ROM 5 - Mew2King vs Unknown522

[kd-]

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/08/01/sport/olympics-badminton-scandal/index.html
http://kotaku.com/5938303/league-of-legends-pro-gamers-stripped-of-winnings-for-scheming-on-the-side
http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/ne...ing-mlg-summer-championship-league-of-legends

Seems like it's able to be banned or at least forbidden and punishable depending on the rule's wording and the integrity of the tournament.

 

[King Funk]

Moral of the story, need a rule to limit button checks to 2 minutes before a set max.

Two minutes is way too much. 30 seconds at MOST.

 

[Kal]

You can make a rule banning anything. The question is whether it's enforceable. I hope it's immediately obvious that neither a rule about splitting nor a rule about forfeiting are enforceable.

 

[DarkDragoon]

I agree with this 100%.

This.
Jason did very little wrong.
-DD

 

[Charlesz]

Unknown should have made it a little less obvious, that was the worst GF of a major tournament I've ever seen.

 

[Kadano]

I can't find the results thread, can someone post a link?

 

[Vinylic.]

There's no results thread yet.

 

[prog]

All of ya shut the **** up u all sound like Lil *****es

Who r ya to say they can't spilt

It's a ****ing video game they can do whatever the **** they want if they got that far in brakit

I'm ****ing glad I don't play anymore u smashers now a days r lil *****es ya ***** about everything instead of trying to get good your selfs

When you and Hax split at No Johns you two at least played it out. I'm fine with splitting when all is said and done, but play it out for pride.

 

[LivewiresXe]

I'm just going to say that while I haven't been following Smash for a year or so (been focusing on other fighters) and only watched ROM5 because a friend of mine was in it, this marks the 5th time at least since mid 09 (that's not including the time I haven't been following) and the common denominator in just about all of them has been M2K. Now, I'm not saying start banning him or to do so if something like this happens again but...SOMETHING has to be done to stop crap like this from happening. Like, I dunno, if throwing or forfeiting takes place, then the guy in 4th gets the respective person's money or something.

It's just unfortunately that stuff like this happened because it's things like this that reflect negatively to the rest of the FGC not just on the Melee community, but on the Smash community as a whole.

 

[KrIsP!]

m2k has split many, many times in the past without any TO screwage whatsoever. I don't see why Unknown would have been less likely to split if he'd lost WS's

KK didn't split? yeah right. That's why he wanted to play kirby vs Pichu in WF's.

They often do that. I don't think you get that these guys have been playing against eachother for like...8 years and both their kirby and pichu are super legit. They were forced to play with top tiers while unknown was controller johning. Whether legit or not I feel like Kirby Pichu winners would have actually been fun to watch from these two, but they were barred from doing something that isn't illegal.

 

[Charlesz]

To me this is mostly Unknown' fault, instead of asking whether it was ok for M2k to go back to FD in game 5 before the match; he complains after the match is over. While M2k actually played out GF; Unknown played like a *****, threw in the towel and made it obvious that a split happened.

PS: I don't like Unknown because he came over to a local tourny once and continued to play friendlies when people needed and told him that they had to use the TV to play a tourney matches. Needless to say he got his fat *** kick by the high level players and I was shocked he didn't even throw a chair LOL.

 

[clowsui]

All I'm going to say is that M2K should be implicated in this far more than he is accepting right now.

 

[Eggm]

Damn,

I had a ton of fun this tournament and left happy, and my whole car was hype and having fun speculating about who would win the tournament on the way home and mentioning how we were hype to watch the video archives of the finals and stuff, and then this is how the tournament is remembered now? Lame.

M2k, you should think about others sometimes from their point of view, instead of just from your own. When you made that huge stink about playing hax, it totally deflated my spirit (no johns, you ***** me and always do). I was all excited to play you and warming up, and GIMR comes up to me and is like "go play hax, m2k forfeited" and I could have just went and played him right away, but instead, I said "Are you sure?" and he walked over to you and then I saw you guys and alukard all complaining and stuff for like 20 minutes, and it was really a big downer man, I was really excited to play you while I was playing well.

