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Project M Social Thread

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DrinkingFood

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I DO know how to play him, VERY well, in fact from what I've seen I've spent the most damn time on Link.

I want him to have 1 semi-safe move that can help him deal with pressure, don't act like he's safe in everything else because he's not, you have to be completely stupid if you believe a semi-safe, sped-up and weakened F-tilt move would put him over Fox
Why is the opponent even pressuring you so easily that your slight lack of anti-pressure is catastrophic? If that's the case then his lack of pressure breaking options isn't the problem, it's the way you're playing him. You should be playing keep away a good portion of the game. Regardless, up-b isn't hard to miss with; it's perfectly safe on hit. Since you've spent so much damn time on him surely you know.
If anything, IKE needs better pressure breaking options
Even his up-b is ****ing useless for that
:troll:

EDIT: Can't spoiler troll face... counter trolled.
 

Revven

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so how will we know that project M is complete? I don't like the idea of having a game that keeps constantly changing. I say we put a date on when there will be no further changes to project M. Say December 1st 2014 perhaps. Or even better make it coincide with the release of the next smash game for wii u.
The demo has not changed at all in the last couple of months and likely won't see an update yet still for awhile. Currently the game is not constantly changing, at least as far as the public build is concerned (which is demo 2.1).

It'll be done when it's done.
 

GHNeko

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I guess he doesnt play modern fighting games which usually see balance patches within the 1st 6 months, and then periodically ie BB, SF, MvC, Tekken, KoF, and even SG.

P:M is pretty much updating as much as some of those games, and actually less compared to the rest
 

iLink

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LOL no, do you even play Link at all? F-tilt it has no follow-ups like the jab, Ftilt being faster would be nothing more that a semi-safe GTFawayfromme move, something he doesn't have and something he really needs, he gets eaten alive by every character that's not Bowser or Ganon once they're withing his sword-range because he doesn't have the tools to deal with pressure, and maybe then he could deal with Marth Fairing through all his projectiles and completely outzoning him at sword-range.

In fact I'm completely for making Ftilt weak as hell just to have it made faster so it can actually be utilized



Fixed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7f34ZTU0Xg#t=6m32s
Yes I play him

Ftilt has more horizontal range. And who the hell said said anything about following up after ftilt anyway? I sure as hell didn't. I just said there are different attacks for different situations. It's used more to stuff people out from approaching or as a combo finisher to get some distance from the opponent. If you want someone to get off you, there's always upb, nair or dsmash (which hits on frame 4).

Also Link's nair is surprisingly good against Marth.

It just sounds to me like you need more space control then anything else.
 

Sanity's_Theif

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Why is the opponent even pressuring you so easily that your slight lack of anti-pressure is catastrophic? If that's the case then his lack of pressure breaking options isn't the problem, it's the way you're playing him. You should be playing keep away a good portion of the game. Regardless, up-b isn't hard to miss with; it's perfectly safe on hit. Since you've spent so much damn time on him surely you know.
If anything, IKE needs better pressure breaking options
Even his up-b is ****ing useless for that
:troll:

EDIT: Can't spoiler troll face... counter trolled.
You mean HUGE lack of anti-pressure, once the pressure is on Link is done for. And it doesn't happen so easily, don't try to downplay my skill with comments like that and exaggerated words you're putting in my mouth just to justify your argument. I know how to play Link, I'd go so far as to say I'm the best P:M Link player there is from what I've seen, you can't play keepaway so easily when the boomerang and bombs have start-up lag, the stage is any smaller than FD, or the character has even average speed. His only pressure break is CC downsmash which is only reliable to a certain point, and Up-B OOS which you'd only get to once your being pressured, but that's NOT what I'm talking about, I'm saying Link doesn't have a GTFO move, something to stop oncoming pressure.

Having a faster, weaker f-tilt isn't going to break him and he needs a slight buff because he's certainly not at the level all the other characters have been raised to, if there's anything I learned from the last tournament it's definitely that, and I think I would know since I'm pretty much the only P:M Link main.

Ike doesn't need anything with that ridiculous range and power, and once again I'm talking about stopping oncoming pressure, not getting out of it.
 

iLink

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You have a bunch of projectiles, disjointed hitboxes and nair.

