Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[peeup]

Alright, I take back what I said earlier until I can find what I was thinking of, and I'm not going to try to find it because I was probably wrong anyway hahaha. With regards to the Namco rep...

...people have got to stop treating a Namco rep as some sort of inevitability.

*inb4beingbombardedwith"butnamcoworksiwithsakurai" *

...apparently someone disagrees.

 

[3Bismyname]

...apparently someone disagrees.

i did say generally. just like with politics, something may make more sense, but there's always are those who disagree.

 

[Opossum]

I honestly do think people overestimate Namco's chance at a character, especially considering Sakurai is still in charge. And he's also the one who wants very few third parties...

 

[peeup]

Word, word. So aside from Pac-Man, what other viable Namco reps are there? All I can think of is Heihachi or Yoshimitsu, my knowledge of Namco is basically squat outside of SC and Tekken.

 

[3Bismyname]

Word, word. So aside from Pac-Man, what other viable Namco reps are there? All I can think of is Heihachi or Yoshimitsu, my knowledge of Namco is basically squat outside of SC and Tekken.

Klonoa, Digimon, the Tales of Series, they do a lot of anime games, Katamari, Dig Dug, . Hack, Xenosaga, and i think that's all the series worth mentioning.

of those Tekken, Pac-Man, and the Tales of series are the most popular choices i believe. Or at least the ones with the most support

 

[Deleted member]

At the moment, the only Namco rep that I see with any shot of getting in is Pac-Man and that is only because of his massive iconicness. But that's really all Pac-Man has going for him at the moment.

 

[3Bismyname]

which in the end i think is more than enough. I'd rather have a character who deserves to be on the roster than some random 3rd party few people know or care about just cause of a stupid argument like "well he's more interesting."

 

[Reyson]

which in the end i think is more than enough. I'd rather have a character who deserves to be on the roster than some random 3rd party few people know or care about just cause of a stupid argument like "well he's more interesting."

I just can't get passed how incredibly creepy 3D Pac-man looks, those dead eyes and horrifying smile.

 

[3Bismyname]

I just can't get passed how incredibly creepy 3D Pac-man looks, those dead eyes and horrifying smile.

that's more what they did to him in Street Fighter x Tekken. he is beyond creepy in that. i think he looks so friendly in Pac-Man party though

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I see multiple Namco possibilities. Save Tales Of and Tekken, since Namco made it clear they won't ask for them to be put in.(though it could still happen)

Still have Soul Calibur, Digimon, Klonoa, and Pac-Man. SC is the only one that doesn't fit as easily.

 

[8-peacock-8]

I see multiple Namco possibilities. Save Tales Of and Tekken, since Namco made it clear they won't ask for them to be put in.(though it could still happen)

Still have Soul Calibur, Digimon, Klonoa, and Pac-Man. SC is the only one that doesn't fit as easily.

Forgot Dig Dug

 

[N3ON]

Forgot Dig Dug

Don't get your hopes up for Dig Dug. If Sakurai wanted a prominently retro Namco character, he would go with Pac-Man.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Dig Dug's redesign was not even close to popular either, so keep that in mind. The Pac-Man World games clearly sold, since there was more than one version. The remake of Dig Dug? Not even close. So... popularity-wise, Pac-Man wins.

And I did forget him, and probably a lot of others. I rarely played that game. XD

 

[3Bismyname]

I see multiple Namco possibilities. Save Tales Of and Tekken, since Namco made it clear they won't ask for them to be put in.(though it could still happen)

Still have Soul Calibur, Digimon, Klonoa, and Pac-Man. SC is the only one that doesn't fit as easily.

yeah those are like the top 6 but SC has only been losing popularity since the 3rd game and so has Digimon just in general. Klonoa, while still quite good, just never quite hit that mainstream appeal at least here in the West. then there's the whole Tekken not really being huge on Nintendo platforms although recently they've been changing that. Tales of series is another one of those great games series that isn't as big as it should be. Pac-Man meanwhile has been also just been known more as an icon as opposed to a full-fledged game series as of late but Namco is trying to bring him back with Pac-Man Party, Pac-Man Battle Royale, and all the re-releases on new consoles and the new cartoon he's getting on Disney. Namco is well aware of how much of an icon he is and they are trying to bring him back and maybe Smash can help reintroduce him to a younger audience.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Don't get your hopes up for Dig Dug. If Sakurai wanted a prominently retro Namco character, he would go with Pac-Man.

