Ingulit
Ing-u-lit
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-=- POTASSIUM OVERDOSE -=-
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Too many Bananas can be a bad thing
V. 0.5
-=- POTASSIUM OVERDOSE -=-
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Too many Bananas can be a bad thing
V. 0.5
We’ve all heard it before: in countless match-up threads the point is raised that “if you can use Diddy’s Bananas against him, the match-up is easy,” but rarely is what other characters can do with our Bananas even mentioned. Indeed, when this point is raised, it seems like Diddy mains don’t even care if, or even how, they can use Bananas against us. For example, did you know that we’re not the only ones with a Single Banana Lock, that Sheik has discovered one too? What about Ganondorf; did you know he has the real “Banana Choke,” which can lead to a GUARANTEED WIZARD PUNCH if we unknowingly buffer a get-up attack? It’s this not knowing, this ignorance towards the other character’s attempts with Bananas that will ultimately get us punched in the face. And with Diddy’s new spot in the top of the tier list, you can be sure the other character boards are working to try and break our Banana game to bring us back down. While our current strategies are working well, a character that might have even a terrible match-up against us could suddenly become a decent counter because they discovered a Banana tech we couldn’t adjust to in time. Therefore, it is the goal of this thread ensure we Diddy mains know what the other boards are doing, so that we’ll be better prepared for when the opponent “uses Diddy’s Bananas against him.”
This will be a list all known Banana techs exclusive to characters other than Diddy, and to serve as a discussion about how to avoid/nullify the opponent’s ability to use these techs.
This will be organized by first listing what characters can perform certain general techniques (Dribbling, Banana Locking, etc). Then the character techs will first be split into two categories under their respective characters: ones we know have Banana techs and ones we don't. These two categories will then be organized by the characters' positions on the Tier List 3.0. And to spell out the obvious: Diddy Kong will not be covered
The techs and combos listed here will be those that have unconventional approaches, are not often noticed or encountered, or are particularly devastating if the opponent should pull the tech/combo off. Glide Toss > F-Smash combos are rather well known, and most Diddys will be looking out for that kind of approach when facing characters who can do that, simply because we all have encountered these approaches before (and use them!). If we are caught off-guard by something weird the opponent does with a Banana, then it goes here to be discussed.
I must conclude by stressing that this will NOT be the only update of this thread (as of 7/20/09, an entire section is missing!); I only play a select few characters and only know of so many Banana techs. For this to succeed, we must all work together to collect the techs other characters are researching so that we may defend ourselves when the match-up comes around. In short: I NEED YOUR HELP. This cannot work without it.
And on the noting of Player-1, I also want to stress that we are simply gathering what the other character boards have done, NOT trying to advance their Banana game against us. This is NOT a research thread, but more of a complement to the match-up thread with a focus on Bananas. We just want to know what they know what they can do, not tell them new things
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-= UPDATES =-
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7/20/09-= UPDATES =-
-=-=-=-=-=-
- Thread started, still in a WIP phase.
- Thread begins at V. 0.3
- General Techs is not yet up and running.
- Added Sheik's Single Banana Lock tech.
- Added Ganondorf's Banana Choke tech.
- Added the "Has no Banana Techs" and "Unchecked" sections
7/21/09
- Cleaned up the format
- Change in format brings thread to V. 0.5
- Added the "Damaged/Pain Caused" sections
- Added the lists for Dribbling, Single-, and Double Banana Locking
- Moved Captain Falcon to the "Has no Banana Techs" section
- Added Snake's Wavebounced "Z-Drop" Grenade Pull tech
- Added Ganondorf's HRC Banana Choke Starter tech
- Added Bowser's Klaw Hop Over Bananas tech
- Added Bowser's Banana Bomber tech
- Added Sonic's Spin Dash Over Bananas tech
- Added Sonic's Spring Regrabbing tech
7/22/09
- Corrected some consistency issues in the Character Specific Techs section
- Fixed the order of the Character Specific Techs section
- Added Snake's Double Drop Tech Chase tech
- Added Zero Suit Samus's Stun Gun Chain tech
8/1/09
- Updated Snake's Double Drop/Banana Tech Chase tech
8/13/09
- Added Pit's Wingdashing tech
- Added Squirtle's Itemplane tech
- Added Squirtle's Hydro Tossing tech
- Added Yoshi's DJC Item Throw tech
- Updated Ganondorf's HRC Banana Choke Starter tech
9/9/09
- Added Zero Suit Samus's Stun Banana Choke tech
1/10/10
- Added Fox's Drillshine Banana Combo tech
- Added Wolf's Double-Trip Cross-Up Combo tech
1/23/10
- Added Donkey Kong's Cargo Banana Choke tech
1/29/10
- Added the Banana Choke Chaingrab section under General Techs
- Added Captain Falcon's Knee Combo tech
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-= GENERAL TECHS =-
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I'll make these pretty later
-= GENERAL TECHS =-
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I'll make these pretty later
List of Characters who can Banana Choke Chaingrab
NOBODY!!
