[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[flyinfilipino]

Sakurai said that in order for a guest to get in, they must have a GAME on a Nintendo console. Cloud has never had a game on a Nintendo console so he is disqualified.

Also, yes, Chocobos are the most common creatures in Final Fantasy, with the only one competing with them being Moogles.

I see. Do you have a link to where he said that?

And how do you feel about going all-out with non-Nintendo characters (that have appeared on Nintendo consoles)?

 

[metaXzero]

Small I know, but Cloud did have a cameo in Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories.

 

[KoJ]

I see. Do you have a link to where he said that?

It's common knowledge.

Oh, and Sora's not an emo in KH1. In fact, he's so cheerful it's annoying. He just ends up that way in later games.

The "experience" idea, although awesome, is unfortunately broken.

Chocobo's the best rep, in my opinion. Moogles are fewer and more prominent in the games on Sony systems. Slime's not getting in, as Square Enix thinks FF>DQ.

Small I know, but Cloud did have a cameo in Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories.

Not just small, but miniscule. He's summon item and a boss in the Heracles level. Sora, the main character of that game, has a small chance already. How small do you think Cloud's is.

 

[ChronoBound]

I see. Do you have a link to where he said that?

And how do you feel about going all-out with non-Nintendo characters (that have appeared on Nintendo consoles)?

I don't have a link, but it should be common knowledge by now.

Also, I fervently disagree with going with mostly non-Nintendo characters for Smash 4.

The well is definitely running dry for worthy characters from veteran series. However, there are definitely quite a few Nintendo series that deserve a playable character in Smash Bros. These unrepresented series are what the lifeblood of Smash Bros. 4 should be.

However, there are definitely third-party series that have a lot of history on Nintendo consoles and are iconic with Nintendo platforms. Series that this include are Mega Man, Castlevania, and Dragon Quest. Also, we can throw in Final Fantasy and Sonic, however, those series have half of their history with other consoles, though they still had a lot of important history with Nintendo.

 

[flyinfilipino]

I don't have a link, but it should be common knowledge by now.

Also, I fervently disagree with going with mostly non-Nintendo characters for Smash 4.

The well is definitely running dry for worthy characters from veteran series. However, there are definitely quite a few Nintendo series that deserve a playable character in Smash Bros. These unrepresented series are what the lifeblood of Smash Bros. 4 should be.

However, there are definitely third-party series that have a lot of history on Nintendo consoles and are iconic with Nintendo platforms. Series that this include are Mega Man, Castlevania, and Dragon Quest. Also, we can throw in Final Fantasy and Sonic, however, those series have half of their history with other consoles, though they still had a lot of important history with Nintendo.

I know the quote is common knowledge, I just thought you of all people would have it somewhere so I could see it.

If most of the characters in Brawl and maybe a few more Nintendo characters are to be included, then there's no way that non-Nintendo characters will outnumber Nintendo ones. There can be a balance in the number of newcomers from Nintendo and from elsewhere. Smash Bros. has never been solely about representing every Nintendo-owned franchise.

Smash as a franchise needs new life breathed into it. Snake has shown that results can be interesting if we (or Sakurai) thinks outside the box.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I feel that if there is going to be an influx of third-party characters to move the series forward, history with Nintendo does not need to be a concern. We all know that Snake and Metal Gear have almost nothing to do with Nintendo, yet Sakurai, creator of Smash itself, allowed the character to be in the game. This move may have redefined Smash Bros. as we know it, whether we like it or not. Why not go all out if we're going to do it at all?

Ask and ye shall receive!:bigthumbu Here are the third-party representatives that I would like to see make it in;

Capcom: Megaman, Viewtiful Joe
Konami: Simon Belmont(Castlevania), Goemon(Mystical Ninja/Ganbare Goemon)
Square: Cecil(Final Fantasy II/IV), Terra(Final Fantasy III/VI)
Namco: Klonoa, Pac-Man
Hudson: Bomberman, Master Higgins(Adventure Island)
Grasshopper Manufacture: Travis Touchdown(No More Heroes)
Interplay: Earthworm Jim
Natsume: Jack(Harvest Moon)
Apogee Software: Duke Nukem

Of course, most of those aren't guarenteed to make it in.

 

[SmashChu]

Ah, well, I never heard much speculation about him.

I think Japan was more interested in him then we were. He is starting to gain steam here.