I'm sure you can figure something out.

And I wouldn't say you are the best link either.
 

Archangel

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHzMNN3HBXo
I commented on how ****ty the music was and how that + the music for the last one killed my hype for future videos in that series...
and then he deleted my comment
lol
I deleted your comment and responded too you and then deleted my comment so nobody saw the discussion. I told you and I'll post it here the Audio for this video came out extremely ****ed. In fact the second song chops/repeats for no reason. The first song is skewed in sounds like it was done over the phone....So I decided to swap audio because I just don't feel like processing it again but the replacement song might fit these 2 better in a non comedic way actually. If you stuck around re read my reply or asked me at any point other then just being a ****head you might've known that. Besides ultimately I'm doing the videos for the same reason why I've done every other video that I've ever done. I want to, It's a hobby, It passes time and helps me to continue caring about smash. If you still don't and continue not liking it I honestly don't care. I've got a anti-fan club of about 3 or 4 people you can feel free to join them in hating everything I put up. If you decide to hold your breath until I stop making vids...you'd die. Picture clear enough?

Thanks for linking for the extra views though...
 

Sanity's_Theif

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7f34ZTU0Xg#t=6m32s
Yes I play him

Ftilt has more horizontal range. And who the hell said said anything about following up after ftilt anyway? I sure as hell didn't. I just said there are different attacks for different situations. It's used more to stuff people out from approaching or as a combo finisher to get some distance from the opponent. If you want someone to get off you, there's always upb, nair or dsmash (which hits on frame 4).

Also Link's nair is surprisingly good against Marth.

It just sounds to me like you need more space control then anything else.
Obviously not a Link main, you're not very good, half the time it doesn't look like you know what you're doing. That video certainly doesn't help your case, the only time you use f-tilt really is to edgeguard and that's just because you didn't feeling like going off the edge for whatever reason, N-air offstage is much more reliable.

if you need horizontal range just jab, it's quicker, and has-follow-ups, in any other case, if you need to cover more area, utilt is the answer, making side-tilt useless.

You said a faster f-tilt would overshadow everything else, comparing it to jab, I was pointing out it has no follow-ups and wouldn't have much power so it definitely wouldn't.

It does a terrible job at stopping approaches cause it's too slow, this is why it should be faster and weaker, so it can actually do the job. And it's certainly a terrible choice for a combo finisher, what would you combo into it with? Boomerang? Fair or F-smash is a better, stronger option. You're just stating theory.

Marth's Fair > Link's Nair

Link doesn't need any more space control, his projectile do that fine, he just needs 1 anti-approach move to offset his good amount of start-up and endlag that he has on almost every single move.

And I wouldn't say you are the best link either.
Who would you say is? Haven't seen anyone worth watching really.
 

iLink

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Obviously not a Link main, you're not very good, half the time it doesn't look like you know what you're doing. That video certainly doesn't help your case, the only time you use f-tilt really is to edgeguard and that's just because you didn't feeling like going off the edge for whatever reason, N-air offstage is much more reliable.

if you need horizontal range just jab, it's quicker, and has-follow-ups, in any other case, if you need to cover more area, utilt is the answer, making side-tilt useless.

You said a faster f-tilt would overshadow everything else, comparing it to jab, I was pointing out it has no follow-ups and wouldn't have much power so it definitely wouldn't.

It does a terrible job at stopping approaches cause it's too slow, this is why it should be faster and weaker, so it can actually do the job. And it's certainly a terrible choice for a combo finisher, what would you combo into it with? Boomerang? Fair or F-smash is a better, stronger option. You're just stating theory.

Marth's Fair > Link's Nair

Link doesn't need any more space control, his projectile do that fine, he just needs 1 anti-approach move to offset his good amount of start-up and endlag that he has on almost every single move.



Who would you say is? Haven't seen anyone worth watching really.
Lol I'm just going to stop taking you seriously now. I don't only use ftilt for edgeguarding. In fact, the first one that actually hits was to punish a spot dodge. The instances when I did use ftilt to edgeguard, I was just playing it safe. I was getting hit with misfires all day that day and didn't want to be stuck dealing with it off stage, so I could time my attacks easier onstage.