If you're about to post any combo involving Grab Release > Banana Slip > Re-Grab, DON'T. It is NOT a combo for any character; you can be sure we researched the **** out of it.
EXCEPTION: DK's Cargo Banana Choke is legit.
Snake (Hard to do; only backwards)
.
Lucario
.
Zero Suit Samus (Hard to do)
.
Mario
.
Samus
.
Ganondorf (it sucks)
Zero Suit Samus (?)
.
Wario (?)
A description and video of this is under Shiek's section; these characters all do it the same way
Mr. Game and Watch
.
Lucario (?)
.
Sheik
.
Captain Falcon
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-= CHARACTER SPECIFIC TECHS =-
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-= CHARACTER SPECIFIC TECHS =-
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Snake
Wavebounced "Z-Drop" Grenade Pull
OP: Susa's Post
Conditions:
Snake must have a Banana in hand
Description:
If Snake pulls out a Grenade while holding a Banana, he'll drop the Banana in a manner very like Z-Dropping. The difference here is that if he pulls a Grenade out in the air, he can B-Reverse and Wavebounce the Grenade pull WHILE Z-Dropping the Banana as a defensive maneuver.
Damage/Pain Caused:
Makes juggling Snake harder
How to avoid/punish:
...
Double Drop/Banana Tech Chase
OP: Susa's Post
Conditions:
Snake must have a Banana in hand
Description:
An application of Double Dropping a Banana (Short Hop > Z-Drop > Trip Opponent > Instant Throw the Bounced Banana Down again), Snake's Double Drop lead directly into his Grab, and therefore his D-Throw. When he uses the D-Throw, the Banana is now behind you, and if you roll into it, you will trip and (if the Snake predicts right) eat a full F-Tilt. OR, Snake can run up Pivot Grab you again, and if you decide to roll backwards AGAIN you'll slip again and start the whole mess over again. The Grab > Banana Slip chain can also be started by Snake using a Forward Glide Toss > Boosted Pivot Grab.
Damage/Pain Caused:
Damage: 41% if F-Tilted after rolling into Banana
Damage: A lot if Pivot Grabbed out of the Banana slip and you continue to roll into it
Removes the option of safely rolling behind Snake out of the D-Throw, making you predictable
How to Avoid/Punish:
If you think you see this coming, turn around; it's harder for Snake to do this off of our back. In any case, Snake is very slow when approaching for something like this, and you shouldn't be letting him this close to you anyway. Just F-Air him if he's in front of you or B-Air him if he's in back. The way he'll usually get you with this is if he predicts you rolling behind him, so avoid that if possible. As for the Glide Toss setup, simply avoid the Glide Toss like you normally would.
OP: Susa's Post
Conditions:
Snake must have a Banana in hand
Description:
If Snake pulls out a Grenade while holding a Banana, he'll drop the Banana in a manner very like Z-Dropping. The difference here is that if he pulls a Grenade out in the air, he can B-Reverse and Wavebounce the Grenade pull WHILE Z-Dropping the Banana as a defensive maneuver.
Damage/Pain Caused:
Makes juggling Snake harder
How to avoid/punish:
...
Double Drop/Banana Tech Chase
OP: Susa's Post
Conditions:
Snake must have a Banana in hand
Description:
An application of Double Dropping a Banana (Short Hop > Z-Drop > Trip Opponent > Instant Throw the Bounced Banana Down again), Snake's Double Drop lead directly into his Grab, and therefore his D-Throw. When he uses the D-Throw, the Banana is now behind you, and if you roll into it, you will trip and (if the Snake predicts right) eat a full F-Tilt. OR, Snake can run up Pivot Grab you again, and if you decide to roll backwards AGAIN you'll slip again and start the whole mess over again. The Grab > Banana Slip chain can also be started by Snake using a Forward Glide Toss > Boosted Pivot Grab.
Damage/Pain Caused:
Damage: 41% if F-Tilted after rolling into Banana
Damage: A lot if Pivot Grabbed out of the Banana slip and you continue to roll into it
Removes the option of safely rolling behind Snake out of the D-Throw, making you predictable
How to Avoid/Punish:
If you think you see this coming, turn around; it's harder for Snake to do this off of our back. In any case, Snake is very slow when approaching for something like this, and you shouldn't be letting him this close to you anyway. Just F-Air him if he's in front of you or B-Air him if he's in back. The way he'll usually get you with this is if he predicts you rolling behind him, so avoid that if possible. As for the Glide Toss setup, simply avoid the Glide Toss like you normally would.
Zero Suit Samus
Stun Gun Chain
OP: Susa's Post
Conditions:
Works at any % (easier at higher percents)
Zero Suit Samus must have a Banana in hand
Description:
If Zamus gets off a Stun Gun while holding a Banana, she can immediately Glide Toss forwards to trip you out of the stun animation and then start a D-Smash chain/follow-up.
Damage/Pain Caused:
Damage: 31%+
Sets up a D-Smash follow-up
How to Avoid/Punish:
...