I realized you might have been down from having to replay that game 5, but think of me, and others, like alukard who worked so hard to put together the tournament and just run with it. =\

Also, try and think of the community, and vgbootcamp working so hard to get us on the front page of twitch TV and are trying hard to get us incorporated into the FGC and evo (which would make smash much bigger and make YOU more money in the long run than splitting) and just man up and stop acting childish. Your hurting the community more than you think.

Edit: I just also wanted to point out for the record, i'm with hugs on this one, I'd trade every dollar I've earned from smash over the years just to have won last night.

I'm really upset I didn't just go play hax immediately when GIMR told me to, because this whole thing would have been avoided. ><

 

[KrIsP!]

Two minutes is way too much. 30 seconds at MOST.

We can debate on the time, but I just want to emphasize that anything larger than 2 minutes is ********. As in maximum. I watched 20 minutes of warm ups for reals, even in between matches. I think we can settle on 1 minute, my point is we can set the time limit in game to 1 minute and literally ENFORCE this.

To me this is mostly Unknown' fault, instead of asking whether it was ok for M2k to go back to FD in game 5 before the match; he complains after the match is over. While M2k actually played out GF; Unknown played like a *****, threw in the towel and made it obvious that a split happened.

He did ask, he asked more than one person and they all said it was legal. Also I think your just being disrespectful, I don't know what beef you have with him but your contributing nothing to this conversation.

The splitting rule is pretty controversial. On one hand people do it to not worry about the money and just play for reals. On the other hand, if you don't know a person very well you can really **** with them by saying that.

This was a series of bad decisions on many parts. I really see no point in blaming KK at all because his set with unknown seemed like a normal set with unknown, people just wanted hype from rivals. Kirby Pichu has been done by them, same as fox falco and he obviously tried against M2K, he's being implicated in this. If anything I feel bad for Hax who had his last chance at breaking the 5th place wall during Year of the Falco, he should have had a legit set with Eggm. I realize I'm being just as bad as other people with jumping in this but a lot of people are throwing out blame cause their mad, not because they have any good reasons.

 

[LivewiresXe]

To me this is mostly Unknown' fault, instead of asking whether it was ok for M2k to go back to FD in game 5 before the match; he complains after the match is over. While M2k actually played out GF; Unknown played like a *****, threw in the towel and made it obvious that a split happened.

PS: I don't like Unknown because he came over to a local tourny once and continued to play friendlies when people needed and told him that they had to use the TV to play a tourney matches. Needless to say he got his fat *** kick by the high level players and I was shocked he didn't even throw a chair LOL.

I have to respectfully disagree with you on this one, my old friend. However, since you've had personal negative experience with Unknown, I can kinda understand.

All I'm going to say is that M2K should be implicated in this far more than he is accepting right now.

Just glad I'm not the only person thinking this...

 

[Jim Morrison]

All splitting does is show a lack of character (under normal conditions where you're both able to play each other obviously).
If one player knows he can't win and proposes to split, the better player that accepts the split is a ****** for not putting on a show and not taking more money than he can.
If they're both evenly matched and both want to split because they get equal money then, both of them are ******* because they apparently play Melee for money. Why would you play this dumb game for money when there's 1 million to be earned in League Of Legends? If you have any heart whatsoever for the game, you give your best to beat the other player to show you're worth the weight.

******* splitters, it's even worse when the two splitting aren't friends.

 

[The Business]

Another one of your posts that is pretty much completely wrong...

Read the OP:

If I told you before a tourney set that we're supposed to play a best-of-1 match and you agreed to it, then after the match you found out it was done wrong, whose fault is it? It's not my fault, it's YOUR fault for starting the match without asking for TO clarification.

The player who objects is the player responsible for checking with the TO. Why should the initiating player be responsible?

By saying that it is the fault of the person who got lied to you are encouraging people to lie to their opponents about rulesets to get an unfair advantage in a set. M2K was the one who was about to break the rules, not Unknown.