And the only matches you have are against that Temp guy. No offense but you do absolutely nothing impressive, even against a guy that clearly doesn't look like he has a very good grasp of the game at all. In fact, you do repeated mistakes over and over against even against someone that is clearly not very good. Some instances I notice you keep trying to dsmash him and he repeatedly just jumps over them and hits you. Hmm I wonder what attack you could use instead...
 

Hylian

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I played ProjectM again in the past week and have been seeing some pretty interesting things. I think Link may require a couple more changes to make him a more viable competitor, but I'll wait to suggest them until I play it some more to be sure.

A lot of characters seem to have been buffed significantly, while Link had minor tweaks that (imo) would put him into high tier in Melee. It preserved the feel of Melee Link (and he does feel much, much better than Brawl Link ever did) but didn't buff him enough to keep pace with the others. The main issue is Link's stage control being very weak now with the buffs to so many other characters' projectiles.
Link is amazing, and I think he keeps up with all the best characters very well. He has some of the best stage control in the game I don't think you are utilizing all of his new tools if you think that. Do you AGT/Instantthrow/breverse/AGTZair/ZdropIT etc? His rang is one of the best stage control moves in the game and is absurdly good as well.

LOL no, do you even play Link at all? F-tilt it has no follow-ups like the jab, Ftilt being faster would be nothing more that a semi-safe GTFawayfromme move, something he doesn't have and something he really needs, he gets eaten alive by every character that's not Bowser or Ganon once they're withing his sword-range because he doesn't have the tools to deal with pressure, and maybe then he could deal with Marth Fairing through all his projectiles and completely outzoning him at sword-range.

In fact I'm completely for making Ftilt weak as hell just to have it made faster so it can actually be utilized

Fixed
I find Ftilt to be a very useful tool and perfect as is. It's useful for spacing/edgeguarding(it's REALLY useful for edgeguarding) and is a viable mix-up in several situations. Link has great tools for dealing with pressure in his nair/jab and is very good at keeping people out at medium range in general.

I DO know how to play him, VERY well, in fact from what I've seen I've spent the most damn time on Link.

I want him to have 1 semi-safe move that can help him deal with pressure, don't act like he's safe in everything else because he's not, in fact Link is one of the most easily punished, 90% of his moveset has has more than enough end-lag or start-up lag for someone to counter-attack easily, you have to be completely stupid if you believe a semi-safe, sped-up and weakened F-tilt move would put him over Fox
You shouldn't be so fast to say others would be stupid for thinking something if you think 90% of his moveset is easily punished. Almost every character is easily punished if you are whiffing moves, links boomerang alone makes him incredibly hard to punish and gives him amazing defensive and offensive approach options.

You mean HUGE lack of anti-pressure, once the pressure is on Link is done for. And it doesn't happen so easily, don't try to downplay my skill with comments like that and exaggerated words you're putting in my mouth just to justify your argument. I know how to play Link, I'd go so far as to say I'm the best P:M Link player there is from what I've seen, you can't play keepaway so easily when the boomerang and bombs have start-up lag, the stage is any smaller than FD, or the character has even average speed. His only pressure break is CC downsmash which is only reliable to a certain point, and Up-B OOS which you'd only get to once your being pressured, but that's NOT what I'm talking about, I'm saying Link doesn't have a GTFO move, something to stop oncoming pressure.
Or you know..OoS nair/jab/usmash/roll/returningrang etc etc. You think you are the best link based off what? I mean, I personally think I have put more time into link and discovered more things with him than anyone but I don't run around saying I'm the best link because I don't have anyone to compare it to and watching videos doesn't really tell you how good someone is unless they are playing someone you've played before.


Having a faster, weaker f-tilt isn't going to break him and he needs a slight buff because he's certainly not at the level all the other characters have been raised to, if there's anything I learned from the last tournament it's definitely that, and I think I would know since I'm pretty much the only P:M Link main.

