• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

PKAY FIAH! ~ Ness MU Discussion [INDEX PAGE + Various Discussions]

_clinton

_clinton

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
3,189
Straked said:
And his recovery isn't exactly that great. Nair and Bair can probably do some damage.

:099: used ViceGrip!

Oh, and Clinton. When I said kill move, I completely forget about bthrow. Offstage nair and bair. Maybe uair and fsmash, but not that often.
Click to expand...
Well comparing Marth's recovery to Ness' you have to look at a few certain areas...

Ness' is more open and mobile once again...but Marth has some nice safe spots on his, but it isn't really that hard to read...overall though if one is going to gimp the other...I'd say Ness has a somewhat higher chance at it...
 
YagamiLight

YagamiLight

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 2, 2008
Messages
2,411
Location
California
Straked said:
If we had better tourney placings, we might get more respect. The Marios refuse to even discuss us. :evil:
Click to expand...
To be fair, I'd rather be totally ignored that get the general reaction that Ike receives.

"You can guys come if you'd like. We have the advantage on you anyways. No no, don't bother trying to tell us otherwise. Just go with the flow."

Ness is just underrated to a large degree by most of SWF, mainly due to the fact that they don't know much about him. Ike, on the other hand, they still don't know much about but they go ahead and state their opinions anyways.

I almost envy you obscure Ness people.
 
_clinton

_clinton

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
3,189
YagamiLight said:
To be fair, I'd rather be totally ignored that get the general reaction that Ike receives.

"You can guys come if you'd like. We have the advantage on you anyways. No no, don't bother trying to tell us otherwise. Just go with the flow."

Ness is just underrated to a large degree by most of SWF, mainly due to the fact that they don't know much about him. Ike, on the other hand, they still don't know much about but they go ahead and state their opinions anyways.

I almost envy you obscure Ness people.
Click to expand...
Poor Ike's...but you are aware that is the same with Ness as well to a point...I mean that is why people aren't coming...

Its the same with Bowser and several others as well though...
 
:mad:

:mad:

Bird Law Aficionado
BRoomer
Joined
Dec 14, 2008
Messages
12,585
Location
Florida
3DS FC
3351-4631-7285
Well, both Ness and Ike have bad recoveries, but Ike has plenty more kill moves. It's actually the same way with us, we don't have many matchup advantages.

Worst part is, some people assume they have us beat 70:30, some times 80:20.
To be fair, our worst matchup may very well be 70:30. Ness really isn't that bad in the hands of a good player, or someone that works hard. Ike only takes so much abuse because he's a force to be reckoned with in teams, and most people that aren't competitive just use his powerful smashes.
 
Uffe

Uffe

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 14, 2008
Messages
5,500
Location
Fresno
_clinton said:
Poor Ike's...but you are aware that is the same with Ness as well to a point...I mean that is why people aren't coming...

Its the same with Bowser and several others as well though...
Click to expand...
Poor Ike indeed. But think of it this way. They assume they know the match up but when they face that certain character and get defeated, they'll wonder why or even how it happened. A lot of people still like to say Ness has a horrible recovery. But then when it comes to fighting Ness and they can't seem to edgehog Ness or end up dying because of the attempt, that's when they really should take the time to realize that doing so isn't that simple as it sounds. You can read a lot of info, but experience is where it really happens.
 
PKNintendo

PKNintendo

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 9, 2008
Messages
3,679
Well, thanks for the input Ness mains. Until further outside help, Marth is at 6-4. Who's next?
 
:mad:

:mad:

Bird Law Aficionado
BRoomer
Joined
Dec 14, 2008
Messages
12,585
Location
Florida
3DS FC
3351-4631-7285
I say we do Diddy and get it over with, since he's still undecided. Any other suggestions?
 
AdmantNESS

AdmantNESS

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 9, 2007
Messages
553
Location
TX
In my edit of this post, Im going to list the characters remaning and the ones that need a revisit alongside my comments.

