his arms and turns to the losers and says “Just be glad they force me to hold back for you pathetic humans.”.

Win Pose 3 – Lunch Break
Sidoh (The Shinigami from Ryuk’s dsmash) is present alongside Ryuk for this victor y pose. Ryuk is eating an apple while the bird-like Shinigami is eating a chocolate bar. Strange how gods of death find such fascination out of the most basic of foods, no?

Loss Pose - Withdrawal
Ryuk is in the crouching pose from his withdrawal, having his legs up and over his head. From this awkward position, Ryuk claps his feet together for the winner.

Icon – Shinigami Skull


Kirby Hat – Pink Doom
Kirby gains Ryuk’s hair, and far more importantly, the Shinigami eyes. Kirby gains the ability to use Ryuk’s Death Note with his Neutral B, giving him a much needed KO move, and better yet he doesn’t even need Ryuk to give him the ability to use the Death Note, as this gives him the Shinigami Eyes to use with the Death Note automatically. As if that wasn’t enough, this takes away one of Ryuk’s main ways of getting ahead in damage count early on through doubling Kirby’s damage percentage, as Ryuk can’t give Kirby Shinigami eyes if he already has them. Kirby will want to swallow Ryuk up ASAP to prevent him from being able to use Side B. Kirby has a good match up against Ryuk, largely due to this Kirby Hat.

Snake Codec Conversation

BEEP BEEP

PRESS SELECT

Snake:Colonel, who’s this weirdo? He’s some lanky goth with wild hair. . .
Colonel:That’s far from just some goth, Snake. His name is Ryuk, and he’s a Death God from the Shinigami Realm.
Snake:A Death God? Pfft. Like those exist…Wha?!? He. . .He just sprouted out some wings!
Colonel:I told you Snake, he’s real. You’ve already faced the King of Evil, is a Death God really that much of anything new to you?
Snake:I suppose you do have a point. . .But this guy is pretty weird for a Death God. He doesn’t seem to be taking this seriously at all. It’s like he’s just. . .doing it for laughs.
Colonel:Don’t underestimate him, Snake. What’s he doing?
Snake:Right now he’s looking straight at me. . .Eh, now he’s just taking out an apple and writing something down in a notebook. Doesn’t seem he’s hostile. Just on lunch break.
Colonel:Snake! Quickly! Take that notebook away from him now! You don’t have much time!
Snake:What are you talking about? He’s just- *Loud heartbeat noise*…………………………………………………….*Static*
Colonel:Snake? SNAKE! SNAKEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

-End Transmission-

Assist Trophy - Rem



Rem emerges from the assist trophy. “Humans are truly…disgusting creatures…”, he/she/it/potato says, looking over the players. Rem will simply oversee the fight awhile, doing absolutely nothing. However; if Rem’s summoner gets hit with a move that does high knockback, Rem will write down the name of her summoner into a Death Note. This will cause the same effect as Ryuk’s Death Note. Rem lasts 30 seconds or until her summoner is hit with a high knockback move. This will make foes scared to try to KO the summoner, or they’ll fall victim to the Death Note. Win-win situation. Upon writing down anybody’s name in the notebook, Rem will evaporate into a pile of sand. This becomes part of the terrain of the stage, creating a lump the size of Wario in the stage. The sand lasts 30 seconds.
 

Kiyosuki

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 23, 2008
Messages
367
You mean the Japanese poll that consisted of not too many people? Yeah, I agree with you about the rest though.

I think that if for some reason, the Mario series needed another rep, it would probably be Bowser Jr.


I think he'd make an awesome assist trophy, with aforementioned other 7, but I'm not so sure about an actual playable character. I mean...it's concievably possible, but I don't see him being a viable playable character because he just doesn't have this certain something. Leading presence is the best set of words I can think of to describe what I'm thinking. Almost every character in this has that...kinda major character presence you know what I mean? It's why not every character and his/her dog I think gets to be in these games and for probably good reason.
 

hippochinfat!!

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 21, 2008
Messages
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Toronto
I call Snake VS Ocelot on the Missouri. Pirate Ship be ****ed.
That would be epic.

They could even give some characters some of the cut characters movesets. Little Grey could get Diddy's moveset and Johnny could take Wario's down b (with diarehea instead of farting of course).

On a more serious note, Nintendo needs to bring back techs like L-cancelling. Why did they make the game have LESS depth on purpose?
 

Chief Mendez

Smash Master
Joined
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Messages
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Somewhere
I think we all need to shut up about how technically inferior/disappointing Brawl is.

Not only is this not the place for it (there are a lot out there though, if that is your thing), but it's seriously giving me a headache.

...

...So uh, Bowser Jr. as an AT? That works great for me; I've never really supported him as a full-blown PC, but as an AT...I think that status works best considering his ranking in the Mario hierarchy.

He could leap around the stage slathering paint across the ground, and as characters walked over it, they'd slowly be covered in the goop, which would reduce their traction/increase chances of random tripping.

To get rid of the gunk, you'd either submerge yourself in water, or travel really fast (run constantly for a while, get blown away by a powerful attack, etc.).
 

hippochinfat!!

Smash Lord
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Feb 21, 2008
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I think we all need to shut up about how technically inferior/disappointing Brawl is.

Not only is this not the place for it (there are a lot out there though, if that is your thing), but it's seriously giving me a headache.

...

...So uh, Bowser Jr. as an AT? That works great for me; I've never really supported him as a full-blown PC, but as an AT...I think that status works best considering his ranking in the Mario hierarchy.

He could leap around the stage slathering paint across the ground, and as characters walked over it, they'd slowly be covered in the goop, which would reduce their traction/increase chances of random tripping.

To get rid of the gunk, you'd either submerge yourself in water, or travel really fast (run constantly for a while, get blown away by a powerful attack, etc.).
We're supposed to suggest things for SSB4. I suggested adding more depth to the game since they took so much out for no good reason.

Did you just say INCREASE the chance on random tripping?! Are you saying tripping should be in SSB4!?
 

Chief Mendez

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 25, 2007
Messages
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Somewhere
We're supposed to suggest things for SSB4. I suggested adding more depth to the game since they took so much out for no good reason.
...Thereby putting Brawl's "competitive" aspect in question.

Feel free to ask for stuff like that, and even say you don't think Brawl's as competitive, but you basically just insulted the game. I personally think Brawl's plenty competitive--heck, even moreso than Melee--but that's not what we're discussing here.

Did you just say INCREASE the chance on random tripping?! Are you saying tripping should be in SSB4!?
Yes.

Not random, though. Only under certain conditions, such as on an icy or waterlogged platform, or if (as suggested above) your character is covered in slime.

It's a fun addition, but the total lack of forewarning is what really makes people hate it.
 

Muzga

Smash Ace
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
860
Location
Perth
Not sure if this has been discussed yet, But King K rool really deserves a place in SSB4
I know, i know. dk64 and anything that followed was terrible, but why can't they just go back to a more DKC-styled King.

Ive been thinking about it more and more, and there are a lot of cool things from dkc you could incorporate into the King's moveset.

Here's what i have in mind for a potential moveset.
We'll start off with the specials.

Neutral b: blunderbuss shot.
A projectile that moves straightly forward. The longer you charge it, the faster it travels. If you charge it for too long, the blunderbuss misfires and you can't use it for 10 seconds.
always hits for 8% (low knockback)

Down B: CANNONBALL!

Hold down+B! when you let go of down+B King K rool stomps on the ground! a cannonball falls from the top of the screen as it does in the boss battle at the end of DKC. You can charge this too, but the Length of the charge affects the size of the hitbox only. A good KO move. using the down b off the edge causes a small hop, but then for the king to hurtle straight downwards.
9%-20% (fully charged) (always has high knockback)

>B: the crown!
A weak projectile which moves forward half the nelgth of final destination, and then turns back and king k rool catches it. The crown moves quickly and does 3% damage.
K.Rool can't move while the crown is off his head. The crown is his majesty's source of power!
(barely noticable knockback)

^B: Floating tire.

One of those bouncy, floating tires from DKC materialises beneath King K Rool. The tire Stays in position and doesn't go away until it is bounced on 3 times. the third bounce is the strongest. King K rool can attack after using this recovery, but can't use it again until he touches the ground of the stage.
This move can also be used to gimp the opponent's recovery by bbouncing them towards the edge. the trajectory of the bounce depends on where you hit the tyre.
Enemies that hit the tyre when it materialises get hit for 10% damage
(medium knockback)

I cbf with the rest of this for now.
Twll me what you guys reckon so far.
I think K rool is very workable,
As long as they make his freaky eye normal, and make it come out/bloodshot only in his hurt animation:p
 

flyinfilipino

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 11, 2007
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The thing is is that smash isn't as high quality as we'd all like to think. Smash 64 and Melee were rushed, there was hardly any effort put in. There was virtually no single player content. What sold the game was the characters. You remove those characters, the game wouldn't be much better then superman 64, literally.

My main point is that Nintendo will NEVER stop making Smash games in the same fashion they won't stop making Mario spin offs. It's just stupid, it's a cash cow. Whetehr or not Sakurai comes back, they'll get someone else on board. If they run out of characters, they'll keep churning them out anywhere with obscure characters. No, they won't spam 3rd parties, because that would advertise the games of other companies. That development time could be spent putting in a character to advertise their own games! They're giving money away to the enemy! They can't stand for that, now can they? I was one of the poor saps who didn't know who Snake was prior to Brawl outside of a few references, and I've now played some of his games.