Ike doesn't need anything with that ridiculous range and power, and once again I'm talking about stopping oncoming pressure, not getting out of it.
You are the only Link main? Get out of here man LOL. Have you ever thought of attributing your losses to yourself and not your character? Link has plenty of tools to deal with pretty much every character in the game(I say this from experience not theory-crafting). While he isn't the best of the best he's very viable in pretty much every match-up. He has absurd combo ability, one of the best recoveries in the game(if you argue this you aren't using correct recovery options and you probably aren't even aware of his recovery options lol) amazing gimping ability, amazing survivability, amazing keepaway game. Link is just all around a very good character as he currently is and there isn't much reason to buff anything about him. The way you are describing what he needs makes me think you don't use all of his options effectively.

I play both Melee/Brawl at a pretty high level, am very technical, and I play P:M with good melee/brawl players all the time I'm saying these things out of experience and practice with the character not theory-crafting.


Here is a random game of me playing if you are interested: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMxjnmIb2ZQ
And here is some of the tech's I'm talking about that other links don't use: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23wohXeAz-A
 

GP&B

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I AGT a ton myself with both Links, but I don't B-reverse a lot. I never played Brawl extensively so I don't largely comprehend the benefits. I've been trying more bomb tricks recently (Z-dropping and later AGT-ing them as seen necessary) and they're a lot of fun and not bad situational tools. Hylian's got probably the best scope of Link given that he's played both sides of him very, very extensively.

Looking through the tech video, what purpose does Z-drop AGT serve?
 

iLink

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Basically just gives you the option to do other things like aerials while still having access to the bomb in front of you to AGT if need to.
 

GP&B

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Sounds situational given Link's falling speed and the only aerial that I'd see reliably allowing you to pick up the bomb again would be Nair, possibly Bair too.
Although, I can actually imagine this being a decent edgeguarding tool given that you would have immediate access to a projectile along with using AGT to regain height.
 

Hylian

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I AGT a ton myself with both Links, but I don't B-reverse a lot. I never played Brawl extensively so I don't largely comprehend the benefits. I've been trying more bomb tricks recently (Z-dropping and later AGT-ing them as seen necessary) and they're a lot of fun and not bad situational tools. Hylian's got probably the best scope of Link given that he's played both sides of him very, very extensively.

Looking through the tech video, what purpose does Z-drop AGT serve?
It's very situational, though if you do it against characters fast in the air it can cover a full hop approach surprising well and just puts the bomb at a weird angle for certain edgeguards. It's not terribly useful honestly.

What's really useful is downwards AGT to instant throw AGT in any direction. Lets you avoid pretty much all gimps, fake people out in the air, and just gives you a ton of surprising options that can really confuse your opponent. Not sure if melee players here are familiar with instant throwing, but it's basically catching an item with an airdodge, and then cancelling the first few frames of an airdodge with an item throw. You can also agt out of this. So you can catch something and instantly have it flying back at whoever threw it at you, or do crazy stuff with link like AGT the bomb downwards and then instant throw it and agt in whatever direction you need to just completely throw off your opponent, dodge gimps, combo etc.
 

GP&B

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As in the video, you speed downward with the bomb so you can catch it immediately after your throwing animation ends. As like in Melee, you can catch an item within the start of an airdodge and with P:M, you can then AGT it within the same airdodge.
 

Dingding123

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bro i am link mian

have 0 prolums vs like
anyone

wanna know what I think we should talk about tho?

All physics and movement take effect 1 frame lateAll physics and movement take effect 1 frame lateAll physics and movement take effect 1 frame lateAll physics and movement take effect 1 frame lateAll physics and movement take effect 1 frame lateAll physics and movement take effect 1 frame lateAll physics and movement take effect 1 frame lateAll physics and movement take effect 1 frame lateAll physics and movement take effect 1 frame lateAll physics and movement take effect 1 frame lateAll physics and movement take effect 1 frame lateAll physics and movement take effect 1 frame lateAll physics and movement take effect 1 frame lateAll physics and movement take effect 1 frame lateAll physics and movement take effect 1 frame lateAll physics and movement take effect 1 frame late
 

GP&B

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to be honest i don't really understand what that means/it doesn't affect me much.
It's honestly one of the more overrated problems out there. Nobody ever in the history of Smash is that frame-tight to the point that it would cause them to take longer than a half hour at the most to adjust to. Shield mechanics are a far bigger deal as they heavily affect characters capable of aggressive shield pressure (ie. spacies).
 