Stun Banana Choke
OP: ZSS infinite on Diddy
Vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVsYrsefqCQ
Vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lHyIWqLWfg
Conditions:
Diddy has at least 28% (Training Mode percent)
Zero Suit Samus must have a Banana in her control right behind you
Zero Suit Samus must be in very specific spacing
Description:
This is essentially a more advanced (and much more painful) version of what Diddy mains used to call the Banana Choke. Zamus's combines Banana trips, her stunning D-Smash, and her tether Grab to keep the chain working. This is an infinite until the Banana disappears, meaning if the Banana was relatively fresh (or if you were at a high percent to begin with), this is a to-death combo. If she has a Banana on the ground near her and is near you (and you have at least 28%), this is the chain to watch out for:
D-Smash > Banana Pick-up > Banana Throw > Grab > Pummel > Grounded Grab Release > D-Smash (> D-Smash) > Dash Grab > Pummel > Grounded Grab Release > ... > D-Smash (> D-Smash) > Follow-up
Note that this is easily done out of a JCT or Stun Gun, both of which are relatively easy setups for Zamus to pull off. The reason this needs to be used once Diddy is past 28% is because the D-Smash at higher percents will keep Diddy held still when the Banana is thrown at him, creating perfect spacing for the rest of the combo. Below 28% Diddy will break free of the D-Smash's stun quick enough for the Banana to hit him as though it hit him in the air (IE, it won't trip him).
Damage/Pain Caused:
Damage: A lot of %
Can be a to-death combo
How to Avoid/Punish:
Once you're caught in it, know the Grab Release > Banana Trip > D-Smash is not a true combo (just like the Banana Choke), and you can roll away from ZSS in the amount of time before the D-Smash comes out. Do so quickly, though, or you'll fall right back into the combo again.
OP: Susa's Post
Conditions:
Works at any % (easier at higher percents)
Zero Suit Samus must have a Banana in hand
Description:
If Zamus gets off a Stun Gun while holding a Banana, she can immediately Glide Toss forwards to trip you out of the stun animation and then start a D-Smash chain/follow-up.
Damage/Pain Caused:
Damage: 31%+
Sets up a D-Smash follow-up
How to Avoid/Punish:
...
Stun Banana Choke
OP: ZSS infinite on Diddy
Vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVsYrsefqCQ
Vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lHyIWqLWfg
Conditions:
Diddy has at least 28% (Training Mode percent)
Zero Suit Samus must have a Banana in her control right behind you
Zero Suit Samus must be in very specific spacing
Description:
This is essentially a more advanced (and much more painful) version of what Diddy mains used to call the Banana Choke. Zamus's combines Banana trips, her stunning D-Smash, and her tether Grab to keep the chain working. This is an infinite until the Banana disappears, meaning if the Banana was relatively fresh (or if you were at a high percent to begin with), this is a to-death combo. If she has a Banana on the ground near her and is near you (and you have at least 28%), this is the chain to watch out for:
D-Smash > Banana Pick-up > Banana Throw > Grab > Pummel > Grounded Grab Release > D-Smash (> D-Smash) > Dash Grab > Pummel > Grounded Grab Release > ... > D-Smash (> D-Smash) > Follow-up
Note that this is easily done out of a JCT or Stun Gun, both of which are relatively easy setups for Zamus to pull off. The reason this needs to be used once Diddy is past 28% is because the D-Smash at higher percents will keep Diddy held still when the Banana is thrown at him, creating perfect spacing for the rest of the combo. Below 28% Diddy will break free of the D-Smash's stun quick enough for the Banana to hit him as though it hit him in the air (IE, it won't trip him).
Damage/Pain Caused:
Damage: A lot of %
Can be a to-death combo
How to Avoid/Punish:
Once you're caught in it, know the Grab Release > Banana Trip > D-Smash is not a true combo (just like the Banana Choke), and you can roll away from ZSS in the amount of time before the D-Smash comes out. Do so quickly, though, or you'll fall right back into the combo again.
Pit
Wingdashing
Conditions:
A Banana must be nearby Pit
Description:
Wingdashing is a well-known but not-often used Advanced Technique for Pit. To do it, you Jump > Up-B > D-Air in rapid succession. While Wingdashing, you can move left or right, which looks very much like the old Wavedash. Because of the use of D-Air and because using Up-B close to the ground allows Pit to move over Bananas without being tripped, this can be a way for Pit to grab grounded (or even thrown) Bananas. His Up-B also produces Windboxes that will push you back if you are close.
Damage/Pain Caused:
Pit picks up a Banana for use
Windboxes can push you back or negate moves
How to Avoid/Punish:
...
Conditions:
A Banana must be nearby Pit
Description:
Wingdashing is a well-known but not-often used Advanced Technique for Pit. To do it, you Jump > Up-B > D-Air in rapid succession. While Wingdashing, you can move left or right, which looks very much like the old Wavedash. Because of the use of D-Air and because using Up-B close to the ground allows Pit to move over Bananas without being tripped, this can be a way for Pit to grab grounded (or even thrown) Bananas. His Up-B also produces Windboxes that will push you back if you are close.
