Overswarm's get everyone better really freaking fast project

[Kodachrome]

Wow...it's great to see threads like this. Helpful to all, especially us Ikes. It's a shame I'm probably the only one from that board that's paying attention to this, besides a couple others there... Keep up with the awesome. We dig it.

 

[kamekasu]

None of those involved SDI. They were just regular DI by holding perpendicular in most cases. On the Link d-air one he didn't DI at all and it was just the normal trajectory of the d-air, lol. SDI doesn't decrease knockback either (neither does regular DI since it only changes the angle you get launched at). It only moves you slightly and you'd only really live maybe an extra 1% longer by SDIing the KOing hit.

I didn't watch the whole video, I just assumed.
I meant it drastically changes your trajectory. Sorry.

 

[JonBeBonanza]

Well do any of you guys have a video or something. Cause i understand regular DI and it's properties, but SDI and all the frames per whatever are in french to me lol. What about the other video the perfect control one?

 

[kamekasu]

Smash DI: http://youtube.com/watch?v=DvH-pFTBQVQ

 

[JonBeBonanza]

Nice.. that of course would require more than 1 input right?
That semicircle thing Magus said.

 

[manhunter098]

the first hit has set knockback... it's just really freking far.

Yeah, well because of that unless you are at a high percentage...your probably actually better off taking both hits. And forget about being able to DI out and counterattack, its not happening. I think if we come up with a list, we need to rule out ones where it just wont work at all and not even add them.

 

[Overswarm]

If you guys haven't figured it out yet, the first video is up on www.overswarm.com.... right on the homepage.

Sorry it was made with crappy WMM, but I did it on a work computer so I didn't have access to Vegas.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Yeah, well because of that unless you are at a high percentage...your probably actually better off taking both hits. And forget about being able to DI out and counterattack, its not happening. I think if we come up with a list, we need to rule out ones where it just wont work at all and not even add them.

crouch cancelling the first hit means that you won;t get hit by the second... and that's what sends you so far.

it MIGHT be possible to tech that since you skirt along the ground

 

[manhunter098]

Maybe, but I would think that after teching, you are probably too far away to punish them. So the only benefit might be escaping it. Either way its something I would only attempt to do if Im on the side where I have the most distance to do something about it, otherwise it might be a bit risky to try to escape it.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

someone needs to test this <_<

 

[MdrnDayMercutio]

Can you SDI out of Single Jab > Ftilt?

I'm assuming it's more difficult than Jab Combo, but assuming you get the SDI in on the jab can you make it out? Anyone know?

 

[Kirk]

Wow...it's great to see threads like this. Helpful to all, especially us Ikes. It's a shame I'm probably the only one from that board that's paying attention to this, besides a couple others there... Keep up with the awesome. We dig it.

Sometimes we just don't post as often xD

I would have contributed but someone beat me to it long ago :D Almost all of Ike's attacks are one-hit hehe.

Nonetheless, I'm liking what I see so far. Keep it up.

 

[Wafflekin]

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned Dedede's Waddledoo's Eyelasers as a Multihit Attack.

 

[Overswarm]

Can you SDI out of Single Jab > Ftilt?

I'm assuming it's more difficult than Jab Combo, but assuming you get the SDI in on the jab can you make it out? Anyone know?

Again, useless. You have to SDI the first hit of the jab, which comes out freakishly fast. If you know the jab is coming, just shield.

 

[Morrigan]

All I know of: (*=low %s will juggle)
PEACH:
AA
Dash attack
Dair
B
D-smash
Up-b

Peach's Bair has two hits if you pull it right.

 

[toasty]

the only use for SDI'ing out of Snake's Jab combo, if you know it's coming, is if you can't shield. if you just did an attack or anything laggy, or you're in the air and can't airdodge for the same reasons...that will be the ONLY time it's actually useful.....actually you probably shouldn't airdodge anyway if you're falling toward Snake...just SDI out of it if you can call it, it's so fast that..well you just have to KNOW it's coming >_> It can't exactly be a reflex.

If you find yourself in that situation [coming from the air] maybe you should just prepare to SDI away from Snake anyway. If you get grabbed, you would have gotten grabbed anyway. If you get ftilted, nothing you can do about that. If you get utilted or dtilted, you should be DI'ing to the side anyway, if you get usmashed, you would have SDI'ed away from that which is good. If he does fsmash, you should have enough time to react accordingly.

