PKAY FIAH! ~ Ness MU Discussion [INDEX PAGE + Various Discussions]

[AvariceX]

Learn the angles he can throw Waddles at; they're actually really limited (it helps to actually use Dedede here which I've been doing since the start of Brawl anyway XD). There are always blindspots where he is completely unable to hit you with any of his projectiles - generally about half a PK-Fire bolt range away from where his waddle lands; if you stand there and crouch any Gordos should go over you...though it's safer to just shield them.

D3 has the easiest to shield projectile in the game and is also one of the easiest to abuse with the PKT tailwhip; so find a Waddle blindspot and use PKT a lot...also you can set up walls of PK Fire on Waddles (this should be common knowledge by now though I think). Only try to absorb Waddle Doo lasers if you think the D3 doesn't know you can. If he knows he will try to punish you for it, so now it's just a game of yomi where you make him think you're going for the absorb, he comes in to punish and you punish him for it.

edit: easiest waddle dee blindspots to use are lowered floors near walls (like the ones on Delfino)...but Dedede can infinite you against those walls so be really careful and make sure he is not in range to punish you if you want to PKT camp him.

Please don't call my advice pro tips though....I only wish I had that much credibility XD.

Seems like I get worse and worse at this game as time passes =/.

 

[Uffe]

Seems like I get worse and worse at this game as time passes =/.

I'll take this advice. As for getting worse, what makes you think that? If you're new with D3, don't say it seems like you're getting worse since he's a new character for you. Unless he's not. If he isn't, it could be that you're having an off day or landing in a slump or something. Try to stay positive. By the way, I really appreciate the help you're lending. :D

 

[AvariceX]

I think the game dislikes me more than anything. All of the following things happened to me today at a tournament:
-I tripped while standing beside IC's
-Rainbow Cruise glitched or something and blastzoned me while I was standing on a platform doing nothing
-I glided (using MK) into a ROB nair on my last stock (me at 70%, opponent at 170, last stock)...when I didn't even mean to glide
-I somehow failed D3's CG on ROB by accidentally pivot grabbing...twice...in the same match, within 20 seconds, on the last stock

As I mentioned above I've been using Dedede since Brawl's release; he was the first character I mained (the first character I ever played in fact). After some time I just got better with Ness and stopped playing D3 in tourneys except as an occasional counterpick. Getting to tourneys for me though is a 3 hour drive minimum, so it's getting expensive and I'm trying whatever I can to make money now...which includes playing MK in tourney =/.

Anyway...enough of my life story. This summer is packed with tournaments in our area, I'm sure I'll do well at one.

 

[Uffe]

Well if those problems occurred, then it's not you, which is a good thing! Still, with all that happening in one day, that sucks. When tournaments start coming close to home, then things should go well. And don't feel bad if you're using Meta Knight to win tournaments for money. It's understandable! You're playing to win, right? So do just that.

And don't do well at one. Do great at all of them! If you don't do great, it's not the end of the world. Just do your best ask for tips and stuff. :D You can do this, AvariceX!

 

[lain]

It might be slightly less dumb than you think... lain often goes to the CoB, but i don't know if he is among the group of people who would do such things.

DON'T QUOTE ME ON ANYTHING! THE STUFF ABOUT PEOPLE DOING DRUGS TO DO BETTER IN TOURNAMENTS IS ONLY BY WHAT I'VE HEARD, I DONT KNOW FOR A FACT!

Man I do so many drugs at CoB it's ridiculous.

 

[Eagleye893]

I said don't quote me!! lol

 

[AvariceX]

lain you should join the ranks of Nesses...we have magic cake XD.

 

[Cacti]

I'm pretty sure Ref keeps our stash. You'll have to talk to him.

 

[Zero]

Hey Ness boards, the ZSS boards are discussing the matchup, and we'd like your assistance and contribution.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=242818

 

[Man of Popsicle]

Vs. DeDeDe:
PK THUNDARlol.
bat the gordo.
Stay in the air.
PK Fire, shorthop aerial PK Fire, grounded PK Fire, shorthop aerial PK Fire, Grounded PK Fire. Rinse Repeat.
I have some matches vs. a decent D3 if anyone wants me to send them to them.

 

[Cacti]

And remember to space your aerials well... Don't get shieldgrabbed.

 

[GwJ]

The ROB boards are discussing this matchup! Come here and contribute so we don't look like fools.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=8018030

 

[DanGR]

The Olimar boards are discussing Ness as well...

Forget R.O.B!

Come here instead: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=8031668#post8031668

:3

 

[Cacti]

Why are so many people discussing Ness? O_o

 

[NintenJoe]

Why are so many people discussing Ness? O_o

he's really important nowadays

 

[Man of Popsicle]

he's really important nowadays

Yeah thanks to AllisBrawl.