Damage/Pain Caused:
Pit picks up a Banana for use
Windboxes can push you back or negate moves
How to Avoid/Punish:
...
Donkey Kong
Cargo Banana Choke
OP: Luigi player's Post
Vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rq9PcOYrzOU#t=2m26s
Conditions:
There must be a nearby Banana under DK's control
Description:
Donkey Kong has his own version of the Banana Choke Chaingrab (the Grab Release-into-Banana Choke, not Ganondorf's AT) where he puts you into a Cargo hold and lets you go near a Banana. The Cargo's Grab Release animation is much shorter than other Grab Releases, allowing DK to re-grab Diddy before he can react. Once Diddy is at a high percent, DK can also finish Diddy off by using a D-Smash instead of a re-grab.
Damage/Pain Caused:
Damage: Varies by number of re-grabs and the use of D-Smash
Leads into a kill move
How to Avoid/Punish:
This one is obvious: don't get grabbed. Once you've been grabbed, take comfort in the fact that the Banana disappears fairly quickly, and that you'll be stuck in the Cargo hold longer at higher percents (meaning it may disappear before you're released, meaning he can't get the D-Smash off).
OP: Luigi player's Post
Vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rq9PcOYrzOU#t=2m26s
Conditions:
There must be a nearby Banana under DK's control
Description:
Donkey Kong has his own version of the Banana Choke Chaingrab (the Grab Release-into-Banana Choke, not Ganondorf's AT) where he puts you into a Cargo hold and lets you go near a Banana. The Cargo's Grab Release animation is much shorter than other Grab Releases, allowing DK to re-grab Diddy before he can react. Once Diddy is at a high percent, DK can also finish Diddy off by using a D-Smash instead of a re-grab.
Damage/Pain Caused:
Damage: Varies by number of re-grabs and the use of D-Smash
Leads into a kill move
How to Avoid/Punish:
This one is obvious: don't get grabbed. Once you've been grabbed, take comfort in the fact that the Banana disappears fairly quickly, and that you'll be stuck in the Cargo hold longer at higher percents (meaning it may disappear before you're released, meaning he can't get the D-Smash off).
Fox
Drillshine Banana Combo
OP: Banana Combo to Hyphen Smash for use against Diddy Kong
Vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78clPnFWMgU
Conditions:
Fox must have a Banana in hand
Description:
The combo: Full Hop > Z-Drop > Fast Fall + D-Air + Banana Pickup > Shine > Jump Canceled Item Toss > Hyphen Smash
This combo can be used at high percents to lead into a Hyphen Smash, ultimately a kill move. See the thread and video for a better explanation.
Damage/Pain Caused:
Kills from: ~80%-150%
How to Avoid/Punish:
Fox must approach out of a Full Hop directly above you for this combo to work, meaning an up-thrown Banana or an U-Tilt should stop it. If you get caught in it, you can tech the Shine at higher percents, or (according to ADHD) you can DI either the D-Air or the Shine to avoid the Shine or Hyphen Smash, respectively. If the D-Air causes you to trip, however, the Shine is guaranteed, meaning you'll have to tech it or DI it to save yourself.
OP: Banana Combo to Hyphen Smash for use against Diddy Kong
Vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78clPnFWMgU
Conditions:
Fox must have a Banana in hand
Description:
The combo: Full Hop > Z-Drop > Fast Fall + D-Air + Banana Pickup > Shine > Jump Canceled Item Toss > Hyphen Smash
This combo can be used at high percents to lead into a Hyphen Smash, ultimately a kill move. See the thread and video for a better explanation.
Damage/Pain Caused:
Kills from: ~80%-150%
How to Avoid/Punish:
Fox must approach out of a Full Hop directly above you for this combo to work, meaning an up-thrown Banana or an U-Tilt should stop it. If you get caught in it, you can tech the Shine at higher percents, or (according to ADHD) you can DI either the D-Air or the Shine to avoid the Shine or Hyphen Smash, respectively. If the D-Air causes you to trip, however, the Shine is guaranteed, meaning you'll have to tech it or DI it to save yourself.
Wolf
Double-Trip Cross-up Combo
OP: Charged F-Smash + 26% Banana combo for use against Diddy
Vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDBik39ITko
Conditions:
Wolf must have a Banana in hand
Description:
The combo: Short Hop over Diddy so that you'll land behind him > Throw the Banana down so it hits him in the "front" > The Banana will push Diddy backwards as he trips > Land behind Diddy and use Down-B > Diddy will be pushed back the other direction and will trip on the Banana again > Charged F-Smash or Hyphen Smash
This is a guaranteed combo at any percent due to Wolf's Shine's fixed knockback. This combo causes you to trip twice, allowing Wolf to tack on some damage and land a charged F-Smash or a Hyphen Smash after the second trip. This is a kill combo at any percent over ~120% if they use Hyphen Smash.