Why I do not think Geno should be in...

What? A Mario fan not wanting Geno? A Mario RPG fan not wanting Geno? Heretic!

When you think about though, it's perfectly reasonable to assume that Geno's not going to get in.

Geno might be "considered" a first party character, but Nintendo still needs Square's permission, which is a large hassle. This would also mean Geno will take up a third party spot, preventing Megaman, Bomberman, Rayman, and other third parties from entering. Yet Geno fans insist that he deserves the spot more than Megaman, who has the second largest video game series ever.

Geno also doesn't represent Mario RPGs nearly as well as another character: Paper Mario. Paper Mario was the STAR of THREE popular games. Geno was a PARTY MEMBER from ONE popular game. See the problem? Also, Paper Mario doesn't require a third party permission, making him easier to put in.

Geno isn't even the main character of his own game. Mario is the main character, and he's already in Smash. Geno might have been important to the plot *Snicker* but he's still just a glorified party member. What about the main villain of the game, Smithy? Or the other party member, Mallow? Or better yet, why not just leave Mario RPG with its main character: Mario.

Geno fandom was never big until Brawl was announced. Sounding the trumpet, suddenly hundreds of people started coming up with excuses for why this insignificant spirit-controlled puppet, from a game most of the fans had never even played, deserved, no, was required for a spot in Brawl. Sonic the Hedgehog? Hah, everyone knows Geno's more popular!

Many people jumped on the Geno bandwagon just because he looked like an awesome character. Their excuses for why he should get in never surprise me...

He's not the only RETRO character (Nevermind that all the other retro characters have been the stars of their games)!

He's not the only character in one game (Nevermind that all of the other characters from one game, with one exception, were the stars of their game.)

He's not the only side character (Nevermind that all the other star characters, again with one exception, were in multiple games and were icons of their series)!

What about Shiek? She's an old side character from one game (True, but there are several differences. Shiek was from what is widely regarded as the best game on the face of the planet. Geno was not. In addition to that, Shiek was put in mainly to make Zelda an awesome, unique, transforming chick. Nothing more.)!

I'm going to greatly disagree.

First, there are no "Third party spots". It's pretty much what ever is popular, and that is only Megaman.
The other thing is you based your argument off of the fact that he's one character in one game. First, Geno was always popular. He was the only character from the Japanese top 10 not to get in and he is one of the three most popular characters here. He has been popular. Not to mention first day sales for the VC games was 8k. Pretty nice, especially as this is MUCH higher then what most games do weekly. Not to mention this came out in Europe, so now more people will play the game.

What you are arguing is importance, but the thing is there are more characters who have less importance and have been in weaker titles. Ike and Lucas especially come to mind. This is why popularity is such a huge driving force becuase there could be arguments all day about who is more important and where do we draw the line.

You still haven't given a source for this other than 2ch, which really really doesn't cut it. (4chan was expecting Mudkip. Believe me.)

Though by the time the game got leaked, people should have given in to the leaked character list, since it was dead on)

2ch is the generally Japanese image board. It the one a lot of people use, and is probably like a mix of a whole bunch of boards+NeoGAF. 2chan is what 4chan is based off of and is more like it too.

Me and a friend of mine were thinking of a way in which Nintendo could revolutionize a future Smash game without changing the core mechanics or "reinventing the wheel" so to speak. We are both disappointed with how "safe" Brawl is. Nintendo didn't try anything surprising or "out of the box". They just took Melee, added a bunch of content, took out some other stuff, and called it Brawl. While this is fine and all, Brawl just lacks the luster and excitement that I felt when I first played Melee.

To make a new Smash game that is truly exciting to play, it would be cool if Nintendo added an all new gameplay element such as a "groove" system like the one in Capcom vs SNK 2.

In CVS2, before picking your character(s), you choose a "Groove" that greatly influences the way your character plays. In C-groove, your characters play as though they were in Street Fighter Alpha 3, but it N-groove they play as though they were in King of Fighters. Though there were 44 characters in the game, it was like they were way more because a single character played so differently depending on which of the 6 grooves you were using.

In a SSB4, there could be like a "Smash groove", "Special groove", and a "Mobility Groove", where each groove emphasizes a certain trait. You like Bowser? Well you could choose from a super powerful Bower in Smash groove, a Bowser with powerful special moves in Special groove, or an actually fast Bowser in Mobility groove.