... or they've finished discussing high/mid tiers.

 

[1337-Zero]

Okay, can we please make a new matchup thread? The OP did a very nice job while he was in power, but he's gone now and we need a new thread. I'm very willing to remake this if nobody else will. I'd like nothing more than to offer my help to the Ness boards.

On a side note, Ness vs. Snake is 55:45 slight disadvantage. I'm not the most knowledgeable of players, but I'm almost certain this is the ratio. When this is revived I'll support my opinion.

 

[NintenJoe]

I'll be getting a new match up thread started within the next couple of days. PKNintendo gave me permission.

 

[Brinzy]

In the meantime, come discuss this match-up with us please:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=8074303#post8074303

 

[Pookiablo]

I imagine it's already been discussed before but can anyone point me towards a discussion/guide of Ness' matchup with DK - been playing a DK lately and although I'm just about winning, I don't think I'm going the right way about it necessarily - having a lot of trouble getting past DK's tilts and smashes (they seem to have a load of decent range). I keep finding myself PK firing, which is great if it hits, but it gets stale and predictable after a while!

Any videos would also be greatly appreciated!

 

[$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$]

Because Ness is god tier. lol

 

[AdmantNESS]

I imagine it's already been discussed before but can anyone point me towards a discussion/guide of Ness' matchup with DK - been playing a DK lately and although I'm just about winning, I don't think I'm going the right way about it necessarily - having a lot of trouble getting past DK's tilts and smashes (they seem to have a load of decent range). I keep finding myself PK firing, which is great if it hits, but it gets stale and predictable after a while!

Any videos would also be greatly appreciated!

There were 2 discussions of DK matchup:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5172535#post5172535

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5784631#post5784631

 

[stealth3654]

Hey everyone!

The Sheik boards are currently discussing the Ness vs Sheik match-up here: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=226389&page=48.

Any contributions will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[milesg2g]

Other then Marths infinate CG I don't see how his advantage is that high. When I brawl a Marth user i very rarely lose let alone by more then 1 stock. But then again not all marths brawl the same. But IMO I think PKT spam is worse then CG if performed correctly.

 

[Uffe]

I've had my share of Marth mains. If Marth is losing against Ness, he's probably not that good. The best way to deal with Marth is retreating your attacks and playing defensive. Because he has no projectile, you can make him approach you instead of you approaching him. I still think it's a 60:40 match up, Marth.

I think the Marth boards think it's a 70:30, though. I can't really agree with that, though since Ness was buffed somewhat in Brawl and Marth was slightly nerfed, so things are different. After all, in Melee, Ness isn't that great of a character and Marth was too good of a character that'd just owned him so bad. The best Marth I've ever played, though was OmegaXF. I never beat him unfortunately.

 

[milesg2g]

I've had my share of Marth mains. If Marth is losing against Ness, he's probably not that good. The best way to deal with Marth is retreating your attacks and playing defensive. Because he has no projectile, you can make him approach you instead of you approaching him. I still think it's a 60:40 match up, Marth.

I think the Marth boards think it's a 70:30, though. I can't really agree with that, though since Ness was buffed somewhat in Brawl and Marth was slightly nerfed, so things are different. After all, in Melee, Ness isn't that great of a character and Marth was too good of a character that'd just owned him so bad. The best Marth I've ever played, though was OmegaXF. I never beat him unfortunately.

Well idk how much wifi counts but I brawled w/ Mr.R numerous times. He's like the only 1 that beats me. But when I lose thats because it was a close game, we have pretty much even matches. This could be because we know each others moves and style of fighting pretty well but still. I haven't lost to a Marth main since him so yea

 

[Uffe]

Well idk how much wifi counts but I brawled w/ Mr.R numerous times. He's like the only 1 that beats me. But when I lose thats because it was a close game, we have pretty much even matches. This could be because we know each others moves and style of fighting pretty well but still. I haven't lost to a Marth main since him so yea

I've heard about Mr. R. I'm not sure how good his Marth is, but some do say he has a good Marth. If you do learn the match up, you will have an easier time dealing with him.

 

[phi1ny3]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=221578
Lucarios are discussing whether little boys should or shouldn't play with fire.
Intelligent discussion is appreciated.

 

[thesage]

The Marth vs. Ness matchup is much worse in brawl since Ness can't combo Marth at all now, his recovery is harder to edgeguard, and he 0-deaths Ness from a grab. At least in melee you can punish, outrange/outspace him with 3/4 of your attacks (depends on if they Marth knows how to deal with pk fire and cc running attack), edgeguard him, and not be 0-deathed by a grab.

