PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[Bones0]

Coming in 2013... the epic documentary of the trials and tribulations of Melee pro KirbyKaze...

THE SHEIK BETWEEN THE SHEETS

Spoiler

Film is not yet rated.

 

[choknater]

i'd prefer a sheet between the sheiks

 

[stelzig]

also thanks for the powershielding tips. not sure i'd risk missing a powerhsield and shield dropping then unless the powershield move would result in a kill. I guess that means that if falco takes a powershield laser and falls close enough that i can't WD out of shield and maintain spacing easily i don't get any real advantage...but i can still WD down and maintain slightly better than neutral if he has laser stun time.. i am fine with him being forced onto the ground near me even if i don't have him under extreme pressure or an instant punish.

maybe if i had leffen's 95% powershield i would just powershield fsmash them pointblank all the time, but accidental shield drops are risky against falco

The attack out of powershield doesn't work on powershielded projectiles anyway. Powershielding projectiles just sends the projectile back and is otherwise a normal shield. So in this case you do need to wavedash if you want to attempt an fsmash

 

[KirbyKaze]

I've started using powershielding more but it feels like Falco can just action out of it. Or avoid the laser by very slightly modifying their laser pattern. It has given me some stupid grabs I shouldn't have gotten but I'm really not seeing how it destroys his neutral game or how people are getting PS'd laser --> WD OOS --> Marth tip f-smash combos and that kind of stuff. It doesn't feel like there's enough time (for the PSing character).

This is mostly directed at Europe.

 

[knightpraetor]

yeah it helps you reestablish more neutrality and closer range but the followups are not guaranteed at all..for one thing, even when you get hit by falco's laser often times falco's followup is not guaranteed and falco was already moving when the laser was fired and should have an easier time following up his lasers than other char do following up the powershielded laser..

though it does feel pretty good...the whole, how do you like when i apply laser pressure and you're the one forced to move after being stunned or work around the possibility of lasers hitting you....


oh vengeance is sweet

 

[KirbyKaze]

i'd prefer a sheet between the sheiks

http://www.canadiancondom.com/Links/sheik.htm

 

[choknater]

oh dear god

 

[unknown522]

Doesn't falco take less stun from the PS'd laser due to the reduced damage?

And if so, how much?


Strong bad where are youuuuuu?

 

[JPOBS]

Its half the stun i think ryan

edit: or maybe that's on CC and im confused.

 

[ShroudedOne]

CC is two thirds the stun. I dunno how much powershielded lasers deal in terms of hitstun, though.

 

[unknown522]

I though CC was Half the stun? (according to kirbykaze).

I know that PS'd projectiles do two-thirds of the damage. But I dunno how that translates to amstun

 

[Armada]

KK: Powershield F-smash should NOT work. The window or frames is not enough (never tried but it's easy to see). But if you learn the powershield game I think you can get a lot of "stupid" grabs and also make the Falco a bit afraid of you.

But it's important to realize that powershielding is not something you should spam. I would like to try the potential with powershielding as Marth or something and see how the metagame in that MU would change but **** that since Im a Peach player

 

[Tee ay eye]

**** that since Im a Peach player

i died LOLLLLL

 

[ShroudedOne]

but **** that since Im a Peach player

I died so much. <3 Armada

 

[Strong Badam]

Doesn't falco take less stun from the PS'd laser due to the reduced damage?

And if so, how much?


Strong bad where are youuuuuu?

It's only different by like 1 or 2 frames because of fewer hitlag frames. The stun itself isn't decreased IIRC. I posted it in the MBR somewhere, I'll dig around in a bit.

I though CC was Half the stun? (according to kirbykaze).

I know that PS'd projectiles do two-thirds of the damage. But I dunno how that translates to amstun

CC is 2/3rds stun

PS'd projectiles either do 50% or 55% of the damage. Never found a projectile that I could test it for to differentiate because of rounding.

 

[Bones0]

PS'd projectiles either do 50% or 55% of the damage. Never found a projectile that I could test it for to differentiate because of rounding.

