Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[3Bismyname]

Forgot the Spolosion Man Series, Captain Smiley, Gun Stringer, and Happy Wars.

All of these would work in an all-star brawler.

I had never heard of any of those games besides gunstringer but after watching a few clips, yeah they would def work. But I still stick by the idea that xbox couldn't pull it off without a lot of third party help

 

[8-peacock-8]

I think i might try to make a James Bond moveset because i can.

I had never heard of any of those games besides gunstringer but after watching a few clips, yeah they would def work. But I still stick by the idea that xbox couldn't pull it off without a lot of third party help

They would need a lot.

*Insert CoD soldier, Duke Nukem, Doom Guy, Minecraft guy, Dragon Born, and Vault Boy here*

Anyway, let's get back on topic.

 

[Reyson]

I had never heard of any of those games besides gunstringer but after watching a few clips, yeah they would def work. But I still stick by the idea that xbox couldn't pull it off without a lot of third party help

I've never heard of half the characters in Playstation Smash, but they managed to get into the game.

 

[Deleted member]

B-K isn't even really all that Nintendo-like anyway. He really has a small history with it, being omitted from the remake of DKR. I wouldn't give him much of a Nintendo status. Killer Instinct had Nintendo Status, at the very least, though. All the games were that and Arcade, same with the Mario/DK Arcade games.

What the **** are you talking about? That ****'s borderline blasphemy. When people mention Rare, 4 things come to mind in the following order: Banjo-Kazooie, Conker, Donkey Kong Country, Goldeneye 64.

Banjo is more iconic to Nintendo than Microsoft, being known for arguably THE BEST platformer/adventure game on the Nintendo 64. While Super Mario 64, showed off what 3D platfprorming was all about Banjo-Kazooie perfected it. This is the general consensus among ALL gamers who owned an N64.

As for Banjo being ommited from DKR... I don't even know where you're getting the idea that he was going to be in it to begin with. He's owned by M$. There is NO chance of him getting in as he's owned by a rival 1st party company. The Banjo games we got on the GBA were because those contracts had already been made by Rare before the buyover, the development was simply passed on to THQ.

Anyway in short, Banjo is arguably THE most iconic Rare IP, if he was owned by someone other than M$, he would be the most likely IP to get in. He's the FIRST Rare IP that gets mentioned when people bring up the possiblity of a Rare character in Smash, he's been wanted in the game since Melee's development, and people have been wanting a TRUE sequel to his series since the ending to Banjo-Tooie. Lastly, you don't need characters from a fighting franchise to be in Smash Bros, in fact, correct me if I'm wrong, but as it stands now: NONE of the Smash characters come from a fighting game franchise.

tl;dr- Banjo is the most iconic Rare IP, and most representative of Rare's era on the Nintendo consoles, although he's owned by M$. Ownership and Iconography are not interrelated, you can have one without the other, such is the case for Banjo. Even more so when you consider the disappointment that was Nuts and Bolts. If we were gonna get a Rare IP in Smash (which we aren't period, thus this discussion is redundant) it would be Banjo hands down.

 

[N3ON]

It seems Victini is not down for the count yet; there is a new event for it in Japan to celebrate Christmas.
This particular Victini, like a previous one, knows signature moves of Reshiram and Zekrom. However, the moves for this one are the other signature moves; Blue Flare and Bolt Strike. It will also know V-Create as well as normal Kyurem's signature move, Glaciate.

I doubt one event will do anything for Victini's chances, especially since this event seems no more special or important than any other Pokemon event. Plus Pokemon like Cubchoo, Pidove, and Scraggy have had events, so events don't necessarily signify great importance anyway. Not to say Victini is only at the level of those three, it is still obviously one of the more popular and marketed Pokemon this generation, but this honestly does very little, if anything, for Victini's chances.

B-K isn't even really all that Nintendo-like anyway. He really has a small history with it, being omitted from the remake of DKR. I wouldn't give him much of a Nintendo status. Killer Instinct had Nintendo Status, at the very least, though. All the games were that and Arcade, same with the Mario/DK Arcade games.