Damage/Pain Caused:
Damage: ~26%
Kills from: ~120%+
How to Avoid/Punish:
Wolf must short hop over you with very specific spacing in order to get this to work, so keeping Wolf at bay with Bananas and Peanuts might hurt his ability to get in range. Once you're in the combo, you're stuck, so start buffering a get-up attack or a regular stand-up in the hopes that the Wolf will have charged his F-Smash for too long.
OP: Charged F-Smash + 26% Banana combo for use against Diddy
Vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDBik39ITko
Conditions:
Wolf must have a Banana in hand
Description:
The combo: Short Hop over Diddy so that you'll land behind him > Throw the Banana down so it hits him in the "front" > The Banana will push Diddy backwards as he trips > Land behind Diddy and use Down-B > Diddy will be pushed back the other direction and will trip on the Banana again > Charged F-Smash or Hyphen Smash
This is a guaranteed combo at any percent due to Wolf's Shine's fixed knockback. This combo causes you to trip twice, allowing Wolf to tack on some damage and land a charged F-Smash or a Hyphen Smash after the second trip. This is a kill combo at any percent over ~120% if they use Hyphen Smash.
Damage/Pain Caused:
Damage: ~26%
Kills from: ~120%+
How to Avoid/Punish:
Wolf must short hop over you with very specific spacing in order to get this to work, so keeping Wolf at bay with Bananas and Peanuts might hurt his ability to get in range. Once you're in the combo, you're stuck, so start buffering a get-up attack or a regular stand-up in the hopes that the Wolf will have charged his F-Smash for too long.
Sonic
Spin Dash Over Bananas
Conditions:
None
Description:
This one is simple, and everyone should know it. Sonic can go over a Banana and not trip when he uses one of his Spin Dashes.
Damage/Pain Caused:
He won't be tripped by grounded Bananas
How to Avoid/Punish:
Sonic can still be tripped out of a Spin Dash by a thrown Banana, so just keep one in hand in case he tries to approach.
Spring Regrabbing
OP: BlazingKatakiri's Post
Conditions:
Sonic must have a Banana in hand (or you must have recently thrown one upwards)
Description:
This is mostly a mindgame, though it probably has some juggling uses. Sonic can throw a Banana upwards and immediately catch it with his Up-B. He can also use this tactic to catch Bananas that WE threw upwards.
Damage/Pain Caused:
Potential Mindgame
Can catch your up-thrown Bananas
How to Avoid/Punish:
...
Conditions:
None
Description:
This one is simple, and everyone should know it. Sonic can go over a Banana and not trip when he uses one of his Spin Dashes.
Damage/Pain Caused:
He won't be tripped by grounded Bananas
How to Avoid/Punish:
Sonic can still be tripped out of a Spin Dash by a thrown Banana, so just keep one in hand in case he tries to approach.
Spring Regrabbing
OP: BlazingKatakiri's Post
Conditions:
Sonic must have a Banana in hand (or you must have recently thrown one upwards)
Description:
This is mostly a mindgame, though it probably has some juggling uses. Sonic can throw a Banana upwards and immediately catch it with his Up-B. He can also use this tactic to catch Bananas that WE threw upwards.
Damage/Pain Caused:
Potential Mindgame
Can catch your up-thrown Bananas
How to Avoid/Punish:
...
Sheik
Single Banana Lock
OP: InnocentRoad's Sheik tech vid things
Vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHHb_JRmmTk
Conditions:
Works at any %
Sheik must have a Banana in hand
Description:
While I'm not convinced this is frame-perfect, this is a scary tactic if a Sheik player has mastered it. Like our own Single Nana Lock, it appears quite hard to do consistently, but it leads into painful follow-ups if landed.
Damage/Pain Caused:
Damage: You're ****ed
Leads into a ton of combos, but you'll be at such a high percent that a Mario D-Tilt could kill you
How to Avoid/Punish:
...
OP: InnocentRoad's Sheik tech vid things
Vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHHb_JRmmTk
Conditions:
Works at any %
Sheik must have a Banana in hand
Description:
While I'm not convinced this is frame-perfect, this is a scary tactic if a Sheik player has mastered it. Like our own Single Nana Lock, it appears quite hard to do consistently, but it leads into painful follow-ups if landed.
Damage/Pain Caused:
Damage: You're ****ed
Leads into a ton of combos, but you'll be at such a high percent that a Mario D-Tilt could kill you
How to Avoid/Punish:
...
Bowser
Klaw Hop Over Bananas
Conditions:
None
Description:
Bowser can use his Klaw Hop (that is, his ISJR using his Side-B repeatedly) to avoid landing on a Banana, and thereby not be tripped.
Damage/Pain Caused:
He won't be tripped by grounded Bananas
How to Avoid/Punish:
Peanut volleys and thrown Bananas will take Bowser down to the ground, where he'll trip on the Banana.