Of course there would be much more complexities involved and balancing issues to work out, but I think such a mechanic could greatly increase the depth and replayability of a Smash game. Not only do you get to play your favorite characters in very different ways, but by choosing a particular style of play you could overcome your characters inherent weaknesses. I think if Nintendo implemented such a system effectively, they wouldn't even have to add a bunch of content to SSB4 to make it appealing and exciting.

Post some criticism of this idea if you have them

I'll be honest, this idea is awesome. I think it could make the game a lot more fun. One thing they could do is have a standard "groove" where the others change attributes of the character. It might not be balanced for tournament play, but will make regular play REALLY fun. I'll post a few ideas.

 

[ChronoBound]

I know the quote is common knowledge, I just thought you of all people would have it somewhere so I could see it.

If most of the characters in Brawl and maybe a few more Nintendo characters are to be included, then there's no way that non-Nintendo characters will outnumber Nintendo ones. There can be a balance in the number of newcomers from Nintendo and from elsewhere. Smash Bros. has never been solely about representing every Nintendo-owned franchise.

Smash as a franchise needs new life breathed into it. Snake has shown that results can be interesting if we (or Sakurai) thinks outside the box.

No, characters such as Snake have no place in Smash. He was very out of place and his series has little history with Nintendo (all the signficant titles in the series were released for the MSX and PlayStation consoles).

If we are simply choosing third-party characters whose series have a lot of history with Nintendo then this is all we would have:

- Sonic
- Mega Man
- Simon Belmont
- Chocobo
- Slime
- Bomberman
- Tales Character (probably Cless since he is popular in Japan)
- Ryu from Street Fighter

That is not a lot.

Future Smash games need to evolve more than just for the roster. However, unlike other fighting games, in the eyes of the fanbase, the roster is the single most important aspect of Smash Bros. However, regardless of what route Smash Bros. takes in regards to its roster direction its going to run into a wall within an installment or two.

 

[flyinfilipino]

KirbyWorshipper: Now we're talking!

I realize that Smash is one of Nintendo's biggest franchises, but in the future, I don't see the harm in exploring the limits that have already been established by the inclusion of third-party characters. It'd look real good to pit Nintendo's classics and all-stars against other platform-mates.

ChronoBound: Everyone is out of place in Smash Bros. That's the point, to take everyone's favorite (and not so favorite) videogame characters out of the context of their respective universes and do battle. That's what made Smash revolutionary in the first place. Why the need to place imaginary limits on it?

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

No, characters such as Snake have no place in Smash. He was very out of place and his series has little history with Nintendo (all the signficant titles in the series were released for the MSX and PlayStation consoles).

It doesn't matter. Sakurai said it doesn't matter. We should all know this doesn't matter. Why do people keep brining this the **** up, it's a dead topic.

Saying Metal Gear (NES) isn't a significant title? Have you ever played the series? No offense, or anything.

Everyone is out of place in Smash Bros. That's the point, to take everyone's favorite (and not so favorite) videogame characters out of the context of their respective universes and do battle. That's what made Smash revolutionary in the first place. Why the need to place imaginary limits on it?

What he said.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Square: Cecil(Final Fantasy II/IV), Terra(Final Fantasy III/VI)
.

hmm.. I doubt any Square character would make it in besides the

Spoiler

f**got

Geno, but if it has to be one, I think many would agree that it should be Cloud Strife.

 

[The Executive]

It doesn't matter. Sakurai said it doesn't matter. We should all know this doesn't matter. Why do people keep brining this the **** up, it's a dead topic.

Saying Metal Gear (NES) isn't a significant title? Have you ever played the series? No offense, or anything.

Kojima himself has dismissed MG NES and Snake's Revenge as garbage. (irony then that Snake's Revenge is the reason for MG2 andall that followed. Yay Nintendo!!)

hmm.. I doubt any Square character would make it in besides the

Spoiler

f**got

Geno, but if it has to be one, I think many would agree that it should be Cloud Strife.

I sense hypocritical fanboy hate.

 

[The Executive]

dp. sorry.

 

[Skyshroud]

Well, there goes any strategy in trying to defeat a character. I could just get a character that's strong in the air and not jump to make him uber strong on the ground as well.

I have a concept: the characters stay the same, play the same, and have the same moveset regardless of which account, wii, groove, or whatever your on.

I already covered the first part when I explained why my idea would not work, but you apparently didn't read that. Like I said, I was trying to spark some ideas.