 

[Charlesz]

We can debate on the time, but I just want to emphasize that anything larger than 2 minutes is ********. As in maximum. I watched 20 minutes of warm ups for reals, even in between matches. I think we can settle on 1 minute, my point is we can set the time limit in game to 1 minute and literally ENFORCE this.



He did ask, he asked more than one person and they all said it was legal. Also I think your just being disrespectful, I don't know what beef you have with him but your contributing nothing to this conversation.

The splitting rule is pretty controversial. On one hand people do it to not worry about the money and just play for reals. On the other hand, if you don't know a person very well you can really **** with them by saying that.

Pretty sure he didn't ask the TO. But assuming I'm wrong and your right. Then why did Unknown complain to Alukard after the match was over if it was indeed legal.

 

[outofphase]

we should shift focus to what we are going to do about this as a community. its already happened and splitting wasnt made explicitly illegal, so we shouldnt have retroactive punishments. i say we give out a blanket warning to the entire community and modify the mbr ruleset to ban splitting. we also need to be more uniform when it comes to rules. i still think stages and other things should be left up to TO though. i like that smash isnt very regulated, but we need to find that balance.

 

[Eggm]

I agree with switching the timer to 1 minute for warmups btw, that's a great idea. Button checks in marvel and street fighter occasionally take 1 minute, especially if someone messes up the order of their team and stuff while the game is loading.

Also, all TV's are different, and that 1 minute will ensure everyone gets to watch the best possible play from the players. M2k taking like 3 minutes to warm up before he played me was also deflating on top of everything else. Also him johning about his controller to inui during our match after death comboing me more than once was also kinda disrespectful. Tight. No johns though, m2k always beats me anyway without all these circumstances, but I think I could have put on a better show vs him, if he just acted more adult.

 

[KrIsP!]

Pretty sure he didn't ask the TO. But assuming I'm wrong and your right. Then why did Unknown complain to Alukard after the match was over if it was indeed legal.

He didn't ask the TO and I don't agree with them replaying but he was told that the rule was okay and neither of us were there so we can't be sure, some were saying someone told Alukard and he went to talk to unknown about it, others are saying unknown went to talk to him about it.

 

[Lukahn]

gentleman clause.

also, can't say i'm okay for splitting, but it's their money. can do whatever the **** they want with it. as long as it's not explicitely written in the rules you can't.

and lol, i'm on stream, or people are watching me. i'm gonna warmup for 15 minutes so that they can see i got to much techskill.

edit : and yes, playing your mates sucks but hey, when the bracket order's made, it's mate. deal with it and don't just suddenly randomely change it for "people entertainment". e sport is a valid form of competition. we don't give a single **** about who you're going to play against. be it your roommate you play x time a day.

edit 2 : as for dsr it say "you can't play on the LAST stage you won on". +gentleman clause. legit victory.

 

[Charlesz]

He didn't ask the TO and I don't agree with them replaying but he was told that the rule was okay and neither of us were there so we can't be sure, some were saying someone told Alukard and he went to talk to unknown about it, others are saying unknown went to talk to him about it.

Are you saying he did nothing wrong? I saw the stream and based off what people who were there are saying, Unknown agreed to play game 5 on FD against m2k. But he *****ed and complain to Alukard afterwards instead of accepting that he lost fair and square at the time to a stage he agreed on . How about attempting to play Pichu vs Kirby against KK on stream and the performance he gave in GF.

 

[Hot_ArmS]

i was gonna turn off my xbox to watch the last sets of rom, glad i didnt

 

[Alukard]

Jason Zimmerman aka M2K i'm really disappointed in you ... as a human being ... you just dont stop and now to keep playing the victim at every turn is just the worst thing a person could do. Unknown and KirbyKaze you guys both just abused the kindness of this community as a whole and i do not forgive you guys.

a few things to the poor misinformed souls

SPLITTING

It happens in the FGC ... I AM IN THE FGC ... I HAVE SPLIT IN EVERY GAME EVER!! MONEY IS MONEY... BUT I STILL TRIED TO WIN! ... BUT PEOPLE STILL PLAY TO WIN THE DAM TOURNAMENT!! CHRIS G SPLITS WITH RAYRAY EVERY DAM WEEK UNLESS HE NEEDS TO PAY A BILL OR JUST NEEDS MORE MONEY ON SAID WEEK ! BUT CHRIS G STILL WINS EVERY ****ING WEEK!