Banana Bomber
OP: Susa's Post
Conditions:
Bowser must have a Banana in hand
Description:
While in the air, Bowser Z-Drops the Banana, and while you are tripped, he lands and uses Down-B. The Down-B will hit you into the slam, which is a guaranteed kill move at relatively low percents.
Damage/Pain Caused:
Damage: 28%
Kills from: 100%-110%
How to Avoid/Punish:
...
Conditions:
None
Description:
Bowser can use his Klaw Hop (that is, his ISJR using his Side-B repeatedly) to avoid landing on a Banana, and thereby not be tripped.
Damage/Pain Caused:
He won't be tripped by grounded Bananas
How to Avoid/Punish:
Peanut volleys and thrown Bananas will take Bowser down to the ground, where he'll trip on the Banana.
Banana Bomber
OP: Susa's Post
Conditions:
Bowser must have a Banana in hand
Description:
While in the air, Bowser Z-Drops the Banana, and while you are tripped, he lands and uses Down-B. The Down-B will hit you into the slam, which is a guaranteed kill move at relatively low percents.
Damage/Pain Caused:
Damage: 28%
Kills from: 100%-110%
How to Avoid/Punish:
...
Squirtle
Itemplane
OP: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=230879
Conditions:
Squirtle must have a Banana in hand
Description:
This is an application of the ability to use an F-Smash while holding a Banana. While Squirtle is in his Dash turnaround animation, he can start holding Attack without Jabbing or in any way interrupting the animation. This means Squirtle can then press the C-Stick forward to start charging an F-Smash, just like the normal application. Unfortunately, that's not the end of the story; by holding Attack during the Dash turnaround animation and then inputting the commands for a Hyrdoplane F-Smash, Squirtle can perform a huge slide (all the way across Smashville, for length reference) while charging his F-Smash, which, when Squirtle lets go of Attack, will cancel the slide at that point and unleash the F-Smash. That allows him to approach from very far away with a Banana in hand and still hit us with a powerful smash. Squirtle also gets Super Armor frames during the F-Smash, which can make this further irritating.
Damage/Pain Caused:
One charged F-Smash to the face; varying percents
Squritle gets Super Armor frames during the F-Smash
Can be used from very long distances in a very short amount of time
Can be used as an excellent fake-out if one is not careful
How to Avoid/Punish:
...
Hydro Tossing
Conditions:
Squirtle must have a Banana in hand
Description:
Squirtle does a standard Hydroplane (IE, slides a huge distance across the stage out of a Dash turnaround animation) but instead of U-Smashing, he throws the item sort of like a ridiculously long Glide Toss.
Damage/Pain Caused:
The Banana will trip Diddy
Squirtle can follow up with an attack after closing in from a long distance to capitalize on the Banana trip
How to Avoid/Punish:
...
OP: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=230879
Conditions:
Squirtle must have a Banana in hand
Description:
This is an application of the ability to use an F-Smash while holding a Banana. While Squirtle is in his Dash turnaround animation, he can start holding Attack without Jabbing or in any way interrupting the animation. This means Squirtle can then press the C-Stick forward to start charging an F-Smash, just like the normal application. Unfortunately, that's not the end of the story; by holding Attack during the Dash turnaround animation and then inputting the commands for a Hyrdoplane F-Smash, Squirtle can perform a huge slide (all the way across Smashville, for length reference) while charging his F-Smash, which, when Squirtle lets go of Attack, will cancel the slide at that point and unleash the F-Smash. That allows him to approach from very far away with a Banana in hand and still hit us with a powerful smash. Squirtle also gets Super Armor frames during the F-Smash, which can make this further irritating.
Damage/Pain Caused:
One charged F-Smash to the face; varying percents
Squritle gets Super Armor frames during the F-Smash
Can be used from very long distances in a very short amount of time
Can be used as an excellent fake-out if one is not careful
How to Avoid/Punish:
...
Hydro Tossing
Conditions:
Squirtle must have a Banana in hand
Description:
Squirtle does a standard Hydroplane (IE, slides a huge distance across the stage out of a Dash turnaround animation) but instead of U-Smashing, he throws the item sort of like a ridiculously long Glide Toss.
Damage/Pain Caused:
The Banana will trip Diddy
Squirtle can follow up with an attack after closing in from a long distance to capitalize on the Banana trip
How to Avoid/Punish:
...
Yoshi
DJC Item Throw
Conditions:
Yoshi must have a Banana in hand
Description:
Yoshi can cancel the vertical momentum of his second jump at any time by using either a Special move or an Item throw; this is called Double Jump Canceling, or DJC. By doing this, Yoshi can obtain much horizontal momentum, which is particularly notable when he uses DJC close to the ground. Yoshi can use this at any time during a short hop, be it empty or after an aerial such as B-Air. By throwing a Banana with this technique, Yoshi can safely retreat or approach after using a short hop option and then follow with a Jab if one Spot Dodges the Banana or with a Down-B for a kill at higher percentages.