Dig Dug's redesign was not even close to popular either, so keep that in mind. The Pac-Man World games clearly sold, since there was more than one version. The remake of Dig Dug? Not even close. So... popularity-wise, Pac-Man wins.

And I did forget him, and probably a lot of others. I rarely played that game. XD

I was joking about Dig Dug. lol

yeah those are like the top 6 but SC has only been losing popularity since the 3rd game and so has Digimon just in general. Klonoa, while still quite good, just never quite hit that mainstream appeal at least here in the West. then there's the whole Tekken not really being huge on Nintendo platforms although recently they've been changing that. Tales of series is another one of those great games series that isn't as big as it should be. Pac-Man meanwhile has been also just been known more as an icon as opposed to a full-fledged game series as of late but Namco is trying to bring him back with Pac-Man Party, Pac-Man Battle Royale, and all the re-releases on new consoles and the new cartoon he's getting on Disney. Namco is well aware of how much of an icon he is and they are trying to bring him back and maybe Smash can help reintroduce him to a younger audience.

Yes.

 

[peeup]

I think Augumon squaring off against Pikachu would be pretty sick.

 

[3Bismyname]

I think Augumon squaring off against Pikachu would be pretty sick.

I wholeheartedly agree. but probably never gonna happen

 

[Deleted member]

which in the end i think is more than enough. I'd rather have a character who deserves to be on the roster than some random 3rd party few people know or care about just cause of a stupid argument like "well he's more interesting."

Granted, Pac-Man is a better Namco choice than anyone else, but I don't think he has enough going for him get in. He's mostly wanted but not expected, there's no sign of interest from Namco, I don't see Sakurai wanting Pac-Man in, and third-party spots for newcomers are going to be very, very limited given how high of an expectations he has for them.

It is likely that we will only get one new third-party character in the game because of the last reason. If we get a new third-party character, Sakurai will add nothing but the very best. It's not that Pac-Man is a bad choice (although I do find him to be bland), it's that I don't see Sakurai adding him in without lowering his expectations (and there is no way he is going to lower his expectations for third-parties all things considered).

 

[Diddy Kong]

I am betting on mostly the same thing too. I think Ike will have a Krom alternate costume (with Ike likely being in his FE10 incarnation to accomodate this), while Marth will have a Lucina alternate costume. Marth and Roy will mostly likely be in their FE13 re-designs.

I still say Chrom is much likelier than Roy at least. Despite being well known, Roy is still from a game that never saw the light in the West. His Melee appearance was a failed promotion for FE6, which originally was to be the first game to be released internationally (but that plan got scrapped cause of the game's difficulty, hence why FE7 is so much easier).

Keeping that in mind, Chrom and Lucina's support will probably sky rocket when Awakening gets released in the US and EU. And based on what the Japanese say, Awakening is probably the best Fire Emblem title since a long time. And it'll probably be well received over here as well, as the Japanese really love their Fire Emblem badly (with all rights).

Personally, I wouldn't even say Ike is as guranteed to return as people think he is. Sakurai could easily go lazy-mode and copypasta Ike's moveset on Chrom and call it a day. While I don't think or want it to happen, it could.

But anyway, Fire Emblem is a INTERNATIONAL series now, so why would Roy even be an option? And even crazier to me seems the idea Marth and Roy will look like their FE13 counterparts, but neither Chrom or Lucina are anywhere to be found. I really think either one of them, or maybe even both, will get playable. Even if they are to be 3DS-version exclusives.

 

[N3ON]

I still say Chrom is much likelier than Roy at least. Despite being well known, Roy is still from a game that never saw the light in the West. His Melee appearance was a failed promotion for FE6, which originally was to be the first game to be released internationally (but that plan got scrapped cause of the game's difficulty, hence why FE7 is so much easier).

If Roy was to be put in Melee for international promotion of his game, why was he originally not going to be included in the Western versions?