But I completely agree with you, Spire. Nintendo isn't dead as a company, but it's quality is turning into a thing of the past. I'm starting to regret not having gotten a 360, as Brawl lacks the five more characters, balance, and better online that would've made it a game for the ages. Don't say I'm a microsoft fanboy, as I HATE Halo with a passion, but there are simply more games over there catering to gamers. No platformers you say? Banjo Threeie's just around the corner. No fighters as good as Brawl? Soul Calibur 4 has better gameplay, especially competetively, just not having the epic crossovers. Heck, it has Vader and Yoda in it, so you can't deny it's totally absent of crossovers.
You say there was hardly any effort put in to Smash games before Brawl; what do you mean by that? Of course the familiar characters are selling the series, but what faults do you find outside of them as well? And who mentioned that it would be a good idea for Smash to end in the first place?

Smash Bros. is more than just an advertisement. The sales increase that comes with investigating an unknown Smash character is most likely minimal at best. (Geno would be advertising....) Did you playing some of Snake's games somehow keep you from playing Smash?

One last thing: Smash is totally different from most other fighters, even minus the Nintendo characters. As a Smash player, you should know that.

I think he'd make an awesome assist trophy, with aforementioned other 7, but I'm not so sure about an actual playable character. I mean...it's concievably possible, but I don't see him being a viable playable character because he just doesn't have this certain something. Leading presence is the best set of words I can think of to describe what I'm thinking. Almost every character in this has that...kinda major character presence you know what I mean? It's why not every character and his/her dog I think gets to be in these games and for probably good reason.
Yeah, he doesn't exactly have star appeal yet, but we'll see in the future.

Not sure if this has been discussed yet, But King K rool really deserves a place in SSB4
Where have you been? :)
 

flyinfilipino

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 11, 2007
Messages
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Smash 64 and Melee WERE rushed. Smash 64 is obvious, barely having any stages and virtually nothing in one player. Melee has the six obvious clones, the limited one player mode assuming you don't want to get all the trophies.
I got that, but you said there was hardly effort put in. If being rushed is only what you meant, then that's obvious, but if you mean something else, enlighten us. By the way, there were barely any characters in Smash 64 in the first place.
 

Chief Mendez

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 25, 2007
Messages
3,161
Location
Somewhere
MasterWarlord said:
And DK64 isn't crap, why do people hate on this game?
People don't like the game primarily because Rare really went overboard with all the stupid crap you had to collect, as well as all the pointless sidekicks (See: the Sonic series).

I suggested this before as a possibility of what might actually happen, but it was ignored. What would be your reaction if Pokemon Trainer was cut and Ridley was a clone of Charizard added last second to make Ridley fans happy/keep Sakurai from having to make him his own moveset?
I'd be angry, because of the three PT Pokemon, I like Charizard the least.

PT won't be leaving, though. He's one of the most unique characters in the game. The most they'll do is maybe change which Pokemon he commands.
 

MasterWarlord

Smash Champion
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Not wasting countless hours on a 10 man community
VILLIAN CROSSOVER FIGHTER

Characters:
Dr. Doom
Giovanni (Nidoking Golem Kangaskhan)
Robotnik
Bowser
Tom Nook
Jafar
Albert Wesker
Lex Luthor
Kefka
Vaati
Frieza
Dracula
Sho
Plankton
Sigma
Wario
I-No
Fawful
Envy
Dr. Wily
Vergil
General Grevious
Joker
Shao Khan
Nightmare
Thanos
Hazama
Astaroth
K. Rool
Dio Brando
Magus
Azula
Gideon Graves
Heihachi
M. Bison
Bass.EXE
Nappa
Sephiroth
Revolver Ocelot
Hades
Ryuk
Ganondorf
Cortex
Scarecrow
Psycho Mantis
King Dedede
Ridley
Green Goblin
Pennywise
The Facilier
Mecha Hitler
Van Grants
Pac-Man Ghosts
Mewtwo
Marik
Magneto
Yosemite Sam
Specter
Darth Vader
Margeret Moonlight
Mukuro
Dingodile
Xemnas
Jedah
Deathstroke
Grunty

Stages:

Bowser’s Castle, JJJ’s Office, Hogwarts Castle, Glados stage, Kronos stage, Hypnotoad Pet Show Stage, Scrap Brain Zone, Lexcorp, Lake of Rage, The White House, The Chum Bucket, Brinstar Depths, Pac Maze, 2Fort, Mt. Dedede, Gangplank Galleon, Arkham Aslyum, Namek, Wily’s Castle, Elemental Lighthouse (Golden Sun), Nookington’s, Gluttony’s Stomach, Wile E. Coyote Desert, Zasalamel’s Clock Tower, Asteroid M, Overlook Hotel, Tiny Tiger Gladiator Arena, Battle of Mt. Hyjal, Grunty’s Lair, Shadow Moses Island, Edward's Castle, Giygas stage, Death Star, Elephant Graveyard, Latveria, Underworld (Hercules), Bison’s Island, Somber Town, Halloween Town, Ganon's Tower
 

Chief Mendez

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 25, 2007
Messages
3,161
Location
Somewhere
What do you people think of extra characters included in alt costumes? Not just different clothes like Overall Wario, Dr. Mario, or Mr. L, but actually different characters. They'd still have the exact same body type as their host character, so no changes would be needed. Some examples below:

DK/Funky
Fox/James
Falco/Leon
Wolf/Panther
Captain Falcon/Blaziken
Samus/Dark Samus
Sword Ganondorf/Black Knight (FE)
Etc. . .
Generally, I think the consensus is that if they're willing to go so far as to make whole, complete character models like that, they might as well go the extra mile, tweak some damage modifiers and physics, and give us a whole 'nother character.

The only way pure costume changes like that would be a practical idea would be as DLC released after the game is.
 

MasterWarlord

Smash Champion
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Aug 24, 2008
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Not wasting countless hours on a 10 man community


ILLIDAN STORMRAGE

"Betrayer...in truth, it was I who was betrayed. Still, I am hunted. Still, I am hated. Now, my blind eyes see what others cannot. That sometimes the hand of fate must be forced!"

***

BACKGROUND

Illidan is the brother of Malfurion and a Night Elf Demon Hunter in his own right. He fought against the demons in their first invasion, though by unconventional means that others (possibly rightly) distrusted. He was imprisoned for recreating the Well of Eternity on the summit of Mount Hyjal, an action which the Night Elves believed would cause the demons to return. He was cursed by Sargeras which left him "blind" but still able to see all magical properties around living or non-living objects. After being released from his prison 10,000 years later by Tyrande Whisperwind, he consumed enormous power from the Skull of Gul'dan, and transformed into a demon to defeat an all powerful Dreadlord known as Tichondrius. Illidan went on to try to destroy the remaining Undeads and Demons, but was consistently hunted by the Night Elves he originally intended to help. Forming new allies in the Naga and Blood Elves, Illidan became the leader of his own army.

STATS

Size: 11/10
Illidan’s main humanoid body is slightly smaller then Ganondorf’s, but his horn increase his height considerably to be a head taller then Ganondorf. In addition, his wings behind him can also be hit just like his main body, increasing his width to be slightly larger then even Bowser’s. Illidan is truly massive, dwarfing most characters, and would probably be around the same size as Ridley if he were in Brawl. Illidan being such insanely good combo food is among his biggest disadvantages.

Weight: 6.5/10
While powerful, Illidan isn’t nearly as heavy as the other power oriented characters. This is mainly due to his size coming from his wings and horns.

Walking Speed: 8/10
Illidan regularly travels long distances, he doesn’t do much dilly dallying.

Running Speed: 6.5/10
While among the faster runners, Illidan isn’t spectacular in this department.

Traction: 3/10
Despite being badass, Illidan’s size coupled with his large wings and horns tend to get in his way a lot.

Power: 8.5/10
Despite not being all that heavy, Illidan’s power still is perfectly in line with his massive size.

Attack Speed: 2/10
Illidan’s days as an agile Night Elf are long past. While Demon Hunters such as Illidan are initially agility based, they gain more strength then agility as they become more powerful, much less if they turn into a half demon.

Range: 6.5/10
Illidan’s moves rarely go below average in range, but they rarely go above average either. Illidan’s range is fairly standard for a sizable heavy hitter.

Priority: 9.5/10
Illidan has plenty of moves which count as grabs as well as disjointed ones, and his other moves which are more normal generally have good priority. Illidan can out prioritze nearly any attack with practically any of his own attacks.

First Jump: 5/10
Nothing too special. Illidan’s size prevents him from gaining much ground.

Extra Jump: 10/10
Illidan has a ridiculous EIGHT extra jumps. While they’re only as good as Charizard’s pathetic mid-air jumps, the sheer quantity of them is amazing.

Recovery: 7/10
While Illidan has eight extra jumps, his up special doesn’t help him gain any extra ground. However; Illidan’s up special does make it much harder to gimp him, helping his recovery to be above average.