FLOATING BRACKET

THIS HAS HAPPENED IN THE FGC TOP8 AT WINTERBRAWL 6 . MARYLAND DJ HOUSHEN VS UNKNOWN AND NEW YORK RAYRAY VS MYSELF ... So we agreed and pleaded for a "float" so instead they had me play houshen and rayray play unknown ... what happened after the float ? Nothing but good games and people being grateful for the decision by trying hard all the way through.

COLLUSION

This is something that is not directly addressed as a rule yet but i promise you all it will ... but please you guys need to stop pm'ing me about making a rule .... its pretty obvious that its already in effect and we are all trying to make sure this doesn't happen again. We are all truly sorry you had to sit there and watch the "finals"

CHEATING

M2K IS GETTING AWAY WITH MURDER. THIS HAS BEEN HAPPENING THROUGHOUT ALL MY TIME BEING A PART OF THE SMASH COMMUNITY. ANYONE THAT HAS HAD TO HOST A TOURNAMENT FOR M2K KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. HE PURPOSELY HOLDS UP MATCHES. DOESN'T REPORT MATCHES. ASK PEOPLE TO PLAY ON FD AND SWINDLES THEM INTO DOING SO BY ABUSING THE POWER THAT HE HAS AS A TOP PLAYER. SOME OF THE NEWER PLAYERS ARE JUST SO HAPPY TO BE PLAYING M2K THAT THEY AGREE TO TERMS JUST TO PLAY M2K ... AND THATS WRONG ITS SO WRONG. REPLAYING THE MATCH WAS ONLY BECAUSE HE DIRECTLY LIED TO UNKNOWN ABOUT THE RULES AND BEING THE KIND AND NICE PEOPLE WE ARE IN THE SMASH COMMUNITY HE BELIEVED HIM. AFTER IT ALL M2K COMES UP TO ME AND SAYS HE THOUGHT HE COULD TELL HIM TO PLAY ON FD BECAUSE HE DOES THIS ALL THE TIME "EVERYTHING I DID TODAY I DO ALL THE TIME AT EVERY EVENT!" .....................

THIS CANNOT CONTINUE

I'M SO HURT AND DISAPPOINTED WITH THE TOP 3 PLACING PLAYERS AT MY EVENT. I HAVE BLED FOR THIS COMMUNITY AND MADE IT MY LIFE TO BE AN EVENT ORGANIZER FOR TONS OF GAMES BUT I ALWAYS LOOK OUT FOR SMASH AND HAVE BEEN PUSHING IT FOR EVO AND THIS IS THE THANKS I GET ... ALL MY HARD WORK JUST THROWN OUT A WINDOW IN AN HOUR .... ALL THE PUSH I HAVE DONE TO GIVE THE HONEST CARING PEOPLE IN THIS COMMUNITY WHAT THEY DESERVE ... YOU GUYS JUST TOOK IT AWAY .......


There is more to add to this whole ordeal. I'm sorry to the ones that still have the drive and care about the game and the rest of the community ... i tried to decide things the best i could to clean up the mess these babies have created.

I TRULY CANT EXPLAIN HOW MUCH THIS HURT ME PERSONALLY.

 

[Scar]

Let's fix the ruleset and move on.

I feel like the above is sort of the "/thread". It would be sick if we could have a place to have that productive conversation but I'm not sure what the organization of the boards are nowadays.

 

[prog]

I feel like the above is sort of the "/thread". It would be sick if we could have a place to have that productive conversation but I'm not sure what the organization of the boards are nowadays.

Yeah. There was discussion of what version of the game. Let's get standardization across the board for all aspects of tournaments and a lot of issues that reared their heads this weekend are gone.

 

[Scar]

Yeah I'd love to see someone put it in the featured threads list, and actually moderate the discussion so it stays productive.

