On the subject of 3rd Parties, if you're not believing on popularity playing a major factor on getting as a 3rd rep, then what is? The expections and maybe being "lucky" because Sakurai was involved with you due some events?
It can't be claimed as a major factor when it only applies to one out of two guests.
I mean, what even is the definition of the popularity that should help the 3rd Party to get in Yuui? Should it necessarily rival Sonic's?
Yes, because it is what got Sonic in. If Sonic had not been the most requested character in general (not just 3rd Parties), Snake would have been the only guest. Then what? What possible excuse can be made for guests then?
I mean, at the end we have almost no clear idea who could be NB-rep and there's not much demand on them expect from Tekken or Tales Of. And about Pacman being suggested is just because he's just treated as likely, not really "wanted" but just passed as likely. C'mon now, who here really wants Pacman anyway?
That may be so, but Snake was not in high demand either, yet still got in because his creator wanted him in. It isn't so strange to expect the same for a co-developer.
We can't though just be excluding Megaman because he won't "ever reach the same popularity as Sonic" and Sonic was thrown in at the last minute due the busy deadline near end of the game's development, which might explain slight hesitance on his inclusion and see if the demand is very huge enough.
Not exclude him persay, but rather, understand that he isn't a lock as people claim him to be given the circumstances regarding Sonic.
Still, Sakurai hasn't completely excluded the chance for 3rd parties at the end anyway, and if he was to only include Namco-reps because "there's not much significant amount of demand for other 3rd parties", he would have just said that already before when speaking about 'em unless he's now trying to set us for a major disappointment in means of 3rd Parties (Super Smash Bros 4! With Namco Bandai's reps! ONLY!!!)
Just because it hasn't been excluded doesn't mean it's for sure going to happen again. And as long as Snake and Sonic remain it won't be "Namco Bandai reps only". Despite being veterans they are still guests and are counted as such.
Also, bear in mind that Sakurai stated there would be 2-3 guests at most in Brawl not including Snake (as in, 3-4 guests total). We only got 1; Sonic. So don't make the same mistake in hyping guests out.
We're gonna get 3rd Parties despite anything, and definitely they all won't be just "Namco-reps". Or are you saying Sakurai takes in fans's demand unseriously?
Again,
and
are unlikely to go anywhere, and they are not NB.
And really, you need to understand how insignificant this 3rd Party issue is;
Smash is a
Nintendo All-Stars game. Having guests at all is already breaking away from what Smash is about. Snake was to be the sole exception, due to Kojima "practically begging" for his inclusion in
Melee.
Sonic became a 2nd exception due to being the most requested character for Brawl, and only then, he was the last character added to the roster list about 2 years after it had been "set".
And you think that Mega Man's demand is going to help him? It didn't help him for Brawl, and that was when Inafune was still with Capcom and was very willing to have him in the game if Sakurai contacted him. And there are plenty of examples of fan demand for characters that did not get in.
In Brawl, before any new character after Snake was shown, the top requests were among Sonic, Ridley, Diddy Kong, Mega Man, Geno, Krystal, an AC Character (be it a player or Tom Nook), King Dedede and Isaac.
Only Sonic, Dedede, and Diddy of them made it. And we got plenty of characters that weren't so requested in comparison, like Olimar, Pokemon Trainer, R.O.B., Wolf, etc.
The point of that is that not ALL fan demanded characters will make it. And the edge for those more likely would be ones that are Nintendo owned, especially when newer characters are not as big of a priority this time around.
Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Mega Man has no chance. What I'm saying is that people treat him as a lock and the definite new guest for very flawed reasons.
Popularity might not be always a key but I agree with N3ON that it's the major one. If it brings us together to marvel the inclusion, then it's enough to be considered, especially if it comes to 3rd Parties.
"If it brings us together to marvel the inclusion"? Do you really think that hippie bullroar means a lick of anything to Sakurai? And really, how can anyone make any sort of judgement on whether it's major or not when it only applies to one out of two guests that are in Smash?
And about Snake's inclusion, it was just an EXCEPTION on his part. He was begged in to be playable. Exceptions aren't likely to happen for twice if they happened before, it's why they are exceptions. Otherwise should we start to think Sakurai being easily manipulated and thus use it as a reason to expect characters like Travis or Crash Bandicoot, if we get to hear "their directors" were involved with Sakurai?
Until we actually get more guests for fan demand, you cannot claim that Snake is the exception. If anything, the fact that Snake was initially planned for the game while Sonic was not shows otherwise.