Fall Speed: 6.5/10
Illidan doesn’t fall quite as quickly as the other heavyweights, but it’s still up there. Illidan’s reduced falling speed allows him to actually have a decent air game, but it’s not fantastic.

Crouch: 8/10
Illidan furls up his wings and brings them down to his sides as he gets down on all fours, greatly reducing his otherwise massive size.

Glide: 1/10
While it’s rare for a character to have a glide at all, Illidan’s glide is inferior to that of the other characters, not helping him in his recovery. It’s duration is very short, and Illidan turns very slowly/awkwardly while gliding. This makes Charizard’s glide look good.

Crawl:No
Hover:No
Wall jump:No
Wall cling:Yes

BASIC ACTIONS/ANIMATIONS

Standard Pose:
Illidan stands tall with his wings fully extended, holding a blade in each hand, ready to strike.

Idling:
Illidan puts his hands behind his head and tightens the blindfold over his eyes.

Walking:
Illidan walks in a normal fashion, though rather slowly.

Running:
Same as above, but Ilidan picks up the pace.

Dashing:
Illidan leans forward, moving his legs slightly faster.

Crouching:
Illidan gets down onto all fours like an animal, staying close to the ground. Illidan furls up his wings and brings them to his sides, greatly reducing his size. He’d be able to crouch under projectiles like Snake if not for those annoying horns sticking up.

First Jump:
Illidan gathers strength in his feet before hopping up with all his force, standing perfectly straight, somewhat like Ganon’s dair. It takes a lot of effort with his large size.

Extra Jumps:
A simple flap of Illidan’s wings, like the multiple jumps of Meta Knight or Pit.

Shield:
Illidan furls up his wings around himself and puts own his blades in a defensive position as the usual bubble shield forms.

Spot Dodge:
Illidan lifts up one leg as he leans into the background, flapping his wings slightly to keep himself from falling over backwards, then comes out of it. Very quick without a horrendously low duration, unlike Dedede’s. One of the better spot dodges.

Roll:
Illidan flaps his wings in the opposite direction you told him to roll, propelling himself in the direction you did tell him to roll. Somewhat laggy for a roll but covers an above average distance.

Air Dodge:
Illidan leans far back into the background, then flaps his wings rapidly to get back up into his standard aerial position. Awkwardly long duration for an air dodge with a bit of ending lag.

Asleep:
Illidan lies on his stomach, covering himself up with his wings as he slumbers.

Dizzy:
Illidan drops his blades and gets on his knees, holding his horns as he bucks his head about, seemingly in pain.

Wall Cling:
Illidan impales his horns into the wall to hang from it. Bad starting and ending lag for a wall cling, but Illidan can hold the position longer then most.

***

MOVESET

SPECIALS

Neutral Special - Immolation



Illidan turns to face the screen and claps his two blades in front of him. This has average starting lag but no ending lag. After doing this, a circle of flame comes around Illidan. . .And never goes away. You can disspell the flame by using your neutral special again.

When Illidan is sorrounded by fire, he takes 1% damage per second, but anyone within a character distance of Illidan is also vulnerable to damage. Foes can take 3 hits of 1% per second from this. This can really help Illidan rack up damage, but if he uses it carelessly he'll take damage due to not being up against the foe. Only activate this when you intend to be up in your foe's face or grab them. You can't just casually activate and deactivate Immolation due to the lag, so actual thought is required to minimize the damage done to yourself.

Side Special - Sleep



Illidan grabs both his blades in one hand so he has one free, then does a wiggling motion with it as a sound of passing out as heard (The same one as when the Dreadlord casts sleep in Warcraft 3.). This has lag on both ends, but it's below average. The hitbox for this move is inbetween a Battlefield platform and half of Battlefield away from Illidan, being around the size of Wario. If anybody is at this location, they will fall asleep. Once you've hit with this, activate Immolation then go up and grab your foe. You've got all the time in the world to do so unless your foe is at a low percentage, say under 40%.

This can make foes fall asleep in the air, and they'll drop until they button mash out of the sleep. This can be used to gimp from the safety of the stage, but foes will button mash out of the sleep far too easily at low percentages.

Up Special - Mana Burn



Illidan turns to face the screen and claps his blades together up above his head. A bolt of lightning will start going upwards at the rate of Din's Fire (Slow but slowly increasing) for as long as you hold B, and Illidan will also levitate in place. The lightning bolt does nothing whatsoever and is merely for visual effect. Upon releasing B, an explosion the size of Wario occurs at the end of the lightning. The explosion is disjointed and does 13% with above average knockback. If you don't release B, the maximum the lightning bolt will go is the same as Din's Fire before letting out it's explosion automatically.

This does NOT cause Illidan to go into his helpless state, but has average starting and ending lag to prevent you from stalling in mid-air with it. This is mainly used to get rid of those annoying edge hoggers, and you can then recover with your mass extra jumps. This can potentially be used to stop enemy approaches, but it's lag makes it rather predictable.

Against foes with mana, such as Arthas or Shaman (By Vaul in MYM 3), this move will cause them to lose 20 of their mana. This can't be spammed to burn their mana due to the lag, but you'll want to use this whenever given the chance for a free hit on one of these enemies. If you use this on an enemy Illidan, they'll be unable to use Immolation for 30 seconds.

Down Special - Dragon Egg
Illidan stomps down his feet as they glow with some sort of green energy, summoning a dragon egg. This has below average start up lag and no ending lag.

This does nothing at first, the egg just sitting there. The egg is around Wario's size, and cannot be picked up. However; the egg CAN be attacked, having a small 25 stamina. Illidan can only have one egg out at a time.

Pressing down B when you already have an egg will cause your egg to hatch. The longer you wait before hatching the egg, the more matured the creature inside it will of become, being more powerful. Either a Snap Dragon or a Dragon Turtle will come out of the egg to aid you in battle. The max you can let your dragon creatures mature for is 30 seconds, but it's near impossible to reach that high. Below are the various properties of the Snap Dragons/Dragon Turtles.

If Illidan so chooses, he can play defensively next to the egg, his playstyle aimed towards defense anyway. Should Illidan choose to use this approach, he can activate Immolation next to the Dragon Egg to help nurture the creature growing in the egg by warming it, healing them by 3% per second.

If you make an egg, you need to have every intention of staying close to it. If you abandon your egg and the foe cracks it open, the creature inside it won't be fully formed and the foe can feast on the "scrambled eggs" to heal themselves of 8% damage.

Dragon Turtle:



Dragon Turtles can be as small as Squirtle, or potentially slightly bigger then Bowser himself with a full 30 seconds to mature. Dragon Turtles prefer to stay at a distance and use projectiles and will only advance towards the foe when they're out of their projectile range, probably due to their slow movement speed, as slow as Bowser's walk. Despite this, Dragon Turtles have some powerful close up attacks when allowed to mature. . .The turtle will use one attack every 2 seconds it's in range. The minimum turtle health is 5 while the max is 35.

Attacks:

Rock Hurl:
The Dragon Turtle spits forward a rock. This is it's default attack in Warcraft 3. This is the only attack you can be assured that your turtle will have no matter how early you hatch it. With 10 seconds for the turtle to grow in the egg, this has the range of a Battlefield platform. It can be as low as no range at all based on the turtle's maturity, making it essentially useless, or it can be the range of all Final Destination for an adult turtle. The rock slowly increases to the size of a party ball as the turtle matures, and can do up to 17% damage with above average knockback at max maturity. For, say, 10 seconds of maturity, it will do 10% with merely below average knockback, and a bare minimum of 2% and flinching.

Whirling Fortress: When the turtle has been given 12 seconds to mature, it will gain this attack. This functions just like Bowser's up special of the same name, and the turtle will attempt the attack when a foe is half a Battlefield platform away from it. At the minimum, this attack is around twice as laggy as Bowser's up B, but at max charge it's even faster.

Spiked Carapace:



When the turtle has been given 18 seconds to mature, it gains this attack. Basically just like the last attack, but the attack in question this time is Bowser's usmash, which the turtle will use when foes approach the turtle from the air. The turtle will always have spikes on it's back if it is allowed to grow this long. This is the first notably powerful attack your turtle will gain, but it's very hard to get it to survive this long.

Spike Fortress: When the turtle has been given 24 seconds to mature, it gains this attack. Just like the previous two attacks, blah blah, but this time the turtle gets Bowser's dsmash. The turtle will only use this attack when foes are right up against it. This move gives the turtle good KOing ability.

Mother's Babies: If the turtle is given a full 30 seconds to reach adulthood, it will become a mother. This does nothing for the most part, but once the turtle goes down two babies Dragon Turtles will spawn in it's place. While they aren't matured at all, it's a nice bonus.

Snap Dragon:



Infant Snap Dragons are only as tall as a crouching Kirby and are only as wide as the pink puffball. Once reaching adulthood, though, Snap Dragons can potentially be almost as long as a Battlefield Platform and reaching Kirby's full height. While the basic attack of Snap Dragons is a projectile like Dragon Turtles, once they gain other attacks they'll prefer to run up to their foe to attack at melee range rather then camping. Snap Dragons are much faster then the turtles, having a minimum of Bowser's running speed and a max of Meta Knight's. Unlike Dragon Turtles, Snap Dragons also have a single jump the height of Falco's (Who has the best first jump in the game) to chase after you. Snap Dragons attack once per 1.5 seconds, and their health can be anywhere from 1-20. Yeah, they're pretty delicate.