If everyone followed your concept, Smash would became stale very rapidly. I was trying to emphasize the fact that there should be no perfect way to play a character, that each character should feel essentially the same, but really have some unique twists. This already happens on some occasions, (see a campy Pit vs. an aggressive one) but too often the mentality is to just play like the best player using that character. It feels like there needs to be some incentive to develop a unique style, so to speak, when playing.

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

Kojima himself has dismissed MG NES and Snake's Revenge as garbage. (irony then that Snake's Revenge is the reason for MG2 andall that followed. Yay Nintendo!!)

I was talking about popularity and impact the games made at the time (regardless of what the creator thought, even Stanley Kubrick hated the process and work going into his films), as that is the only calling card that warrants entry into Smash Bros.. Was Metal Gear on NES make a big shockwave of awesomeness as Metal Gear Solid on the PSX? No, but it was still pretty **** well received. Snake's popularity only grows from there.

You gotta love the Engrish translation. "I FEEL ASLEEP!!!"

 

[flyinfilipino]

SkyShroud: As someone said earlier (I think), the competitive player will probably find a way to adopt the best playstyle for a character.

The Executive: As hemightbegiant said, what's done is done, despite what Kojima has had to say about it afterwards.

hemightbegiant: What's that the transration of?

 

[The Executive]

I see.

Also, Captain Rainbow and Ouendan for SSB4.

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

The Executive: As hemightbegiant said, what's done is done, despite what Kojima has had to say about it afterwards.

Lolita is considered a classic film based on an even more classic Russian novel. Kubrick went in with the highest hopes. He had to face so much censoprship, he even said about it "if I wasn't done with so much, I would have never made the god **** film. It's awful," and Lolita is still considered one of his finest films years later, while he was alive and after his death. I think you guys can see what I'm getting at.

hemightbegiant: What's that the transration of?

Metal Gear NES. One of the screens with guards tells you to sneak around rather than full confrontation, and the first guard just yells it and falls asleep, telling you to use sleeping and off-duty guards lack of security to your advantage.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Kojima himself has dismissed MG NES and Snake's Revenge as garbage. (irony then that Snake's Revenge is the reason for MG2 andall that followed. Yay Nintendo!!)

oh really? who would have thought Kojima would do such a thing, but all that matters is that Snake got in and is enough for me.

I sense hypocritical fanboy hate.

if you meant Geno then yes, but if it was your FF suggestions, then no, it's simply because I believe Cloud would be the best representative for Square if Square was to put any character in Smash.

 

[The Executive]

oh really? who would have thought Kojima would do such a thing, but all that matters is that Snake got in and is enough for me.




if you meant Geno then yes, but if it was your FF suggestions, then no, it's simply because I believe Cloud would be the best representative for Square if Square was to put any character in Smash.

Yes, I was referring to Geno.

For future reference, I'm a Geno fan...I just know how to restrain myself, think realistically, and accept that even putting him in the best light he's only a major character in one game and has only cameoed once in the eleven years since (and even then it was a really small cameo).

Stupid Square. Still waiting for you to ditch FF and make that Chrono Break since you shut down Resurrection.

 

[KoJ]

First, there are no "Third party spots". It's pretty much what ever is popular, and that is only Megaman.

Yes, there are "third party spots." Nintendo has to ask a different company each time they want to add a third party character. Why do you think we only got two (Heck, we almost didn't get Sonic)?

Besides, Geno's from square, who have about a thousand other reps that would work better than him.

The other thing is you based your argument off of the fact that he's one character in one game.

No, he's a retro character from one game where he wasn't the main character, and he's a third party, making it more difficult to include him. Why waste all the effort?

First, Geno was always popular. He was the only character from the Japanese top 10 not to get in and he is one of the three most popular characters here. He has been popular.

Ridley?

Anyway, how does a limited poll where the results are influenced by Sakurai have any bearing on popularity?

Not to mention first day sales for the VC games was 8k. Pretty nice, especially as this is MUCH higher then what most games do weekly. Not to mention this came out in Europe, so now more people will play the game.

And? Mario is the main character of Mario RPG, and you CANNOT deny that. The game sold well? Mario's already in Brawl.

What you are arguing is importance, but the thing is there are more characters who have less importance and have been in weaker titles. Ike and Lucas especially come to mind. This is why popularity is such a huge driving force becuase there could be arguments all day about who is more important and where do we draw the line.

