Nelo Vergil
Smash Master
Port Town should go back to banned, and Halbred needs to go back to CP, otherwise I like it alot =D. But its his tournament, and his calls, every region has its own flair after all.
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QFTSolaris1110 said:I love the stage list lol. More stages = more of what people play brawl for.
I think you're just looking at this wrong fraser. You're right they were unbroken before but we didn't "fix" them persay, just changed them to try out a wider array of stages and CP's to make the game more interesting.New stages suck and there was no reason to change them. putting some really good cp's in the neutral category is uncalled for and not based on any real need.. i don't see why the unbroken stage system is being fixed when it didn't need it unless this is just the new host's adding a "personal flair" to distinguish these monthlies from our old ones. Absolutely unnecessary IMO.
lol I figured you'd be one to have issues with this. This is not a desire to add "personal flair" to the monthlies, but rather slightly different philosophy on what Brawl is. I'm sure you know I've always been an advocate of allowing more stages (see PS2). Why should we restrict ourselves to the least radical of stages? Why remove elements from a game when they don't actually influence the outcome of a match in a negative fashion? Stages should be banned for one or more of three reasons.New stages suck and there was no reason to change them. putting some really good cp's in the neutral category is uncalled for and not based on any real need.. i don't see why the unbroken stage system is being fixed when it didn't need it unless this is just the new host's adding a "personal flair" to distinguish these monthlies from our old ones. Absolutely unnecessary IMO.
Lies!!!!!!!!!hopefully We Won't Play Every First Match On Smashville Anymore
Yeah, those are the exact same 3 stages that I have an issue with as well, but I can deal.i support everything except green greens (campy and random bull****) and pipes (even though its a good stage for me, it has walk offs however situational, extreme ability to plank and those blocks can be kind of dumb too)
i didn't like port town aero drive but mike w proved his point
I'm told to interpret this facetiously.this tourney needs moar legal planking, and moar halberd for starter.
I use Ness and Mr. Game & Watch in tournaments. Neither can be chaingrabbed up the slope on Yoshi's Island (Melee) or Distant Planet by King Dedede.@ Colin: have fun placing when a d3 CPs you to Distant planet, or yoshi pipes.
The presence of random elements that affect gameplay isn't a reason to ban a stage. It's only a problem if the random elements create non-negligible variance in the outcome of matches.@ T-Block: Pirate ship doesn't have random elements that affect gameplay? The cannons? The catapult, the LOW GRAVITY in certain intervals?
Every form on pictochat is reasonable. None introduce excessive variance to the outcome of the match, and none provide notable character benefits. All of the hazards are either benign or easily avoided. This is a very fair stage.Pictochat doesn't have random elements that affect gameplay? Like... everything that spawns into that map?
What's broken about either of these things? You don't approach every stage the same; playing on Green Greens requires some knowledge of how to handle the "falling blocks", notably not getting hit by them recklessly.How about Green Greens? with falling blocks that can turn out to be bombs or the wind which can gimp last ditch recoveries?
What's broken about any of these things? Listing elements of a stage that differ from "flat ground" does not constitute an argument of why the stage should be banned.Or PS2 with dreaded Low gravity, tread mills, etc.
As I mentioned above, the rain actually contributes to the fairness of Distant Planet, by decreasing the viability of camping the slope; overall, it's an excellent balancing measure. As for the monster, it is difficult to imagine being killed by this hazard if you are at all familiar with the stage.Distant planet, with random rainstorms that make one side of the map unplayable, and the random monster-gay-thing that can kill on the opposite side of the map?
Luigi's Mansion is a very tactically deep stage. A naive approach of running to the centre of the bottom floor the mansion and getting ***** is not the right way to handle it. You don't actually make any argument here.Luigi's Mansion... Oh right you guys don't have metaknights. NM, keep it.
The Summit is broken because it has a loop. Rumble Falls is actually fair and I would support it being a counterpick. It's really no different in spirit from Rainbow Cruise, which is always allowed.I mean, jesus christ bro, why don't you put in The Summit or Rumble Falls while you're at it?
Unfortunately, the reason for banning most of these stages has little to do with their being broken, and you haven't provided any arguments otherwise.There's a reason why TOs ban these maps. Not because they're "gay", but because they have unfair advantages to characters, and the random elements risk upsetting a match that should be based on player skill, but luck of the map effects.