Attacks:

Venom Spit:
The Snap Dragon spits forward a small poisonous projectile the size of a gooey bomb. The projectile travels half of Battlefield before vasishing, being unaffected by gravity like the fireballs of Mario and Luigi. An infant Snap Dragon's projectile only does 1% and not even so much as a flinch. . .With 1 stamina, infants are completely and utterly useless. There is zero point in instantly hatching a Dragon Egg. Anyway, if the Snap Dragon is more matured, it can deal up to 15% additional poison damage. . .Over 15 more seconds. Poison effects do not stack.

Venom Stream: The Snap Dragon gains this attack rather early on with only 10 seconds of being in the egg. The Snap Dragon will only use this attack if the foe is off the stage and out of melee range. With above average starting lag, it will spew forward some poisonous acid in the same quantities as Mario's fully charged FLUDD. This obviously assists Illidan in gimping the foe, but does no damage.

Venomous Bite: The Snap Dragon gains this halfway on it's level to adulthood at 15 seconds of being in the egg. The Snap Dragon comes up to the foe and takes a quick bite out of the foe's flesh for small range and decent priority. This attack has non existant starting lag, and with the Snap Dragon's running speed this can make it quite annoying to deal with as it comes into your face hastily to use this attack. This has the same properties as Venom Spit and gets powered up at the same rate, but this actually does average knockback.

Venom Choke: The Snap Dragon can use this attack after being in the egg for 20 seconds before Illidan hatches it. The Snap Dragon gets up on it's hind legs to decrease it's width and increase it's height massively, then tries to grab the foe with it's front legs. This counts as a grab. This has pretty bad start up lag, but no punishable ending lag as the Snap Dragon falls back down to it's feet if it misses. Should the Snap Dragon grab someone, it will put it's mouth inside the foe's and rapidly hurl out acid, damaging at at insane rate of 10% per second and leaving the foe poisoned for the same amount of time as it's Venom Spit attack. Button mashing is required to escape like any other grab. This is an insane damage dealer, but your foe is a fool if he lets the Snap Dragon get this close to adulthood anyway, and even then the attack is rather telegraphed.

Mother's Babies: This is just like the Dragon Turtle's "attack" of the same name. By reaching adulthood the Snap Dragon has become a mother, and will spawn babies once it dies. While Snap Dragons are much less useful then Dragon Turtles as infants, a whopping 5 infants will spawn from a mother's corpse.

Phoenix:



What?!? There's a THIRD monstrosity that can spawn from the eggs? But you didn't mention that earlier! I thought I was finally done with the specials! **** you Warlord!

To make a Phoenix come out of your Dragon Egg, you have to activate Immolation next to it. What? I thought that healed the egg! Yes, but if you stand next to the egg with Immolation active for 5 seconds straight, the Dragon Egg to turn into a Phoenix Egg, indicated by it turning red and gaining a fiery aura.

Upon opening a Phoenix Egg, the Phoenix will come rushing to Illidan wherever he is, doing 5% fire damage and mediocre knockback to anything it touches on the way. The Phoenix cannot be attacked, being completely invincible, and is around the width of a Battlefield platform but only as tall as Kirby no matter how long you leave it in the egg. Once the Phoenix reaches Illidan, it'll go under Illidan's legs and he can ride it as a recovery, albeit he'll take 2% per second due to the sheer heat of the thing.

Illidan can be knocked off the Phoenix with any half decent attack, and his only means of attack while riding the Phoenix is to push A to cause the Phoenix to launch a fiery projectile forward. It goes forward a Battlefield platform and is the size of Kirby, dealing 8% fire damage and below average knockback to anything it touches. You can't move and shoot at the same time and this has average start up lag, so only use it when you need to defensively to recover (The move's obvious use - seeing Illidan's up special doesn't let him actually recover).

The phoenix will last 5 seconds after it comes out of the egg before turning into a Phoenix Egg once more. If you're still on the way recovering, the egg will fall down into the Abyss, but if you do recover the egg will be there waiting for you to use as a recovery once more. . .If your foe doesn't destroy it. Your egg's health renews every time the Phoenix turns back into one, so if you defend your egg well enough you could potentially use this as a recovery many times - provided you can set it up in the first place, that is.

STANDARDS

Standard Attack – Demon Slash



This is the basic attack of Illidan and all other generic Demon Hunters in Warcraft 3. First Illidan does a casual slash forwards with minimal starting lag and very slight ending lag that reaches out a below average distance with disjointed priority, dealing 5% and a stun. Upon the second press of A, Illidan spins around and slashes foes with both of his blades for little lag on either end. The first disjointed blade slash as Illidan spins does 5% and more hitstun, having only tiny range. The second disjointed blade slash as Illidan spins does 6% with below average knockback and decent range. It’s very hard to hit foes with the tiny range of the first part of the second hit, but the rest of the move is easy to go through. If you do hit with all parts of the move, this does an impressive 16%. The best time to interrupt the move is after Illidan does the first basic slash.

Dashing Attack - Bull Charge
Illidan lowers his head so that his long horns point forwards and keeps running forwards for as long as you hold A. Illidan’s running speed is slightly increased here. Upon releasing A, Illidan headbutts his horns upwards, having good range, disjointed priority and dealing 10% damage and average (Close to above average) knockback. Illidan headbutts up with very little lag, but there is notable ending lag. This can be used to travel the stage faster, but is bad as an approach, as once you start the attack your options are incredibly limited.

TILTS

Forward Tilt – Hitting ‘em while they’re down
This is a two part ftilt like Snake’s, where you can hit A shortly after the first attack to perform a second attack. The first part of the move has Illidan raise a blade over his head for below average starting lag, then slam it down in front of him with above average range and disjointed priority. If foes are too close to Illidan, they might be able to avoid it, particularly if they’re small. The slam down knocks foes to the ground but deals no other knockback, just 9%.

For the next part of the move, Illidan swings his other blade to smack the foe away with above average knokback and 12% with the same range and priority as the first hit. This has average start up lag and slight ending lag. It’s very unlikely you’ll hit foes with the second hit if you didn’t hit with the first, but this has KO potential, and when combined with the first hit does a ridiculous 21%. Think Snake’s ftilt, but a lot laggier and less broken.

Up Tilt – Totem Pole
Illidan turns to face the screen, then lifts up his blades above his head. Illidan’s blades and horns all become disjointed hitboxes here, and Illidan stays in this stance as long as you hold A. Illidan has below average lag coming or out of this stance. Contact with either of the blades does 5% and weak set knockback into the horns, while the horns do 10% and average upward knockback. Excellent for stopping approaches and completely defends Illidan from above.

Down Tilt – Wing Propellers
Illidan extends out his wings slightly, them normally being furled up against him when crouched, but still keeps them low to the ground to keep his hurtbox relatively small. This creates a small gust of wind behind Illidan that pushes foes back slightly, and if any foes are directly behind Illidan they take 6% with small knockback. This also propels Illidan forward very slightly. However, Illidan can spam this attack many times in succession, able to use it 10 times in a single second. Illidan could potentially hit foes at low percentages with this multiple times. This would be a great damage racker if the move didn’t try so hard to separate the foe from Illidan by propelling him forwards and foes backwards, though against a wall it could net a nice 30% or so. Illidan goes faster and faster the more he uses this move in succession, potentially able to go as fast as Sonic if he uses it enough. This can be used as an alternative to running, but it takes Illidan a good bit to get going and is only notably useful on stages like Bridge of Eldin.

SITUATIONALS

Ledge Attack – Spinning Wings

Illidan flaps up Ganondorf’s height above the ledge, then spins around in place to hit foes with his wings. Every time one of his wings comes around it does 8% and below average knockback. It’s very unlikely you’ll hit with this multiple times unless the foe is at very low percentages. There are a total of 6 hits dealt over a rather lengthy second and a half, after which Illidan will fall back down and regrab the ledge. This ledge attack doesn’t actually allow you to climb onto the ledge, unlike more standard ones.

Ledge Attack Over 100% - Blade Toss
Illidan tosses his blades one by one onto the platform as he slowly climbs up. This defends Illidan quite well as he comes up, though the duration of the attack is quite long. Each blade deals 7% and below average knockback. Illidan is vulnerable at the end of the attack though as he picks up his blades again, the move having notable ending lag.

Rising Attack (Either Side) – Gust

Illidan covers himself with his huge wings, then spreads them out to create a strong gust of wind on either side of him to blow foes away. Gusts of winds are blown in the direction Illidan is facing, being as strong as Dedede’s neutral special in reverse, but with double the range range. Little starting or ending lag, but the attack has an above average duration for the gust of wind to take place. This does no damage.

Tripped Attack – Bucking Bronco
Illidan bucks his head around violentely as he gets up in completely random directions. Contact with Illidan’s flailing horns as he does this does 10% and average knockback. This has no start up or ending lag, but has a second long duration, and the randomness of it doesn’t make it particularly reliable.