Ike is extremely important, as he's been the main character in 2 games. Geno's been the main character in 0. Lucas was the main in Mother 3.

Now, explain to me how an obscure retro character who's been a side-character in only one game compare to someone like Paper Mario, a relatively more famous character who's been the main in THREE GAMES, which are part of an ongoing series?

if you meant Geno then yes, but if it was your FF suggestions, then no, it's simply because I believe Cloud would be the best representative for Square if Square was to put any character in Smash.

Cloud has no chance. He's been a cameo in a minor game that is famous for its PS2 version, and the character himself is most famous for bringing FF away from Nintendo.

 

[Pieman0920]

It's always odd how people never consider DQ for getting the SE rep spot....if said rep spots existed. Those games have huge populairity, and not the type only found on message boards. =P

 

[C.Olimar788]

Y'know, I think Geno might stand at least some chance for playability, and will definitely be an Assist Trophy otherwise. He has a lot of potential for a unique moveset, which is something Sakurai looks for, he is really, really popular, and I don't think Square owns his rights. After all, he cameod in Superstar Saga, and since that game didn't have anything to do with Square (I think...?) and it'd be dumb to pay for a character for a cameo, I think his chances are at least decent.

But he does indeed have little significance. The most he can do is represent Mario RPG.

 

[KoJ]

It's always odd how people never consider DQ for getting the SE rep spot....if said rep spots existed. Those games have huge populairity, and not the type only found on message boards. =P

True, but Square Enix seems to think DQ doesn't matter compared to FF. Too bad.

 

[Pieman0920]

Y'know, I think Geno might stand at least some chance for playability, and will definitely be an Assist Trophy otherwise. He has a lot of potential for a unique moveset, which is something Sakurai looks for, he is really, really popular, and I don't think Square owns his rights. After all, he cameod in Superstar Saga, and since that game didn't have anything to do with Square (I think...?) and it'd be dumb to pay for a character for a cameo, I think his chances are at least decent.

But he does indeed have little significance. The most he can do is represent Mario RPG.

Geno is owned by Square, as said in the credits for SS. Otherwise with him being "really, really popular" would have let him get in more games. (Like say those two recent Nintendo/SE games....oh wait!)

And I'd really doubt they'd pay for a cameo in Brawl just to be an AT. (Actually, I guess it'd be possible if SE had another more relivant rep get in as playable, then he'd be a AT...)

And Mario RPG is represented by Mario...and Bowser...and Peach.

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

It's always odd how people never consider DQ for getting the SE rep spot....if said rep spots existed. Those games have huge populairity, and not the type only found on message boards. =P

If said spot exis...oh hell, who am I kidding :/

I'd love to see Slime over Chocobo, over Cloud, over Moogles, and over FF VI rep, my favorite Final Fantasy.

 

[SkylerOcon]

an Assist Trophy.

And that's all he ever should be. As KoJ pointed out, he's not deserving otherwise.

Anyway, I doubt Square will get a rep. And even if they do, the chocobo is just... no. I mean, seriously? I don't want to play as a Chocobo. I want to play as Cloud and Sephiroth. Not because I'm a fanboy, but because they have awesome swords. Chocobos are just... birds.

 

[Smasherk808]

It's always odd how people never consider DQ for getting the SE rep spot....if said rep spots existed. Those games have huge populairity, and not the type only found on message boards. =P

Pshh why would Dairy Queen be in SSB4?

Spoiler

*JOKE*

 

[The Executive]

True, but Square Enix seems to think DQ doesn't matter compared to FF. Too bad.

There is a NATIONAL LAW in Japan that states that DQ games cannot be sold on a weekday since it would disrupt the workforce/education system. FF, last I checked, does not have that.

Oi, Square: Release a DQ on a Monday then when you get the bill tell me it's not the more popular series.

 

[KoJ]

But he does indeed have little significance. The most he can do is represent Mario RPG.

Hey, have you ever heard of the new character Paper Mario? You know, the one that's been the main character in 3 RPGs? He sure isn't as good of a rep as Geno.

 

[PhillipthaGoober]

Geno is a pimp

 

[OmegaXXII]

Yes, I was referring to Geno.

For future reference, I'm a Geno fan...I just know how to restrain myself, think realistically, and accept that even putting him in the best light he's only a major character in one game and has only cameoed once in the eleven years since (and even then it was a really small cameo).