EDIT: Characters Remaining:
Wolf
Pokemon Trainer
Mr. Game & Watch

Characters that need revisiting:

Link: Very brief discussion that was(6 posts) but if you want Link mainers input, you'll have to go to Allisbrawl since they moved there.

Snake: They didn't respond except one. More input from them would be nice but they ignored our topic.

Marth: Ditto, except none of them came.

Diddy: We need a consensus. We had their input but our(_clinton) stubborness scared off one of them.

Captain Falcon: We had 2 Mainers come here I believe, but there was an interruption by G/Ws.

Olimar: We only had 1 Olimar come and there a MK tangent.

Ganondorf: No input from the Ganon mains and no ratio listed in the opening post, but some nice points were brought up regardless as well as some ratios.
 
AdmantNESS

AdmantNESS

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 9, 2007
Messages
553
Location
TX
I don't like Diddy either. Those bananas can really piss off people. I'm a mellow guy but sheesh, cmon now. Those bananas...

But yeah, those are the characters left. We also have to start filling that form out you made. Or do they have to fill it out? In any case, we discussed most of the characters already.
 
_clinton

_clinton

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
3,189
AdmantNESS said:
I don't like Diddy either. Those bananas can really piss off people. I'm a mellow guy but sheesh, cmon now. Those bananas...

But yeah, those are the characters left. We also have to start filling that form out you made. Or do they have to fill it out? In any case, we discussed most of the characters already.
Click to expand...
I'm not talking about the bananas...just monkeys in general...
 
AvariceX

AvariceX

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
2,116
Location
London, Ontario, Canada
NNID
AvariceX
3DS FC
1177-8001-5699
I just realized it would be really cool if the first post had links to the pages of discussion for each character...

Specifically, I want to read the ZSS discussion; I've been getting consistently 3-stocked by my buddy's ZSS as Ness, then I switched to CF and 2-stocked him....so I dunno what I'm doing wrong against her. Maybe the matchup needs revisiting anyway (I know one example is not enough to make that claim valid). So yeah...anyone know what pages the ZSS discussion was on?
 
Brinzy

Brinzy

Godfather of the Crimean Mafia
Joined
May 29, 2008
Messages
3,672
Location
Alexandria, VA
NNID
Brinzy
_clinton said:
Nah
Click to expand...
I still don't get your reasoning on that, though. Why does Marth deserve to be 60:40 against someone like Ness but gets a larger advantage against characters like Kirby and Pikachu? I just don't get it anymore.
 
Neon Ness

Neon Ness

Designated Procrastinator
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
3,631
Successor of Raphael said:
I still don't get your reasoning on that, though. Why does Marth deserve to be 60:40 against someone like Ness but gets a larger advantage against characters like Kirby and Pikachu? I just don't get it anymore.
Click to expand...
Prolly cause matchup ratio numbers are a load of
. As far as I've seen they only cause unneeded confusion and make people mad who disagree on them. The presence of numbers seems to make people want to compare matchups as if they are quantifiable substances. Which they aren't.

Just an old man's humble opinion...
 
Brinzy

Brinzy

Godfather of the Crimean Mafia
Joined
May 29, 2008
Messages
3,672
Location
Alexandria, VA
NNID
Brinzy
Maybe we should be like a few other boards and eliminate the numbers for now. We think we have an even/advantage match-up on everyone anyway.
 
Levitas

Levitas

the moon
Joined
Jul 20, 2007
Messages
5,734
Location
Ann Arbor, MI
I disagree.

Numbers are a decent system, and removing information will take some conflict between boards out at the expense of... removing information.
 
Brinzy

Brinzy

Godfather of the Crimean Mafia
Joined
May 29, 2008
Messages
3,672
Location
Alexandria, VA
NNID
Brinzy
Because we really need to be making the numbers a focus of a match-up.

"This match-up is 50:50."
"NO, it's 60:40!"
"50:50!"
"60:40!"

In a case where we argue between a 60:40 and a 65:35, sure, but when people can't even agree on who has some form of advantage or if a fight is even? I think we need to start leaving out numbers on some of the more even fights until things iron out.