I'm quite confused at to why Killer Instinct has "Nintendo Status" when B&K do not. Sure, neither of them do anymore, but at one point both did, it was never one and not the other. Just because Microsoft has yet to do something with KI, doesn't mean it's retained its Nintendo status, the IP is fully owned by Microsoft.

Also, while subjective, I'm sure the majority of people would agree that B&K is much more Nintendo-oriented than Killer Instinct. There's a reason why B&K are the most clamored for IP to return to Nintendo, and why Banjo & Kazooie are the most requested Rare character for Smash.

Lastly, Killer Instinct and B&K have pretty much the same status in Nintendo's history: two main games developed by Rare and published by Nintendo, both owned by Rare and bought by Microsoft. Plus Banjo had three more appearances on Nintendo's systems than any KI character did.

As for Banjo being ommited from DKR... I don't even know where you're getting the idea that he was going to be in it to begin with. He's owned by M$. There is NO chance of him getting in as he's owned by a rival 1st party company. The Banjo games we got on the GBA were because those contracts had already been made by Rare before the buyover, the development was simply passed on to THQ.

I agree with pretty much everything you said, but Rare and Microsoft don't have a problem with making games for Nintendo's portables, as Microsoft has no portable to compete with Nintendo, so technically B&K, Conker, KI, or any Rare IP could still show up on a Nintendo portable (like Viva Pinata did). If Microsoft really had a problem with Rare working with Nintendo, they wouldn't have allowed them to developed DKRDS anyway. The most likely reason why Banjo and Conker weren't there was because of licensing costs.

There were also those rumors a while back about Rare suggesting DKC4 or B-K for DS to Nintendo, but Nintendo choosing for them to remake DKR instead (which, if true, is upsetting).
http://gonintendo.com/?mode=viewstory&id=178950

Plus this could also apply to Banjo in Smash 4, there's pretty much no chance of him appearing on the 3DS version whatsoever, but it's not technically impossible, unlike appearing on the Wii U.

 

[SmasherMaster]

I think Victini is more likely than Genesect and maybe even more than Zoroark.

 

[3Bismyname]

I think Victini is more likely than Genesect and maybe even more than Zoroark.

Probably about equal with Genesect. but by camparison to Zoroark Victini just doesn't seem all that likely. but that's just my opinion.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Banjo and Kazooie in Super Smash Bros would probably be the only newcomer at this point that would cause a big shock with everyone. Like imagine the famous "NEWCOMER: SNAKE" but at least x5 more potent.

Unfortunately it won't happen because of Microsoft being a bunch of dolts who wants to drag Rare down to helln

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Since we are basically just talking about Rare, I figure this was worth potsing.

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...trilogy_to_be_pulled_from_wii_virtual_console

Probably has something to do with Rare.

 

[---]

Looking back at the past few pages, this thread is looking more and more like the old thread. lol

Also Rare is gone, I can understand wanting old characters that Nintendo should/used to own, but it's time to let them go. They're not the "Rare" we all know and love (or in my case indifferent) and they're irrelevant to Smash at this point...same goes for Geno.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Since we are basically just talking about Rare, I figure this was worth potsing.

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...trilogy_to_be_pulled_from_wii_virtual_console

Probably has something to do with Rare.

Sad face.

Also Rare is gone, I can understand wanting old characters that Nintendo should/used to own, but it's time to let them go. They're not the "Rare" we all know and love (or in my case indifferent) and they're irrelevant to Smash at this point...same goes for Geno.

Also this.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Looking back at the past few pages, this thread is looking more and more like the old thread. lol

Also Rare is gone, I can understand wanting old characters that Nintendo should/used to own, but it's time to let them go. They're not the "Rare" we all know and love (or in my case indifferent) and they're irrelevant to Smash at this point...same goes for Geno.

As far as the Rare thing goes, yeah, the Rare of today is not the same as it was many years ago. Most of the people responsible for the games everyone remembers/likes are long gone.

 

[Deleted member]

If it did, none of DKC Trilogy games would have ever made an appearance.

It might be Nintendo in the process of shutting down the VC for the Wii.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

If it did, none of DKC Trilogy games would have ever made an appearance.

It might be Nintendo in the process of shutting down the VC for the Wii.