 

[prog]

Tournament organizers and a couple player representatives should mull it all over. Every aspect from game version to "button checks" etc. etc.

 

[King Funk]

SPLITTING

It happens in the FGC ... I AM IN THE FGC ... I HAVE SPLIT IN EVERY GAME EVER MONEY IS MONEY BUT I STILL TRIED TO WIN! ... BUT PEOPLE STILL PLAY TO WIN THE DAM TOURNAMENT!! CHRIS G SPLITS WITH RAYRAY EVERY DAM WEEK UNLESS HE NEEDS TO PAY A BILL OR JUST NEEDS MORE MONEY ON SAID WEEK ! BUT CHRIS G STILL WINS EVERY ****ING WEEK!

Completely true. I still don't understand why people would not try their best just because they split. It's not like there was that much money on the line.

FLOATING BRACKET

THIS HAS HAPPENED IN THE FGC TOP8 AT WINTERBRAWL 6 . MARYLAND DJ HOUSHEN VS UNKNOWN AND NEW YORK RAYRAY VS MYSELF ... So we agreed and pleaded for a "float" so instead they had me play houshen and rayray play unknown ... what happened after the float ? Nothing but good games and people being grateful for the decision by trying hard all the way through.

OK, now that I disagree. I was told by some people who were at the event that the float was agreed between you and the 4 players in Winners bracket, but not with the people in Losers. They should at least have had a say to that, because they're being given different opponents in the process.

If they DID have a say and I was misinformed, then please forgive me for assuming such things.

CHEATING

M2K IS GETTING AWAY WITH MURDER. THIS HAS BEEN HAPPENING THROUGHOUT ALL MY TIME BEING A PART OF THE SMASH COMMUNITY. ANYONE THAT HAS HAD TO HOST A TOURNAMENT FOR M2K KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. HE PURPOSELY HOLDS UP MATCHES. DOESN'T REPORT MATCHES. ASK PEOPLE TO PLAY ON FD AND SWINDLES THEM INTO DOING SO BY ABUSING THE POWER THAT HE HAS AS A TOP PLAYER. SOME OF THE NEWER PLAYERS ARE JUST SO HAPPY TO BE PLAYING M2K THAT THEY AGREE TO TERMS JUST TO PLAY M2K ... AND THATS WRONG ITS SO WRONG. REPLAYING THE MATCH WAS ONLY BECAUSE HE DIRECTLY LIED TO UNKNOWN ABOUT THE RULES AND BEING THE KIND AND NICE PEOPLE WE ARE IN THE SMASH COMMUNITY HE BELIEVED HIM. AFTER IT ALL M2K COMES UP TO ME AND SAYS HE THOUGHT HE COULD TELL HIM TO PLAY ON FD BECAUSE HE DOES THIS ALL THE TIME "EVERYTHING I DID TODAY I DO ALL THE TIME AT EVERY EVENT!" .....................

Are you sure that M2K lied about it? It seemed more like there was confusion between DSR and MDSR.

THIS CANNOT CONTINUE

I'M SO HURT AND DISAPPOINTED WITH THE TOP 3 PLACING PLAYERS AT MY EVENT. I HAVE BLED FOR THIS COMMUNITY AND MADE IT MY LIFE TO BE AN EVENT ORGANIZER FOR TONS OF GAMES BUT I ALWAYS LOOK OUT FOR SMASH AND HAVE BEEN PUSHING IT FOR EVO AND THIS IS THE THANKS I GET ... ALL MY HARD WORK JUST THROWN OUT A WINDOW IN AN HOUR .... ALL THE PUSH I HAVE DONE TO GIVE THE HONEST CARING PEOPLE IN THIS COMMUNITY WHAT THEY DESERVE ... YOU GUYS JUST TOOK IT AWAY .......


There is more to add to this whole ordeal. I'm sorry to the ones that still have the drive and care about the game and the rest of the community ... i tried to decide things the best i could to clean up the mess these babies have created.

I TRULY CANT EXPLAIN HOW MUCH THIS HURT ME PERSONALLY.