Damage/Pain Caused:
Damage: Potentially 20%-ish
Leads into a kill move
Allows Yoshi to space our attacks
Can be mixed up with Neural-B to switch between a Banana throw and essentially an air Grab
How to Avoid/Punish:
To keep this basic, have a second Banana out and use it to stop Yoshi from approaching with this.
Conditions:
Yoshi must have a Banana in hand
Description:
Yoshi can cancel the vertical momentum of his second jump at any time by using either a Special move or an Item throw; this is called Double Jump Canceling, or DJC. By doing this, Yoshi can obtain much horizontal momentum, which is particularly notable when he uses DJC close to the ground. Yoshi can use this at any time during a short hop, be it empty or after an aerial such as B-Air. By throwing a Banana with this technique, Yoshi can safely retreat or approach after using a short hop option and then follow with a Jab if one Spot Dodges the Banana or with a Down-B for a kill at higher percentages.
Damage/Pain Caused:
Damage: Potentially 20%-ish
Leads into a kill move
Allows Yoshi to space our attacks
Can be mixed up with Neural-B to switch between a Banana throw and essentially an air Grab
How to Avoid/Punish:
To keep this basic, have a second Banana out and use it to stop Yoshi from approaching with this.
Captian Falcon
Knee Combo
OP: "Handling your Banana" - Falcon's Banana Assisted ATs.
Vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2Or3DsxboI&fmt=22
Conditions:
Works at any %
Captain Falcon must have a Banana in hand
Description:
This is a simple yet effective combo. All Captain Falcon does is Short Hop over Diddy, throw a Banana down onto Diddy's head, and uses a sweetspotted Knee right before he lands.
Damage/Pain Caused:
Damage: 23%
Can be a kill combo
How to Avoid/Punish:
...
OP: "Handling your Banana" - Falcon's Banana Assisted ATs.
Vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2Or3DsxboI&fmt=22
Conditions:
Works at any %
Captain Falcon must have a Banana in hand
Description:
This is a simple yet effective combo. All Captain Falcon does is Short Hop over Diddy, throw a Banana down onto Diddy's head, and uses a sweetspotted Knee right before he lands.
Damage/Pain Caused:
Damage: 23%
Can be a kill combo
How to Avoid/Punish:
...
Ganondorf
Banana Choke
OP: Ganon Likes Fruit
Vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hz6EMulsx00
Conditions:
Works at any %
Ganon must have a Banana in hand
Description:
This is a rather devastating combo if performed correctly. I'd recommend seeing the OP or at least watching the video, because my explanation wouldn't do it justice. Ganon does the following:
Banana in hand > Gerudo > Glide Toss Downwards > Follow-Up
If you find yourself in this situation, do NOT use a get-up attack out of the trip; it's a GUARANTEED WIZARD PUNCH if you buffer one and he predicts it correctly. Even without that, it is a solid 41% chunk if performed correctly, and leads into a kill move.
Damage/Pain Caused:
Damage: 41%
Finishes with a kill move
Can tech chase you with a Wizard Punch if you get-up attack
How to Avoid/Punish:
As you should already be doing when facing Ganon, simply avoid the Gerudo altogether. It's got a decent amount of lag, and with your Banana game it's hard for him to space it safely. There isn't a way to punish this if it hits, so just don't get grabbed that first time.
HRC Banana Choke Starter
OP: Susa's Post
Conditions:
Diddy must be at a "low" percent
Ganon must have a Banana in hand
Description:
In sort of a fancy Thunderstorm fused with HRC techniques, Ganon can abuse the spike-stopping effects of a well-timed Banana drop to lead us into the Banana Choke. The method for doing this is detailed in Susa's post. Note that this will likely be used to punish a bad roll.
Damage/Pain Caused:
Damage: ???
Leads into a Banana Choke
How to Avoid/Punish:
To do this technique, Ganon must first Short Hop and then Double Jump in front of you while dropping the Banana; in short, he has to use a Short Hop to get above us. If that isn't spelling it out for you enough, it's rather easy to stop a Ganondorf from doing this thanks to his poor speed and jump height, so just keep on the pressure. However, he probably wouldn't be approaching it from that angle; it's more likely he'll use this to punish a bad roll. So, well, don't roll towards him Also, if you're at a high percent, you can tech the spike to escape. If you get caught in it, it's a direct lead into the Banana Choke... In other words, pray.
OP: Ganon Likes Fruit
Vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hz6EMulsx00
Conditions:
Works at any %
Ganon must have a Banana in hand
Description:
This is a rather devastating combo if performed correctly. I'd recommend seeing the OP or at least watching the video, because my explanation wouldn't do it justice. Ganon does the following:
Banana in hand > Gerudo > Glide Toss Downwards > Follow-Up
If you find yourself in this situation, do NOT use a get-up attack out of the trip; it's a GUARANTEED WIZARD PUNCH if you buffer one and he predicts it correctly. Even without that, it is a solid 41% chunk if performed correctly, and leads into a kill move.