Metà

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the biggest thing it affects is the feel of the game. right now the one frame delay is a pretty substantial barrier to matching melee in terms of feel, but there is no point in discussing it any further at this point in time unless any of you know ways to fix it

i have faith in magus' wizardry

:phone:
 

Soft Serve

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Kink he said agt>instant throw. That'd be throwing then catching (then throwing)
If you AGT down you end up falling right next to the bomb at the same speed it is falling, so you can air dodge again, picking up the bomb, and then throw it again in the same air dodge you used to catch it. So you could do stuff like AGT down, Air dodge right and throw upwards. the timing is exactly the same as a regular AGT, you just sort of have to assume you will pick up the bomb.

If you just fast fall the bomb throw it puts you at the same speed and position relative to the bomb as an AGT. It's easier but less reliable as any amount of momentum sideways can mess up your spacing next to the bomb.
 

ph00tbag

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I'm very good at doing AFYSGFs.

Those are those new Brawl techniques.

Only certain characters can do them on certain stages, but they're so good.
 

Metà

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anyone find link's ledgehop a little odd? it seems like either his double jump or his landing detection is screwy, because i can't seem to ledgehop waveland, he seems to do the same thing as ganon in melee where he has no landing lag

to see what i mean, try doing an empty ledge hop and try wavelanding back off
:phone:
 

DrinkingFood

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Brawl landing detection makes characters land earlier so ledge dashing may be much more difficult/impossible.

I deleted your comment and responded too you and then deleted my comment so nobody saw the discussion. I told you and I'll post it here the Audio for this video came out extremely ****ed. In fact the second song chops/repeats for no reason. The first song is skewed in sounds like it was done over the phone....So I decided to swap audio because I just don't feel like processing it again but the replacement song might fit these 2 better in a non comedic way actually. If you stuck around re read my reply or asked me at any point other then just being a ****head you might've known that. Besides ultimately I'm doing the videos for the same reason why I've done every other video that I've ever done. I want to, It's a hobby, It passes time and helps me to continue caring about smash. If you still don't and continue not liking it I honestly don't care. I've got a anti-fan club of about 3 or 4 people you can feel free to join them in hating everything I put up. If you decide to hold your breath until I stop making vids...you'd die. Picture clear enough?

Thanks for linking for the extra views though...
You need to ****in' chill dude. I was never attacking you- I was attacking your choice of music. Which was bad in both cases, and I think would still have been bad even if the music hadn't ****ed up. If it's a hobby, fine, I'm not hating on your hobby. I would like to make combo videos too but I have neither the tools nor the skills. Idgaf about your anti-fan club. If anything, I'd hate you not for your videos, but because you took my untemperred criticism as a personal attack rather than just that- criticism.
EDIT: Also, I like the new music a lot more (than the music of either video, actually). It's only too bad it's post production and can't be synced.
 

Archangel

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Brawl landing detection makes characters land earlier so ledge dashing may be much more difficult/impossible.



You need to ****in' chill dude. I was never attacking you- I was attacking your choice of music. Which was bad in both cases, and I think would still have been bad even if the music hadn't ****ed up. If it's a hobby, fine, I'm not hating on your hobby. I would like to make combo videos too but I have neither the tools nor the skills. Idgaf about your anti-fan club. If anything, I'd hate you not for your videos, but because you took my untemperred criticism as a personal attack rather than just that- criticism.
EDIT: Also, I like the new music a lot more (than the music of either video, actually). It's only too bad it's post production and can't be synced.
I'm calm, I just know how these things go. I've been in enough of these kind of conflicts to know that it's better to lay it all out early then drag it on for pages and waste everyone's time. What you did was not a personal attack or criticism, you just sort of spazzed out. There are people who love the music you hate and hate the music you love. Stop looking at things from such an egocentric point of few. I tried to inform you of what was going on in PMs on youtube but they either didn't get through or you didn't see them. So you take to smashboards in an attempt to gain sympathy/support for the injustice of me deleting your comment instead of reading to see what the hell was actually going on...That's what annoyed me. Didn't make me mad just annoyed the hell out of me.

As for the new music you are right...but it turned out ok regardless because it's ****ing falcon and snake. Just out of curiosity what kind of music do you like? Also, If you have an interest in Zelda characters(Seems you do) They are next.
 
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