Did you try PK Flash? I would think the damage on that should be high enough. Or you could do PK Flash and have Fox/Falco reflect it to double the damage, but if it gets reflected, can you still powershield it? Or you could use G&W's bucket with 3 PK Flash (is that even a projectile? lol). Or what if you powershielded a powershielded projectile (or any number of alternating powershields)? Then you could just look to see if it did 25% or 30.25% of the original shot.

It's probably just 50% anyway. There's no reason to make it something weird like 55%...


Can you powershield Arwing shots? >_>

If you powershield a teammate who was sent flying, will they do that flying damage to your opponent even if team attack is off?

 

[Stevo]

If you powershield a teammate who was sent flying, will they do that flying damage to your opponent even if team attack is off?

lol

best question ever

 

[Warhawk]

Can you powershield Arwing shots? >_>

I've done it before on accident. Never the ones where the ship shoots from across the stage but I've powershielded it when the ship swoops in from the background and fires. I didn't see the shots didn't reflect though, just seemed to disappeared as far as I'm aware, but I don't know about the ones where the ships actually become a platform on the level and shoots at you from across the stage.

 

[Bones0]

I want to see someone kill Birdo by powershielding her(?) egg back at her.

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

If you powershield a teammate who was sent flying, will they do that flying damage to your opponent even if team attack is off?

lol

i love you bones

 

[FoxLisk]

Did you try PK Flash? I would think the damage on that should be high enough. Or you could do PK Flash and have Fox/Falco reflect it to double the damage, but if it gets reflected, can you still powershield it? Or you could use G&W's bucket with 3 PK Flash (is that even a projectile? lol). Or what if you powershielded a powershielded projectile (or any number of alternating powershields)? Then you could just look to see if it did 25% or 30.25% of the original shot.

It's probably just 50% anyway. There's no reason to make it something weird like 55%...


Can you powershield Arwing shots? >_>

If you powershield a teammate who was sent flying, will they do that flying damage to your opponent even if team attack is off?

you just blew my mind. can you powershield deadweight players?!! SOMEONE TEST THIS NOW

also "there's no reason to make it something weird like 55%" would hold up in a lot of areas, but... well, I don't think I need to start listing weird things that there was no reason for in melee.

 

[unknown522]

It's only different by like 1 or 2 frames because of fewer hitlag frames. The stun itself isn't decreased IIRC. I posted it in the MBR somewhere, I'll dig around in a bit.

CC is 2/3rds stun

PS'd projectiles either do 50% or 55% of the damage. Never found a projectile that I could test it for to differentiate because of rounding.

oh. The more you know

 

[Strong Badam]

Did you try PK Flash? I would think the damage on that should be high enough. Or you could do PK Flash and have Fox/Falco reflect it to double the damage, but if it gets reflected, can you still powershield it? Or you could use G&W's bucket with 3 PK Flash (is that even a projectile? lol). Or what if you powershielded a powershielded projectile (or any number of alternating powershields)? Then you could just look to see if it did 25% or 30.25% of the original shot.

It's probably just 50% anyway. There's no reason to make it something weird like 55%...

it's 50%, samus' charge shot got it.

Can you powershield Arwing shots? >_>

If you powershield a teammate who was sent flying, will they do that flying damage to your opponent even if team attack is off?

I have determined these questions to be useless and will not answer them.

 

[unknown522]

oh yeah, back in 2008. A marth PS'd my charge shot and I PS'd it back. It did like 7% when it hit him.

Also the reduced knockback...

 

[Strong Badam]

1 3%

 

[JPOBS]

how do u post messages without hitting the 10 char minimum?

 

[KirbyKaze]

1 3

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

e z

 

[Seartu]

I have a quick question. I've been practicing my pillaring (level one bowser, 9 handicap etc...) and at first I was having mixed success with my shines.

I was fast falling and then trying to continue holding down on the analog stick for my shine. But many times I was entering a crouch before getting my shine out.