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I still say Chrom is much likelier than Roy at least. Despite being well known, Roy is still from a game that never saw the light in the West. His Melee appearance was a failed promotion for FE6, which originally was to be the first game to be released internationally (but that plan got scrapped cause of the game's difficulty, hence why FE7 is so much easier).

[citaiton needed]

But anyway, Fire Emblem is a INTERNATIONAL series now, so why would Roy even be an option? And even crazier to me seems the idea Marth and Roy will look like their FE13 counterparts, but neither Chrom or Lucina are anywhere to be found. I really think either one of them, or maybe even both, will get playable. Even if they are to be 3DS-version exclusives.

Roy could come back because he's already familiar to Smash players, and he IS unique-name me another Lord that uses a flame sword.

 

[peeup]

FE is just not big enough a series to warrant a third rep. But even if it was, we do not need another swordsman. Even if they play different from Ike/Marth, we already have a quick and a strong. What we need is a mage/ranged rep, like Micaiah (sp?). Even if Roy had potential for a playstile vastly different from Marth's and even Ike's, he shouldn't come back. And I don't know anything about Chrom, but from what google tells me, he's another swordsman. If he has potential to be similar to Ike (slow+strong) then I could see him being Ike's replacement. If not, he really just doesn't have a place in a game with so many swordsmen and so few mage types.

 

[N3ON]

FE is just not big enough a series to warrant a third rep. But even if it was, we do not need another swordsman. Even if they play different from Ike/Marth, we already have a quick and a strong. What we need is a mage/ranged rep, like Micaiah (sp?). Even if Roy had potential for a playstile vastly different from Marth's and even Ike's, he shouldn't come back. And I don't know anything about Chrom, but from what google tells me, he's another swordsman. If he has potential to be similar to Ike (slow+strong) then I could see him being Ike's replacement. If not, he really just doesn't have a place in a game with so many swordsmen and so few mage types.

I'd agree that it'd be nice to see a FE character that isn't a sword wielder (I'd love Micaiah), but if three sword-using FE characters were planned for Brawl, then having at least 3 FE characters in SSB4 is a pretty safe bet, especially since Roy is one of the most requested characters in Japan.

Plus in Japan FE is a big enough series to warrant a third rep, and Japanese popularity counts for alot, especially considering Sakurai might pick some characters popular only in the West this time around like Little Mac and Ridley, so he'd balance it out with characters who have primarily Japan-based-popularity.

 

[Diddy Kong]

If Roy was to be put in Melee for international promotion of his game, why was he originally not going to be included in the Western versions?

Maybe cause Fire Emblem itself wasn't originally going to be released internationally? But after the succes of Marth and Roy in Melee?

And Fire Emblem IS a series big enough to get at least 3 characters. Sure there are series that deserve a newcomer much more, like Donkey Kong. But Fire Emblem is a still growing franchise, and has 13 games out already. It's easily one of Nintendo's bigger RPG series, and especially one of the most important strategy games. So yeah, it deserves some more regonision imo.

Also, Sakurai is a FE fan. He probably has already beaten Awakening by now.

 

[N3ON]

Well, I'll be. Looks like Diddy might have been right. (though I can't find anything about it being canceled, just that at one point FE6 was planned for NA - well after Melee though).

And another.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I research my ****, of coarse I am right.

Just play the games yourself. FE6 Normal difficulty is about as hard, or even harder than FE7 Hard Mode. And yes, even Hector Hard Mode.

 

[N3ON]

I research my ****, of coarse I am right.

Didn't give any links though.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I'm lazy. Though, am willing to take the blame.

Also, I kinda liked the idea of having Lucina as an alternative for Marth, and Chrom as an alternative for Ike. But only if they take character alternations more seriously this time around. I wouldn't be opposed to having about 2 or 3 alternatives for just about any character in the game. And not just appearance-wise. But yeah, that probably won't happen so I'll just keep the opinion that I think that at least Chrom should totally be playable.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

FE is just not big enough a series to warrant a third rep.

It already has one in Ike. That's the third character added.

But even if it was, we do not need another swordsman. Even if they play different from Ike/Marth, we already have a quick and a strong. What we need is a mage/ranged rep, like Micaiah (sp?). Even if Roy had potential for a playstile vastly different from Marth's and even Ike's, he shouldn't come back. And I don't know anything about Chrom, but from what google tells me, he's another swordsman. If he has potential to be similar to Ike (slow+strong) then I could see him being Ike's replacement. If not, he really just doesn't have a place in a game with so many swordsmen and so few mage types.

Agreed, though. Also, only Zelda is kind of a Mage. She's still a Monk with a few projectile right now. We have no real Mages, just "they kind of have some magic" currently. Only her four specials, maybe her Final Smash and her Air Up A really is some kind of magic. The rest are about as pure magic as Mario's Forward Smash.(which is basically a Ki Punch)

 

[Smooth Criminal]

ffs it's just a flaming punch, not a damned ki blast.

(Oh I'm sorry, a flaming palm strike.)

Smooth Criminal

 

[Diddy Kong]

ffs it's just a flaming punch, not a damned ki blast.

(Oh I'm sorry, a flaming palm strike.)

Smooth Criminal

Why so negative? Why not say it's the Fire Brand move from the first Mario & Luigi. Speaking of, Luigi totally should've had Thunder Hand. But Smash already has Luigi with the green fire theme, so that'll never happen.

 

[SmashChu]

Don't get your hopes up for Dig Dug. If Sakurai wanted a prominently retro Namco character, he would go with Pac-Man.

Truth be told, any Namco rep is unlikely.

I still say Chrom is much likelier than Roy at least. Despite being well known, Roy is still from a game that never saw the light in the West. His Melee appearance was a failed promotion for FE6, which originally was to be the first game to be released internationally (but that plan got scrapped cause of the game's difficulty, hence why FE7 is so much easier).

Keeping that in mind, Chrom and Lucina's support will probably sky rocket when Awakening gets released in the US and EU. And based on what the Japanese say, Awakening is probably the best Fire Emblem title since a long time. And it'll probably be well received over here as well, as the Japanese really love their Fire Emblem badly (with all rights).

Personally, I wouldn't even say Ike is as guranteed to return as people think he is. Sakurai could easily go lazy-mode and copypasta Ike's moveset on Chrom and call it a day. While I don't think or want it to happen, it could.

But anyway, Fire Emblem is a INTERNATIONAL series now, so why would Roy even be an option? And even crazier to me seems the idea Marth and Roy will look like their FE13 counterparts, but neither Chrom or Lucina are anywhere to be found. I really think either one of them, or maybe even both, will get playable. Even if they are to be 3DS-version exclusives.

What you forget is that Melee made Roy recognizable. Your probably too young to remember, but Roy was probably one of the most popular characters in Melee.

Also, people on the forums always start taking about characters after a new game comes out. It doesn't mean anything.

 

[ChronoBound]

Roy was the Ike of Melee (meaning he was one of the most popular characters among casual players). Heck, in Japan, he is still one of the Top 5 most popular fighters in the Smash Bros. series.

I have a feeling that if Sakurai does decide to do character DLC, that we will even see the likes of Dr. Mario and Pichu brought back. I definitely think there is going to be DLC for Smash 4, though I am uncertain whether there will be any for playable characters.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Mario did not have a "fire brand" move from Mario & Luigi. It was introduced in Melee, before that game existed. Melee came out first.

And yes, it counts as a Ki type move. Ki Blasts are not limited to a pure energy ability. They can be modified into literal elements, since they're both kinds of energy.

And a Flaming Punch is a punch with Ki Energy as well. I'm using the DnD Monk for this. And they have energy punches just like Mario's Forward Smash and the Falcon Punch. It's the exact same thing overall. Only difference is what kind of energy being used, nothing more. That's what a good amount of Zelda's moves are, ki attacks. While they are clearly magical in nature, she's not playing like an actual mage. How many is there, about 5/6 spells she can do? Air Up A, B, Forward B, Down B, Up B? Did I miss anything else that's pretty much not some kind of physical attack with energy at the end?

 

[Smooth Criminal]

This isn't D&D, bro.

And, arguably, you could say it was derived from the "fiery" attacks in Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars. That came wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy before Melee.

Smooth Criminal

 

[3Bismyname]

Granted, Pac-Man is a better Namco choice than anyone else, but I don't think he has enough going for him get in. He's mostly wanted but not expected, there's no sign of interest from Namco, I don't see Sakurai wanting Pac-Man in, and third-party spots for newcomers are going to be very, very limited given how high of an expectations he has for them.