I have no idea why Nintendo would be shutting the VC down now. The Wii U hasn't even launched in most of the world yet - most companies don't start shutting services for their old systems down until years after the original system has "died." And if it were true, why start with these games? And why only in Europe? Europe+DKC to me suggests Rare is involved somehow.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'm quite confused at to why Killer Instinct has "Nintendo Status" when B&K do not. Sure, neither of them do anymore, but at one point both did, it was never one and not the other. Just because Microsoft has yet to do something with KI, doesn't mean it's retained its Nintendo status, the IP is fully owned by Microsoft.

Killer Instinct has not had an X-Box game and more Nintendo games than B-K. He has more Nintendo-wise. But eh, my opinion. It's still currently Nintendo-related, and Arcade-related game-wise at this time.

Also, while subjective, I'm sure the majority of people would agree that B&K is much more Nintendo-oriented than Killer Instinct. There's a reason why B&K are the most clamored for IP to return to Nintendo, and why Banjo & Kazooie are the most requested Rare character for Smash.

It's because the n64 was excellent with platformers. And it was often considered the "good" version of Donkey Kong 64, since collecting stuff wasn't a royal pain in comparison.

Lastly, Killer Instinct and B&K have pretty much the same status in Nintendo's history: two main games developed by Rare and published by Nintendo, both owned by Rare and bought by Microsoft. Plus Banjo had three more appearances on Nintendo's systems than any KI character did.

There are 3 Killer Instinct games. Not two. There are only two B-K games. It's true B-K had more cameos, yes. But that was only in another Rare-made game. I was going by actual games made, not overall appearances, but as I said, that's how I personally view it.

I agree with pretty much everything you said, but Rare and Microsoft don't have a problem with making games for Nintendo's portables, as Microsoft has no portable to compete with Nintendo, so technically B&K, Conker, KI, or any Rare IP could still show up on a Nintendo portable (like Viva Pinata did). If Microsoft really had a problem with Rare working with Nintendo, they wouldn't have allowed them to developed DKRDS anyway. The most likely reason why Banjo and Conker weren't there was because of licensing costs.

Diddy Kong is owned by Nintendo now. The remake had the Microsoft-owned characters removed. Or specifically, the ones who had their own games(B-K and Conker). The rest were all DKR originals, I believe. Of course Microsoft didn't allow them to use any series that they own. At that time, anyway.

 

[8-peacock-8]

There are only two B-K games.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Was that before Rare left? I stand corrected, but just curious about that.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Was that before Rare left? I stand corrected, but just curious about that.

It was after the left, unfortunately, but it's still real.

Theres also this.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

It was after the left, unfortunately, but it's still real.

Theres also this.

The reason I ask is whether Microsoft had them at the time or not. Because if they did, that means they simply allowed them to make the games on there, not entirely Rare's choice.

As I said, I stand corrected. However, one thing that is correct is that Killer Instinct, console/handheld-wise is pure Nintendo.(Arcade Cabinets do not counts as Consoles, respectively. That, and many Nintendo games have Arcade stuff, but are still mainly Nintendo, same with other Companies/Series.) Albeit, this is my opinion of it.

Let me rephrase; Killer Instinct has no game aligned with another company outside of Nintendo as of this time. However, it's clear that since Microsoft renewed the IP, there's probably no chance of Fulgore(or whomever) ever appearing in Smash. Whether they make a game or not. B-K is far more likely, no doubt about it.

 

[8-peacock-8]

The reason I ask is whether Microsoft had them at the time or not. Because if they did, that means they simply allowed them to make the games on there, not entirely Rare's choice.

As I said, I stand corrected. However, one thing that is correct is that Killer Instinct, console/handheld-wise is pure Nintendo.(Arcade Cabinets do not counts as Consoles, respectively. That, and many Nintendo games have Arcade stuff, but are still mainly Nintendo, same with other Companies/Series.) Albeit, this is my opinion of it.

Let me rephrase; Killer Instinct has no game aligned with another company outside of Nintendo as of this time. However, it's clear that since Microsoft renewed the IP, there's probably no chance of Fulgore(or whomever) ever appearing in Smash. Whether they make a game or not. B-K is far more likely, no doubt about it.