Stupid Square. Still waiting for you to ditch FF and make that Chrono Break since you shut down Resurrection.

just for saying that with all do respect, you have my respect , unlike other stubborn Geno fanaboys I know *coughCreocough*

Chrono Break? hmm.. whatever that is, it sounds like a good idea, hope it wouldn't just be for the DS though because seriously, it's a shame that such a good game such as Dragon Quest only came out on DS, why not Wii as well?

Besides, Geno's from square, who have about a thousand other reps that would work better than him.

AGREED!!

Cloud has no chance. He's been a cameo in a minor game that is famous for its PS2 version, and the character himself is most famous for bringing FF away from Nintendo.

I know that, I was just referring if Square were to make a deal with Nintendo, but even then Cloud wouldn't be the likely contestant, just as long as Geno isn't the square representaive then I'm all up for any square character.

 

[C.Olimar788]

Hey, have you ever heard of the new character Paper Mario? You know, the one that's been the main character in 3 RPGs? He sure isn't as good of a rep as Geno.

Did I say "represent Mario RPGs as a whole"? No. I completely agree that Paper Mario is much, much higher priority than Geno as a playable character, but I'm talking about Super Mario RPG for the SNES which Paper Mario is not in. >_> It was the first Mario RPG game and therefor could use a representative for itself (not Mario since he represents the series as a whole). It likely won't get one since Geno is owned by Square Enix as I found out, but hey.

 

[KoJ]

Come on. You know you want this badass robot in Smash, even if he has no chance.

 

[The Executive]

just for saying that with all do respect, you have my respect , unlike other stubborn Geno fanaboys I know *coughCreocough*

Sweet.

Chrono Break? hmm.. whatever that is, it sounds like a good idea, hope it wouldn't just be for the DS though because seriously, it's a shame that such a good game such as Dragon Quest only came out on DS, why not Wii as well?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrono_Break

 

[OmegaXXII]

Come on. You know you want this badass robot in Smash, even if he has no chance.

lol.. Kurt Zisa from Kingdom Hearts

seriously if it has to be from Kingdom Hearts why not Sora instead?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrono_Break

hmm. this is good to hear awesome

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

Hey, have you ever heard of the new character Paper Mario? You know, the one that's been the main character in 3 RPGs? He sure isn't as good of a rep as Geno.

Most definitely, Paper Mario is mediocre at best.

Yes, I know you're being sarcastic. That's irony for ya.

 

[MasterWarlord]

Side Special – Razor Leaf: Exeggutor rears back his upper body before getting back up and lurching forward slightly, launching a single Kirby sized Razor Leaf very quickly, only .1 seconds. . .But it’s a pretty pitiful projectile, only going half a Battlefield platform and dealing a mere 2% and flinching. The move can be charged for an extra .3 seconds to make the leaf go 2/3rds the distance of Final Destination and deal 8%, thankfully.

Up Special – Leaf Storm: Exeggutor shakes about rapidly like a dog over .2 seconds to make a bunch of leaves come all around him, then they lift him up in a massive whirlwind as wide as Bowser and as tall as Ganondorf that deals 22% and knockback that kills at 105%, while shooting Exeggutor up 5 Ganondorf heights without putting him into helpless – he can even use Up Special again! Horrifying stuff.

Except for the part where, y’know, this move has horrendous move decay and it can never be refreshed without getting a new stock. With each use, the move boosts Exeggutor up one less Ganondorf and the power decreases by one/fifth, until after five uses this does nothing.

Rather inconvenient that this is Exeggutor’s only KO Move AND his only recovery. . .Assuming you’re using Exeggutor exclusively, you’ll generally end up being forced to use it for recovery over KOing, as the recovery at lower levels is still useful but the power dwindles too much later on. With your ability to switch out, though, you could always bring in Exeggutor later on when the enemy is damaged to finish off with Leaf Storm or just spam away and then switch out so you have some form of recovery.

Down Special – Egg Bomb: Exeggutor lobs one of his three heads to the ground insanely quickly. When the egg collides with something, it splatters into what’s essentially scrambled eggs – if it landed on the ground it’ll function as a standard tripping trap that lasts forever until you create a new one. If it lands on a foe (You can do this mainly by getting up into the air above them), the egg will crack open and spill it’s contents over their faces, scrambling their controls for 10 seconds (Reverse control stick input and randomly switch the buttons about) until it falls off of them onto the ground and becomes a trap. This move has some slightly notable end lag as Exeggutor regrows the head, but it’s not a deal breaker.

