Peach Tactical GD

[Morrigan]

Typo typo typo typo. I SWEAR that HAD to be a programmers' TYPO. It's so DUMB it doesn't make SENSE.

 

[Akariss]

It's half the reason I get owned by Meta Knights, cause air dodge doesn't work, so what do I do dair them? MK's uair > Peach's Airdodge

 

[Corrupted]

Eh you only use the first frames anyway. The period of time between frame 19 and 29 they will still be lagging from their aerial.

Oh and I try not to airdodge anyway. Just out smart them with fast falling float and double jump and bait a misspaced u air.




But guys, what do you think about recovering backward to make use of bair's nice hitbox and duration. Its kinda useful against Diddy and others you don't need fair's range for i guess?

 

[r3d d09]

obviously this is recovering without your umbrella.

i know about few people don't know how to switch directions in the air. you might want to inform them on that too.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Eh..........I know I lost my rights to give advice and all but.....

Meno made me put it here ;(

ZSS can't deal well with Peach pressure. If you can stay on her, her shield will be eatin or she will be taking damage.

If you are in the air with her, don't do anything. Just pull away from her. Don't bother landing AND trying to attack her. Just pull away while landing.

You can camp her better than she can camp you. Glide tosses from the ground to get close then followed with Jabs help. And you have more ways to approach then she does.

If she is spacing her F-B, have a turnip in hand and powershield it, then glide toss to get close. Then do a jab combo.

If she spaces bairs on your shield over and over, when the bair hits the shield, jump and chase her to a Fair. You can hit her before a bair comes out again

I've had a few issues lately on a few certain match-ups that I need some general point of view from anyone that's willing to provide input.

ROB - His camping gets to me, I CPed Frigate and did far better on it than I did on a Neutral (Yoshi's Island).
I need some advice on getting through the tops/lasers (aerial or ground) however you guys do it.

Diddy - Bananas do become an issue sometimes, but what really works on me is SH banana throws while I float to get past the ground bananas. (Didn't know about ground float banana pick-ups, till I looked into this myself)

Generally looking into personal opinions on how you guys approach these certain match-ups and no I'm not looking for ratios, looking for approaches/defensive options against these guys in particular with my descriptions in mind.

kthx

Still learning ROB sadly. When I play with NL ROB more, than maybe I can share something.

Which Diddy floatin helps you alot USED CORRECTLY. Pressure his shield to Jabs. When you Dair his shield, before the dair ends, drop with a spaced Nair to a Jab. (you may not have to space it if he has a banana in his hand, he really cant do anything. Then Jab>w/e. But be aware diddys might just roll. Thats why it is good to jab once and have good reaction time. if he hits you out the air with a banana, he can't really follow up with anything. Only if you are grounded.

Z grab his bananas alot. You can use all air attacks with one in your hand. And can use the bananas well. A good pressure game can eat about half his shield. Just dont start a pressure game from distance comming to him. To obvious and diddy will just get you bad for it. You are slow and left open when floating. Thats the con about floating. I got all this from playing NL Diddy. I have to play it again to fiure out how to kill and edguard him well.

And for reverse recovering, if you are high in the air or returning, just reverse toad And if you feel like you will get hit, you have bair. or if you did not toss your turnip yet, just toss it behind you so you are looking at the stage. Peach bair when timed riht is hard to deal with. Even for Marth. So this can help.

Eh...............idk. Just thouht I post this for w/e reason....

 

[Akariss]

Glad you did, I'll keep it in mind, since your the only person who has given me a through input of the match-up. Still looking into ROB thou, camping is getting to me.

 

[Dark.Pch]

This may sound stupid but I think you can camp him as well. But not for too long. It's a hit and run game. Toss like 2- 3 turnips then get inside him and pressure. Once any of you break away, repeat.

I forgot the timing of his lasor shot. Like how long it takes to recharge. But for his gyro, he has to charge it to get a good toss of distance. You can abuse this and go in for the pressure.

ROB can camp but I noticed it is not that fast. And I think Peach can abuse that. Around this time you should focus on getting inside rob for pressure. And if you can, time getting turnips and throwing them at rob. Platforms can help. I just pay attanetion when he tosses a gyro or laser.

Thats all i remember and how I was able to beat chibo. But I still dont get this match up yet.

 

[Akariss]

A few good stage counter picks and why (I chose Frigate [don't know why]), along with the timing of the laser/getting around is would help alot for ROB since that's the majority of how he builds damage on me.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I 2 stocked chibos ROB on frigate when he counterpicked that stage on me. Maybe its a good stage Vs him. I have no idea. But I would usually stage him to Battlefield. I played Dull Razer on that stage and he had a hard time on it. He could not beat me there. The platforms help alot on him.