Yeah, i was just correcting the entire "Theres only two B-K games on Nintendo consoles" thing.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yeah, i was just correcting the entire "Theres only two B-K games on Nintendo consoles" thing.

Technically, that's still true, since Handhelds are treated as differently from Consoles, but it's the same with Killer Instinct. Albeit, it had a handheld game first. But anyway, overall games, B-K has it over them.

I still consider KI more Nintendo-related if only because it has no games outside of it(well, opposing systems/consoles/handhelds) and Arcade. But that makes sense, you know?

Clayfighter is also mostly Nintendo too, so that'd be neat. Other than the single Genesis game, everything else is Nintendo. If Interact even releases their latest game, it'd be fun to see, say, Laffy Taffy. The characters do fit in rather well, imo.

 

[smashfreak111]

Maybe they'll pull an awesome and stick with the name Smash Bros. Universe and have all the char's from the previous games, plus new ones.

Usually nintendo uses a word from the back of the game case of the previous game, like how melee says "all star brawl". If that's the case with SSB4, then it will probably be called Super smash bros collision

 

[Deleted member]

I doubt one event will do anything for Victini's chances, especially since this event seems no more special or important than any other Pokemon event. Plus Pokemon like Cubchoo, Pidove, and Scraggy have had events, so events don't necessarily signify great importance anyway. Not to say Victini is only at the level of those three, it is still obviously one of the more popular and marketed Pokemon this generation, but this honestly does very little, if anything, for Victini's chances.

The Scraggy event was exclusive to America, Cubchoo is from 2010, and Pidove was merely marketing for the anime for an Egg that would either hatch into one, a Pansage, or an Axew, to represent Pokemon from the main cast of the new season.
Aside from that, what the event is likely to do is give Victini that extra push from the fanbase that died down since its movie came out and Genesect became the Flavor of the Month. I never said that the event itself signifies importance. Just that Victini is not quite down for the count.
Also, this is quite literally the 3rd event Victini has had since B/W came out...kind of comparable to "big shot" Zoroark.

@The new guy: Smash 64 didn't have the word "melee" on the back.

 

[Arcadenik]

As far as the Rare thing goes, yeah, the Rare of today is not the same as it was many years ago. Most of the people responsible for the games everyone remembers/likes are long gone.

Meh, I don't really care about Rare's newer games. I only want their older games from past Nintendo consoles to be available on Wii Virtual Console.

 

[FlareHabanero]

It's not surprising that Victini would get another distribution with stupidly powerful moves to toy with considering that it's Junichi Masuda's favorite Pokemon.

But on the bright side, at least it's not useless like Masuda's other favorite Pichu. Admittedly Victini is three times more ugly though.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Lastly, Killer Instinct and B&K have pretty much the same status in Nintendo's history: two main games developed by Rare and published by Nintendo, both owned by Rare and bought by Microsoft. Plus Banjo had three more appearances on Nintendo's systems than any KI character did.

This is true, though I faintly recall at least Sabrewulf starring in some kind of standalone game from Rare. Believe it was on N64, but I forgot the name now.

And MS mostly uses Rare for making XBL avatars and some stupid Kinect titles now, though Rare had already become a shell of their former selves after N&B. With the amount of sales MS gets from the casual**** of the Kinect in addition to Halo, Gears, and such, I guess they haven't felt the need to really make much use of Rare's IPs, which is a shame, but the same can be said for some franchises Nintendo left in the dust themselves this gen, while they were swimming in money like Donald Duck from all the sales made from the casual**** of the Wii.

Oh, as for Ninty pulling the three DKCs from the virtual console, that is odd... Guess I better make sure one of my friend's Wii has the 3rd one before it's too late then (don't care too much for having them on my Wii's VC since I still have like both the SNES and GBA copies of the three games somewhere, lol).

 

[Arcadenik]

Nintendo removing Donkey Kong Country trilogy from European Wii Virtual Console... I hope it does not hinder King K. Rool's and Dixie Kong's chances of getting in Smash 4. At least I already downloaded those games a long time ago so it wouldn't adversely affect me if Nintendo decides to pull them from American Wii Virtual Console... hopefully.