 

[Corrick]

Link
Jab
Up B (aerial)
F-smash
U-smash
B-air
F-air
D-air (bounces up after initial hit)

 

[Samigi]

Dunno if anyone has posted how to escape out of Pika's down smash but here goes.

To DI out of it, SDI up at the initial hit, then DI diagonal up/away from initial hit.
So if you are on his left, First SDI up, the DI up/right.
So if you are on his right, First SDI up, the DI up/left.

That is how I do it, and can gaurentee a get out after third hit at about 20% and higher, any lower I get hit more time, but rarely get hit by the final one.

Taken straight from the Fox forums.

 

[Azrealdnt]

Overswarm, are you using both the cstick and control stick to DI, and if so, in the same direction?

 

[Overswarm]

Better way to DI out of Pika's d-smash:

hold up

>_>

or mash up on control stick and c-stick

 

[Overswarm]

Overswarm, are you using both the cstick and control stick to DI, and if so, in the same direction?

yesssssssssss

 

[goodkid]

I'm still learning DI and this will be very useful, it seems like a lot to soak in with all the diagonal up, down, left right DI & with certain % for certain DI...

 

[JonBeBonanza]

It separates the men from the boys my friend.

lol?

 

[blink777]

Excellent thread, Overswarm, and great video. Your work is really appreciated.

 

[Deleted member]

Overswarm, I'm not too sure where to put this - but Metaknight's up-B is di-able. Like, obviously every move is di-able, but if you di it right, it's actually useless as a kill move because you literally go nowhere. No knockback - only a little bit upwards.

I'm hoping someone else can back me up on this, because I'm not sure how I did it consistently.

I'm pretty sure that if you DI your character with metaknight's loop trajectory you actually don't go anywhere except for a little bit upwards.

If people learned how to consistently DI it, it would be critical. I notice you dont have up-b as a multi hit on hte first page - I'd call it that, because you can DI out of it. Or with it?

 

[toasty]

HOLY CRAP really???? I will definitely try this...hope it's true!

 

[Overswarm]

Overswarm, I'm not too sure where to put this - but Metaknight's up-B is di-able. Like, obviously every move is di-able, but if you di it right, it's actually useless as a kill move because you literally go nowhere. No knockback - only a little bit upwards.

I'm hoping someone else can back me up on this, because I'm not sure how I did it consistently.

I'm pretty sure that if you DI your character with metaknight's loop trajectory you actually don't go anywhere except for a little bit upwards.

If people learned how to consistently DI it, it would be critical. I notice you dont have up-b as a multi hit on hte first page - I'd call it that, because you can DI out of it. Or with it?

maaaaaaaake a vid

Because I don't think it's really the DI... I think it is when MK hits you with it. So find out when it is strongest, hit with that, and DI and see what happens.

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah I have no way of making Vids. I'm probably the worst person to do this.

Perhaps I should just make a thread trying to get people on the case. I am very sure it's not that the shuttle loop was weakened by overuse or bad spacing, because I remember going fast enough that I would have died if I didn't DI it.

I dunno, ugh :/ This is big, I know it.

My DI was a counter-clock wise circle, because that's how metaknight hit me.

 

[Overswarm]

Yeah I have no way of making Vids. I'm probably the worst person to do this.

Perhaps I should just make a thread trying to get people on the case. I am very sure it's not that the shuttle loop was weakened by overuse or bad spacing, because I remember going fast enough that I would have died if I didn't DI it.

I dunno, ugh :/ This is big, I know it.

My DI was a counter-clock wise circle, because that's how metaknight hit me.

Well, it's only one hit, so you acutally only can DI in one direction per frame of hitlag, and that's whatever direction you pressed when you were in hitlag. Chances are you didn't actually DI in a full circle, because the hitlag is pretty small f or this move.

 

[toasty]

Is quarter circle DI in Brawl?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWAjYxGTmr4

the last one, "Major European DI" is quarter circle smash DI...does this exist? maybe it is related to what you're talking about, Delorted

 

[Deleted member]

That last one is EXACTLY what happens, except in that video bowser gets hit more than doing it against shuttle loop.

I'm sure that's what happened. Maybe I'm wrong, actually in retrospect I doubt this is big

..:/ should i just make a thread?

