PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[leffen]

Look.

Its always more or less this:

Guessing involved (ie another dair, predicting their DI with wavelands) =potential for higher reward, but higher chance of dropping your pressure.

Little to no guessing (nairing/bairing after dairshine for example)= low chance of real resets, but less potential for more combos.

Optimizing falcos combos more is all about executing your moves correctly not finding some hidden option that noone has done before. You can't really optimize his combo game solely (at least what most define as combo game), its just becoming better at offense overall.

Oh and Mango has TERRIBLE *combos*, he usually does very few TRUE combos. Instead he uses reads along with high risk/high reward options for combos and pressure which is great in its own way- but it also means that if he reads incorrectly then he'll lose much more on it than a player with PP style combos.

Oh wait, whenever things go badly for mango its because he sandbags.

 

[stopNstart]

hey dr.pp, to make you feel less bad about your mango color theory here is where he used it,
blue --> red --> black(****) marth
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeR68yUhVNY

LOL

 

[Battlecow]

I cannot wait for leffen's johns after apex. I cannot wait for them. There are going to be so many, about so many different things, and they will all be beautiful.

 

[Druggedfox]

Alright, sure leffen. And posts like *that* is why the metagame often stays stagnant.

 

[Divinokage]

Why would he lose much more than someone who does regular combos? He can easily reset the situation and then do another move right away to counter-attack and continue pressure. The goal is you want to have less possible situation where you are looking for the first hit.. the more you have these situations the harder it is to kill the opponent. I think Mango does this really well.

 

[leffen]

L M F A O

I guess you don't understand druggedfox, whatever.

you're also saying that to me, a player who is literally obsessed with implementing new stuff.

also kage I'm not even gonna answer to you

 

[Divinokage]

That's because you also say lots of nonsense.

 

[crush]

I deliberately post nonsense

 

[KirbyKaze]

I mainly said the exception thing because I thought you were targeting me (because I was saying stuff about it being hard to optimize) xD

If it's not particularly difficult to optimize, then, do you think you could look at a situation and easily pick the best move?

Idk, consider something like fox is about at battlefield side platform height in the air, but in the middle of battlefield (right under the top platform). Is falco supposed to jump shine waveland onto a side platform? Shine waveland to the top platform? Should he just try to go for a second hit upair? Should he just dair and try to go for either an uptilt/tech chase?

I mean, situations like that often aren't the hardest to pick the right move, but I feel like the feeling of "bread and butter" is lost pretty quickly with falco after a certain % (outside of dair uptilt on platforms) in situations like this. I think it's not hard to pick a good option, but to consistently pick the ideal one seems difficult to me. I think a lot of stuff hasn't become standard at all yet, but is probably the optimal choice in many situations; an example of this is like, people recently have started doing a lot more wavelanding onto platforms into uptilts. It seems *really* good, but I've only seen it done a few times between zhu/PP/mango/random falcos. For something good enough that it should probably be standard, it's still kinda rare.

You raise good points but I'm actually just heading out right now so rather than drag this thread into combo optimization philosophies, would you like to discuss this on AIM sometime?

 

[genkaku]

$20 on crush

 

[Stevo]

20 crush sodas on crush

 

[crush]

50 quid on Ice

 

[Winston]

I feel like even dair utilt stuff on platforms isn't perfect if they actively try to miss tech + slide off.

But what do I know

 

[Divinokage]

Leffen is always right, that's why.

 

[Doser]

Oh wait, whenever things go badly for mango its because he sandbags.

You deserve an award for most insecure smasher. Honestly almost every single post that you create has some jab at the U.S. or smashers in the U.S. and I can't help but wonder why someone would feel the need to dedicate so much energy to something so silly. The only plausible explanation is that you're terribly insecure, why else would you need to go on about being the BEST yoshi, or the BEST player at shield dropping, etc.

So please, stop being an immature baby and realize that people aren't defined by the nation that they are in. I hope you realize you are in many ways worse than the American stereotype you so openly mock.

 

[Vaccine]

what do i do when another falco is on the ledge and he LHDLs?
i always get hit!

 

[Warhawk]

Oh wait, whenever things go badly for mango its because he sandbags.

I don't know that I've ever heard someone john for Mang0 saying that he sandbagged with Falco, which if I get what you're saying right, you're trying to imply that the times where he plays badly and are written off as sandbagging are results of his high risk/high reward playstyle. The only john I've ever heard for his Falco was the hungover one I think where he got whooped by Kage (which really isn't legit either but besides the point). People only pull the sandbag john for him when he plays Falcon or one of his other secondaries even though that isn't really sandbagging. Mostly useless point anyways since I agree that he doesn't sandbag as much as people say.

