Project M is recruiting...

[Dark Hart]

All I'm gonna say is, tell me when it's done, and I'll see what I think from there.

 

[Scidadle]

You should make every single on of MKs move send him directly to 999%

 

[Archangel]

You should make every single on of MKs move send him directly to 999%

He's gonna be good I think but legit good not auto-****. He's gonna be heavy so off stage gimps will only be within reason. Since he won't snap to the edge automatically you'll actually need to be perfect or you might kill yourself. He'll be able to dash his *** off Vanish around and have some good mindgames. However with Nerf-ed priority fox like falling speed and hitstun he'll be food for Melee Marth and others. Basically I'm aiming him at Mid tier or possibly bottom of high. Still nothing stand out. You guys should go to the Project M thread and read through whats going on.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=260812

 

[Wind Owl]

Might as well post this here, too.

OK, so, for anyone jumping out of their skin to help with this but don't have any PSA knowledge, I have something you can do.

I'm collecting what frame what sound plays on for every character in Melee, so that I can create a sound replacement pack. This is tedious as all ****, and although I'm willing to do it, I could certainly use some help.

Instructions

 

[Signia]

fox like falling speed

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=260812

a fastfalling MK? sounds broke as ****.

 

[Archangel]

a fastfalling MK? sounds broke as ****.

not at all. It makes it harder for him to uses his combo's considering he knocks people back to far for him to catch them and hit them again. So he won't combo you to death. His edge guards are off the scale because he doesn't auto snap to the edge so going way off for gimps can lead to his own demise.

 

[Signia]

not at all. It makes it harder for him to uses his combo's considering he knocks people back to far for him to catch them and hit them again. So he won't combo you to death. His edge guards are off the scale because he doesn't auto snap to the edge so going way off for gimps can lead to his own demise.

doesn't he dash pretty fast, though? I would think he'd be able to combo just by using SHFFL aerials across the stage. Fastfalling makes SHFFLs faster and makes it easier to punish from the air. It just seems to make a character faster in general.

 

[Shell]

Dash speed is only a part of what makes for a good SHFFLing combo game. The things that I can think of off the top of my head are...

1) Dash speed
2) Gravity (FF speed mostly)
3) Air speed and amount of running momentum transfered
4) Combo moves to deal with a variety of DIs

Young Link has the 7th fastest run in the game and a great FF. However, his jumps don't carry much momentum and he doesn't have a large variety of moves to cover different DIs. Captain Falcon has a great SHFFL game because he not only dashes quickly but he falls quickly, his jumps have good intial air speed, and he can utilize every single one of his aerials to cover a lot of different DI paths and tech chases.

MK's air speed and jump momentum really aren't that great, and his aerials need to be reworked to handle his new gravity. He'll be different, and good, but not automatically better. Just making someone fall faster isn't a straight buff. Would you want Jiggz to be a FFer? No. It's all about how you match the character's moves to work with their physics, which we're working on.

-----

Recent additions such as PS Reflect, JC grabs, a pretty polished AD system, and continued incremental improvements to animations and physics are shaping up nicely. General movement is approaching target levels of speed, fluidity, and control. Haters, watch out.

 

[MarioMariox2]

doesn't he dash pretty fast, though? I would think he'd be able to combo just by using SHFFL aerials across the stage. Fastfalling makes SHFFLs faster and makes it easier to punish from the air. It just seems to make a character faster in general.

Meta's combo game will be turned into something like Roy's from what I see.

 

[Signia]

Ah ok. Shows what I little I know about MK.

 

[smash Your m0m]

you guys really need m2k help wit this...he will brake the game down frame by frame

 

[Wind Owl]

M2K doesn't care about mods, but if he wants to give us input we're listening.

 

[Shell]

We already

are breaking

this down

frame

by frame

Let no one doubt our attention to detail or data collection abilities. We're doing just fine there. The only things slowing us down are not enough character input / coding and the limits of the brawl engine, which we push further and further every day.