 

[yani]

Also Rare is gone, I can understand wanting old characters that Nintendo should/used to own, but it's time to let them go. They're not the "Rare" we all know and love (or in my case indifferent) and they're irrelevant to Smash at this point...same goes for Geno.

Feels bad man

Spoiler

you're right though.

</3

 

[Reyson]

It's not surprising that Victini would get another distribution with stupidly powerful moves to toy with considering that it's Junichi Masuda's favorite Pokemon.

But on the bright side, at least it's not useless like Masuda's other favorite Pichu. Admittedly Victini is three times more ugly though.

I always thought Victini looked more like a Digimon than a Pokémon, there's just something about those huge eyes that screams Digimon to me.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Nintendo removing Donkey Kong Country trilogy from European Wii Virtual Console... I hope it does not hinder King K. Rool's and Dixie Kong's chances of getting in Smash 4. At least I already downloaded those games a long time ago so it wouldn't adversely affect me if Nintendo decides to pull them from American Wii Virtual Console... hopefully.

Prolly right. I'm taking action though as far as someone getting the 3rd DKC on their virtual console ahead of time just in case they decide to eventually do the same to the whole American VC...

 

[gsninja]

I think Victini is more likely than Genesect and maybe even more than Zoroark.

I dunno about more likely than Zoroark, but if I could choose one new Pokemon for SSB4, it would be Victini. Psychic/Fire typing has all the potential for a sexy Smash movepool.

 

[ChronoBound]

Looking back at the past few pages, this thread is looking more and more like the old thread. lol

Also Rare is gone, I can understand wanting old characters that Nintendo should/used to own, but it's time to let them go. They're not the "Rare" we all know and love (or in my case indifferent) and they're irrelevant to Smash at this point...same goes for Geno.

Bingo. The Rare of the 1990's is long dead. Even ex-Rare developers have said this. All this talk about B-K being in Smash 4 is wishful thinking, perhaps B-K will be the Geno for Smash 4?

As others have mentioned, the DKC trilogy was taken off the Wii's Virtual Console. No other Nintendo titles aside from these have been taken off, so I assume that there was some sort of contract to allow to the DKC trilogy to even be allowed on in the first place, and both Nintendo and Microsoft could not agree on terms that would allow them to continue to be sold on the VC, so they were taken off when contract time table expired.

This may also tie into the greater theme, of how Nintendo in recent years has been trying to move more away from Rare's influence on the series. Jungle Beat had no Rare characters in it, and it was the first major DK developed by a first-party studio in a over a decade. DKCReturns was a massive success despite the only DKC characters returning being Diddy, Cranky, Rambi, and Squawks. In Mario Kart 7, the DK stage was based off Returns.

Returns saw a return to the series to its sales prestige of the SNES/N64 days. In Japan only, DKCReturns broke nearly a million copies sold. Its largely possible that Smash 4 bases most of its DK content off of DKCReturns, while character/content outside of Returns gets the more neglible content (trophies, sticks, songs). Keep in mind too, that the only game to feature Dixie and K. Rool after Brawl's release was Mario Super Sluggers (which was only a few months after Brawl's release). This disappearance of the extended DKC cast has been going on for a while.

Overall, it seems the ghost of Rare is gradually becoming less noticeable in all aspects were it used have some sort of presence (character influence for DK and Star Fox, and first party efforts for Microsoft). In regards to Microsoft, things have degraded so for Rare that Microsoft is contemplating a name-change for the company (or what's left of it) and they are basically stuck making Kinect Sports games and X-Box avatars. I think there is a good chance we might not see any major Rare efforts for Microsoft's successor console like we did for the 360.

If there is no DK newcomer for Smash 4, it will probably be a repeat of the reaction when it was learned Ridley did not make it in Brawl. However, it has been trending for a while for most of Rare's DK characters to have been fading away from the series.

I think there is quite a bit of the "conventional wisdom" that exists within the Smash Bros. speculation fanbase that warrants some more skepticism in general though. The example of a DK newcomer being a "guarantee" is one of them.

Its still very bizarre that the DKC trilogy got pulled from the VC.

 

[Deleted member]

@shinpichu: Nintendo owns copyright to the DKC trilogy games and all the contents to it. If Rare/Microsoft had any say to it, we would have never gotten it in the first place.

...just figured out that they got removed from NA. And this is why I've learned to never rely on digital service for classic games, it's not reliable.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Already? **** them for doing it on such short notice. **** them all to hell.

Oh well.

 

[Deleted member]

So, onto a different topic for a bit. I want some opinions on this.

Everyone always clamors for Chrom, and essentially says that Chrom is guaranteed a spot in SSB4 given that he's the lead hero of the new Fire Emblem.

But what about... Lucina?

She's apparently just as important to the story as Chrom, if not even more, and could serve as a good rep for the new Fire Emblem. In fact, if we get Chrom, we have the complication of either replacing Ike, which many people would be unhappy about, or adding another middle-weight clone-esque character with little originality. Something no-one is too excited about.

However, if we get Lucina she could basically replace Marth, and I doubt many would mind it so much given that

Spoiler

she's Marth's descendant, and actively impersonates him for a portion of the game.

So, as far as Smash is concerned she would just be a reskin of Marth with a female voice, of course, it would also be an excuse to update Marth's movepool (along with Ike's dear God, give the man Axes). Not to mention, she seems to have gathered a strong following among Japanese fans, the amount of fan art of her is insane.

Thoughts? What are the chances of this happening in your opinion? I think they're pretty good personally. I'll see if I can make a support thread for her, because really, she's the solution to the FE dilemma. If she replaces Marth, then we could have a 3rd FE rep, be it Roy, Lyn, or anyone else.

Anyway, Lucina for those of you who don't know:

[/URL] Uploaded with ImageShack.us[/IMG]

A little something I picked up from a draw thread on 4chan.

 

[Graizen]

 

[N3ON]

Boo to the DKC games getting removed from the VC. Especially with no notice for the NA VC. I was planning on picking up DKC2.

In fact, if we get Chrom, we have the complication of either replacing Ike, which many people would be unhappy about...

...However, if we get Lucina she could basically replace Marth

Why is replacing Ike undesirable but replacing Marth valid?

Just because Lucina is new doesn't mean she should replace the face of the series, who has appeared in four more games than she has, and greatly outweighs her in popularity. Plus the majority of Smash players wouldn't know that

Spoiler

Lucina is a descendant of Marth and impersonates him (not that that's justification for him being hypothetically replaced anyway),

they'd just see someone who replaced Marth. Which they wouldn't be happy with.

Though some probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference between them anyway.

What are the chances of this happening in your opinion? I think they're pretty good personally. I'll see if I can make a support thread for her, because really, she's the solution to the FE dilemma. If she replaces Marth, then we could have a 3rd FE rep, be it Roy, Lyn, or anyone else.

The chances of Lucina appearing are pretty low (as both Chrom and Roy have much better odds) but the chances of her replacing Marth are pretty much non-existant. The chances of anybody replacing Marth are pretty much non-existant. Pichu didn't replace Pikachu, Lucas didn't replace Ness, if anything she'd be a semi-clone.

All that being said, I wouldn't mind seeing Lucina in Smash over Chrom, but personally I'd rather see Ike and Roy return.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Is that the only newcomer you want?

 

[Reyson]

What annoys me the most about Roy is that the vast majority of the people who want him, have never even played the game he starred in, as it was Japanese-only. Just because he was in Melee shouldn't mean he deserves a highly contested spot in SSB4. "But we liked how he played in melee", what makes you think that you wouldn't like the character you get instead of him?
The same goes for Mewtwo, is he popular because of Melee or because of Pokémon itself? If it's the former, I don't see a point in having him in the next game, if it's the latter, he should definitely get a spot.

Marth and Ike are pretty much guaranteed to return, Marth is face of the series and Ike is the most popular character in the West. Ike also has some interesting potential because he'll most likely return as RD Ike, which would make him able to use axes(maybe his father's?) to switch up the combat a bit more.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Glad to see Impa on a lot of these rosters. Might make a support thread soon for her. Was planning to do so earlier, but things ****ed up after posting a whole essay including moveset and everything but yeah... :/

Impa 4 Smash!