thesage
Smash Hero
When I'm being hit by Marth's side b I always di up and away. I almost always get out. Di'ing towards him is the last thing you want to do unless you're like right next to him?
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PKAY FIAH! ~ Ness MU Discussion [INDEX PAGE + Various Discussions]
- Thread starter Yink
- Start date
Brinzy
Godfather of the Crimean Mafia
Up and away? Never really tried that because Marth, from my experience, likes to follow me and finish his Dancing Blade with upward slashes.
thesage
Smash Hero
It worked against Neo, Azen, and Kadaj....
Brinzy
Godfather of the Crimean Mafia
That, I am not concerned with. I'm just wondering if Marth can point his DB towards where Ness is obviously DIing to keep him in it.
_Kadaj_
Smash Hero
Um You can't do that, The best you could possibly do is hope that you can get the hit off before he escapes.
Levitas
the moon
successor, isn't oberlin college the one with the ssb class? Shouldn't you know that you chase DI by manipulating timing and spacing, and that if you can't manipulate spacing then the best way to DI chase is to manipulate timing by decreasing the time between hits to a minimum? In other words, wft are you talking about?
Brinzy
Godfather of the Crimean Mafia
It was a legitimate DI question because I did not know. To demonstrate what I was asking for those who are still confused, let's say I'm caught in DB. We know, for the most part, how DB works. I know Marth has upwards slashes and downward slashes. If I were DIing how thesage was saying (up and away), then mentally, I can see how it'd work for the most part, but what if Marth used upward slashes?
Also, if you manipulate timing... then once again, how is DIing getting Ness out of it? That's why I asked the question in the first place! That would be "keeping him in", right?
Also, if you manipulate timing... then once again, how is DIing getting Ness out of it? That's why I asked the question in the first place! That would be "keeping him in", right?
It has not been offered for over two years now. Why is this important?
thesage
Smash Hero
I don't really see Marths using the upward side b that much. They usually don't hit me after they use one. They could use it as their third move since I usually don't get hit much by the 4th hit since I manage to di away by then usually... The only one that I get hit buy is 2 of the hits in the final downwards one (the one with the many stabs).
It depends where you are in the move, if you're really close I guess di towards him (this never happened to me but Levitas said so...), if you're in the middle di away and slightly above, if you're near the edge of the attack di up and away.
It depends where you are in the move, if you're really close I guess di towards him (this never happened to me but Levitas said so...), if you're in the middle di away and slightly above, if you're near the edge of the attack di up and away.
Brinzy
Godfather of the Crimean Mafia
Thank you. That makes more sense.
AdmantNESS
Smash Ace
Ehh, I don't think Marths are coming here. Maybe we should discuss another character or someone post in their match-up thread asking them to come here.
EDIT: Then lets go to another character lest this thread stays still for another week or so.
EDIT: Then lets go to another character lest this thread stays still for another week or so.
FireKirby7
Smash Lord
They already did. They quickly lol'd and left.
jorge199494
Smash Apprentice
Yeah this match-up is auto 70-30. There's no why to do anything against the "Marth". You CANT approach.
Levitas
the moon
except that marth actually does beat up ness solidly.
_clinton
Smash Master
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2006
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7:3 is a bit too high IMO...
Levitas
the moon
7:3 is how hard I get beat. idk who you guys are playing, but between marth's pressure options, fast attacks, range, grab game, and having a dragon punch, marth is very adept at handling any and all options ness can throw at him.
Brinzy
Godfather of the Crimean Mafia
30:70, let's move on.
AdmantNESS
Smash Ace
Hhm, can't we at least discuss good counterpicks against him, stage or character? Though its still a bad matchuo either way for Ness.
AdmantNESS
Smash Ace
I remember when the GW people invaded us during the C.Falcon discussion. They said they were doing Ness next if we weren't going to discuss him. They have us as 70:30 in their thread.
_clinton
Smash Master
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Ah people care ^_^
BTW Nair, and Dair are my BEST FRIENDS with Marth ^_^
EIDI...look it up...
G&W ranges a lot with me...but to be fair that is the same with everything
PKNintendo
Smash Master
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2008
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- 3,679
No! We do G&W.
(James wood style)
Clinton, stay out of our way.
I making another topic in the Marth boards.
(James wood style)
Clinton, stay out of our way.
I making another topic in the Marth boards.
_clinton
Smash Master
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Fine...I won't invade the Marth boards with the truth...
Brinzy
Godfather of the Crimean Mafia
I'm thinking of some possible stage counterpicks against Marth, but they need to be verified.
Luigi's Mansion - I really like this stage. I'm not sure how good it is for Ness, but there are some good points. If you actually have a lead on a Marth, you can use PKF on the bottom pillars to block his attempt to approach you from there. The obvious problem here is that he can just go to the top pillar to approach you or he can even break the top one. I don't think Ness's uair goes through the floor, which would be a godsend, but if it does, let me know. You can still chase him with PKT if he decides to go up, but I don't think this is an extremely effective strategy. It could be Ness's only good strategy, though.
