Pound V Project M Tournament Results - All tournament videos are up!

[GameStation aka C4?!]

I'm just glad my mains didn't place very well.

I cant stand your mains.

 

[JCaesar]

I just remembered I used Snake in a few matches and they weren't all losses, so there you guys go, Snake at 5th!

 

[Lobos]

I didn't get a chance to stop by and sit down to play :/

 

[GHNeko]

next time we have like 40 people

3 man pools plz

 

[Strong Badam]

I didn't use Falcon at all in tournament. I went Fox/Marth.
Got bracket-***** so hard & didn't really get to warm up (TOO MUCH MELEE HYPE); no johns though Lain & Shroomed are legit. Tourney was mad fun!

 

[GuruKid]

Your lucas is soooo annoying btw. <3

I hate your Mario just as much. <3


Strong Bad we never got to meeeeet or plaayyyy

 

[Dnyce]

needed more snake. <_<

I played Snake... though I got demoralized when I learned planking is a viable strategy against him and wouldn't get enforced since it's just a demo.


Felt just like Melee though, Good job guys... add a ledge grab limit / stalling rule.

Eagerly awaiting the next major tournament already Gonna be putting my Lucas through some of that Hyperbolic Time Chamber training.

What's wrong with the grab-the-ledge=win strategy you used against me? Or maybe you meant that you're going to practice new ways of doing it

Makes sense.


Shout outs to the developers for missing grab-releases with Marth on other characters instead of just removing them on Lucas.
Adding grabable ledges to PTAD but not adding them on Delfino.
Making stages way too big to be played on, and legal.
Having Snakes claymore's randomly detonated.
Giving Ganon his side-B from Brawl to deteriorate aggressive technical play from his opponent (grab armor is dumb and apparently isn't abused to it's potential by melee players).

Shout outs to the TO's for not taking action when stalling is called. I didn't spend money to play a game where there's no enforcement on rules.... or is there even a rule on stalling?



Overall I've had fun with the game so far. I've never had the clock run out on me or been planked in Brawl, so I guess I'm just not used to these Melee tactics.

*shrug*

 

[Strong Badam]

WTF GuruKid, you are the one who timed out Fino?
I feel like kicking you out of PMBR right now >:V

 

[Revven]

It sounds more like Fino practically let him do it... since Snake actually has options to hit someone off the ledge. I mean come on, it's LUCAS, what were you doing? Sitting on the other side of the stage throwing grenades?

Still, GuruKid why? =\

As for Marth grab releases?... Um, everyone's grab release animation was sped up. If someone is getting "combo'd" from a grab release the person who got grab released is not moving or reacting fast enough. But, it'll be looked at if it's really a problem (even though the speed up is clearly there).

It just sounds like you're johning to me at this point though.

 

[Dnyce]

It sounds more like Fino practically let him do it... since Snake actually has options to hit someone off the ledge. I mean come on, it's LUCAS, what were you doing? Sitting on the other side of the stage throwing grenades?

Well, apparently my set-up where I lay a claymore on the ground, double jump and set a C4 on the platform above was too hard for him to get through. After him sitting on the ledge not showing any intention of approaching at all I start tossing nades through the set-up to try and hit him off the ledge, which was a lot harder given the reduced timer and inability to strip the grenades. I eventually got one, but it was just shy of KO%. Instead of taking the opportunity to go over the obstacles I set he DI'd straight off stage and went back to the ledge.

With a little over a minute left on the clock and a stock down, I move my claymore so I can get through and then start trying to hit him and even start to go off stage as snake to try and hit / kill him. Despite now being in an easy position to ledge guard me and further his lead, he continued to out maneuver me in the air and grab the ledge repeatedly for the remaining minute as if to taunt me.

Cool guy.

Also, randomly detonated mines? Uh, aside from the glitch where you have it planted in the middle of the stage and you pull out a 'nade the mine explodes the mine doesn't randomly "detonate".

As for Marth grab releases?... Um, everyone's grab release animation was sped up. If someone is getting "combo'd" from a grab release the person who got grab released is not moving or reacting fast enough. But, it'll be looked at if it's really a problem (even though the speed up is clearly there).