I'm really sorry to hear that, and I absolutely appreciate all the work you've done for this community. You shouldn't let this get to you too much, because you know you're not really not to blame for all of this.

 

[idea]

Unknown actually has a job right now, he doesn't need the money.

What I don't understand from all this is how there could be so much depression and demotivation so far into such an exciting tournament. You could see it on their faces, all of the top 3 were sad, even though they were smiling on camera throughout the rest of the day.

 

[LivewiresXe]

I'd like to quote Alukard's entire post, but I don't want to take up unnecessary space in the thread. I do however think there's a large bit of truth to things going on and being let slide because well, M2K is M2K, aka the most well known Smash player around essentially. He's essentially the Daigo or Justin Wong of Smash, to make that comparison (although as far as I'm aware there hasn't been controversy like this involving either of them, even though I could be wrong, but that's not the point here), so people will, as has been pointed out, get a little intimidated and star struck to be playing him like most would if they were playing Daigo in AE2012, Combofiend in UMVC3, or Bala in KOF.

That being said, I think some people are kind of missing that ultimately M2K is ONE GUY. Yes, he's a well known player respected for his skills, but he's still one guy and as such should follow the same rules and be held to the same expectations and rules as everybody else. If hurrying him to get ready in the same time as everybody else, stick to the stage rules, and pushing him to actually report matches winds up making him take his ball and go home, then he's still just ONE PERSON that's doing so. And while I don't know the exact number of entrants for ROM, I know it was a lot, so "a lot minus 1" is still "a lot", and the wheel of...let's say 85 (for the sake of throwing out a number) doesn't stop and become obsolete and un-important with regards to the wants of the 86th person.

 

[JPOBS]

Hax should have won this tournament

 

[PGH Carroll]

My quick iPhone 2 cents.

Don't split at nationals.

Also forfeits should be strictly between player and TO.
If you wanna give up, go right to the TO and say I'm done. And that is FINAL.

And these button checks need time limits. 1 minute max. It's smash.. Our buttons don't change. We've been playing this same game for years. It's called X+Y+Start for 3 seconds. And magic!! Your Controller is perfect.

That said, I understand the need for m2k when it's a big brawl/melee tourny but this was rom.

 

[BunBun]

It's this kind of stuff in combination with setup issues that led me to not recommend smash at evo =(

For the record, splitting is fine, but not playing it out is dumb.

 

[Cactuar]

M2K can't claim to not have known until after the set. I told him and unknown prior to match 5 starting that he was not allowed to go to fd unless unknown agreed, and unknown stated that he would not agree to play fd again if that was the case. I went back and talked to alukard to clarify the rules immediately after telling them this. Alukard was immediately available to confirm the rule. From what I gather, m2k continued to pressure unknown to agree after I left, and unknown caved because he was being nice and didn't want to hold up the stream.

 

[Gea]

Why are button checks for more than 10 seconds even a thing? This isn't a matter of customizing your controls, this is "oh ****, is my controller working properly? Yes okay"

Warmups are a waste of bracket time.

Edit: and all of these ****ing controller johns needs to stop. It's on you to have a functional controller for the tournament.

 

[-ACE-]

Alukard should have made the rule well known as juggleguy said.... At this point in melee this rule is atypical.

I don't blame them for the split after all the hype was killed. It's respectful in a way to split in this situation, regarding unknown vs m2k. Sucks for KK though. Generally I don't like splits.

 

[Zoler]

M2K can't claim to not have known until after the set. I told him and unknown prior to match 5 starting that he was not allowed to go to fd unless unknown agreed, and unknown stated that he would not agree to play fd again if that was the case. I went back and talked to alukard to clarify the rules immediately after telling them this. Alukard was immediately available to confirm the rule. From what I gather, m2k continued to pressure unknown to agree after I left, and unknown caved because he was being nice and didn't want to hold up the stream.

If this is true I'm really disappointed in m2k....

Still really weird of Unknown to accept it and then change his mind after he lost. Kind of smart though, he gets two tries at winning the final match.

 

[Cactuar]

It's not a button check. It's "get familiar with the TV and warm up for 2 minutes". But button check is easier to say.