Anyways, I also don't think his combos are really "terrible" or are "not true" combos just because he throws in some high risk high reward combos into his playing style. Its not like he doesn't use some more staple combos in his game either, he's just more risky than most players. Why does this make the combos not true or worse because they are a little more dependent on the read he makes on the other player?

@H I V +: You could try dropping through a platform above the ledge with an aerial on them once they've already committed to a LHDL. Its about guessing when they're going to do it and getting above the lasers and dropping an aerial down on them when they do it.

 

[V3ctorMan]

I'll just leave this here... >.>

*egg rolls away*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zdh7IIX3ZQ0

Im liking falco again ^^

Spoiler

Help me for those who feel like it ^^;

<3

 

[Ltork]

I cannot wait for leffen's johns after apex. I cannot wait for them. There are going to be so many, about so many different things, and they will all be beautiful.

Just watch all the videos from his last tournament.

"I wasn't playing good"
"I sucked this match"
"Don't look at these vids, I was playing horrible"

But hey, he is perfect, he can dominate all of europe with Yoshi (he got 5th) is the best shielddropper in the world, in fact, he came up with that strat. He will call America inferior when he lives in Sweden (lol). It's sad someone that actually looks like can be good be such an idiot.

@Falco Thread
How can you deal with a campy sheik on big stages like FD and Dreamland? I try to spam lasers as much as possible, using platform shenanigans, but especially in FD I get gayed more than I should.

 

[JPOBS]

Also in that Armada vs. Zhu why does zhu always put up his sheild for like a half second at a time?

I thoguht it might be a way for him to vary his laser timing safely around 1:31, but then he does it again around like 2:57 while dash dancing, is he just hoping armada drops an aerial at that exact moment or something?

He's using it primarily as a spacing tool. The shield stops your momentum. So he's shielding in precise situations after a quick dash to get into JUST the right spacing he wanted. If he had just dashed, the momentum from the dash animation would take him father than he wanted.

Anything he does after that, like laser, is secondary.

I cannot wait for leffen's johns after apex. I cannot wait for them. There are going to be so many, about so many different things, and they will all be beautiful.

A lot of people hate leffen for his abrasive posting style and rampant anti-american foolishness. But I'm going to be honest, I think leffen is going to put in work at apex.

My opinion is that leffen is a lot better than people give him credit for because people don't like him. Its pretty easy to look at someone you like and wish the best for them or overate them, and its even easier to look at someone you dislike and think they suck. But from a completely objective standpoint, i think he's going to **** a lot of people.

so there you go leffen, you've got one fan

 

[stopNstart]

leffen will do really well probably, but will depend on his bracket. pp,hbox,m2k > leffen. probably shroomed too. its because he thinks hes like top 5 in the world, which is def not true. hard to give credit to someone who already gave himself all the credit.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Leffen's a huge up-and-comer. You can see that creative spark when he plays that so few players have. I can only name about five, maybe six smashers that have it. Shame he's an immature, racist ****.

I hope you realize you are in many ways worse than the American stereotype you so openly mock.

That's a bingo.

 

[Divinokage]

All top players have creativity that's why they are top players. Thinking that only a few have it is pretty foolish.

 

[Blistering Speed]

You have the reading comprehension of an infant.

 

[Aber]

All top players have creativity that's why they are top players. Thinking that only a few have it is pretty foolish.

agree with this kage

 

[-ACE-]

Lol. How old is leffen? 12? It definitely appears that way in more ways than one. I'll be looking forward to his apex johns.

It's cool that after the US being the dominant force in melee for almost 10 years, Armada wins a national and euro **** talkers feel they finally have some room to talk... so they release about 450 tons of salt that has been aging since melee came out. Funny actually. Who knows, maybe one day Europe will have the best player in the world, and the US will stand like a proud father watching his only son that made it. Until then, lol.

 

[Dorsey]

I was talking just yesterday about how in every game euros seem to have a great player that they place high on an e-pedestal. If you re from usa, then you're just **** out of luck because you could never fathom how unique this player is. You might as well not even comment on this player either, because you do not understand how well he can adapt.

I know and game with a lot of cool and skilled guys from europe, but I can't help but see this pattern combined with bias against the usa

 

[JPOBS]

^Funny, Americans say the exact same thing about mango

 

[Dorsey]

well, those americans are wrong if they say that. I usually only see it from the eu end, usa people more inclined to troll about mango, europe actually being serious concerning armada though. Ehh.. Maybe it's the language barrier. It's a lot worse in other games.