 

[Wind Owl]

♡ SHeLL

Spoiler

♡♡♡

 

[Silent Wolf]

they need to make all the characters leave the ground faster when jumping, everyones like melee bowser

 

[Archangel]

they need to make all the characters leave the ground faster when jumping, everyones like melee bowser

The code for eliminating dead frames is already in place.

 

[Dark Sonic]

He meant speeding up everyone's jump start animations <_<. You know, most characters having a 5-6 frame jump?

 

[Wind Owl]

SHeLL already did that too ♡

And people warp from jumpstart to jump like in Melee, rather than a smooth transition like in Brawl.

 

[Dark Sonic]

nitty gritty details are AWESOME

 

[Archangel]

Wind Owl Covered me

 

[Vts]

So how do we join this project?

is there a list that i can sign up for?

i want to help make the best ICs ever

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

SHeLL already did that too ♡

And people warp from jumpstart to jump like in Melee, rather than a smooth transition like in Brawl.

i thought it was sort of the other way around. in brawl you kinda just "appear" in the air a distance above the ground while in melee you slowly raise from the ground.

 

[ETWIST51294]

@ Vts
I don't think they're recruiting at this moment but they might be. You have to send a application to Shanus including your Melee and coding skills.

 

[Wind Owl]

So how do we join this project?

is there a list that i can sign up for?

i want to help make the best ICs ever

I actually don't know if we're still recruiting, but it's worth a shot to PM shanus if you're interested.

i thought it was sort of the other way around. in brawl you kinda just "appear" in the air a distance above the ground while in melee you slowly raise from the ground.

Not exactly. In Brawl there are transition frames where you look like you're in the air but you're actually still on the ground, and in Melee you do a slow grounded jumpstart but then shift position drastically when you start your jump. SHeLL knows more about this than I do.

 

[Shell]

Here's the deal with jump profiles in Melee vs. Brawl. Take a look a these two graphs:

Falcon's MELEE SH profiles (Measured)

Falcon's BRAWL SH profile (Estimated for display purposes)

This is assuming gravity and jump height are the same, just to illustrate a point about landing and jumpsquat.

In melee, the average character crouches on the ground in jumpsquat for ~4 frames. On frame 5 he's popped up into the air, and goes through the arc until his ankles or even thighs connect with the ground, where he then transitions into the crouched landing animation.

In bawrl, the average character crouches on the ground in jumpsquat for ~4 frames, but then has another 2-4 frames of 'fake' jumping built into the jumpsquat animation. This is deceptive because you can't actually input an aerial in during this time, and for all intents and purposes you're actually grounded. My guess is that Sakurai wanted the jump profile to be a smooth arc regardless of the gameplay effects.

The other problem is that as the bawrl character is falling, he goes into a landing animation immediately as the tip of his toe touches the ground. Like the jumpsquat, the landing animation has some 'fake' aerial frames where he looks like he's still somewhat airborne but you can't do anything. The combined effects of these two sakuria-isms mean that the real part of jumps start later and end sooner, cutting out portions of actions that are important to SHFFLing etc.

I have fixed all of the jumpsquat animations to remove these 'fake' aerial sections and adjusted the lengths to exactly match melee startup times. This feels considerably better. I have also removed the 'fake' aerial sections of landing, but we still need to correct the game to wait to land until you're in the character's ankles / thighs (exact units are character specific, obviously) instead of the tips of their feet. Phantom Wings is looking into this currently.

TL;DR -- It's like 3/4 fixed so far.

Questions?

 

[wiitubeaccount]

who are the beasts hacking this game?
this seems like a very ambitious project. I hope that you guys can pull it off, it sounds really awesome!
I swear hardcore gamers should be designing games more. If pros like m2k, azen, and so on were the ones being paid to help design brawl, it would have been the most intense and UNBELIEVABLE fighting game ever! Though I don't think brawl is horrible i think that their philosophy into making the game was a bit off. I think that if they made a game with lots of depth such as in melee and explained the advanced techniques in a manual or in game-video, more people would actually be interested in brawl.