SMASHES

Forward Smash – Guillotine
Illidan first claps his blades together in front of himself with above average range, counting as a grab. This part of the smash attack comes out very fast with little starting lag. Next, Illidan slams his head downwards to hit any foes he’s captured with his massive horns after massive wind up lag, dealing 22% and high knockback uncharged and 30% with ridiculously high knockback fully charged, then also suffers large wind down lag to boot. While this is easy to hit with, if you don’t hit foes with the initial grab you’re going to be MASSIVELY punished, with an enemy’s fully charged fsmash. Also, even if you do hit the foe with it, if they have a low percentage they’ll probably be able to survive it and come back to punish you due to the ridiculous lag. This is to be used strictly as a KO move, and even then, it’s too laggy to use outside one on one where other foes can interrupt it.

Up Smash - Grabbing by the Horns
Illidan does a jerking motion upward, impaling foes on his horns. This has little start up lag, but is slightly punishable if you miss due to below average but noteworthy ending lag. The horns reach out about Mario's height above Illidan, and it counts as a grab. How so? Should you hit anyone with this move, they'll be impaled on Illidan's horns. You can then rapidly rotate the control stick to gain momentum as you spin your horns around for 3 seconds. The more you spin the control stick around, the more knockback the attack will have after the 3 second period, where Illidan will fling the foe upward. Charging only increases the damage dealt, it able to be anywhere from 17-24%. The average ratio of knockback for a good control stick rotater would be high, making this a fine KO move for Illidan. This is an amazing anti aerial move, but Illidan is still vulnerable from his sides and this move takes far too long to ever use in a FFA.

Down Smash – Heightened Senses
Illidan sits down and crosses his legs, bows his head, and folds his arms (Still holding his blades) as he charges. He’s toning out all his other senses as much as possible, and with him already being blind, this increases his other senses even more-so. Upon releasing the charge, Illidan uncrosses his legs and gets back up with above average lag, begging to be punished. What the hell?

If anyone comes within the distance of a Battlefield platform of Illidan as he’s “charging” the Smash Attack, he’ll teleport behind them and slash them with both of his blades. This is disjointed due to Illidan striking with his blades, has average range, and comes out nearly instantly, though it has slight ending lag. It does 17% and above average knockback uncharged and up to 24% and high knockback fully charged. This is an excellent defensive tool, KO option, and good for catching foes off guard, but if a foe predicts it they can power shield and punish you. Better yet, a foe can get out of the range of the dsmash as you enter the stance and wait for you to come out of the stance to punish you horribly. This is very tempting to use often, but it’ll become horribly predictable and your bane if overused due to the potential for being punished it has.

AERIALS

Neutral Aerial – Elemental Orb



Illidan raises both of his hands above his head and holds them up there as an orb of venom appears and circles around him. This has little starting lag or ending lag, but has a slightly lengthy duration of three quarters of a second. The orb is the size of Kirby and is disjointed. Contact with the orb does minor knockback, but a massive 15% damage. . .Over 30 seconds from poison. Hitting an already poisoned foe with this will simply renew the poison.



If Illidan is immolated when he uses his nair, though, the orb will be an orb of fire rather then an orb of venom. While this still does the same low knockback as the venom orb, the 15% damage is all done in one hit rather then from a slow working poison.

Forward Aerial - Cloud



Illidan rapidly clangs his blades together in front of him, making a cloud of blue fog in front of himself. This takes a full 1.5 seconds, making it rather laggy. The cloud of fog is around the size of Bowser, and floats where it was created for 8 seconds before vanishing into mist. You can have as many clouds up as you want, but considering they last for such short periods of time it's rather pointless. This does no damage, but foes who go into the cloud will be unable to use their specials. This means you can predict where your foe will use their up special, then create a cloud there to prevent them from being able to do so. if Illidan uses this in the air, he’ll flap his wings rapidly to stay in place. Due to how laggy the move is, you can’t use it when a foe is recovering, and instead must use it in advance where you think they’re going to recover.

Back Aerial - Doom



Illidan both blades in his left hand, then turns around and reaches out with his now free right hand behind him with average range. Illidan turns his whole body around in the process, making him face the opposite direction like Marth’s bair. This has average starting lag and the ending lag is also quite notable if you miss with the move. Should Illidan’s hand come into contact with anyone, he’ll grab them, the move counting as a grab, then quickly cast a spell on them before releasing them. The target will be “doomed” for the next 7 seconds, taking 1% damage per second. This on it’s own is far from notable considering how dangerous the attack is to use, but if the target gets KOd while under the effects of Doom, a Doom Guard will be summoned.



The Doom Guard appears on the same platform as the foe when they respawn from being KOd, towering over them. The Doom Guard will use one of it’s four abilities or a basic attack before vanishing and letting the foe continue as normal. It is impossible to dodge the attack the Doom Guard does on you, and you’ll be forced off the respawn platform instantly with no invincibility frames from coming off the platform.

Burning Sword: The Doom Guard’s basic physical attack. This simply does 17% fire damage and above average knockback.

War Stomp:



The Doom Guard stomps on the platform, spiking the foe down to the ground underneath the respawn platform for 12% damage. Once they hit the ground, they’ll be in their dizzy state from the force of the stomp, stunned. This gives you 12% and a free chance to get in a good hit.

Dispel Magic:



The Doom Guard casts a spell on the foe that makes purple energy pulsate through them. For the next 15 seconds, they will be unable to use special moves. On some characters such as Marth this is near meaningless, but on others it can have a more notable effect.

Cripple:



The Doom Guard casts a spell on the foe that makes red energy pulsate through them. This lasts 15 seconds, and during this time the foe’s movement and attack speed are slowed by 25%. This makes speedy characters lose their advantage and slow characters nearly defenseless.

Rain of Fire:



The Doom Guard raises up it’s sword, causing fireballs to rain down on the victim. This does multiple hits of up to a massive 26%, but with good DI it’s possible to get out with as little as 8%. This takes place over 3 seconds, giving Illidan plenty of time to smack the foe out of the fire if he so wishes.

You’ll only be wanting to use the bair when your foe is at a high percentage and you know you can finish them in an instant. Trying to go out of your way to hit with this move may cause trouble, though, so it’s not always worth it. The best time to aim for using this move is when a foe already isn’t going to make it out on the platform, so you can doom them before they fall to their death. Using doom on a foe does NOT give them back their extra jumps/up special. Against Illidan, if you know you’ll be unable to recover, just accept your fate so Illidan can’t doom you to make your next stock go off to a bad start.

Up Aerial – Unholy Frenzy



Illidan turns his head to face the sky, looking straight up to the sky with nearly no lag on either end. During this time, his eye becomes very crazy, resembling the one in the picture. This has tiny range above Illidan. This move ignores whatever the foe is doing, not knocking them out of their move, but also unable to be outprioritized. Should a foe be hit, one of their eyes will turn crazy like the one in the picture as they go into the unholy frenzy. They’ll attack 10% faster, but take 1% damage per second for the rest of the match, it never wearing off. If Illidan doesn’t hit anyone with this move, though, he’ll get the effects of it, going under the unholy frenzy.

Only one player can be under the effects of unholy frenzy at a time per Illidan. If you’re hit by Unholy Frenzy though, all is not lost. Your uair is replaced with this attack, and you can use it to pass off the effects of unholy frenzy to somebody else. This means that this is a prime attack to use on people with otherwise good uairs, such as Wario.

Down Aerial – Condemning to the Abyss
Illidan slowly crosses his arms and raises them above his head, holding his blades in either hand. This has a ridiculous one and a half second start up lag. Illidan will then uncrosses his arms as he slashes down in an X formation with both blades, dealing 21% with average range, disjointed priority and spiking foes downwards as powerfully as Ganondorf’s dair, the definition of spiking. This –would- be utterly unusable due to the lag, but you can hold A for Illidan to stay at the part of the move before he does the actual attack. This gives the move a lot more mind game potential. While still not as good as Illidan’s other aerials at gimping, it’s still an option.

THROWS

Grab - Blind Grasp
Illidan grabs the blade in his right hand with his left hand, then reaches out with his now free right hand to grab the enemy. Should Illidan grab anyone, he'll hold them by the neck tightly. Of particular note is that if the foe is asleep, Illidan will grab them more lightly so as to not awaken them, and their sleep timer is reset upon being grabbed. This is laggier then the average grab, but not terrible, and has the same unholy range of Dedede's grab. However; Illidan is very bad at dashing grabs. . .

Pummel - Strangle
Illidan simply strangles the enemy, there being neck snapping sounds like Snake's pummel. This is one of the fastest pummels and it's quite powerful at 3% a pop, giving Illidan an excellent grab game, much less with coupled with Sleep and Immolation.

Forward Throw - Bloodlust



Illidan rapidly starts biting into the flesh of the victim with vampiric fangs. It seems that half demon part of Illidan is a Dreadlord. . .

Illidan does 4 bites into the foe, each dealing 1% damage to the foe and healing him of 1%, before letting the victim go. This is generally inferior to your down throw in that it heals less and deals less damage, but at least you don’t have to put the foe to sleep, right?