 

[Uffe]

The Marth vs. Ness matchup is much worse in brawl since Ness can't combo Marth at all now, his recovery is harder to edgeguard, and he 0-deaths Ness from a grab. At least in melee you can punish, outrange/outspace him with 3/4 of your attacks (depends on if they Marth knows how to deal with pk fire and cc running attack), edgeguard him, and not be 0-deathed by a grab.

What do you mean you can't combo Marth? I know this game really has no hitstun for it, but I believe it's possible to do. It's not going to be easy, but it can be pulled off, I think. I'd think he's better at this match up now because unlike Melee, he's not nerfed.

 

[milesg2g]

The Marth vs. Ness matchup is much worse in brawl since Ness can't combo Marth at all now, his recovery is harder to edgeguard, and he 0-deaths Ness from a grab. At least in melee you can punish, outrange/outspace him with 3/4 of your attacks (depends on if they Marth knows how to deal with pk fire and cc running attack), edgeguard him, and not be 0-deathed by a grab.

I've combo'ed Numerous marths with ness, its not as hard as you think especially in brawl. Melee it wasnt so much that you combo marth with ness better it was the simple fact that in melee you could rack up damage so fast because of the games speed and timing. I can name 3 combos you can do on a marth. Here they are:

1. Dthrow+Pkt+fair
2.Pkf+pkf+pkf+uair
3.Fthrow+pkt+fair+fair


And, There you go

 

[thesage]

No way anything involving pk fire will ever combo marth cuz he can spam down-b, counter the pillar, have a hitbox around him the entire time, and take only 3 damage from the pk fire, beside being able to di out of it before the pillar starts up.

Pkt shouldn't work against a Marth that has any form of sentience.

 

[milesg2g]

No way anything involving pk fire will ever combo marth cuz he can spam down-b, counter the pillar, have a hitbox around him the entire time, and take only 3 damage from the pk fire, beside being able to di out of it before the pillar starts up.

Pkt shouldn't work against a Marth that has any form of sentience.

The fact that Marths can spam Down-B counter in pkf doesnt take away from the fact that you can still combo him. If a Marth is spamming Down-B counter while in pkf that gives you time to combo him.
Eg:
The moment marth counters your able to grab him if your close enough.

Also, Pkt can be very useful against marth. The only thing Marth has against PKT is a Dodge air like everyone else. If you know how to use PKT you can easily wrap it around him using the tail to hurt him while he's trying to dodge air or when his dodge is finishing. PKT is a very punishable Move that ALL ness users should use on Marth after he CG's.

 

[thesage]

Marth can still di out of pk fire, like everybody else. He can also up-b you if he sees you getting close to him to interrupt you, as well as having the down-b trick. He's the last character you want to use pk fire on. You should never rely on using pk fire in the first place as all good players will di out and punish you.

Marth has range on all his aerials and all of the outprioritize pkt. How are you supposed to use pkt on Marth after he cgs you?

Stop playing wifi guys.

 

[milesg2g]

Marth can still di out of pk fire, like everybody else. He can also up-b you if he sees you getting close to him to interrupt you, as well as having the down-b trick. He's the last character you want to use pk fire on. You should never rely on using pk fire in the first place as all good players will di out and punish you.

Marth has range on all his aerials and all of the outprioritize pkt. How are you supposed to use pkt on Marth after he cgs you?

Stop playing wifi guys.

Wifi your right about that I have to admit.
but other then the lag I yet to see any other reason why PKT won't work on Marths.
I use pkf maybe 12% of the time on my opponents simply because it's too predictable or mine are for that matter. If you cant see the use of PKT affecting Marths in brawl then the arguments pointless. All I know is one thing though, I don't lose to any other marths on Wifi except Mr.R

 

[phi1ny3]

Marth is garbage on wifi lol.

 

[Uffe]

Marth is garbage on wifi lol.

Most characters are, actually. And I also have to agree with this. I can't ever complete his forward B on lag-fi. I just spam the first two hits repeatedly every time and then I end up getting hit instead.

 

[Ref]

Love.

This is love.

Love is this.

 

[Eagleye893]

@ref: .... I know you have a point in what you said, yet I don't know what it is...

Wifi sucks. precision is what is needed to get a perfect game, slight input lag and overall lag distorts one's timing, wifi=lag; therefore, I can't get a perfect game because of wifi. I can't and haven't been able to play anyone irl for several months..............(continues elipses)

although I am able to adapt slightly to the timing of wifi, sometimes I am unable to get it perfectly (not perfect shielding; not getting the right trajectory of pkt2; getting slightly off with pkt; not getting my psimag off just far enough away from a person about to attack, causing the wind to help nothing; buffering a random attack that I don't want to do, causing lots of lag and killing me sometimes), etc.).

 

[Uffe]

If you have only wifi and nobody else, can't go out to tournaments, then you're better off using wifi. CPU's never helped anybody get better.