It is likely that we will only get one new third-party character in the game because of the last reason. If we get a new third-party character, Sakurai will add nothing but the very best. It's not that Pac-Man is a bad choice (although I do find him to be bland), it's that I don't see Sakurai adding him in without lowering his expectations (and there is no way he is going to lower his expectations for third-parties all things considered).

personally i say no third parties unless they are from a very well established and recognizable franchise.

How is adding Pac-Man lowering Sakurais expectations? all he's said is that he wants to narrow it down so as not to add characters all "willy nilly." it's not like he said "I only want to add third party characters who are martial artists, or gun toting robots." just that he'll be very selective of the newcomers. Sakurai is a proven nostalgia fan so there's that, Pac-Man is a highly recognized mascot, and he's starting to make a comeback so how exactly is Pac-Man a lowered expectation.

 

[FlareHabanero]

While the subject of Namco characters is back here yet again, let's presume we do indeed get a Tales or Tekken character. Both series have a lot of characters, but in my opinion the characters in question need to be very appropriate to represent the series as a whole.

On the Tales side, I think the most appropriate would actually be Cress Albane/Cless Alvein. He's the first protagonist in the series and makes appearances in several Tales games.

On the Tekken side, Heihachi is arguably the ideal choice since he's appeared in every game, though his son Kazuya or his grandson Jin are also appropriate too since they've appeared frequently with notable importance too.

 

[Deleted member]

On the subject of Namco, I find it heavily ironic that a Namco character is being claimed to be not so likely due to "little demand", while Snake is very unlikely to have had any fan demand at all prior to his inclusion. He got in because his creator "practically begged" for him.
And also how people act as though Pac-Man being iconic is worth a crap in why he's more "likely". Being iconic isn't what got Sonic in. Being heavily requested is. Hell, if it wasn't Sonic that was the most heavily requested character for Brawl, and was say, someone like NiGHTS, who is nowhere near as iconic as Sonic, the damn jester would have been in Brawl barring any issues with Sega (who unlike Namco, would probably take issue over not using their most iconic character).

These often are the same people that cling to Mega Man. They need to wake up and smell the coffee; Mega Man's demand is not even close to pre-Brawl Sonic's, and that just barely got Sonic in. If a Namco character being up to Sakurai makes them unlikely, why does Mega Man being up to Sakurai (which Capcom has stated) not?

 

[JPW]

I still reckon Pac-Man has the best chance for a Namco rep.

But you want to talk about a Tekken Rep. I reckon Heihachi probably has the best chance too. After all he was in PASBR. So he knows how to smash it up.
I prefer Hworang cause he's my pick for Tekken. But i know he's nowhere near celebrity statues like Jin, Kazuya, Heihachi or YoshiMitsu.

Speaking of the FE. Cause it's the hot topic.

I want Marth to stay. I believe that's a given though.
ike has dropped down to no.4 on my list. He might drop further. If Ike has to get cut for Chrom i'll have to accept it. And I probably will accept it in the end.

I would love to see a Mage but i feel Miciah has missed her chance.

Speaking for Sonic.

Popularity was the big player that probably got him in, but i would say there's also more to it.

Mario and Sonic were two of the biggest rivals ever in Mascot History. It's still there today except it's in Olympic form. Sonic deserved to be in based on his rival history, and the idea of having Sonic in Smash Bros. would mean bigger bucks for Brawl. It was very big news at the time.

There's the Olympics games. So already he got a fighting chance cause it was familiar territory.

His games have done quite well on Nintendo Consoles and his games actually sell much better then they do on the other consoles or even on Iphones.

He is more part of Nintendo than you think.

He had potential for a very unique moveset. Even though it's a weak powered moveset his speed makes up for it. In the right hands he can be downright deadly.

There was more to Sonic getting in then just popularity.

 

[Deleted member]

Moveset potential means nothing (), and no, it was pretty much because Sonic was the top requested character. If it weren't for that, Sonic would not be in Brawl.
Hell, his Dojo page even REFERENCES his demand;

The one whose Smash appearance has been most desired dashes in from far away at supersonic speed.