But that’s not all. Each time you use this throw, Illidan’s bloodlust is increased from his previous sample and he’ll more savegely attack the foe when using this throw. Each time you use this throw, Illidan does 2 more bites, healing himself for 2% more and dealing 2% more damage to the foe with each use. This can potentially max out at an impressive 16%, the same amount as Dedede’s unholy bthrow while also healing you for 16% in the process. Nice! However; if you don’t use this throw for 30 seconds, Illidan’s bloodlust will settle down and it’ll revert back to the normal form. If you do use this, you’ll be using it a lot to build up Illidan’s bloodlust, then just as much to keep his bloodlust in tact.

Back Throw – Vice Grip

Illidan releases his grasp on the foe and gets back into his normal stance very quickly, then joins both of his two blades together around the foe to trap them in a bladed hulahoop of sorts. The effects of the throw depend on the size of the enemy. If the foe is very large, they’ll get suffocated as they get squeezed within the small space. Bowser, for example, would take a ridiculous 16% damage, the same amount as Dedede’s unholy bthrow. However, a smaller character around Lucario’s size would only take 8%. Exceptionally small characters such as Kirby or Jigglypuff are too small for the blades to even constrict them at all, them able to get out of the throw early and punish Illidan as he goes through the whole animation. If the foe takes any damage, they always get knocked to the ground.

Up Throw – Seismic Toss
Illidan drops both of his blades and grabs the victim in a bear hug, then flies up double Ganondorf’s height. Illidan then crashes into the ground, letting the foe go to do 10% great vertical knockback for a throw, above average by normal standards. The throw has a very long duration, particularly as Illidan bends down to pick up his dropped blades after the main throw is complete. This is Illidan’s only throw that does any form of knockback, and it thankfully has KO potential. Unfortunately, it’s nearly unusable in free for alls due to the horrible lag.

Down Throw - Dream Eater
Illidan drops both of his blades, then places both his hands on the victim's head. Normally, this throw does nothing and the foe can move instantly and punish Illidan, who has horrible ending lag. What the hell?

However; if the victim is asleep, five glowing orbs of darkness will come up out of the victim's head per second and surge into Illidan. Each orb deals 1% to the victim as it comes out of them, and heals 1% as it goes into Illidan. This throw will keep going on until the victim wakes up, at which point Illidan will hastily pick up his blades and leap backwards (He won't go off any edges) as the foe drowsily gets up.

FINAL SMASH

Final Smash - Metamorphis



The Demon Hunter turns into a massive demon! Just a tad bit ironic, no? Less so for Illidan, considering he’s now only half Night Elf and half demon.

Illidan’s demon form is around triple his normal height and double his width, making him truly massive. Unlike the normal transformation in Warcraft 3, Illidan keeps his demon hunter blades while in demon form. Illidan’s moveset in this form remains largely unchanged, but his moves have absurd range due to his new size and are 1.5X as powerful. Illidan also has infinite midair jumps with his now truly massive wings. This lasts 20 seconds, but Illidan is perfectly vulnerable during this time. While his weight is 1.5X heavier and he has infinite recovery, if he’s at an absurd percentage before he uses his final smash he could still possibly be KOd.

Several of Illidan’s moves have rather notable changes during his final smash.

Neutral Special – Chaos Shot



When under the effects of the final smash, Immolation will always be up, and it won’t do any damage to yourself. Due to this passive bonus, Illidan gets a new neutral B. It’s the basic attack Demon Hunters use when in demon form in Warcraft 3, Illidan included. Illidan reels his body back, the launches it forward to make a large fiery rock shoot forward. Average starting and ending lag, but the fiery rock is the size of Bowser and goes forward at the speed of the Koopa King’s run, unaffected by gravity. Upon contact with anyone, the insanely high priority projectile explodes, dealing 20% fire damage and high knockback. Illidan must wait for his current “chaos shot” to explode before firing another.

Down Special – Demonic Portal
Rather then laying an egg, Illidan summons a demonic portal. The portal functions just like the egg in that you can only have one out at a time and that the creature within it will get stronger the longer you leave it inside the portal without opening it. The portal’s health is buffed to 50 from the egg’s mere 25. The portal/creatures summoned from it will last even after the main final smash is over, as otherwise this move would be rather useless. There is only one creature that can be summoned from the portal, which is a Felhound.

Felhound:



Newly spawned Felhounds are only the size of Ivysaur, but upon becoming fully matured they can become as long as Ganondorf as is tall and just as tall as the Gerudo Warlock. Felhounds easily outclass Snap Dragons and Dragon Turtles in being adept at both long range and short range combat. Felhounds move about very quickly at Captain Falcon’s running speed. Felhounds share the ability to jump with Snap Dragons, jumping up as high as Falco’s first jump. Snap Dragons attack once every second, and their stamina can be anywhere from 15-60 based off how long they spent in the portal. Felhounds are very aggressive and will constantly run towards their master’s enemies unless they’re off-stage, in which case they’ll wait at the ledge. When it comes time to attack, they’ll use the move in their arsenal with the smallest range that can still connect at the current distance the hound is from the enemy.

Attacks:

Chomp:




The felhound does a simple bite forward, having minimal range but good priority. This does as little as 7% and low knockback but up to a potential 24% with huge knockback. While very powerful and this has little to no warning of when it’s going to occur, if you keep even the slightest distance from the Felhound this probably won’t hit you.

Firebolt: The Felhound gains this attack after spending a mere 8 seconds in the portal. It hurls out a fireball that function just like Mario’s from his neutral special. Considering the felhound doesn’t spam these, this is basically just an annoyance and nothing more. This can be powered up, though, to do average knockback and 14% if the hound stays in the portal long enough.

Mana Burn: The Felhound gains this attack halfway along the way to becoming maxxed at 15 seconds within the demonic portal. This functions essentially just like Illidan’s up special, but the Felhound can aim it in any direction it pleases, and will always aim it directly at enemy players. If a foe is off stage, this is the ranged attack the Felhound will always use in an attempt to gimp the enemy player. More time in the portal means longer range in this attack, max charge doubling the distance of how far the attack can go out from the Felhound.

Skeletal Hound: The Felhound gains the ability to use this after being in the portal for 22 seconds. This isn’t an actual attack, but when the Felhound would normally die it will be resurrected as a skeleton. It can still do all it’s attacks while in this form, meaning you essentially have to kill the hound twice. Once the final smash is up, you’re pretty much already dead, so you’d probably be better off simply destroying any portal Illidan makes.

Devour Magic:



This replaces the Felhound’s basic chomp attack, it gaining it after staying the full 30 seconds in the portal. The Felhound bites forward, having the same effect as chomp, but also causing a small explosion in front of itself that destroys any projectiles, items, character specific items like Snake’s mines and what not. For everything the Felhound devours, it will heal 10 HP. If you let the Felhound stay in the portal for too long, there's no way it’s ever gonna go down.

Up Special – Mana Incinerate
Like the Felhound’s version of Mana Burn, Illidan can aim Mana Burn in any direction while in demon form, rather then simply above him. This allows you much more freedom with the move, it being useful for gimping foes rather then simply eliminating edge hoggers.

Back Aerial – Black Doom
Whenever Illidan performs his bair, a Doom Guard is instantly summoned where Illidan did the attack. The bair can still function normally. . .But there’s not much point in going out of your way when you can make Doom Guards on your own casually. Upon summoning the Doom Guard, it will do one of it’s attacks at random, then vanish. Unlike normal, the Doom Guard’s attacks are actually able to be dodged, so the Doom Guard isn’t nearly as fearsome as normal.

Up Aerial – Insane Frenzy
If Illidan casts the frenzy on himself, he won’t take 1% per second but will keep the 10% attack speed bonus, effectively removing the risk of using the move. If you don’t want to use it on your enemy, you can still just casually use it at the start of your final smash to get the attack speed bonus. If you have this version of Unholy Frenzy active when the final smash expires, you will simply revert to normal at the end of the Final Smash, so there’s no penalty for using the free attack speed.

OVERALL PLAYSTYLE – EYE OF THE STORM’S RAGE
Illidan is a ridiculously large target and can be brought up to utterly ridiculous percentages by something as pathetic as Sheik casually walking up to him and spamming her utilt. You’ll want to do everything in your power to nullify this very glaring flaw by playing defensively. While Illidan doesn’t have the range or projectiles to keep foes at bay, he doesn’t really have another option, as he’s horrible at approaching due to his low attack speed. Further encouraging Illidan to play defensively is his down special. You’ll want to be very protective of any eggs you produce. While you could prepare the egg to be a Phoenix egg for recovery, Illidan’s recovery is already pretty good so it’s generally better to have it turn into a Snap Dragon or Dragon Turtle. While one may think enemy projectiles would prevent Illidan from playing defensively, he can quite easily fly over them with his many jumps, and still has a long range attack in his Side Special, Sleep.

Illidan’s main means of damage racking are his throws, and they also work into his defensive playstyle quite nicely in that two of them heal him in the process. Against large foes you’ll want to abuse your bthrow for all it’s worth, while against smaller foes you’ll want to work up your fthrow to be a high percentage to make it a truly deadly force.