 

[Silly Kyle]

I played a ROB player recently in tournament (who is power ranked above me) and I beat him on Frigate when he counterpicked it. I also beat him on Battlefield. His camping game isn't that bad in my opinion, unless you're fighting on FD or Pictochat. It's true his laser can be annoying. Just watch out for it and look for patterns in how they shoot it and what angles they like to use. For his gyro, I don't think it's that much of a problem. Just shield it and if you really don't like it, hold it and use it when you do your aerials.

 

[Praxis]

ROBs always counterpick Frigate. For a while, I actually counterpicked Frigate on ROBs myself; for some reason, I think Peach just does better there.

Then I realized that, if I don't let on that I like Frigate, they'll take me there themselves and save me the trouble of CPing it. I just make a face when they point to Frigate on the selection menu

I actually think Frigate might be a good Peach stage. The blast zones are small...easy to kill?

 

[lloDownedu74]

The weirdest thing happened to me on wifi a few weeks ago. I played this ROB (Kira11139 or something, I forget) and all 3 matches went down to below 1 minute. I got timed out at SV. Then, at BRINSTAR, he almost timed me out when I killed him. Then he timed me out on FD.

I hate campy ROBs xD

 

[Eddie G]

I agree, Frigate is a good Peach stage for certain matchups. Nope took me there with his Snake over the weekend and while it did enhance his camping game a bit, it wasn't really all that different from fighting him on Battlefield which in my opinion is a great Peach stage against Snake. The main objective is to keep him above you as much as possible, and both the Battlefield and Frigate layouts assist Peach in pressuring him on his way down in a relatively safe manner.

Kind of vague, but I'm not really that good at explaining things. I just do 'em. xD

 

[Xyless]

I know Frigate is/was Mikey's CP of choice. Just don't take an Olimar here...he gets more purples, which are devastating against Peach.

 

[Praxis]

I know Frigate is/was Mikey's CP of choice. Just don't take an Olimar here...he gets more purples, which are devastating against Peach.

Weruop took me there once in tournament...I still won. Tee hee

 

[Meru.]

I had always thought that Peach outcamped ROB XD. Apparently not, but I find it easy for Peach to get around ROB's camping.

 

[Akariss]

Everyone has their own personal match-up hate I guess :/.

 

[Corrupted]

Gyro is such a nice toy. You can use it so much more effectively.

Laser has really obvious start up animation.

Ftilt can keep you out pretty well. Dtilt is a great move for up close. You're best bet for punishing these is jab OoS but ftilt can outrange this. I'm more worried as how he can stay up in the air for so long and not be phazed by float/dj gimmiks meaning you can eat alot of nairs.

 

[Praxis]

I find that dair is really effective against ROB. Not as an approach, but as a basic punishment. If he dsmashes your shield, SH dair OOS. If he glide tosses, SH dair OOS. If you're in a spotdodge-or-shield guessing game at close range, SH dair OOS. It beats all of his close range options and tends to shieldpoke.


Of course, NOT an approach, he'll just smack you out of the sky with ftilt or fsmash or SH fair.

 

[hiROI]

How do you approach ROB then?

 

[Meru.]

Baiting, aerials, glide tosses, force an approach...

 

[Akariss]

I'm gonna try this counter-camping strategy, but does anyone happen to have a video of someone doing it on youtube? If so post me a link so I can watch it in action.

 

[deepseadiva]

Can someone explain this horribleness please?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oym5J19GjBc&feature=related

@ 1:08

Tell me Kyon was doing it wrong or something.

 

[Corrupted]

Can someone explain this horribleness please?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oym5J19GjBc&feature=related

@ 1:08

Tell me Kyon was doing it wrong or something.

He wasn't buffering. Have a 6 frame advantage at 0% and 8 frames at the end so no need to take that damage.

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

Yeah im pretty bad lol

 

[r3d d09]

so what do you mean he was doing it wrong? am i missing something? and is pharaoh kyon?

 

[Meru.]

He didn't buffer the Dthrow apparantly, yes, yes.

 

[Xyless]

Yeah, you know you buffer it right if the grab sound doesn't happen.

 

[-Cross-]

Somebody told me I should ask these questions here.

"Peach seems to have some wall locks. The only ones I know of are jab and D-smash. Are there any others?"

Regarding D-smash:
"Well i guess its really situational. I'm referring to this vid @2:38
http://www.youtube.com/user/Kyonowi#p/u/5/m5pW1339l9Q

But no other locks with maybe, forward throw or float cancelled aerials?"