It just sounds like you're johning to me at this point though. Big stages? There didn't seem to be any "big" stages in the list when I read it. And Ganondorf's side B ... grab armor isn't something "new", it's from Melee, you just didn't take damage in Melee like you do in Brawl. Common misconception is common.

I didn't know about that glitch, and it's a pretty obscure one at that, so it seemed random to me.

They must have been reacting poorly then. I've been able to grab release big characters with Marth. Not grab-release combo... just grab-releasing them and then being able to re-grab to do it all over again.

I was speaking in general, grabbing people through attacks is a dumb mechanic. And aside from the time-out, I'm not johning. I was pointing out things I happily abused while it was there. IMO the rumble falls stage is enormous, though I never played on it in tournament.

 

[CT Chia]

I've never had the clock run out on me or been planked in Brawl, so I guess I'm just not used to these Melee tactics.

*shrug*

quote of the day lmao

also it was so funny when fino was talking to me about sonic then i sat down and got 4 stocked in tourney

btw i used sonic and sheik equally

 

[AJiggaG]

I sucked in the tourney. But I had fun. Shout outs to JCz for making it happen and to the PM team! I look forward to the full release. Hopefully, Falcon can get some buffs. He has even less priority, relatively speaking.

 

[GHNeko]

I played Snake... though I got demoralized when I learned planking is a viable strategy against him and wouldn't get enforced since it's just a demo.

He still as plenty of options to get around it.

Felt just like Melee though, Good job guys... add a ledge grab limit / stalling rule.

Why would we even need a LGL. looool. Stalling as well. Last I recall, there were no characters that could stall extremely well.

Shout outs to the developers for missing grab-releases with Marth on other characters instead of just removing them on Lucas.

As Falco said, Marth has no grab release combos on anyone. If a player gets regrabbed, that is 100% the player's fault.

Adding grabable ledges to PTAD but not adding them on Delfino.

The main platform on PTAD doesn't have ledges. And I already told PMBR about that missing ledge on Delfino's house

Making stages way too big to be played on, and legal.

Like what? The largest legal stage on that stage list was Metal Cavern and Dreamland 64, and Metal cavern was a CP. Temple:M, Skyworld, SSE:Jungle were either doubles only or simply just not legal.

Giving Ganon his side-B from Brawl to deteriorate aggressive technical play from his opponent (grab armor is dumb and apparently isn't abused to it's potential by melee players).

How does it deteriorate aggressive technical play when it's a tech chase move that actively keeps ganon chasing down opponents for wracking damage and consistently requires good reads as NOTHING is guaranteed from Side B? not even his fast *** jab.

Grab armor is dumb tho, and I know PMBR knows that and IIRC they're looking to remove that.

Shout outs to the TO's for not taking action when stalling is called. I didn't spend money to play a game where there's no enforcement on rules.... or is there even a rule on stalling?

Overall I've had fun with the game so far. I've never had the clock run out on me or been planked in Brawl, so I guess I'm just not used to these Melee tactics.

*shrug*

Not a TO, but your experience is chalked up to nothing but inexperience with the game, its stages, and the newcomers.

 

[Dnyce]

Snake's C4 doesn't randomly detonate, it has a 30 second time from the time it's placed IIRC. In fact, the only random think about Snake is the direction the motar shot will fall in.


How does it deteriorate aggressive technical play when it's a tech chase move that actively keeps ganon chasing down opponents for wracking damage and consistently requires good reads as NOTHING is guaranteed from Side B? not even his fast *** jab.

Grab armor is dumb tho, and I know PMBR knows that and IIRC they're looking to remove that.

C4 and claymores are two different things. Sorry, Snake's downsmash randomly detonates. They removed the 30 second detonation timer for the C4 I thought.

I said for the opponent. Mostly just being able to fly at them with super armor to set-up for said tech-chase scenario in which 3 of the 4 options are covered by murder kick. 75% = good read? Lol, k. I would call using sideB to catch their tech-roll behind you a hard read, but not mashing down B as soon as you land sideB.

 

[Revven]

The mine thing is a glitch with the grenades, nothing intentional. Yes, C4's timer is gone for exploding iirc.