 

[Archangel]

who are the beasts hacking this game?
this seems like a very ambitious project. I hope that you guys can pull it off, it sounds really awesome!
I swear hardcore gamers should be designing games more. If pros like m2k, azen, and so on were the ones being paid to help design brawl, it would have been the most intense and UNBELIEVABLE fighting game ever! Though I don't think brawl is horrible i think that their philosophy into making the game was a bit off. I think that if they made a game with lots of depth such as in melee and explained the advanced techniques in a manual or in game-video, more people would actually be interested in brawl.

Actually average players would turn off the game if they had to. Today I played a casual melee player for the first time in about 5 years. He was so amazed simply at my movement speed and I'm by no means the fastest player. I tried to show him how I was doing what I was doing but it was too much so he was like...nah screw that man. Basically I agree your idea is good though but to add to it they could always have 2 options or more maybe. Kinda like Mario kart when you choose auto or manual. It would simply have easy(Brawl) Intermediate(brawl+ish) and Advance(meleeish)

 

[MarioMariox2]

It would simply have easy(Brawl) Intermediate(brawl+ish) and Advance(meleeish)

Then there's Advanced Option 2 (64 ish). You can barely DI but your moves have so much more hitstun.

 

[Archangel]

Then there's Advanced Option 2 (64 ish). You can barely DI but your moves have so much more hitstun.

No that option is called nostalgia and you only unlock it after beating the game on all other modes.

 

[GP&B]

I know it hasn't been brought up in forever, but I would like to clarify that we canNOT currently import just any model. We're currently restricted to MDL0's which only exist in a number of Wii games (a large number, but sometimes properties create a lot of issues). Even at that, some of them take a ton of work to get them to show up in BrawlBox's model viewer (the ultimate Brawl hacking tool that we have). It wasn't that long ago that a particularly skilled hexer got Lloyd Irving fixed up so that I could start a team to work on him.

But we don't need models, now do we? Sometimes vertex hacks can suffice.
Take the moveset with a grain of salt; it was only intended just for overall feeling and wasn't meant to replicate exact frame data or physics. The vertex hack is the main feature.

And if you still aren't aware of what Brawl hacking can do, I recommend reading through all of their entries.

 

[Dingding123]

Wow, sounds like a great project! Can't wait to see these results! Oh, out of curiosity, will you guys keep the edge-grappling attacks as is or will you change it back to how
they were in melee, where you grapple onto whatever solid portion of the stage is in front of you? I'm not gonna lie, I liked the grapple system in melee much better, as well as the fact that you couldn't spam it in close combat without being severely punished.

 

[Dai Tian]

At the moment they're not sure if they can return tethers to wall grapples like in Melee. They might find a solution to that down the line, they might not.

 

[Dingding123]

Wow, yeah, I checked out PM's main thread and they're steps ahead of me - everything I want they're either planning/trying to do or have already done it!

Yeah, I read about how they're having trouble getting the grapple system to work like it did in melee. I'm still more than satisfied with that; they still know exactly what they're doing! At the very least zairs won't be spammable in close combat anymore. Thx tho

 

[The Good Doctor]

What is going on with this?

 

[Dark Sonic]

It's still in alpha of course, but there's been a lot of progress made. Several characters have been made nearly identical to melee physics-wise, a lot of bugs have been fixed, more codes have been made, ect,ect.

JCaesar even ran a free little side tourney with it a few days ago (Greg won ). You should check it out.

http://www.youtube.com/user/JCaesar007


Still kept under wraps for obvious reasons (no need to make people try the game and hate it when it's not even finished).

 

[CloneHat]

How's Brawl+ going when all the developers seem to have switched over to here?

 

[metaXzero]

Pretty sure they can multi-task (those who work on both B+ and Project M). And also, I remember Brawl+ being set so that they only update every few months nowadays (except for bugfixes)

 

[L/A/W]

brawl + made a finalized codeset iirc

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

sorry to be a **** but, why would you bother with this when you can just play melee? :\

 

[Glöwworm]

new characters to play with, better graphics, new stages etc

Think of it as that Melee HD remix you guys were talking about earlier. If they can get the code to be exactly like Melee, you can think of it as a community's Melee HD remix.