 

[Juushichi]

I expect leffen to do pretty well honestly, both moderately when he plays Yoshi and more when he throws around his spacies.

I mean, his posting style is for boners and honestly it seems both very defensive and pretty insulting overall and that's coming from someone who isn't insulted by his posts.

On the flip side, posts like Ace's is also why players like leffen have a chip on their shoulder. It almost sounds like people legitimately think the USA was like the king of Melee forever and if other world scenes do extremely well it was for some reason outside of actually playing the ****ing game.

Just my 0.02.

Oh, @ Kage. BS was referring to the fact that he feels leffen has a creative spark that is unlike other high level players he's seen. Unlike being not the same as the others, which implies that they all have creativity, but that few are better with it than others.

 

[JPOBS]

well, those americans are wrong if they say that. I usually only see it from the eu end, usa people more inclined to troll about mango, europe actually being serious concerning armada though. Ehh.. Maybe it's the language barrier. It's a lot worse in other games.

I guess you must have forgot how immediately after genesis 2, the entire american community was convinced mango could have won "if he wanted to"

 

[Beat!]

I was talking just yesterday about how in every game euros seem to have a great player that they place high on an e-pedestal. If you re from usa, then you're just **** out of luck because you could never fathom how unique this player is. You might as well not even comment on this player either, because you do not understand how well he can adapt.

I know and game with a lot of cool and skilled guys from europe, but I can't help but see this pattern combined with bias against the usa

This is not exclusive to europeans lol. The majority of all regions always hype up their players and downgrade ones from other regions. So if you don't like it when people talk about "ignorant/arrogant americans" (which is completely understandable if you don't lol), then you shouldn't say the exact same things back. A lot of europeans would say exactly what you said, but about americans instead.

So instead of trying to apply this behavior to europeans (or americans) only, understand that there are biased and less biased people from BOTH regions.

 

[Dorsey]

@jpobs lmao, those aren't the type of threads I usually read, I wouldn't know. Sounds like some stupid trolling to me no matter how much truth it contains bc it's his own fault for not trying. Also, leffen's chip on his shoulder is his own fault.

 

[CK Momentum]

So JPOBs i tried that just moving around teh stage and shielding to control exactly where I went this morning, I felt like I was driving an F1 car. Me and Crush were talking too last night and we're pretty sure that its also good for spacing and also so if he gets lasered he can shield it or even power shield it. Def. gonna try it out this weekend. Do u know any more cool things like that with Falco?

 

[Dorsey]

@beat!

I already know this..basically just saying that in my experience more comes from the eu end, just what I see man, idk what else to say..and really I'm not just talking about smash bros here, just competitive gaming in general. That being said, I'm going to take your advice and be unbiased with no restraints:

In the realm of competitive gaming, mango and armada are nobodies. Smash bros in itself is a nobody. Leffen ESPECIALLY is a nobody.

chances are I'm the most unbiased person around,lol. Try thinking on the lines of that while reading leffen's bs and you may feel different yourself

 

[Beat!]

chances are I'm the most unbiased person around,lol.

I was talking just yesterday about how in every game euros seem to have a great player that they place high on an e-pedestal. If you re from usa, then you're just **** out of luck because you could never fathom how unique this player is. You might as well not even comment on this player either, because you do not understand how well he can adapt.

I know and game with a lot of cool and skilled guys from europe, but I can't help but see this pattern combined with bias against the usa

No, you are not.

 

[Dorsey]

I have nothing against europe, it's just my personal experience...would it be less biased if I lied? I don't get it.

 

[Beat!]

I don't think you have anything against Europe either, but ignorance (maybe a little strong word in this situation, but idk what else to call it) does not make you less biased, and telling the truth does not change that.

Again, I don't think you meant any harm, but statements like the one I quoted are biased by definition, because you're stereotyping/generalizing europeans in it.

And I mean, when Jpobs told you that a lot of americans are just like that as well, you shrugged it off as "stupid trolling".

 

[Dorsey]

What do you hear the most...

Ignorant american or ignorant europeon?



Again, just because my personal experiences have shown me that euros are more biased against usa than vice-versa does not make me biased. In fact, it goes along with the general bias society in our world has against usa.

I'm so ignorant.

 

[Beat!]

Well, I suppose that's a valid point, but in the post I initially responded to you made it sound like europeans and europeans only are the ones who place their players on "high e-pedestals", when that is clearly not the case.

Idk why we're arguing about this. Let's talk about Falco instead.

I think Falco is a pretty cool guy eh shoots lasers and doesn't afraid of anything