Grab – Psychic: A Bowser sized area half a Battlefield Platform in front of Exeggutor distorts slightly. While the grab is ranged, the fact it leaves you blind up-close doesn’t give it the advantages of a tether. . .But it doesn’t have the disadvantages of the tether either, as there’s no disgusting lag on this.

Upon grabbing a victim successfully, inputting any “throw” simply has you levitate them around at Jigglypuff’s dash speed in said direction. While Exeggutor has no pummel input, you can deal damage to the victim by slamming them against the ground. The higher up they were before you slammed them down, the more damage you deal – 10% per Ganondorf height. You can also grab projectiles with this and levitate them back at their owner. Inputting shield has you drop whatever you’re levitating to regain control of Exeggutor.

Exeggutor still has real throws, though. . .Those leaves from Razor Leaf and those scrambled eggs from Egg Bombs? They don’t magically vanish and lay around on the ground when the attack is over (Leaf storm leaves go off the top of the screen). Notice how an uncharged Razor Leaf falls right into Exeggutor’s grab range? It happens for a reason. You can grab them and have a set of “throws” to use on them. Exeggutor can only levitate 5 leaves at a time but can have out as many as he wants.

Pummel – Levitate: Exeggutor levitate the leaves/scrambled eggs around like he would a foe or an enemy projectile. Simply used to re-position them.

Forward/Back Throw – Magical Leaf: Exeggutor shoots forward/backward all the leaves he’s levitating at once, them being treated as if they were fired from a fully charged Side Special – and this has no lag (Though there is the lag of picking the leaves up, which is still shorter then charging). Picture 5 leaves all being shot at the enemy at once – That’s 40%! Of course, this is rather telegraphed, and once you fire the leaves you have to go over to the other side of the stage to use them again. . .If you throw some scrambled eggs at the foe, then it will be treated as if you hit them with your Down Special, splatting over their face.

Up Throw – Leaf Storm: Exeggutor doesn’t have to magically generate ten billion leaves for this attack, so this doesn’t interact with the Up Special’s decay at all. However; the power depends entirely on the amount of leaves you have. You need 5 for it to be as powerful as the Up Special (And no, it can’t become more powerful then that), and that’s assuming you’ve got them all in the same place and everything. Furthermore, this causes all the leaves to ultimately go up off the top of the screen, just like with Up Special.

If you attempt to move during the second half of the start-up lag, you’re allowed to, as Exeggutor is simply speeding up the levitation at that point. This adds an extra .2 seconds of lag to when the Leaf Storm goes into action, but it allows you to get up into the air a lot easier.

Used on scrambled eggs this is essentially a vertical version of the fthrow/bthrow.

Down Throw – Scramble: Exeggutor scrambles his leaves around at random with his psychic powers. The leaves move around a good while in the background at immense speeds before they come back, several leaves having swapped positions with each other at random. While this may sound useless, you can cover up scrambled egg traps with a razor leaves, and once the foe doesn’t know which leaf is masking the egg it’s much more threatening. It’s not so much the trip itself that’s threatening – it’s the potential threat of your other harmless leaves masking a trap.

Standard Attack – Confusion: Exeggutor leans slightly forward as he utters his Pokemon Stadium cry, causing an area the size of Wario a third of a Battlefield Platform in front of him to distort. Any foe caught by this is dealt a mere 1% and flinching. . .But this scrambles their controls in an identical fashion as to if you splatted some scrambled eggs over them for 10 seconds. This is fairly quick. . .So why use this in combination with scrambled eggs instead of using just this? Simple. If the foe’s controls are already scrambled, they’ll not only be re-scrambled, but this will last for 20 seconds instead of 10. Any further attempts to renew control reversing will again reset the timer to 20 seconds.

Forward Tilt – Psych Out: Exeggutor does the exact same motion as in his jab with the exact same cry, dealing 1% and flinching. . .Without reversing the foe’s controls. Seeing there’s so clearly no reason to use this, the foe will think you used the jab and try to figure out their controls for a while, meaning they’ll more likely then not stumble away from you a good ways, giving you time to do set up. Aside from that, the fact that you have this at all means that if the jab control scrambling just so happens to not scramble as much as it should they’ll think that you used your ftilt, only to later fall victim to one of their other buttons not functioning as it should as a crucial button.