Luigi's Mansion is also kind to characters with punishable recoveries. Just look at the stage and you'll see why Ness gets a nice break from most of his recovery woes. Stay inside for as long as you can, because it'll help keep you alive longer, which may get you that damage you need to b-throw him, and with pivot grabs and dash grabs, you should really not find yourself in too many situations where Marth will get stuck under the stage and not die. But, there's a bonus for Ness!
Let's say you're on the first floor of Luigi's Mansion with the house intact. Let's say you're both by the left pillar, while you're both standing to the right of it, Marth being closer to the pillar. You grab Marth. You start pummeling. He DI's up because he wants to hit the wall to live from your b-throw. What do you do instead? U-throw! Marth is going to go straight up into the floor, where you can follow up with nair or uair. Nair has the bonus of being able to place Marth into a deadly situation, while uair, at lower damages, can place Marth on the floor which sets up a possible tech-chase or whatever. Very situational, but hey, whatever Ness can get right?
I think this could soften up the match just a little for Ness, but for all I know, Marth might have something good going for him here which will nullify this.
Luigi's Mansion - I really like this stage. I'm not sure how good it is for Ness, but there are some good points. If you actually have a lead on a Marth, you can use PKF on the bottom pillars to block his attempt to approach you from there. The obvious problem here is that he can just go to the top pillar to approach you or he can even break the top one. I don't think Ness's uair goes through the floor, which would be a godsend, but if it does, let me know. You can still chase him with PKT if he decides to go up, but I don't think this is an extremely effective strategy. It could be Ness's only good strategy, though.
Luigi's Mansion is also kind to characters with punishable recoveries. Just look at the stage and you'll see why Ness gets a nice break from most of his recovery woes. Stay inside for as long as you can, because it'll help keep you alive longer, which may get you that damage you need to b-throw him, and with pivot grabs and dash grabs, you should really not find yourself in too many situations where Marth will get stuck under the stage and not die. But, there's a bonus for Ness!
Let's say you're on the first floor of Luigi's Mansion with the house intact. Let's say you're both by the left pillar, while you're both standing to the right of it, Marth being closer to the pillar. You grab Marth. You start pummeling. He DI's up because he wants to hit the wall to live from your b-throw. What do you do instead? U-throw! Marth is going to go straight up into the floor, where you can follow up with nair or uair. Nair has the bonus of being able to place Marth into a deadly situation, while uair, at lower damages, can place Marth on the floor which sets up a possible tech-chase or whatever. Very situational, but hey, whatever Ness can get right?
I think this could soften up the match just a little for Ness, but for all I know, Marth might have something good going for him here which will nullify this.
Versuses Marth? I guess I can see that being about right. At least it isn't like 70:30. When fighting Marth with Ness, you're better off playing defensively. I fought a pretty good Marth today and I suppose I mostly won because of the stages I chose. We played about five matches, I won three but I fought his Pit first. He did manage to two stock me on the final match. I wasn't going to care if he won the match, I just didn't want to get two stocked.
PKNintendo
Smash Master
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This is ridiculous? Who the hell do they think they are? We've asked to a matchup discussion, they MUST discuss. Dear lord, if Ness was in Marth's tier and Marth's was in Ness', we wouldn't bother with this crap.
_clinton
Smash Master
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Meh...can't really be helped...I'm pretty sure there are other reasons why Ness doesn't get that much rep.If we had better tourney placings, we might get more respect. The Marios refuse to even discuss us.
ViceGrip
Smash Journeyman
The marios have worse tournament representation than ness lmao. there's pretty much just Boss :/. 6:4 sounds right for marth. Other charcaters have a harder time vs marth than ness, it just happens to be Ness's hardest matchup.
AdmantNESS
Smash Ace
Would you mind giving your opinion on the various aspects of the matchup please Vicegrip?
Maybe 2 kills moves that can be used consistantly? He's difficult to master? "Bad" recovery, as defined by people that don't know much.
Oh well, we can still try our best. Who's up next, since the Marths refuse to discuss this?
_clinton
Smash Master
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Ness is more mobile than Marth is IMO (Movement speed happens to be faster for Marth in the air, but Ness is a bit more floaty compared to Marth while still having overall pretty good movement speed)
That is one thing I feel...
But I was thinking more along the lines of what the Mother fanbase in general happens to be...I mean face it...more people know certain characters better from the things they are from...
That is one thing I feel...
In all fairness...saving one of those kill moves and keeping it fresh is pretty easy to do...and if you are like me...you also happen to save 2 other kill moves Ness has pretty well besides the Bthrow.
But I was thinking more along the lines of what the Mother fanbase in general happens to be...I mean face it...more people know certain characters better from the things they are from...
And his recovery isn't exactly that great. Nair and Bair can probably do some damage.
used ViceGrip!
Oh, and Clinton. When I said kill move, I completely forget about bthrow. Offstage nair and bair. Maybe uair and fsmash, but not that often.
used ViceGrip!Oh, and Clinton. When I said kill move, I completely forget about bthrow. Offstage nair and bair. Maybe uair and fsmash, but not that often.