Reply I've gotten:
"You can do it with strong fc bairs/nairs until it sends into tumble from about 10%. You can do it with weaks bairs from around 80% until that sends into tumble (around 130% when staled.) weak chain is better done backwards because of the wierd jump forwards peach doing with het bair landing animation."
from Corrupted

Anything else?

Also I have heard that a move loses shield stun as it degrades, so at what point does fair become "unsafe" on block?

 

[Meru.]

Marth. imo:

Peach's defensive > Marth's defensive
Marth's aggressive > Peach's defensive
Peach's aggressive > Marth's aggressive
Marth's defensive > Peach's aggressive

Agree? Disagree? Tell mee.

 

[-Cross-]

I would have to disagree with Peach aggressiveness>Marth aggressiveness. Marth's fair is famous for the great walls that he can make, and it outranges all of peach's options. Idk if Peach's fair has more range than Marth's fair, but Marth's fair is quicker, thus giving the advantage to Marth in terms of offense. Peach would have to weave and counterattack to beat out Marth's fair with her fair.

But this means she loses out on aggressiveness because Marth can control how and when he attacks. Also Marth's nair is "faster" than fair. I say this because although fair's hitbox comes out sooner, it takes time before the down arch hits the opponent, while nair is more like a direct poke. Since Peach isn't short she can not really punish the FF autocancelled nair like MK, who can just dash under the hitboxes, which makes it even harder for Peach. Peach's reliable way for aggressive approach would be with turnips, which take time to pull and thus less time to put pressure on the opponent. Overall isn't this why Marth is listed to have an advantage in this match up?

 

[Meru.]

I see.

Bleh, now I'm lost again. But I don't really feel that Marth has an advantage over Peach anymore... It might be me though. And I haven't played a good Marth well (except Mr. R, but that match was stupid).

 

[-Cross-]

Stupid in what way? Honestly though building up the experience is what gives you the best idea. I hope you have access to play against at least ok Marth's, that way you can develop strategies that work against them 100% of the time, and thus have some options/tactics to use against better Marths. If they don't work, then revise them, and if they do work than you got lucky

Anyway, I have a question regarding Peach's fair approach. Frame data says it is safe on block and most matches I have seen have proven this, yet sometimes I see Peach's getting shield grabbed after they fair somebody. Is this because the player simply autocancelled incorrectly or chose a punishable option after the fair, or, worse, is it because fair does less shield stun because it is degraded and thus becomes punishable? Also according to frame data, autocancel dair and strong bair fc are both safe on block, but I don't see people using this to their advantage. Maybe these should be alternatives to fair approaches.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Peach only has one way to play Marth if she wants to win. Marth has 2 ways to play to win. Thats how I see it.

If Peach gets shield grabbed it has to be because her spacing was off.

 

[-Cross-]

Even if her spacing is off though, she can still jab/spot dodge and avoid the grab. I guess you are right, since Peach would never get grabbed if she was spacing correctly. But in the case that she doesn't, I am asking why does she get punished when she shouldn't be?

 

[Dark.Pch]

these can be the reasons:

- Spacing is off
- Lagged from the fair to jab (if you fall at the wrong time, you will lag)
- Jabbed too slow
- Fair hit the shield then she fell to the floor. This can screw up timing of auto cancel and spacing.

 

[Meru.]

Stupid in what way? Honestly though building up the experience is what gives you the best idea. I hope you have access to play against at least ok Marth's, that way you can develop strategies that work against them 100% of the time, and thus have some options/tactics to use against better Marths. If they don't work, then revise them, and if they do work than you got lucky

Well, I was very demotivated. It was my last match of the pool and I lost almost all of mu matches. It was an extremely hard tourney after all and my pool was just LOL, so I didn't really feel like playing seriously anymore. Even though Mr. R would have won without any doubt anyway (he's a REALLY good player, our skill levels are pretty much incomparable), I didn't feel the match was realistic or had learned me something. I'll probably have a rematch someday, when I get better.

 

[Corrupted]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXtqWoAjy7c

how to play against marth

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSxB3LnRV8w

He screws up his edgeguards among other things here, but some pretty cool anti-marth strats he.


I wish he would dash attack less...

 

[Meru.]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXtqWoAjy7c

how to play against marth

WTF the ways he uses turnips... @_@. I'm going to keep this in mind.

 

[Xyless]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXtqWoAjy7c

how to play against marth

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSxB3LnRV8w

He screws up his edgeguards among other things here, but some pretty cool anti-marth strats he.


I wish he would dash attack less...

Wow, I like how controlled his movements are, and how he uses the instant float cancel every once in a while to confuse spacing. I've been incorporating the instant float cancel a lot more into my playstyle lately, but I really need to learn how to mix up more with turnip use.