Also, Ganondorf doesn't have super armor on Side B. That is just the grab box beating the hitbox when they land on the same frame. It happened in Melee the only difference is in this, it does damage. So it looks like it's armor but it really isn't. Really, really, common misconception people make. Nothing against you, just simply explaining it.

 

[The Upholder]

wait there was a time out? How the hell did that happen.

I fail to see how a lucas is capable of of planking a snake. He has a huge *** double jump, he's not keeping that invincibility. Toss a grenade, grab the edge if he falls down and bair him, if he double jumps out you can just edgeguard him, etc.

 

[GHNeko]

C4 and claymores are two different things. Sorry, Snake's downsmash randomly detonates. They removed the 30 second detonation timer for the C4 I thought.

I was actually corrected and editted that out. Loool. My bad on that part.

I said for the opponent. Mostly just being able to fly at them with super armor to set-up for said tech-chase scenario in which 3 of the 4 options are covered by murder kick. 75% = good read? Lol, k. I would call using sideB to catch their tech-roll behind you a hard read, but not mashing down B as soon as you land sideB.

Standing tech into shield. Standing tech into crouch cancel at low percents, possibly mid percents. Backward tech.

Those alone say not 75% percent. And if you want to get really nitpicky. If you take the hit at low enough percents and SDI/DI down and tech, you can probably punish ganon.

+ What falco said with the grab armor.

 

[JCaesar]

It's not even that hard to beat Ganon's side-b. Roll, jump, hell even a sh nair with most characters will beat it.

wait there was a time out? How the hell did that happen.

I fail to see how a lucas is capable of of planking a snake. He has a huge *** double jump, he's not keeping that invincibility. Toss a grenade, grab the edge if he falls down and bair him, if he double jumps out you can just edgeguard him, etc.

Honestly I have to agree. Lucas isn't great on the edge and Snake has a lot of tools to dislodge plankers. It can only happen if the Snake makes no real effort.

 

[Magus420]

Standing tech into shield. Standing tech into crouch cancel at low percents, possibly mid percents. Backward tech.

But yeah, in melee when a grabber and attacker trade on the same frame the grab has full priority over the attack (games checks in this order: catch -> damage -> hitlag), since the attacker gets grabbed before checking if it hit to do damage. In brawl the damage goes through first, then the catch happens afterwards (damage -> catch -> hitlag). It appears like there's armor because the damage goes through but then the catch goes through over the hitlag preventing knockback despite receiving damage.

 

[CTL17]

Slightly fair difficult bracket aside, can someone give me the statistics on Sheik's chain? It seems to do more damage in frequency and magnitude, which hurts short ranged melee (melee opposed to range, not melee opposed to brawl) characters.

I also propose giving P:M some properties of PAL instead of NTSC. (Blame housing the Europeans for 4 days.)

P.S. Jiggs dittoes in P:M are more fun than in Melee for some reason.
P.P.S. Maybe shoutouts later.
P.P.P.S.
JC/TH/Count: Glad to see that P:M was successful. Unfortunately, I have already been desensitized and didn't find it THAT amazing, but it still is.
cmart: Help TH overcome his Jiggs fear.
Ryoko: Of course you'd know exactly what to do with your own character.
AJigga: Falcon is difficult with latency and landing detection.
GHNeko: Good friendlies, discovering things and playing on that horrid HD TV.
Some guy from PR: Falcon dittoes FTW.

 

[HyugaRicdeau]

Thanks! Good to see that a G&W made top 10. I pretty much designed G&W myself, so I'd love to hear what you thought about him. If you could give your input either in the Project M thread or the G&W:M board on smashmods, we'd really appreciate it!

Haha, I'm actually in the PMBR, but haven't posted much since I recently came into a super busy period in school as I'm working on a thesis (although I do play in person with jiang from time to time). I will have time to contribute starting in March, and the demo quality has certainly motivated me to do so.

I actually almost never touched GW in PM before P5 (I mainly use Charizard and Mario), but he's been my Melee low-tier for a long time so it wasn't too hard to figure out. For the most part, you fixed all his annoying Melee idiosyncrasies, and I love that you kept his Brawl up-B.