 

[toasty]

surviving one of the gayest/stacked moves ever? of course that's big! MK is able to get far too many relatively low% KOs and doing Shuttle Loop as an edgeguard is one of the ways to get them...so yeah. Someone with fast fingers/reflexes and recording equipment, please record a vid of this showing the DI at 100+ %s before getting hit with various parts of the shuttle loop

=D

 

[Overswarm]

Is quarter circle DI in Brawl?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWAjYxGTmr4

the last one, "Major European DI" is quarter circle smash DI...does this exist? maybe it is related to what you're talking about, Delorted

That video is fake, I believe. It looks like they changed the damage ratio. Either that, or he crouch canceled and then smash DIed up and right.

When you're hit, you go into hitlag. During hitlag, any input you have is registered and changes your trajectory (NOT DISTANCE). When you hit the stick in a direction from the neutral position, this creates what we call smash DI, or SDI for short.

So you have normal DI, which is just holding a stick.

Smash DI, which is smashing the stick the moment you get hit.

And something called "Automatic DI", which is simply holding the stick before you get hit. This is the weakest form of DI, as you are not hitting it from the neutral position during hitlag.

What "quarter circle" DI is is simply a lot of different inputs on normal DI done very quickly. If you have, say, 18 frames of hitlag (like Samus' charge shot from Melee) and you rotate the stick, each individual location of the control stick would be registered. If you hit a direction on each frame and went back to neutral between hits, you could actually go the opposite direction.

To put it into perspective how fast you need to do this, each frame is 1/60th of a second, and samus' charge shot at full blast gave you 18 frames (meaning 18/60ths of a second) to DI.

I'm unsure of how many frames of hitlag you receive from some attacks, but most single hit attacks don't allow you to DI as much. Multi-hit attacks give you ample time to SDI repeatedly, generally once per hit, which allows you to move your character even though they are technically paralyzed.

 

[Magus420]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure they just crouched right as the falcon punch hit so you don't see it happen but it reduces the knockback, and then DIed up and towards before the hitlag ended. If you're able to crouch you're also able to shield though so it's not really useful.

 

[Deleted member]

Magus has ridiculous DI, IIRC.

Should a thread be made so people can try and figure this out? I did it two or three times in one match.

 

[toasty]

whether that video is fake or not, I've DONE that "european DI" and spent an entire evening having fun practicing this with friends...like we would be in training mode, all of us Ness except one Marth, and we'd be at like...130? 140? Marth would die to make his attacks fresh and there's no change in damage ratio...we'd all get hit by the tipper and we barely went anywhere.

I also did this as Pikachu against a Captain Falcon. I'd be at 120ish, and he would ledgehop Knee...and I went such a short distance that one time I quarter-circle DI'ed the knee 3 or 4 times...like, he did ledgehop-knee and then 3 SHFFLed knees and I STILL wasn't at the other edge of FD

Note: this requires nearly breaking your control stick [or feeling like you will]. it's painfully fast
But possible? Yes. Definitely.


EDIT: I was not crouch canceling either. If I was facing right, as soon as I get hit, I would go from the 45-degree down-right position to the 45-degree up-right position as fast as humanly possible.

 

[Overswarm]

You can't change the distance you move in Brawl unless there is something we are unaware of at work because you can't crouch cancel.

 

[Magus420]

I don't play Brawl much but by no crouch cancel, do you mean 'No ASDI to ASDI downward and keep you grounded', or 'No ASDI to ASDI downward and keeps you grounded and crouching also no longer affects the strength of knockback'?

 

[toasty]

well, if crouch canceling is your reasoning for what changes knockback distance, then you missed something that I said: I was still doing the same quarter-circle DI [well, the one that I described] in the air. Knockback was most definitely reduced.




btw...................for those who might have missed it, please remember: the examples I'm describing are in MELEE. I wonder if there's something similar at work in Brawl...though it's difficult to really know until it's been done. Seems like one of those "the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" things >_>

 

[Overswarm]

I don't play Brawl much but by no crouch cancel, do you mean 'No ASDI to ASDI downward and keep you grounded', or 'No ASDI to ASDI downward and keeps you grounded and crouching also no longer affects the strength of knockback'?

Thaaaaaaaaaat's it. If you hold down, you just fly horizontally. That's about it.

It may be possible to tech the ground (stopping ALL momentum instead of sliding), but we're not sure how. I have done it a few times, once on video.




Toasty, I play Metaknight as well and I often, when hitting with the weaker parts of the up+b, get "no knockback" on my opponent. Their DI is not a factor.

Try to get a video or at least a detailed description of how it is happening and a way for other people to emulate your tests.