Damage/Pain Caused:
Damage: 41%
Finishes with a kill move
Can tech chase you with a Wizard Punch if you get-up attack
How to Avoid/Punish:
As you should already be doing when facing Ganon, simply avoid the Gerudo altogether. It's got a decent amount of lag, and with your Banana game it's hard for him to space it safely. There isn't a way to punish this if it hits, so just don't get grabbed that first time.
HRC Banana Choke Starter
OP: Susa's Post
Conditions:
Diddy must be at a "low" percent
Ganon must have a Banana in hand
Description:
In sort of a fancy Thunderstorm fused with HRC techniques, Ganon can abuse the spike-stopping effects of a well-timed Banana drop to lead us into the Banana Choke. The method for doing this is detailed in Susa's post. Note that this will likely be used to punish a bad roll.
Damage/Pain Caused:
Damage: ???
Leads into a Banana Choke
How to Avoid/Punish:
To do this technique, Ganon must first Short Hop and then Double Jump in front of you while dropping the Banana; in short, he has to use a Short Hop to get above us. If that isn't spelling it out for you enough, it's rather easy to stop a Ganondorf from doing this thanks to his poor speed and jump height, so just keep on the pressure. However, he probably wouldn't be approaching it from that angle; it's more likely he'll use this to punish a bad roll. So, well, don't roll towards him Also, if you're at a high percent, you can tech the spike to escape. If you get caught in it, it's a direct lead into the Banana Choke... In other words, pray.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-= UNCHECKED CHARACTERS =-
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-= CHARACTERS WITHOUT CHARACTER =-
-=-=-= SPECIFIC BANANA TECHS =-=-=-
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-=-=-=-
-= Misc =-
-=-=-=-
-= UNCHECKED CHARACTERS =-
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-= CHARACTERS WITHOUT CHARACTER =-
-=-=-= SPECIFIC BANANA TECHS =-=-=-
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-=-=-=-
-= Misc =-
-=-=-=-
That's a lot of yellow.
- Well, yeah, it's called an overdose for a reason
Wait, are we trying to actually advance other character's metagames here?
- Lord no. As said above, we are simply gathering what the other character boards have done, NOT trying to advance their Banana game against us. I figure this should be said twice.
How does the General Techs section work?
- (7/20/09) Forgive me, but I have to edit that in once I'm done researching it enough. I posted this in this form to begin conversation that will hopefully lead me in the right direction.
Okay, are we talking about combos or techs here?
- Really sort of both. Basic combos, like a simple Glide Toss > Kill Move, are very well-known and telegraphed, and therefore will not be discussed. If you have a combo that's not well known, has a funny or unusual approach, or that leads into a particularly devastating combo/move, then it will be added.
I don't get it; you've got x character in the "Unchecked Characters" section, yet they're in x General Tech list. What gives?
- The General Tech lists are, well, general, and only tell you that "x character can Dribble" or "x character can use the Single Banana Lock." By "Unchecked," I mean that we have not yet looked for or found any techs specific to that character, techs you wouldn't find anywhere else.
If that's the case, then what's with Sheik's certain "Character Specific Tech"?
- Sheik is an exception; she has Single Banana Lock in her section even though other characters can do it because the explanation behind how she does it is shown in a video and thread that can be viewed for more detail. The other characters that can Single Banana Lock do it in the exact same way Sheik does, but they didn't have videos or anything to help describe it.
Why are the different Character Specific Techs listed in the Updates section as being "techs," even though some obviously aren't?
- That's simply to keep the Updates section neat; by calling them all techs, it's easier to know where there were added.
- Well, yeah, it's called an overdose for a reason
Wait, are we trying to actually advance other character's metagames here?
- Lord no. As said above, we are simply gathering what the other character boards have done, NOT trying to advance their Banana game against us. I figure this should be said twice.
How does the General Techs section work?
- (7/20/09) Forgive me, but I have to edit that in once I'm done researching it enough. I posted this in this form to begin conversation that will hopefully lead me in the right direction.
Okay, are we talking about combos or techs here?
- Really sort of both. Basic combos, like a simple Glide Toss > Kill Move, are very well-known and telegraphed, and therefore will not be discussed. If you have a combo that's not well known, has a funny or unusual approach, or that leads into a particularly devastating combo/move, then it will be added.
I don't get it; you've got x character in the "Unchecked Characters" section, yet they're in x General Tech list. What gives?
- The General Tech lists are, well, general, and only tell you that "x character can Dribble" or "x character can use the Single Banana Lock." By "Unchecked," I mean that we have not yet looked for or found any techs specific to that character, techs you wouldn't find anywhere else.
If that's the case, then what's with Sheik's certain "Character Specific Tech"?
- Sheik is an exception; she has Single Banana Lock in her section even though other characters can do it because the explanation behind how she does it is shown in a video and thread that can be viewed for more detail. The other characters that can Single Banana Lock do it in the exact same way Sheik does, but they didn't have videos or anything to help describe it.
Why are the different Character Specific Techs listed in the Updates section as being "techs," even though some obviously aren't?
- That's simply to keep the Updates section neat; by calling them all techs, it's easier to know where there were added.