While Illidan’s damage can be racked up quite easily, he has no problems making it back to the platform. Eight midair jumps combined with his up special makes annoying to gimp. When it’s time for the foe to recover, Illidan is rather exceptional at gimping his foe. This is one of the few times where it’s okay to be aggressive, as your egg is perfectly safe due to the foe being off the platform and Illidan’s aerials are made for gimping. They’re certainly not for damage racking. Even if you’re too afraid of having the enemy gimp YOU due to your large size, the least you can do is make a cloud with your fair in the path they’re going to recover to prevent them from using their precious up special. If your foe isn’t gonna make it back, your job still isn’t over. Go down and doom them with your bair! This will cause them to start their next stock with a decent amount of damage already on them or make the first bits of damage easy for you to get on, helping Illidan with his horrible damage racking problem.

In Free for Alls and team matches, Illidan can’t play defensively, and several of his throws with laggy animations along with other grab like moves such as fsmash and usmash are highly likely to be interrupted. The problem isn’t so much hitting them, it’s not having your moves interrupted before the actual damage and knockback is dealt. In Free for All, Illidan will mainly want to simply add to the chaos by gimping foes knocked out by other foes, as well as dooming ones that are destined to go down into the pit. In team matches, Illidan himself won’t be playing all that defensively, but his temmate will have to if Illidan’s KO potential is to be taken advantage of.

Illidan requires actual discipline to use in that you have to avoid being too reckless. Players who constantly pursue their enemies will have to restrain themselves when playing Illidan most of the time. On the other hand, players who use more standard slow characters will have to get used to going crazy on their foe when they’re off stage. Illidan isn’t particularly comfortable for players already used to other characters to pick up, having a high learning curve. That’s not to say he isn’t popular with the casuals, though, as his flashy attacks and his attacks that require actual thought to dodge would result in him performing quite well in a casual environment. Illidan would be one of few characters casuals and competitive players could both love without being blatantly overpowered.

***​

EXTRAS

Extra Animations

Up Taunt – Holding Back
Illidan folds his arms and chuckles slightly, saying “You shall never know my –true- power”.

Side Taunt – Blind Titan
Illidan extends out his hand and says “I see. . .” before pausing and saying “absolutely nothing.”.

Down Taunt – Maniacal Overlord
Illidan turns to face the screen and fully extends his wings, making his hurtbox absurdly large. He raises his hands above his head as he laughs maniacally and dramatically. This is decently laggy for a taunt, and when you’re made even larger from it this makes it rather annoying to actually use it to gloat over a defeated enemy.

Entrance – Demonic Portal
A demonic portal like the one in Illidan’s Down Special when using his Final Smash appears. A Felhound attempts to come out, but it’s pulled back in with a yelp as Illidan comes out in his massive demon form from his final smash. Illidan reverts back to his normal form just barely before the fight starts.

Win Pose 1 – Through the Fire and the Flames
Illidan turns to face the losers, yelling out "YOU WILL PERISH IN FLAMES!”. Illidan pauses then attempts to use Immolation, but it causes a large explosion, backfiring on him. Illidan starts coughing and says “Ahem, sorry.”.

Win Pose 2 – Bloody Victory
Illidan stands on the side of the screen so the losers can still be seen, his blades impaled into the ground, saying “Demon blood is thicker than. . .Regular. . .Blood.”.

Win Pose 3 – Darkness Calls
Illidan stands in front of the losers, his wings fully extended and blocking of the view of them, saying "Darkness called... But I was on the phone, so I missed it. I tried to star-69 Darkness, but his machine picked up. I yelled 'PICK UP THE PHONE, DARKNESS!', but he ignored me. Darkness must have been screening his calls.".

Loss Pose – Tired from Battle
Illidan’s blades are impaled on either side of him while he claps, looking uninterested. He occasionally stops clapping, nearly falling asleep, but his blindfold keeps it from being obvious. He then snaps himself back awake and continues applauding the winner before gradually losing interest again. . .

Wiimote Noise
“I shall fight fire. . .with fire.”

Kirby Hat

Kirby gains Illidan’s long black hair as well as his demonic horns. Kirby can perform Illidan’s neutral special, it functioning quite well with his more aggressive speedy playstyle. In addition, Kirby’s usmash also gets replaced by Illidan, where he uses the horns gained in the Kirby Hat to grab foes. While Kirby can’t reach up as far due to his horns being a lot smaller then Illidan’s, he can spin foes he catches on his horns a lot faster, dealing more knockback. This gives Kirby a prime KO move against Illidan.

Snake Codec Conversation

PRESS SELECT

Snake: How’s this crazy vampire moving around with a blindfold?!? Can he sense my movements or something?
Colonel: Nothing you haven’t done before, Snake. Just think back to when you were at the Big Shell. Don’t you remember how Vamp could sense your movements?
Snake: . . .The sad thing is you’re actually right. When you can’t call a freak show like this unique, you’ve seen it all.
Colonel: Well, you’re not entirely re treading the same ground here. Illidan isn’t actually a vampire. He’s half Night Elf, half Demon, and he has plenty of magic and minions at his disposable that Vamp could never dream of.
Snake: He can’t sense my movements through my blood like Vamp, right?
Colonel: Correct. . .Although he might take a taste of it.
Snake: I thought you said he wasn’t a vampire!
Colonel: True. . .But I never said he wasn’t vampiric.
Snake:

-End Transmission

Assist Trophy – Lady Vashj



Vashj emerges from the assist trophy and says “Cursed sea water, I'll never get these coils out of my hair!”, then forms a mana shield around herself, it essentially looking like a blue version of the playable character bubble shield but with sparkles. Vashj then proceeds to fire arrows after foes. Her arrow firing functions just like Link’s neutral B, including the charge time. Vashj will only charge up arrows as much as necessary for them to reach a foe, though. Vashj generally doesn’t move, but if a foe is out of range of even her fully charged arrows she’ll slither towards them, though she’s unable to jump.



More notably, Vashj’s arrows are frost arrows, which will cause foes hit by them to turn a slightly pale blue for a second as their attack and movement speed are cut by 70%. Vashj fires arrows very quickly, so it’s possible she could keep you under this effect if you’re close to her.



Unlike most assist trophies that are actually useful, Vashj is vulnerable. However; Vashj’s mana shield prevents her from taking damage. If you attack Vashj, the damage will be dealt to her mana. Vashj has 120 mana, and each arrow shes fires uses 8 mana. When Vashj runs out of mana, she can be damaged normally and her arrows will no longer have the frost effect. Vashj has a pathetic 20 stamina hiding behind her buff mana shield. It’s in your best interest to try to attack her, as you’ll be waiting a lengthy 45 seconds if you wait for her to expire like any other assist trophy.

Boss- Tichondrius, The Dread Lord





Illidan was originally a normal Night Elf aiming to help the cause of good. However; he was left with no choice but to consume the Skull of Gul’dan and become half Demon in order to defeat this all powerful Dreadlord.

Difficulty- Medium High to High

Hp- Normal Boss Hp

Size- About double that of Ganondorf

Mobile- Yes (can move around like a human character, but cannot jump).

Knockback- Can not be knocked back.

Moves:

Dual Swipe-

Tichondrius claws at you twice using the exact timing and animation shown here. Each slash deals 5...15% and medium...great knockback. The damage dealt by these slashes heals Tichondrius.

Carrion Swarm-

A horde of skeletal bats is summoned by Tichondrius. They then patrol around him for 5 seconds. If a foe gets within 5 stage builder blocks distance of Tichondrius, the undead bats fly towards the foe at an average projectile speed. When a bat reaches a foe, they latch on to it, biting them repeatedly for 1...3% damage per second. They act just like Pikmin in this matter. There are a total of 18 bats, but only 6 may latch onto a foe. The entire swarm flies around the target foe. What is the point of this? The bats swarmed around that foe then use him as their new "orbit." If another foe gets near that foe, the bats not latched to the first target fly to a second target (with 6 bats per target, there is a maximum of 3 targets). The bats can not be gotten rid of like Pikmin, but they dissapear after the 5 seconds are over. This move has low beginning lag and high ending lag. No hitstun, flinching, or knockback is dealt by the bats.
*Do NOT go near Tichondrius when he uses this.

Sleep-

Tichondrius throws a red energy ball at you. If it hits you, you're character takes 10...25% damage and is forced into a deep sleep for 3...7 seconds. Definitely an attack you would want to avoid. The projectile is the size of a large stage builder block and moves at an average projectile speed. It travels until it leaves the stage or hits something. The move is predictable enough to be avoided simply by jumping over the projectile or side-stepping it.

Inferno-


Tichondrius calls down an Infernal from the sky. If you are struck by it when it lands or as it falls, you take 20...40% damage and great...very high diagonal knockback. If you were on the ground, when it lands and within half of Final Destination distance from it, you are stunned for 1...3 seconds. The Infernal has 30...60 health and attacks your character with melee strikes, dealing 5...15% damage and medium...great knockback with each hit.
 

Gygados

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 13, 2008
Messages
143
Location
Don't turn around, 'cos then I'll be behind you.
PT won't be leaving, though. He's one of the most unique characters in the game. The most they'll do is maybe change which Pokemon he commands.
Maybe, but, as PT is unique, so are each of his Pokémon. I'd like to see the same PT from Brawl, and maybe an Alt costume(s), similar to Wario, but changes the Pokémon to the Hoenn Pokémon (Treecko, Marshtomp and Blaziken, second best starters to Kanto). of course, they'd be completely different Pokémon, so a different fight style and attacks, but still the same Three Pokémon principal of the SSBB PT.
 