Oh well.
 
Neon Ness

Neon Ness

Designated Procrastinator
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
3,631
Levitas said:
I disagree.

Numbers are a decent system, and removing information will take some conflict between boards out at the expense of... removing information.
Click to expand...
But that's just it, I don't even consider the numbers 'information'. They don't add anything that the words written/actual experience gained about the matchup don't.

"X character has better aerial mobility than Y character.
Y character outranges X character on land.
X character's aerials outprioritize Y character's approach options."


"X character has better aerial mobility than Y character.
Y character outranges X character on land.
X character's aerials outprioritze Y character's approach options.
It's freakin' 65-35."

See what I mean? The data tells all. It explains the aspects of the matchup on its own. The last line has absolutely no value whatsoever... Unless I'm missing something here.
 
Levitas

Levitas

the moon
Joined
Jul 20, 2007
Messages
5,734
Location
Ann Arbor, MI
Sort of. The numbers themselves could be thought of as a summary or a method of organization. I don't care whether they stay or go much, but it's nice to have a way to compare how hard captain falcon is to how hard ivysaur is.
 
Neon Ness

Neon Ness

Designated Procrastinator
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
3,631
Hm, I guess they work as a summary... But I figure if someone is really serious about knowing the matchup, they won't mind learning everything there is to know about it (in conjunction with actual gameplay experience). I feel like reading a summary is sort of depriving yourself of information that could give you the edge in a fight...

Well, I don't intend to stop anyone who sees the numbers as useful, I guess. I just find them rather extraneous... and I wish they didn't cause so much animosity...
 
Uffe

Uffe

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 14, 2008
Messages
5,500
Location
Fresno
Well thinking about that Marth main I fought a few days back, I figured that if I could beat his Marth, even by a slight margin, then I'd probably end up losing badly against a really good Marth. I had this in mind today as I went home and I thought of another Marth main that comes here. I played OmegaXF tonight and well, things didn't go so well for me. There was one point I thought I was going to win because I spiked him, but he returned. Either way, without the death grab Marth used to have on Ness, the match ends pretty close.

I wasn't able to beat OmegaXF, but I was pretty close. Perhaps to the point I could have thrown him backwards but couldn't because of the spacing he had. There were times when he knocked me off the stage and I was able to make a surprising comeback. Unfortunately I never won. Still, oddly enough I had fun playing his Marth despite the fact I never won any of the matches. I felt like I was good to be able to keep up with his Marth. There were moments I thought I wasn't going to rack up much damage on him, but I was able to.

Anyway, I think perhaps I made him happy since I gave him a good fight. At least I think I did. Even if I didn't, I felt good because of how well I thought I did. He's actually a pretty cool guy.
 
Shaky

Shaky

Smash Ace
Joined
May 29, 2008
Messages
695
Seems like the whole NESS BOARDS has to beat up OmegaXF to revenge Uffe.

Anyways, I think we should move on to another character now.
 
thesage

thesage

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 26, 2005
Messages
6,774
Location
Arlington, Va
3DS FC
4957-3743-1481
We should list the Marth matchup as 70-30 Ness just so we can anger some ******* who actually care about a non player specific matchup enough to discuss the character matchup. lol.
 
AdmantNESS

AdmantNESS

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 9, 2007
Messages
553
Location
TX
Lucario huh, I should have known I missed someone when I listed the characters left in my earlier post..

So in addition to Lucario, Wolf, G/W and Pokemon Trainer were not discussed in this topic yet. Did we discuss Lucario in this topic? I dont think we did.
 
PK-ow!

PK-ow!

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
1,890
Location
Canada, ON
AdmantNESS said:
Lucario huh, I should have known I missed someone when I listed the characters left in my earlier post..

So in addition to Lucario, Wolf, G/W and Pokemon Trainer were not discussed in this topic yet. Did we discuss Lucario in this topic? I dont think we did.
Click to expand...
Let's talk Wolf.

I don't even know what those guys are doing over there now. Isn't Wolf mid tier?

... I don't know.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom