Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[lobotheduck21]

So do you think mew has a shot

 

[Deleted member]

Why is replacing Ike undesirable but replacing Marth valid?

Because Ike is more popular than Marth in both the East and West. Ike's movepool still has tons of potential, and no one is really too excited about Chrom getting into Smash especially if he's to replace Ike.

Just because Lucina is new doesn't mean she should replace the face of the series, who has appeared in four more games than she has, and greatly outweighs her in popularity.

Marth isn't popular in the West outside of Smash. Shadow Dragon was an abysmal game and a failure. The other 3 haven't made it to the West yet. Also, you say 4 games, but really, it's been 2, and 2 remakes, plus a DLC cameo in Awakening. Remakes don't count as new games in my book. By those numbers, Ike has had as many games as Marth, and is more popular. The only upperhands that Marth has over him are his Melee appearance, and being the Original Lord.

Plus the majority of Smash players wouldn't know that

Spoiler

Lucina is a descendant of Marth and impersonates him (not that that's justification for him being hypothetically replaced anyway),

they'd just see someone who replaced Marth. Which they wouldn't be happy with.

The majority of Smash players don't even know who Marth is and haven't bothered to play his games. Hell, the majority of FE fans haven't played his games barring Shadow Dragon, which most consider the worst in the series (myself included). I don't see how most Smash players would be bothered to see Marth replaced by an identical clone of him from a more recent game with a similar appearance. I mean, the only things that really change are the sword, the gender, the voice and the name.

The chances of Lucina appearing are pretty low (as both Chrom and Roy have much better odds) but the chances of her replacing Marth are pretty much non-existant. The chances of anybody replacing Marth are pretty much non-existant. Pichu didn't replace Pikachu, Lucas didn't replace Ness, if anything she'd be a semi-clone.

I think it depends on the East really. Because as far as the West stands, Marth's replacement is irrelevant. They're the ones who grew up with the series, we're all still relatively new to the series in comparison, and our iconic figure for the series is actually Ike. I wouldn't say the chances are Non-existant, because unlike Pikachu and Mario, Fire Emblem has a new Hero in each installment. However, Awakening caters a lot to Marth and glorifies him, so we'll see. But the possibility is still there. Mostly because it could work as a simple name and skin change, the character concept/play-style and strategy are all still intact. Not to mention, Lucina in a way sort of acts as the NEW Marth, at least that's the impression I'm getting from all the talk about Awakening. Similar to how Matthew seems to have replaced Isaac in Golden Sun.

Actually, answer me this. How come we can see Matthew come in and replace Isaac as the candidate for a GS rep, but Lucina can't replace Marth? I mean, outside from the fact that Marth is already IN the game. There really wouldn't be too much of a problem if the moves and mechanics stay the same from a fighting game standpoint.

Plus it would be a much more intelligent way to promote Awakening, as seeing Marth get replaced by someone who looks similar would raise enough questions and interest in the game to draw people to look into it. It also wouldn't be a huge spoiler, as 'that' revelation is rather minor, as it's advertised quite frequently.

What annoys me the most about Roy is that the vast majority of the people who want him, have never even played the game he starred in, as it was Japanese-only. Just because he was in Melee shouldn't mean he deserves a highly contested spot in SSB4.

This is what I mean by Smash players know squat about FE. Roy is one of the least iconic Lords, he only made the roster in Melee to promote the release of FE6 in Japan, a game that NEVER made it to the west. In fact, Westerners will never see Roy in an official FE release outside of the Awakening DLC. Still, people feel he's iconic to the series. I feel this further supports my stance about Marth in the West.

"But we liked how he played in melee", what makes you think that you wouldn't like the character you get instead of him?
The same goes for Mewtwo, is he popular because of Melee or because of Pokémon itself? If it's the former, I don't see a point in having him in the next game, if it's the latter, he should definitely get a spot.

I only ever mention Roy, simply so I don't sound like a broken record or annoying fanboy reiterating over and over how I want Lyn in Smash. Personalty I really don't give two ****'s about Roy, I found FE6 to be underwhelming personally, and he's nothing too exciting as a Lord. He WAS cool back in Melee, but I've always been a Marth main. However, his new DLC look is sweet. Mewtwo on the other hand, was a cool an unique character. As for his popularity in Pokemon, well, he's ranked No.2 on IGN.

Marth and Ike are pretty much guaranteed to return, Marth is face of the series and Ike is the most popular character in the West.

Ike is popular in Japan as well, ranked the second most popular Lord right behind Chrom in some polls from a couple months ago (how accurate those polls represent the fanbase and general opinion, don't ask me, as I don't know, also don't ask for sauce, I've been looking for the image for ages and have found nothing, it's an image I came across on /v/ a month ago, some photograph from some magazine). Anyway, on Marth, sure, he may be the face of the series, but with Lucina it could work, as she essentially impersonates him, in fact, you're forced to believe it IS him for part of the game. Not to mention she's related to him.

Anyway, if it doesn't come to happen, this is a simple thing to make happen. Making a Lucina skin or PSA over Marth would be easy as pie, hell, you could even have Lucina in Brawl if you wanted, and we'll probably see the Hacking Community work on that once Awakening comes out.

It's just a way of clearing up the roster a bit and adding more opportunities. As I find Chrom very unoriginal, but Lucina is similar enough to outright replace Marth with the same moves and all. Leaving us at least one more spot on the FE roster for another rep. Once again, Roy, Lyn, Hector Ephriam, etc...

Ike also has some interesting potential because he'll most likely return as RD Ike, which would make him able to use axes(maybe his father's?) to switch up the combat a bit more.

If this doesn't happen I'm gonna be pissed. I was already a bit peeved to see Ike have v+B as counter, seeing Ike comeback with either his old getup, or DLC getup, and no new moves would suck balls. Give the man his badass RD outfit+build, make him a REAL heavyweight fighter, and toss in some goddamn Axes.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Boo to the DKC games getting removed from the VC. Especially with no notice for the NA VC. I was planning on picking up DKC2.

Yeah, still kinda pissed off about that myself.

The same goes for Mewtwo, is he popular because of Melee or because of Pokémon itself? If it's the former, I don't see a point in having him in the next game, if it's the latter, he should definitely get a spot.

It's the latter. Melee was released during the 2nd Pokemon gen, whereas Mewtwo was already popular from everything he appeared in in the 1st gen, including the 1st anime movie he starred in. Anyone who says it's the former is lying to themselves.

I hate when he and Roy are lumped together, especially when Mewtwo wasn't even a gameplay clone of someone whereas Roy was.

So do you think mew has a shot

At being anything other than a rare pokeball Pokemon that floats off in the sky once seen? Not really, why?

 

[lobotheduck21]

At being anything other than a rare pokeball Pokemon that floats off in the sky once seen? Not really, why?

Well, it's one of the most important Pokémon, it's fairly popular, and has the biggest move pool of any Pokemon character, and probably of any character

 

[Diddy Kong]

So Nintendo wants to remove the DKC triology from the VC? Wtf is up with them now again?

On topic about Fire Emblem, we could also you know, have 4 reps. Them being: Marth, Ike, Chrom and Lucina. Lucina could be a sort of Lucas to Marth being Ness, similar with Chrom and Ike. Chrom could already basically function as a 'in between' character of Marth and Ike (balancing Ike's strenght and Marth's speed to something more all-arounded) and Lucina could be the 'faster' Marth (weaker in general but with less lag on her moves). And to distinguis them further as all are swordfighters: Chrom and Lucina use lances while Ike use axes in their moveset (Spear and Tomahawk projectiles anyone?).

It's not all that hard to think of a sollution guys.

And with our beloved memory of Roy, having Lucina as a "Marth-clone" wouldn't be half as bad. The only downside I see is that they all have blue hair. :/

 

[Deleted member]

So Nintendo wants to remove the DKC triology from the VC? Wtf is up with them now again?

On topic about Fire Emblem, we could also you know, have 4 reps. Them being: Marth, Ike, Chrom and Lucina. Lucina could be a sort of Lucas to Marth being Ness, similar with Chrom and Ike. Chrom could already basically function as a 'in between' character of Marth and Ike (balancing Ike's strenght and Marth's speed to something more all-arounded) and Lucina could be the 'faster' Marth (weaker in general but with less lag on her moves). And to distinguis them further as all are swordfighters: Chrom and Lucina use lances while Ike use axes in their moveset (Spear and Tomahawk projectiles anyone?).

It's not all that hard to think of a sollution guys.

Having Lucina is to allow for other Lords to get in. Instead of forcing Chrom down our throats to represent the newest game.

Having Lucina AND Marth is a terrible idea. It would simply mean more clones.

The idea is:

Lucina, Ike, Lyn, whoever else, or no-one.


Anyway, some news:
http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2012/...os-4-regarding-new-characters-and-techniques/

Looks like all the characters are getting new moves, and it seems the decision has already been taken on most of the cast. I hope I'm not a slowpoke here, but well, it's worth posting non-the-less.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Having anyone replace Marth is a terrible idea. Sure, western Smash fans may not recognize his importance to the series(having the most appearances of any Lord, being the first Lord), but they probably wouldn't be familiar with whoever was chosen to "replace" him either.

Anyway, some news:
http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2012/...os-4-regarding-new-characters-and-techniques/

Looks like all the characters are getting new moves, and it seems the decision has already been taken on most of the cast. I hope I'm not a slowpoke here, but well, it's worth posting non-the-less.

That news is pretty old. Anyway, I remember that quote, and I personally remember that Sakurai never said any characters would be getting new moves. He just said that there would be new characters-which was a no-brainer for me, regardless of what some parts of the "speculation community" seem to think-, and I'm sure new characters also means new skills is also a no-brainer.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Well look at this to then please: http://gamerant.com/returning-characters-super-smash-bros-4-riley-158163/ .

I've not seen this image been posted around a lot, and don't know if it's fake or not- but appearantly it's 'official'. And it has Marth.

Oh and I do not think Lyn is a better option than Marth at all. Shadow Dragon might not have been the best Fire Emblem ever, but it did get Marth to the west. And FE3 was- before Awakening- the best (or fastest, don't remember) selling FE game ever in Japan. Also, he's apperantly pretty 'glorified' in Awakening as well (Ike to to some degree), which makes me doubt he won't return.

And I never said Lucina would be a clone, only that she'd be pretty similar to Marth, and yes, maybe they would share a move or two, but I wouldn't say they would be full clones. I think Marth, Ike, Chrom and Lucina are more likely to appear on a 4-character FE roster than not. Even though I'd personally pick Hector but yeah...

Marth needs to stay however, as he's the 'face' of Fire Emblem, has had a lot of request putting him in Melee, is a popular character in Smash Bros. and has had a release in the West (and in all actually: has been in all FE games released after RD, starring 2 out of 3). If any Melee veteran should be replaced, I vote for Sheik. Scrap her for Impa and give Impa an own character spot separate from Zelda.

 

[lobotheduck21]

Replace Marth with Lucina would be like replacing sheik with impa, except even worse

 

[Diddy Kong]

Sheik however doesn't nearly have the signifigance in her respective series as Marth has, and is officially only a 'half-character' to Zelda. Removing her for Impa when she's obviously never gonna return to the series anyway (while Impa will, no doubt) isn't nearly as bad as an idea as people make it out to be.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Replace Marth with Lucina would be like replacing sheik with impa, except even worse

You're playing with fire there.

I'm no Impa fan(by a long shot), but Sheiks importance to LoZ isn't even remotely close to Marths importance to FE. Marth was the main character first game, as well as the 3rd, 11th, and 12th games, also making him the most recurring Lord in the series-a series which doesn't have a lot of recurring characters. Sheik is a fairly well-remembered one-shot character from a very important game in the Zelda franchise.

 

[Deleted member]

Well look at this to then please: http://gamerant.com/returning-characters-super-smash-bros-4-riley-158163/ .

I've not seen this image been posted around a lot, and don't know if it's fake or not- but appearantly it's 'official'. And it has Marth.

Oh and I do not think Lyn is a better option than Marth at all. Shadow Dragon might not have been the best Fire Emblem ever, but it did get Marth to the west. And FE3 was- before Awakening- the best (or fastest, don't remember) selling FE game ever in Japan. Also, he's apperantly pretty 'glorified' in Awakening as well (Ike to to some degree), which makes me doubt he won't return.

And I never said Lucina would be a clone, only that she'd be pretty similar to Marth, and yes, maybe they would share a move or two, but I wouldn't say they would be full clones. I think Marth, Ike, Chrom and Lucina are more likely to appear on a 4-character FE roster than not. Even though I'd personally pick Hector but yeah...

Marth needs to stay however, as he's the 'face' of Fire Emblem, has had a lot of request putting him in Melee, is a popular character in Smash Bros. and has had a release in the West (and in all actually: has been in all FE games released after RD, starring 2 out of 3). If any Melee veteran should be replaced, I vote for Sheik. Scrap her for Impa and give Impa an own character spot separate from Zelda.

Interesting find on that link. We'll see what happens all in all. I was just putting forward an alternate option. Marth, Ike, Chrom and Lucina would be overkill imo, but we'll see.

Also, splitting Zelda up would ruin her character. I think we'll just see a redesign of Shiek to suit the SS art style, like we did in Brawl.

 

[lobotheduck21]

You're playing with fire there.

I'm no Impa fan(by a long shot), but Sheiks importance to LoZ isn't even remotely close to Marths importance to FE. Marth was the main character first game, as well as the 3rd, 11th, and 12th games, also making him the most recurring Lord in the series. Sheik is a fairly well-remembered one-shot character from a very important game in the Zelda franchise.[/

Replace Marth with Lucina is worse than replacing sheik with impa, you guys misunderstood me

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Fix that quote.

And you still made the comparison. You should have just said getting rid of Marth was a bad idea, and not mentioned Impa at all.

 

[lobotheduck21]

Fix that quote.

And you still made the comparison. You should have just said getting rid of Marth was a bad idea, and not mentioned Impa at all.

Sorry I'm on an iPad, so I refuse to fix that quote

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Sorry I'm on an iPad, so I refuse to fix that quote

YOU WILL DO AS I COMMAND! *cracks whip*

jk. Fix it some point though.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Interesting find on that link. We'll see what happens all in all. I was just putting forward an alternate option. Marth, Ike, Chrom and Lucina would be overkill imo, but we'll see.

Also, splitting Zelda up would ruin her character. I think we'll just see a redesign of Shiek to suit the SS art style, like we did in Brawl.

It's a shame that link isn't posted much more, as it seems to me as it's the most 'official' released info we have on characters right now. If it's a fake however, it's nicely done. But I agree with you that we'll just have to wait and see.

You know, before you came with the idea of Lucina, I was supporting 4 FE characters already. They'd be: Marth, Ike, Chrom and Roy. And Chrom and Roy would BOTH be in between characters of the styles of Marth and Ike, yet a little different. I pictured Chrom with an Ike-inspired moveset, but faster and a tipper hitbox (as his sword is also the Falchion) and Roy with a Marth-inspired moveset but stronger, slower and his sword being like Ike's where it doesn't mather where you hit, as long as you hit.

But I realised this was too much swords and is overkill. If done right, Lucina could possibly be much more than a total clone of Marth. She could take over Marth's Melee playstyle for example, and the actual Marth could be more based of Brawl with a few tweaks here and there. She also like Chrom can use lances, so that should AT LEAST give her one special move different from Marth?

Also regarding Sheik, her Brawl-design was actually made by the developers of Twilight Princess, cause they already had a design for her to fit with her TP role, however, that role got scrapped from the game. Maybe it was decided to keep Sheik cause they felt that if Sheik wasn't gonna be in TP, it'd probably be in the next Zelda. HOWEVER... the next Sheikah to appear on a major console Zelda release was: Impa, in Skyward Sword. And Hyrule Historica proves there was not even a Skyward Sword model made for Sheik. Therefore, I see Sheik as the only veteran worthy of being cut. That, and I feel that Zelda infact would be much better of without Sheik, it would finally allow her being a 'own' character. She was always overshadowed by Sheik, and I feel this is cause of poor design. Besides, Zelda/Sheik isn't NEARLY as unique now anymore with characters as Pokemon Trainer and Samus/Zero Suit Samus around.

 

[lobotheduck21]

Wait Sandbag is on that image, he's finally a playable character (starts screaming on the street and crying manly tears of joy)

 

[Deleted member]

It's a shame that link isn't posted much more, as it seems to me as it's the most 'official' released info we have on characters right now. If it's a fake however, it's nicely done. But I agree with you that we'll just have to wait and see.

You know, before you came with the idea of Lucina, I was supporting 4 FE characters already. They'd be: Marth, Ike, Chrom and Roy. And Chrom and Roy would BOTH be in between characters of the styles of Marth and Ike, yet a little different. I pictured Chrom with an Ike-inspired moveset, but faster and a tipper hitbox (as his sword is also the Falchion) and Roy with a Marth-inspired moveset but stronger, slower and his sword being like Ike's where it doesn't mather where you hit, as long as you hit.

But I realised this was too much swords and is overkill. If done right, Lucina could possibly be much more than a total clone of Marth. She could take over Marth's Melee playstyle for example, and the actual Marth could be more based of Brawl with a few tweaks here and there. She also like Chrom can use lances, so that should AT LEAST give her one special move different from Marth?

Well, doing a bit of reading, it appears both Chrom and Lucina share an equal role in the new Fire Emblem as the Main Characters, similar to how the Twins shared the role in FE8. The only difference being that it appears that Lucina is the one being used to promote everything with the new game. Mostly due to the fact that she's the more cute "Moe" of the two, and sex appeal plays a much larger role in this new Fire Emblem. This has earned her more popularity points with the fanbase over Chrom.
I'm also a supporter of the 4 FE reps. However, I think that if we DO, get a fourth one, it won't be a NEW concept, it will likely be someone who has already been in Smash before, most likely Roy.

Also, ultimately, whether Lucina makes the cut or not is irrelevant. As I said before getting her as a reskin of Marth is a cakewalk. The WiiU JUST came out, and the mod community is already getting to work on Homebrew OS. The idea was mostly to promote the possibility of having a wider variety of Fire Emblem reps.

Also regarding Sheik, her Brawl-design was actually made by the developers of Twilight Princess, cause they already had a design for her to fit with her TP role, however, that role got scrapped from the game. Maybe it was decided to keep Sheik cause they felt that if Sheik wasn't gonna be in TP, it'd probably be in the next Zelda. HOWEVER... the next Sheikah to appear on a major console Zelda release was: Impa, in Skyward Sword. And Hyrule Historica proves there was not even a Skyward Sword model made for Sheik. Therefore, I see Sheik as the only veteran worthy of being cut. That, and I feel that Zelda infact would be much better of without Sheik, it would finally allow her being a 'own' character. She was always overshadowed by Sheik, and I feel this is cause of poor design. Besides, Zelda/Sheik isn't NEARLY as unique now anymore with characters as Pokemon Trainer and Samus/Zero Suit Samus around.

I disagree, Sheik dominated back in Melee, but in Brawl it was Zelda who took the stronger role of the two. We just gotta find a decent middle ground. I just think it'd be nice to have it, given the uniqueness of the concept from a fighting game standpoint. As far as representation goes, it's irrelevant to me.

 

[lobotheduck21]

Zelda/Sheik isn't NEARLY as unique now anymore with characters as Pokemon Trainer and Samus/Zero Suit Samus around.

But with PT, you would have to switch around because they get weaker over time, and you can't switch between samus and zzs with out the smash ball, with Zelda and Sheik you can use one, the other, or both

 

[Diddy Kong]

Well, doing a bit of reading, it appears both Chrom and Lucina share an equal role in the new Fire Emblem as the Main Characters, similar to how the Twins shared the role in FE8. The only difference being that it appears that Lucina is the one being used to promote everything with the new game. Mostly due to the fact that she's the more cute "Moe" of the two, and sex appeal plays a much larger role in this new Fire Emblem. This has earned her more popularity points with the fanbase over Chrom.
I'm also a supporter of the 4 FE reps. However, I think that if we DO, get a fourth one, it won't be a NEW concept, it will likely be someone who has already been in Smash before, most likely Roy.

Also, ultimately, whether Lucina makes the cut or not is irrelevant. As I said before getting her as a reskin of Marth is a cakewalk. The WiiU JUST came out, and the mod community is already getting to work on Homebrew OS. The idea was mostly to promote the possibility of having a wider variety of Fire Emblem reps.



I disagree, Sheik dominated back in Melee, but in Brawl it was Zelda who took the stronger role of the two. We just gotta find a decent middle ground. I just think it'd be nice to have it, given the uniqueness of the concept from a fighting game standpoint. As far as representation goes, it's irrelevant to me.

Not disagreeing with you there, as I do also feel that IF we get a 4th FE slot, it'd most likely be Roy due to his fan-demand, and him being a Marth-clone in Melee (thus easier to re-add in the last minute- they could get away with it, face it). But Chrom is also highly suggested, and more recent, AND has a game being released in the west.

Then again, if we are saying Roy being the fourth spot = him being a clone, then why not add Lucina instead as the clone? I think her fan demand will only rise as Awakening gets released in the US and EU, causing fans to abandon our boy for a more relevant feminine choice.

Having her appear as a Marth alternative reskin is also possible. But if that happens, I do hope we'll get to see a lot more reskins similar to that. Alm and Cecil for example could also work great on Marth.

Sheik didn't only dominate in Melee, though her top tier placement there is an obvious reason she is chosen over low tier Zelda. But in Brawl, low / middle tier Sheik is still a hell of a lot better than bottom tier Zelda... So yeah, Sheik was always better than Zelda, and if they are continued being tagged togheter, I doubt this will ever change.

 

[Deleted member]

Not disagreeing with you there, as I do also feel that IF we get a 4th FE slot, it'd most likely be Roy due to his fan-demand, and him being a Marth-clone in Melee (thus easier to re-add in the last minute- they could get away with it, face it). But Chrom is also highly suggested, and more recent, AND has a game being released in the west.

Then again, if we are saying Roy being the fourth spot = him being a clone, then why not add Lucina instead as the clone? I think her fan demand will only rise as Awakening gets released in the US and EU, causing fans to abandon our boy for a more relevant feminine choice.

Having her appear as a Marth alternative reskin is also possible. But if that happens, I do hope we'll get to see a lot more reskins similar to that. Alm and Cecil for example could also work great on Marth.

Sheik didn't only dominate in Melee, though her top tier placement there is an obvious reason she is chosen over low tier Zelda. But in Brawl, low / middle tier Sheik is still a hell of a lot better than bottom tier Zelda... So yeah, Sheik was always better than Zelda, and if they are continued being tagged togheter, I doubt this will ever change.

Well, my ideal I already posted, it simply includes Lyn with a battousai-esque move-pool. But of course, my ideal isn't happening. I could see Lucina getting in over Roy actually, she's more deserving of not only getting in, but also, of having a move-pool based off Marth. So, is it fair to argue that Lucina and Chrom are competing for the 3rd spot, and if we get a 4th spot, it would be the other one?

Alternate costumes are a must-have. As long as it's not DLC or something. If Nintendo goes the DLC route it better be to introduce new characters. Especially since SSB4 will likely get hacked as well, and fans will be able to add whatever costumes and reskins they choose. However, we can pretty much expect Alt costumes, it seems that Wario was sort of hinting at that, and many characters benefit from such a concept, from Mario to C.Falcon to Samus, and Link, to even 3rd party characters like Snake and Sonic.

Last thing? Zelda is low tier? I'm sorry, but I dropped Brawl competitively ages ago. Last I recall was her being better than Sheik and overall pretty decent thanks to her mean Aerial Kicks... Not Top Tier, but somewhere in the middle, above Mario and such. Then again, Brawl is a mess when it comes to balancing. Nintendo needs to take a card from other fighters when developing SSB4.

 

[SmashShadow]

But with PT, you would have to switch around because they get weaker over time, and you can't switch between samus and zzs with out the smash ball, with Zelda and Sheik you can use one, the other, or both

Actually you can change into ZSS by using her taunt.

 

[N3ON]

Because Ike is more popular than Marth in both the East and West. Ike's movepool still has tons of potential, and no one is really too excited about Chrom getting into Smash especially if he's to replace Ike.

Popularity is not nearly the only factor, it's not even the most important factor. Regardless, Marth's popularity is much larger than Lucina's. Plus, you seem concerned that Chrom would cause backlash if he replaced Ike (which ofc is true), but seem to think that everybody would be fine with Marth getting replaced by Lucina, which is far from true. Trust me, if Marth was to be replaced, the negative feedback would be several times that of Roy's. Also, unlike Roy, Marth's removal would be totally unjustified (at this point).

Marth isn't popular in the West outside of Smash.

The same could be said for Ike. His games weren't exactly huge hits in the West either.

Shadow Dragon was an abysmal game and a failure. The other 3 haven't made it to the West yet. Also, you say 4 games, but really, it's been 2, and 2 remakes, plus a DLC cameo in Awakening. Remakes don't count as new games in my book. By those numbers, Ike has had as many games as Marth, and is more popular. The only upperhands that Marth has over him are his Melee appearance, and being the Original Lord.

Shadow Dragon sold better than either of Ike's games and received pretty much the same scores, by that logic all three game would be failures.

And normally I would agree that remakes don't mean much, but for a series like Fire Emblem, with constantly changing protagonists, when a character does make a reappearance it does definitely help with their importance in the series and the chances for Smash. Let alone two remakes.

Also, those upperhands Marth has are pretty important. But I'm not really trying to debate Marth vs. Ike, as they'll most likely both be returning, and I don't disagree they are both important and popular. It's Lucina replacing Marth that I'm arguing against. One role as a shared central protagonist does not justify replacing the face of the series.

The majority of Smash players don't even know who Marth is and haven't bothered to play his games. Hell, the majority of FE fans haven't played his games barring Shadow Dragon, which most consider the worst in the series (myself included).

Do you think this only applies to Marth? This applies to pretty much every FE character in the West, including Ike and soon to be including Chrom and Lucina.

Plus Sacred Stones is just as much thought to be the worst in the series. Not that it matters for Smash though.

I don't see how most Smash players would be bothered to see Marth replaced by an identical clone of him from a more recent game with a similar appearance. I mean, the only things that really change are the sword, the gender, the voice and the name.

You underestimate how fickle and prone to overreaction Smash players are when it comes to character removal. Any veteran's omission will cause some backlash. Especially one as established and popular-in-Smash as Marth is, even if his moveset remains.

I think it depends on the East really. Because as far as the West stands, Marth's replacement is irrelevant. They're the ones who grew up with the series, we're all still relatively new to the series in comparison, and our iconic figure for the series is actually Ike. I wouldn't say the chances are Non-existant, because unlike Pikachu and Mario, Fire Emblem has a new Hero in each installment. However, Awakening caters a lot to Marth and glorifies him, so we'll see. But the possibility is still there. Mostly because it could work as a simple name and skin change, the character concept/play-style and strategy are all still intact. Not to mention, Lucina in a way sort of acts as the NEW Marth, at least that's the impression I'm getting from all the talk about Awakening. Similar to how Matthew seems to have replaced Isaac in Golden Sun.

The West's stance on Marth would not be indifferent to his exclusion, he's popular here too. Plus we have one of his games now, and no character's replacement is irrelevant to Smashers, like I said above. However, of course his importance lies mostly with the East, but I very much doubt they would respond positively to the longtime favorite Marth being replaced with a quite possibly one-time half protagonist. Hell, look how much they want Roy back.

And yes, Marth's role in FE isn't the same as Mario or Pikachu's role, but in more relatable examples, Ness wasn't replaced by Lucas (as previously said), 1st gen Pokemon Trainer was included over 4th, and Olimar won't be going anywhere in favor of one of the new captains.

Actually, answer me this. How come we can see Matthew come in and replace Isaac as the candidate for a GS rep, but Lucina can't replace Marth? I mean, outside from the fact that Marth is already IN the game. There really wouldn't be too much of a problem if the moves and mechanics stay the same from a fighting game standpoint.

Well firstly, Matthew isn't the clear cut candidate for Golden Sun, if it was to get a rep. Isaac still has much more popularity and demand, and in all likelihood will probably get in over Matthew. Secondly, there have been three GS games, with Isaac the main protagonist of one, and Matthew the main protagonist of one, as opposed to 4 (or 2) main protagonist roles compared to half of one. Plus, unlike a GS character, Marth is a unique veteran, which is a large point in his favor for returning. If Isaac had been included in Brawl, chances are he would still make it in Smash 4 over being replaced by Matthew.

Yeah, gameplay-wise, it wouldn't matter, but that's far from the only aspect that matters in Smash, especially when creating the roster is concerned.

Plus it would be a much more intelligent way to promote Awakening, as seeing Marth get replaced by someone who looks similar would raise enough questions and interest in the game to draw people to look into it. It also wouldn't be a huge spoiler, as 'that' revelation is rather minor, as it's advertised quite frequently.

Sure, there is a chance she could make it in over Chrom, but there's also a reason you don't see her suggested nearly as much, because honestly her chances aren't as good as his. Also, she might be advertised now in Japan as the game has being out several months, but in the pre-release, Chrom was getting the vast majority of the marketing attention. It will likely be the same when the game releases outside Japan as well.

Again, I like Lucina, I'd prefer her to Chrom, and her appearing in addition to Marth, while pretty unlikely (and fairly pointless), could technically happen. Her replacing him however, won't be happening, you can quote me on it. An alternate costume is possible I guess, but even that I think is unlikely. Marth has enough of his own outfits and looks to work with.

Anyway, some news:
http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2012/...os-4-regarding-new-characters-and-techniques/

Well look at this to then please: http://gamerant.com/returning-characters-super-smash-bros-4-riley-158163/ .

I've not seen this image been posted around a lot, and don't know if it's fake or not- but appearantly it's 'official'. And it has Marth.

What is it, months-old news day?

But yeah Diddy, while drawn by an official source, I don't think it's technically "official", though all those characters were pretty much shoo-ins anyway. Even Marth.

 

[3Bismyname]

Well look at this to then please: http://gamerant.com/returning-charac...-riley-158163/ . I've not seen this image been posted around a lot, and don't know if it's fake or not- but appearantly it's 'official'. And it has Marth.

ok did anyone really think any of those characters weren't retuning? not one person on there has a reason to not make it back.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Don't forget, Marth also has two official titles since Awakening; Hero King and Star Lord.

 

[Reyson]

It's the latter. Melee was released during the 2nd Pokemon gen, whereas Mewtwo was already popular from everything he appeared in in the 1st gen, including the 1st anime movie he starred in. Anyone who says it's the former is lying to themselves.

I hate when he and Roy are lumped together, especially when Mewtwo wasn't even a gameplay clone of someone whereas Roy was.

The reason I lumped them together is because both characters got a lot of popularity because they were in Melee and are often at the top of characters that players want to see in SSB4 and I don't get why. I hope they don't reinforce this by adding them again because that'll just mean that we'll never see a character scrapped again and the amount of actual newcomers will be lower because of it. I'd rather see more unique characters than having the same cast every time with more or less the same moveset.

 

[jfever64]

i think a final fantasy character would be an interesting addition. does anybody else agree?? i dont know how much of a stretch that would be though. specifically i would want zidane tribal from FF9, but realistically it would be cloud from FF7. I would enjoy either though

 

[Deleted member]

The same could be said for Ike. His games weren't exactly huge hits in the West either.

Shadow Dragon sold better than either of Ike's games and received pretty much the same scores, by that logic all three game would be failures.

The West's stance on Marth would not be indifferent to his exclusion, he's popular here too. Plus we have one of his games now, and no character's replacement is irrelevant to Smashers, like I said above. However, of course his importance lies mostly with the East, but I very much doubt they would respond positively to the longtime favorite Marth being replaced with a quite possibly one-time half protagonist. Hell, look how much they want Roy back.

I feel that when discussing Fire Emblem, it's important to compare sales in the West and East differently.

Shadow Dragon: 250,000 in NA
PoR: 290,000 in NA
RD: 250,000 in NA

Shadow Dragon outsold them both in Japan at 270,000. While PoR and RD sold 160,000 and 170,000 respectively in Japan. Of course, Marth's popularity in Japan can attribute to the large number of sales. As far as the Western fanbase stands SD is the worst in the series, and a poor remake over all. SS is not the worst, it in fact sold nearly 900,000 copies worldwide with 420,000 in NA, and 300,000 in Japan, more than SD on all fronts, and it is very well liked among the fans. SS is simply the easiest in the series.

The best selling FE game over all, is FE7 the GBA one, it sold 970,000 worldwide, and it's the best selling FE game in the West at nearly 500,000 in NA. It is also one of the most reputable in the series here in the West. Not too well liked in Japan for some reason, both critically and in sales (290,000).

The best selling FE game in Japan is currently Awakening with nearly 500,0000 copies sold in Japan.


The point I'm trying to make is that, although not as huge a seller in NA as FE7, Ike's games still separate him as one of the most iconic lords in the west. Both still sold more than SD (Marth's only game in the West).

Basically, outside of Smash, Marth is largely irrelevant among the Western Fanbase. I still argue that most Westerners would not be to bothered if he were to be theoretically replaced by Lucina.

However, I will concede and admit you're correct, given that I have already discussed this with Diddy. The main reason being Marth's importance in the East. The fact that Shadow Dragon sold so well in Japan despite how terrible it is when compared to the rest of the series only attests to how important Marth is to the Japanese fanbase. So, while most Westerners wouldn't miss him, I'm sure many Japanese fans would riot.

Sure, there is a chance she could make it in over Chrom, but there's also a reason you don't see her suggested nearly as much, because honestly her chances aren't as good as his. Also, she might be advertised now in Japan as the game has being out several months, but in the pre-release, Chrom was getting the vast majority of the marketing attention. It will likely be the same when the game releases outside Japan as well.

And well, this is where the argument stands now. Who has a better chance, Lucina or Chrom. I feel that only time will tell who it’s gonna be. Lucina is the most marketed in Japan, however this is also because Japan has a fetish for cute girls and the 'Moe.' But the West tends to be pretty keen on following Japanese trends from time to time, and we're already seeing Lucina gather a fanbase over Chrom, and the game is not even out yet. I'm sure the gap will only grow larger if Japan is to serve as any example.

Let's keep in mind that Awakening is using Emotional and Sexual appeal as large parts of it's selling points. Allowing you to marry and even have children with any unit of your choosing, through your in-game commander avatar, and even going as far as including generic set-pieces like a Hot Spring and a Beach. This sort of marketing tends to favor female characters over Male characters. While PoR and RD were more about Manly Men doing Manly things, Awakening doesn't hesitate to pander to the lonely otaku.

This simple concept may very well be the deciding point which of the two Awakening heroes makes the cut.

I mean, in the end Chrom=Ike and Lucina=Marth. It's just a matter of who gets a complementary clone character.

Of course, the links that have been previously posted, it seems most of the Roster has already been decided, and we're just arguing fickle.


Anyhow, sauce on the sales numbers I mentioned earlier:
http://www.vgchartz.com/game/25700/fire-emblem-shadow-dragon/
http://www.vgchartz.com/game/771/fire-emblem-path-of-radiance/
http://www.vgchartz.com/game/12971/fire-emblem-radiant-dawn/
http://www.vgchartz.com/game/3340/fire-emblem/
http://www.vgchartz.com/game/3341/fire-emblem-the-sacred-stones/
http://www.vgchartz.com/game/70704/fire-emblem-kakusei/

 

[Robert of Normandy]

i think a final fantasy character would be an interesting addition. does anybody else agree?? i dont know how much of a stretch that would be though. specifically i would want zidane tribal from FF9, but realistically it would be cloud from FF7. I would enjoy either though

If an FF character were added, IMO it should be from one of the NES or SNES games. Though Zidane does kinda make since, since FF9 was kinda intended to be an homage to those days.

Personally though, if we got a Square rep I kinda wish it would be Crono. Though someone from FF is far more likely.

 

[Deleted member]

If an FF character were added, IMO it should be from one of the NES or SNES games. Though Zidane does kinda make since, since FF9 was kinda intended to be an homage to those days.

Personally though, if we got a Square rep I kinda wish it would be Crono. Though someone from FF is far more likely.

i think a final fantasy character would be an interesting addition. does anybody else agree?? i dont know how much of a stretch that would be though. specifically i would want zidane tribal from FF9, but realistically it would be cloud from FF7. I would enjoy either though

Square is the LEAST likely 3rd party company to get represented, and FF stands as the lest favorable series.

We've been over this before, for Square the most likely candidates are the following in this order:


Neku (TWEWY)
Chrono (Chrono Trigger)
Sho Minamoto (TWEWY)
Geno (SMRPG)
Mallow (SMRPG)
Cecil/Kain (FF4)
Sora/Riku (Kingdom Hearts)
Everyone Else.

I may have missed a couple, but I honestly stopped caring. It's pointless to argue in favor or against Square, as we won't be seeing anyone from them make the cut. KOS-MOS, who has a "ghost of a chance" has a better chance than any of them. Oh, and any Playstation Squenix characters like Cloud and the like won't be showing their faces (thank God for that).

 

[3Bismyname]

i think a final fantasy character would be an interesting addition. does anybody else agree?? i dont know how much of a stretch that would be though. specifically i would want zidane tribal from FF9, but realistically it would be cloud from FF7. I would enjoy either though

I agree that a Final Fantasy character would be interesting and fit in fine. but realistically i don't see any Final Fantasy characters making it for multiple reasons. most important being that character like Cloud hasn't made an appearance on a Nintendo platform with the exception of Chain of Memories which barely counts as he's still not a main character and that game was the worst selling Kingdom Hearts game thus far. he'd be better suited for Playstation Allstars

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Chrono (Chrono Trigger).

It's CRONO, dammit.

And I wouldn't say Square is the least likely 3rd party company. Unless you think that, say, Activision, Arc System Works, EA, SNK, and Ubisoft have higher chances than Squeenix.

 

[Deleted member]

he'd be better suited for Playstation Allstars

THIS

Why weren't there ANY FF characters in Sony All Stars? What was Sony thinking? Not that I plan on getting that game anyway, but some of their character additions were ridiculous (TWO Coles), and they seem to have forgotten all about their roots, by leaving out Crash and Spyro and the like. But what was surprising was to not see Lightning or any other FF character such as Cloud or Sephiroth make the cut.

I wonder what was going through their heads when thinking up the roster for that game...

 

[Robert of Normandy]

THIS

Why weren't there ANY FF characters in Sony All Stars? What was Sony thinking? Not that I plan on getting that game anyway, but some of their character additions were ridiculous (TWO Coles), and they seem to have forgotten all about their roots, by leaving out Crash and Spyro and the like. But what was surprising was to not see Lightning or any other FF character such as Cloud or Sephiroth make the cut.

I wonder what was going through their heads when thinking up the roster for that game...

The Crash thing is actually more Activisions fault than Sonys. Licensing and whatnot.

 

[3Bismyname]

THIS

Why weren't there ANY FF characters in Sony All Stars? What was Sony thinking? Not that I plan on getting that game anyway, but some of their character additions were ridiculous (TWO Coles), and they seem to have forgotten all about their roots, by leaving out Crash and Spyro and the like. But what was surprising was to not see Lightning or any other FF character such as Cloud or Sephiroth make the cut.

I wonder what was going through their heads when thinking up the roster for that game...

actually Playstation Allstars is doing DLC characters. we know that they are gonna periodically release packs of two including characters and their stages mashed together. right away we know of Gravity Rush and Starhawks getting characters. but Cloud is rumored to be a future character cause his VA tweeted that he was having lunch with a few other VA and developers on Playstation Allstars

sorry i was confusing Cloud with another character rumored. but he is still rumored cause some journalist said that Superbot did approach Square about including a FF character

 

[Deleted member]

It's CRONO, dammit.

Just checked Wikipedia...

HOLY ****, you're right! All these years I assumed it was Chrono, considering the title.

And I wouldn't say Square is the least likely 3rd party company. Unless you think that, say, Activision, Arc System Works, EA, SNK, and Ubisoft have higher chances than Squeenix.

I was only mentioning the 3rd party companies that actually HAVE a chance, SquEnix, while having little chance, still has a chance.

Also,

Ark System Works

ALL OF MY MONEY!!

Noel Vermillion for SSB4.

Although, they'd have to either remove the camera feature, or blasphemize her Character by giving her underpants considering the fact that she likes to go at it commando (kinda strange for such a shy girl I must say...).


You know what I'd like to see though, a someone mod BlazBlue or Guilty Gear like they did with the MUGEN engine, and make a 2D fighter with similar mechanics and Smash Characters. Forget Super Smash Flash, ArkSys Smash Bros. is where it's at. I'd do it myself if I knew squat about programming.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I was only mentioning the 3rd party companies that actually HAVE a chance, SquEnix, while having little chance, still has a chance.

Should've made that clearer.

Spoiler

DAT ARSE.

Personally though, I'd rather somebody from SNK that ASW. But that's just me.

 

[Deleted member]

DAT ARSE.

Spoiler

You're welcome.

My thoughts exactly... Forget breasts, big or small, hell even flat, if a girl has a nice arse, that's all that counts, and that's exactly Noel's appeal.

Anyhow, why don't I HAVE this song?? I need to get on that, pronto, 90's had the best Rap/Hip-Hop.

Also,

"She looks like such a prostitute"
BlazBlue fans' unanimous reaction upon seeing Noel's new outfit for Chrono Phantasm.

Not that I care personally...

 

[jfever64]

I agree that a Final Fantasy character would be interesting and fit in fine. but realistically i don't see any Final Fantasy characters making it for multiple reasons. most important being that character like Cloud hasn't made an appearance on a Nintendo platform with the exception of Chain of Memories which barely counts as he's still not a main character and that game was the worst selling Kingdom Hearts game thus far. he'd be better suited for Playstation Allstars

im just a FF fanboy lol. and i said cloud solely on the fact that he tends to be the most recognizable out of the series.