I've had more success by allowing the stick to return to neutral and then executing my shine. Is this the more proper way or am I creating a punishable opening in my pillar/making life harder for myself?

 

[RyeJew]

Hey there falco thread! Had an intense set vs a tough jiggly recently and I'd like some feedback on it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZ7w...DvjVQa1PpcFNTfVXH--GYJBiaU35cEiVmgLji6-6nnH8=

 

[Dr Peepee]

I have a quick question. I've been practicing my pillaring (level one bowser, 9 handicap etc...) and at first I was having mixed success with my shines.

I was fast falling and then trying to continue holding down on the analog stick for my shine. But many times I was entering a crouch before getting my shine out.

I've had more success by allowing the stick to return to neutral and then executing my shine. Is this the more proper way or am I creating a punishable opening in my pillar/making life harder for myself?

Well, make sure you're hitting B fast enough first of all so that you're not doing the shine late.

The other issue is that you may be pushing B too early, and just wind up holding down after you miss the shine timing.


Basically what you need to do is mess around with when you're pushing B and see what looks the most fluid.


This is how one solves most tech skill problems. You have to master the technique in parts, and then you put the parts together gradually and learn to make it fluid later on. At least, that's what I do and recommend others do.

 

[Seartu]

Thanks for the response. It seems likely to me that just the action of returning the stick to neutral may have caused enough of a delay for the shine to be correctly timed.

I'll keep on tinkering around.

 

[Warhawk]

I've had more success by allowing the stick to return to neutral and then executing my shine. Is this the more proper way or am I creating a punishable opening in my pillar/making life harder for myself?

Yea, I dunno how this would help. After I fastfall I keep the stick down and press b and that works for me, it may just be an issue of adjusting to the difference in timing with hitlag.

 

[giovannig22311]

Well, make sure you're hitting B fast enough first of all so that you're not doing the shine late.

The other issue is that you may be pushing B too early, and just wind up holding down after you miss the shine timing.


Basically what you need to do is mess around with when you're pushing B and see what looks the most fluid.


This is how one solves most tech skill problems. You have to master the technique in parts, and then you put the parts together gradually and learn to make it fluid later on. At least, that's what I do and recommend others do.

hey PP. i just got done watching you vs m2k at ROM 3. good stuff man foreal, i kno its kinda old but daann you went in thats why you and shiz are my favorite falcos

 

[ShroudedOne]

I can't believe that I haven't watched this 50 million times already.

I might just be crazy, but there are some small stylistic things that I notice from Zhu's Genesis videos that I kind of see in Mango. Not specific instances that I could point out, but...

 

[Dr Peepee]

hey PP. i just got done watching you vs m2k at ROM 3. good stuff man foreal, i kno its kinda old but daann you went in thats why you and shiz are my favorite falcos

Haha thanks man. =)

I can't believe that I haven't watched this 50 million times already.

I might just be crazy, but there are some small stylistic things that I notice from Zhu's Genesis videos that I kind of see in Mango. Not specific instances that I could point out, but...

Zhu is a lot better than I wanted to give him credit for haha. A FH tech chase on a platform and that Bair edgeguard are certainly things that I've seen Mango do(or variations of those things) from that game, so I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case.

Of course, any players of good characters that live close together will often steal tricks the other uses because it helps them get ahead as well.

 

[Bones0]

If you're not stealing Mango tricks, you're playing the game wrong.

 

[ShroudedOne]

If you're not stealing Mango tricks, you're playing the game wrong.

I must admit to having done this. His Falco is so lovely, though! I can't help it.

 

[Warhawk]

Zhu's shield pressure in that video is kinda similar to Mang0's. Maybe that's what you're seeing..?

 

[JPOBS]

I don't think zhu gets enough credit. He invented/popularized a ton of stuff, but he's never been the #1 falco at any given point the way PC, Shiz, Mango and now PP kind had their "reign". He's just always been ****ing amazing.

Zhu and Forward are probably the two most innovative falco's imo.