But aside from that, if any other company was working on Smash 4 instead of Namco, one of it's key people was the co-developer alongside Sakurai, and they wanted to see a character of theirs in, then yes, I would expect that character would get in. It's not any sort of "manipulation" (nice use of trying to make it seem evil), but rather opportunity that can be taken. Like it isn't manipulation from the fans when they demand characters and expect Sakurai to add them just because they are "so demanded"?
I mean, just because "popularity doesn't matter"? And dear God, a Tales Of's co-developer asking, or rather, "begging" for Sakurai to include Lloyd Irving or Cless Albane in Smash. I need to get some brain bleach. (-=____=-);;;
Oh, I see what the real issue is now. Just because you DON'T WANT a Tales character in Smash, it makes it illogical to see one. -_- Stop being biased if you want me to take you seriously now. I honestly don't give a flying one about Mega Man or Tales, but it's more logical to see a Tales character getting in than not.
I think we have a good reason to say Megaman's demand can be enough to get him in Smash. He has enough things pushing for him (safe for his recent gaming outcomes with Crapcom), and he even gets some of the directors's approval in one of the interviews when speaking about
Street Fighter-reps in Smash Bros. Same for
Sakurai thinking a Capcom-rep to be in.
Saying that it is not outside the realm of possiblity for a character from Capcom to get in does not mean what you think it means. Sakurai is saying that is CAN happen; not that it WILL happen.
Also, it's already known that Capcom is fine with Mega Man in Smash outside of the Street Fighter developer (as if his approval means anything for his chances). However, they ARE NOT pushing for him. Paraphrasing what they have said, "the ball is in Sakurai's court, as it's his game, not ours". So they are waiting for Sakurai to contact them like they did in Brawl, and you saw how well THAT turned out.
I should've specified a little more, I wasn't including Mewtwo or Roy, just actual new-to-the-series newcomers. My bad. And when I said that I was including all the demographics of all regions, I wasn't just referring to Smashers, I also meant the average gamer who might not know several characters on the roster, or a casual who maybe only knows a handful of the characters. Megaman really has demand with all these groups more than any other newcomer can claim to have (again, not counting Mewtwo), especially in Japan, where at least on the sites I've checked he is definitely the most requested newcomer (though I defer to Chrono if he says K. Rool gets as many requests - though I personally haven't seen it). However, I don't have any actual source, so take this for what you will.
Except that the average casual gamer may not even play Smash Bros. enough to actually DEMAND for a character like what was done for Sonic.
Mega Man having popularity within his own fanbase for example may not apply to him being in Smash.
Except Sakurai wasn't given a choice of any Konami character like he most likely would be for Namco. If he were to have had a hypothetically neutral choice (meaning Kojima wouldn't have even contacted him personally), it is quite possible, I'd even say probable, that Simon, or Bomberman (if he counted as Konami), or someone else would've been chosen over Snake. With Namco Sakurai could very possibly choose any character he wants (in moderation ofc -- obviously he would only pick a well known, at least semi-popular choice), so it would definitely make sense if his first choice was their most popular, most iconic, and face-of-the-company character.
How would you know for sure whether or not his first choice would be Pac-Man, though? With Yoshi-to being a co-developer, he could theoretically make negotiations with him in terms of the Namco character if he even chooses to do one. Or, if Yoshi-to were to bring up the Tales character issue (or Harada with the Tekken character issue, though Yoshi-to would have more of a leg to stand on), who's to say that Sakurai won't just consider their ideas? After all, like GameFreak, Namco would have a bit more say on their characters, even if
final decision rests on Sakurai. In which case it'd be the "my way or the highway" mentality, in which either it's the character Sakurai wants or no character at all. Though he doesn't seem to be the type to pull that sort of gambit.
Sorry, again I should've specified (I was very tired and sloppy when I wrote that
), I meant popularity would be key for the majority of future 3rd parties, not current ones. In the foreseeable future, really only two 3rd-party characters strike me as possible to get in due to personal friendships or "practically begging": a Namco character other than Pac-Man, and Professor Layton (because Sakurai is good friends with Akihiro Hito), while any other third party in the future of Smash (unless Smash 5 or games after that are developed by a different third-party) would only get in due to popularity.
And Travis Touchdown, I forgot him earlier. So three. Though if Hito and Suda51 haven't asked yet, it is unlikely they'll suddenly switch.
There is no "would be" until there is actual confirmation of it happening that way, since we don't even know if we're even GETTING new guests.