It was amazing playing you, though I had this really depressing feeling I never got to play you seriously. ;_;

I enjoyed our matches too, though I dunno what you were expecting from a 'serious' match.

EDIT: Oh and one more thing that I can't help but notice as a TO, but there were 41 people in the bracket but people nevertheless managed to get 49th place. This is because you had people playing each other first round of losers when there were other places where there were 2 byes. Tio takes this into account when generating a bracket, so you have to be careful when moving around round 1 matches where there are lots of byes involved (brackets where you're less than halfway to the next power of 2).

Not a big deal of course but just FYI in case you run any more tourneys.

 

[GuruKid]

What's wrong with the grab-the-ledge=win strategy you used against me? Or maybe you meant that you're going to practice new ways of doing it

Makes sense.

I actually do plan on seeing how I can stall and camp more effectively with Lucas, thank you very much.

No hard feelings though, man. I've nothing against you, you're a chillax guy. I just play to win, and will explore all options to do so. I didn't expect to keep it up throughout the latter half of the match, but since it appeared you couldn't adapt accordingly, I just continued as such. If the tactic is working, why change it?

You played super defensive the entire set, I just eventually decided to do the same.

And there was never a LGL in place for the set nor was my tactic my any means "excessive stalling".

WTF GuruKid, you are the one who timed out Fino?
I feel like kicking you out of PMBR right now >:V

Still, GuruKid why? =\

Last we discussed in the PMBR, we were actively encourage people to find and utilize potential glitches, exploits and abusive tactics so we can analyze and remedy them in the future. So I can't see how this could be frowned upon.

 

[cmart]

@CTL - I'll try. I have a few pointers I could give him.
@JC - For accuracy's sake, Milkman beat me w/ Falco. Not sure who he used for his other matches.
@TH - I need more Falco training Nearly all my losses were to Falco
@myself - I like initials

 

[Gust14]

Where are the videos?

 

[GHNeko]

Those are from dtilt tho.

I was talking about standing tech from Side B.

I enjoyed our matches too, though I dunno what you were expecting from a 'serious' match.

i was expecting a match that you were focused on and really into and had all intent of ****** me, as I expect from all melee pros and MBR

 

[JCaesar]

Where are the videos?

Not up yet. Later this week.

 

[toasty]

Melee top tiers are right now seemingly the best because people already know how to play them and use their most effective strategies. The other characters still need a lot of exploring. But I will say that the melee top tiers are easier to play since everything seems to autocombo (Sheik!).

THIS.

I'm very excited about this game.

I'll make a note for anyone who wants to be a jack*ss about it though.

I had a conversation with a die-hard Melee player after the P:M tourney. I'll preface this by mentioning that when Brawl+ happened, he had nothing but the typical negatives to mention which had little-to-nothing to do with Brawl+...example: "when you have to hack a game to make it fun, you know it's a bad game" which really says absolutely nothing about Brawl+. But you get the idea.

Anyway, the conversation was something like this:
Me: DUUUUUDE I played P:M...that **** is SOOO much fun!!! I really liked what I saw in the demo.
Him: Eh...whatever...still looks weird...looks nothing like Melee and doesn't really feel like Melee
Me: that's not quite the point...it feels very natural and if anything, to us Smash fanboys who were hungry for the Melee follow-up to be "reminiscent of Melee but different enough so that it's new," this is exactly what I would have liked Brawl to be
Him: Well...that's still never going to join the two communities.
Me: Who said that was its purpose? This has nothing to do with that; they wanted to make a new game that's fun and they succeeded.


Oh snap it's 1:30...I'll come back to this eventually. I did fill out that questionnaire, though.

And Count...I forgot your whole name, so please send me a PM so we can continue our conversation about Ness. I'm actually extremely excited to contribute! I can definitely give you a great deal of input concerning what you asked me.


PS: How in the HELLLLLL do you get planked by LUCAS?!?!?! I mean the Lucas player in me wants to know "no really, how does it work?" while the rest of me is just like "No seriously, there's no way that could ever work, you just sat there and let it happen?"

Honestly that is the equivalent of saying "ugh, my house just got robbed because I willingly handed a thief my house key and showed him where I live............there should be a law against that."