Forward Smash – Future Sight: Exeggutor’s ftilt not sound useful enough? Too bad. We’re introducing another move with the same animation and cry as the jab that deals 1% and flinching. . .No, it doesn’t reverse their controls, nor does it simply do nothing. Instead, it makes the foe’s controls reverse after 5 seconds. This can easily fool the foe into thinking you used the ftilt and think they’re fine only to get screwed over 5 seconds later, or visa versa. Charging the move makes this control reversing potentially last up to 25 seconds rather then the usual 10, though that loses the mindgame potential.

Down Smash – Ingrain: Exeggutor turns to face the screen and extends out vines from his trunk and roots them into the ground as he “charges”, the charging being the actual “attack”, though there’s a good .4 seconds of lag to start “charging”. Exeggutor heals at a rate of 1% per every tenth of a second and can heal up to 35% from this.

Exeggutor has anti-grab armor while ingrained, and Exeggutor’s vines will keep him rooted to the ground if he takes horizontal knockback, resisting it though still taking the damage. To be uprooted from this early Exeggutor has to be hit up into the air. . .Why bother wasting a Leaf Storm or Razor Leaves to get into the air when the foe can be so kind as to help you up?

Granted, the healing is –very- excessive to the point the foe will struggle to out-damage the healing while you’re ingrained, but if the foe does an attack aimed at where the roots go into the ground that deals 10% or more, they can uproot you and prevent you from using the move for 20 seconds (Though this gives you no lag). The fact that the foe has to be practically on top of you to do this though means they’re easy bait for a Down Special. . .This move will bait the foe into –something- you can capitalize on, respond accordingly.

Up Smash – Giga Drain: Exeggutor turns to face the screen and stomps in place slowly like in his Pokemon Stadium idle animation as his trunk starts absorbing yellowgreen energy all around him. This has a quarter of a second of start-up, but the hitbox is a giant disjointed box around Exeggutor as tall as 2 Ganondorfs and 2 Battlefield Platforms wide. This deals 10-20 hits of 1% and flinching, and every damage point inflicted Exeggutor heals. The catches are that this does nothing whatsoever to shields and is fairly easy to DI out of, though if they were right on top of Exeggutor they’ll take three quarters of the damage by the time they DI out.

But still. . .Why wouldn’t they shield? The foe takes shield-stun in such a fashion that their shield doesn’t shrink at all during this time and Exeggutor has .25 seconds of end lag to punish if the foe is still up close to him. The answer is quite simple – they don’t shield because they don’t have a effing clue as to how to shield due to having scrambled controls. Best used immediately after you confuse the foe or right when Future Sight would kick in (Or when it would if you used ftilt).

Up Aerial – Synthesis: Exeggutor angles his palm leaves on his head upwards to absorb as much sunlight as possible. How much he heals is based off how high in the air he is, and thus how much closer he is to the sun. If he’s under Ganon’s height in the air (And he’s not capable of getting that high outside Leaf Storm with his terrible jumps and high fall speed), he won’t heal at all. If he’s 5 Ganondorfs up, he’ll heal 25% - the max. This is fairly quick, but can only be used once every time Exeggutor’s in the air.

Down Aerial – Stun Spore: Exeggutor thrust his upper body downwards as a massive amount of yellow powder comes out of the palm leaves on his head. This is surprisingly fast, and the yellow powder covers an area as wide as Exeggutor and falls faster then Sonic can run, giving this move excellent downward range if used from high up, stunning foes for a nasty 2 seconds. If shorthopped, Exeggutor blocks almost the entirety of the hitbox of the move with his girth.

Aside from giving Exeggutor time to set-up his leaves how he wants or to potentially even set them up under the foe for a leaf storm kill, grabbing the foe won’t interrupt their stun, giving Exeggutor 2 free seconds to levitate them to a hard to recover from position before they can even attempt to escape the grab.

 

[SkylerOcon]

Super Paper Mario is mediocre at best. The first two were actually pretty good RPGs, in my opinion.

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

Super Paper Mario is mediocre at best. The first two were actually pretty good RPGs, in my opinion.

i personally thought (after playing all four of em) that the thousand year door was the best

Spoiler

but my fav nintendo rpg is still Mario and Luigi Superstart saga