MasterWarlord

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 24, 2008
Messages
2,902
Location
Not wasting countless hours on a 10 man community
Having three different movesets limited to an alt costume is crazy, that'd be throwing away a free character slot. The characters would just have to be seperated into "red" and "ruby" in that situation. Some characters, like James or Funky, are just basically the main character with a costume change, and would be fine like that, but others, such as leon, would require voice acting, which would be more awkward to contain in a alt costume slot. Three completely new movesets? It's awkward having them as one character, let alone an alt costume.
 

Pubik Vengeance

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
330
Location
Washington State
Not sure if this has been discussed yet, But King K rool really deserves a place in SSB4
I know, i know. dk64 and anything that followed was terrible, but why can't they just go back to a more DKC-styled King.

Ive been thinking about it more and more, and there are a lot of cool things from dkc you could incorporate into the King's moveset.

Here's what i have in mind for a potential moveset.
We'll start off with the specials.

Neutral b: blunderbuss shot.
A projectile that moves straightly forward. The longer you charge it, the faster it travels. If you charge it for too long, the blunderbuss misfires and you can't use it for 10 seconds.
always hits for 8% (low knockback)

Down B: CANNONBALL!

Hold down+B! when you let go of down+B King K rool stomps on the ground! a cannonball falls from the top of the screen as it does in the boss battle at the end of DKC. You can charge this too, but the Length of the charge affects the size of the hitbox only. A good KO move. using the down b off the edge causes a small hop, but then for the king to hurtle straight downwards.
9%-20% (fully charged) (always has high knockback)

>B: the crown!
A weak projectile which moves forward half the nelgth of final destination, and then turns back and king k rool catches it. The crown moves quickly and does 3% damage.
K.Rool can't move while the crown is off his head. The crown is his majesty's source of power!
(barely noticable knockback)

^B: Floating tire.

One of those bouncy, floating tires from DKC materialises beneath King K Rool. The tire Stays in position and doesn't go away until it is bounced on 3 times. the third bounce is the strongest. King K rool can attack after using this recovery, but can't use it again until he touches the ground of the stage.
This move can also be used to gimp the opponent's recovery by bbouncing them towards the edge. the trajectory of the bounce depends on where you hit the tyre.
Enemies that hit the tyre when it materialises get hit for 10% damage
(medium knockback)

I cbf with the rest of this for now.
Twll me what you guys reckon so far.
I think K rool is very workable,
As long as they make his freaky eye normal, and make it come out/bloodshot only in his hurt animation:p
I would love K. Rool in Smash more then anything except Geno, but I don't know about your set of specials, because every single one is a projectile, but otherwise, I actually think keeping one or two of those are pretty good, but all of them would be a it much.
 

mantlecore77

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 17, 2008
Messages
440
Location
Ohio
If K. Rool gets in, they should incoporate moves from his four biggies:
The three DKC series games, with moves based off his regular model, his pirate model, and his mad scientist model, and a move from his final fight in Donkey Kong 64, like the butt bomb that gives off green shockwaves or whatever. Giving him moves solely from one game would be injustice.
 

Big-Cat

Challenge accepted.
Joined
Jul 24, 2007
Messages
16,176
Location
Lousiana
NNID
KumaOso
3DS FC
1590-4853-0104
Generally, I think the consensus is that if they're willing to go so far as to make whole, complete character models like that, they might as well go the extra mile, tweak some damage modifiers and physics, and give us a whole 'nother character.

The only way pure costume changes like that would be a practical idea would be as DLC released after the game is.
DLC for alt. characters really is the best choice. I believe you and I agreed on this a while back.
 

BKupa666

Barnacled Boss
Moderator
Joined
Aug 12, 2008
Messages
7,788
Location
Toxic Tower
K.Rool should incorporate all four of his different personas in something like this:

B: Blunderbuss: He pulls out his blunderbuss from his days as Kaptain. The gun is chargeable and can fire normal cannonballs (5-20%), spiked cannonballs (12-30%), red clouds (act like clocks on victim), blue clouds (freezes foes), or purple clouds (reverse controls). If the blunderbuss is charged too long, it will backfire and K.Rool will be stunned, blackened in smoke for a few seconds.

Side B: Royal Boomerang: K.Rool's trademark attack: he takes his crown and throws it forward like a boomerang. The crown can be angled. It acts like Link's boomerang, except it doesn't pull foes back, it goes out farther, and it hits harder. However, unlike Link's, K.Rool is vulnerable while the crown is out. 12-16% As a side note, if you play as Kaptain, Baron, or Boxer K.Rool (his alt. costumes), they will throw out a pirate hat, remote control, and boxing glove respectively.

Down B: Krusha Slam: K.Rool jumps up and slams the ground on his butt, sending out three green shockwaves. The first does 5% and no knockback or stun, the second does 5% more and stuns the foe (as if by Plasma Beam), and the third does 6% and knocks the foe back a good distance. Has a lot of startup and ending lag, and foes can escape after the first wave. This originates from DK64.

Up B: Helicopter Pack: K.Rool dons his helicopter pack from DKC3 and gets controllable recovery for three seconds. While he's flying, two electric balls (5-6% each) shoot out of the pack below him, one at a time.

Final Smash: I had three ideas here:

The Classic One:
Cannonball Barrage: K.Rool stomps three times, and cannonballs rain from the sky for ten seconds. Each cannonball does 20% and high knockback. K.Rool can move after he stomps, but if he's KOed, the final smash stops.

The Creative One:
KAOS: K.Rool jumps into KAOS, his robot from DKC3. KAOS can't hurt people by running into them, but he does get some special controls:
B: Punching Gloves: A red punching glove comes out of either side of KAOS and can punch foes for up to 25%.
Side B: Propellers: KAOS spins two sets of propellers around his middle, slicing foes. 6-35%
Down B: Fire Jet: A stream of fire comes out of KAOS' bottom. 7-29%
Up B: Laser: KAOS' head spins around and shoots three lasers at foes. 19% per laser

KAOS jumps to hover and lasts 15 seconds.

OR

The Unexpected One:
Blast-o-Matic: K.Rool jumps off screen, and in a cutscene, is shown blasting foes (who are trapped on an island) with a big red laser from his doomsday machine, the Blast-o-Matic from DK64. Foes can move and dodge, but it is very difficult to do. Up to 90%

I prefer KAOS (cause Blast-o-Matic sounds like Aura Storm and Cannonball Barrage sounds like PK Starstorm), what do you guys think?

Anyways, I think K.Rool is the second character that is most needed/wanted in SSB4 (behind only Isaac), and would be shocked if he wasn't in. But if they waste his enormous potential on one form because the Japanese are under the illusion that K.Rool's disguises are his brothers, they shouldn't bother with a half-@$$ed moveset, like this one I've seen.
B: Knuckle Sandwhich: K.Rool throws a powerful punch
Side B: Crown Throw: Exactly like boomerang.
Down B: Croc Spin: K.Rool spins in a hurricane and hurts foes.
Up B: Shockwave Jump: K.Rool jumps up and slams down hard.
Final Smash: Kaptain K.Rool: K.Rool calls his brother to shoot cannonballs.
See what I mean?

In my eyes, K.Rool would be a combination of physical and projectile attacks. He would be a heavyweight as well, but a fast one with good jumps (he's quite agile; watch a video of the final DKC fight: he's faster and jumps better than DK and Diddy combined).

On a side note, Bowser Jr. better make it in as well. He's the most important Mario character besides the main four, in both the main games and spin-offs, has a ton of potential with his paintbrush, Shadow Mario, his athleticism, pranks, and overall awesomeness. Even if they get lazy, he wouldn't be a bad Bowser clone (although that would SUCK!)...
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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On a side note, Bowser Jr. better make it in as well. He's the most important Mario character besides the main four, in both the main games and spin-offs, has a ton of potential with his paintbrush, Shadow Mario, his athleticism, pranks, and overall awesomeness. Even if they get lazy, he wouldn't be a bad Bowser clone (although that would SUCK!)...
Bowser Jr. is smaller and not as mighty as his father though. If anything, he may be Bowser's opposite (nimble but fairly weak in power).
 

BKupa666

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Bowser Jr. is smaller and not as mighty as his father though. If anything, he may be Bowser's opposite (nimble but fairly weak in power).
Exactly, if he's a clone, he may just turn into the next Pichu (minus the self-damage). That would suck to *******ize such an awesome character.

Bowser Jr. can be a smaller, faster version of Bowser while still keeping paintbrush attacks and an original moveset.
 

Spire

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Bowser Jr. would play nothing like Bowser at all. Wario is essentially a fatter, larger Mario (in most regards), but plays entirely differently.

Bowser Jr. needs only AT status. Look at the Mario characters. The four (six including Wario and Yoshi) are classics, and have been around for ages. There's only one character not on the roster who is more than deserving.

Toad. He's as classic as Mario, Luigi, Peach, and Bowser are, and much more important than Yoshi and Wario (let alone Bowser Jr, who has only risen to fame in recent years). Don't counter this with, "then Peach wouldn't have a counter!" because that's the biggest load of honkeytrash I've ever heard. Characters' moves have changed over the course of Smash Bros - including MARIO. Peach can ditch the Toad move so that he can be a character.
 
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