>_>

 

[Lobos]

shououts to jcaesar's jewfro

 

[Thunderhorse+]

Shoutouts to GuruKid for playing to win no matter what the cost.

Seriously, good **** to him for doing what it took even if it was an unpopular strategy. I should be ashamed of you both Falco400/SB for promoting scrubby mindsets.

Will do full shoutouts after work.

 

[victra♥]

can't wait for the vids

strong bad is a scrub =D

 

[JCaesar]

I've got over half of them recorded so far. Uploads coming in the next few days!

 

[CTL17]

I've got over half of them recorded so far. Uploads coming in the next few days!

So wait, which Wiis gave you their replays?

 

[Rayku]

My favorite part of the P:M tournament was Chibo talking to his friend about Sonic being top tier and then his friend watching me 4-stock him

 

[CT Chia]

My favorite part of the P:M tournament was Chibo talking to his friend about Sonic being top tier and then his friend watching me 4-stock him

lmao def one of the best parts

i promise i was doing better on saturday! lol

 

[BRLNK88]

THIS.

Anyway, the conversation was something like this:
Me: DUUUUUDE I played P:M...that **** is SOOO much fun!!! I really liked what I saw in the demo.
Him: Eh...whatever...still looks weird...looks nothing like Melee and doesn't really feel like Melee
Me: that's not quite the point...it feels very natural and if anything, to us Smash fanboys who were hungry for the Melee follow-up to be "reminiscent of Melee but different enough so that it's new," this is exactly what I would have liked Brawl to be
Him: Well...that's still never going to join the two communities.
Me: Who said that was its purpose? This has nothing to do with that; they wanted to make a new game that's fun and they succeeded.

And therein lies MY major problem, my Brawl friends won't play PM with me because they don't like Melee, and my Melee friends will play maybe a couple matches with me, complain it doesn't feel like Melee, and go back to Melee.
For example, one of my friends who was at Pound V (Tirno, Falcon and Falco main) came over and said "lemee try this", within two seconds he was like "wow this is horrible", all because of the landing detection.
Meanwhile I'm left alone fighting computers, and one of my more authoritative friends demands I change the set-up to Melee so that there are more TVs available, what the **** do I do???
I hate Texas Smash...
The state is dominated by stupid Barlw players, and the few Melee players there are are so arrogant.

 

[JCaesar]

So wait, which Wiis gave you their replays?

I have the replays from every Wii so far except the one directly under the Project M banner in the middle. Neko where you at?

And therein lies MY major problem, my Brawl friends won't play PM with me because they don't like Melee, and my Melee friends will play maybe a couple matches with me, complain it doesn't feel like Melee, and go back to Melee.
For example, one of my friends who was at Pound V (Tirno, Falcon and Falco main) came over and said "lemee try this", within two seconds he was like "wow this is horrible", all because of the landing detection.
Meanwhile I'm left alone fighting computers, and one of my more authoritative friends demands I change the set-up to Melee so that there are more TVs available, what the **** do I do???
I hate Texas Smash...
The state is dominated by stupid Barlw players, and the few Melee players there are are so arrogant.

If someone wants to hate it, they're gonna hate it. Not much you can do about that. The best you can do is get them to actually try it first. Most of the people at Pound who actually took the time to try it for a few matches really liked it.

 

[Hey_its_YO]

good **** jc on the tourney
good **** hat and Thorse on the wins
good **** to everyone i played
*pound*

 

[Big Burn]

subscribed.......

 

[CTL17]

I have the replays from every Wii so far except the one directly under the Project M banner in the middle. Neko where you at?

Aw that was where my Falcon fail was!

Edit: I hope people identify who all the ???'s are.

 

[JCaesar]

Videos are going up now btw.

First I'm putting up the ones where I couldn't figure out who was playing. Please help me out if you can. And use a damn tag next time!
??? (Falcon) vs ??? (Falco)
??? (Fox) vs ??? (Marth) 1
??? (Fox) vs ??? (Marth) 2
??? (Ganon) vs ??? (Marth)
??? (Link) vs ??? (Falcon) - I'm guessing the Link is ChRed
Hyuga (G&W) vs ??? (Marth) 1
a couple more coming...