I lose more respect for you every post you make. You're extremely ill informed and make no real argument. Read Colin's post please, there's no point repeating everything he said. We have no SBR certified banned stages on this list, only the ones from counter/banned. We're doing nothing incredibly outlandish or stupid, we're just experimenting with what we think could be fair.this tourney needs moar legal planking, and moar halberd for starter.
*edit*
@ Colin: have fun placing when a d3 CPs you to Distant planet, or yoshi pipes.
@ T-Block: Pirate ship doesn't have random elements that affect gameplay? The cannons? The catapult, the LOW GRAVITY in certain intervals?
Pictochat doesn't have random elements that affect gameplay? Like... everything that spawns into that map?
How about Green Greens? with falling blocks that can turn out to be bombs or the wind which can gimp last ditch recoveries?
Or PS2 with dreaded Low gravity, tread mills, etc.
Distant planet, with random rainstorms that make one side of the map unplayable, and the random monster-gay-thing that can kill on the opposite side of the map?
Luigi's Mansion... Oh right you guys don't have metaknights. NM, keep it.
I mean, jesus christ bro, why don't you put in The Summit or Rumble Falls while you're at it? There's a reason why TOs ban these maps. Not because they're "gay", but because they have unfair advantages to characters, and the random elements risk upsetting a match that should be based on player skill, but luck of the map effects.
I don't think i would consider things like PS2's low gravity or halberd's weapons random. You know the stuff is there and you can easily see it coming. It takes skill to make use of those things against ur opponent. I don't see why you consider these things 'random'.Colin, gg.
The fact of the matter however is, any and all random elements are frowned upon in a game that's intent is based around skill being the deciding factor and not luck. In an ideal situation (technically speaking) we would all be playing on battlefield or final D, but due to advantages/disadvantages in matchups counter picking maps come into play. However, that being said. We should still strive for as little random element as we can manage. Hence less hostile stage events, less altered physics, and so on. Which is why every single one of those maps listed, SHOULD be banned.
You could argue that each of those stages can easily be traversed without the map itself harming you. But that train of thought would allow me to argue that you should have items in tournament play. Sure they're random in both appearance and affect, but if you're good, you can avoid them or grab them first, right?
/swordgard
You're guessing I thought it was legit because it was a starter in Melee? Honestly? I almost take offense to that. Almost. Trust me, I know the games are different, and I certainly did not suggest it as a starter just because it was in Melee.ps1 is a terrible starter, mike.
there are walls everywhere in every transformation except the grass one in brawl. many characters have infinites; the walls and corners create caves of life; there is stalling when some of the transformations are up. I'm guessing that you probably thought it was legit cause it was a starter in melee, but...it's way different in each game
for one, the windmill isn't solid in melee. secondly...the characters are bigger in brawl. I don't know how that's supposed to affect anything, but for some reason it just feels like it does. maybe it's because they're more susceptible to being hit into walls and not living as a result. I also forgot to mention there's that stupid thing on the right side that prevents rolling and stuff during the rock transformation; I personally don't have a huge problem with it, but I know luke does because it ****s up edgeguarding. not to mention the only infinites in the corners in melee are fox's shine, cause everything else is easily DI'able. and last, it's worth noting that the stage isn't even a starter in the new melee back room stage list for melee cause of people camping and waiting out the rock transformation (and less often, the fire one).
so yeah, sorry for comparing it to melee, I'm just showing why the stage works completely different in both games, and just because it is / used to be a starter in melee, doesn't necessarily mean it should be for brawl.
I don't see why there would be no point. Input from everyone is being considered, unless they bring up a poor argument of if their argument is very uneducated.Alright. This is my list of neutrals. At least, imo.
wait, nvm. there's no real point anyway. XD;
Nah. I've already brought up my points with Mike, and I'm certain he's relayed to you as well. Though my points are valid, there's also points that Mike and you can make for the likes of Halberd too; and as one who is organizing the tournaments, I have to respect the hosts and their decisions, after all. I got no gripes.I don't see why there would be no point. Input from everyone is being considered, unless they bring up a poor argument of if their argument is very uneducated.