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I didn't say it wasn't competitive. But tell me this--is there more depth to Rock Paper scissors, with 9 potential moves, only three of which lead to a win for one player, or Chess, with 400 opening moves (increasing exponentially after that), each one a legitimate victory tactic.
i completely agree.....
My posts are in white.I hate you. You annoy the hell out of me.
Don't worry, the feeling is mutual.
SSBM was made to be a party game. It certainly is not a traditional fighter. But party games are games you play with people who are less than even casual video gamers. You play party games to have a good time, share silly laughs, and ultimately anyone wins.
That is not Competitive Melee by any stretch of the imagination. It doesn't have anything to do with "trying" to make it to be something else. It is what it is, a very competitive fighter with a ridiculous learning curve where the best players always win and people who have not put ridiculous amounts of time into the game can never compete.
...and what exactly would you classify Brawl as? Are you basically saying that it is not a party game because it is "serious business?"
In terms of Melee's competitive scene, no crap it is completely different, but the competitive version was USER CREATED. It was the manipulation of exploits and keying in on things other people would not have known about unless they dug into the game and explored certain things. The ONLY exception to this rule was short hop and fast fall, because anyone who has played any game with a sensitive joystick should know that you are able to adjust the height of your jump by how much pressure you place on the joystick. You can SHFF in Sunshine!
The execution and precision in GG and SF are not to be compared with Melee. They're completely different, there are no quartercircles or semicircles or buffering moves with other moves... likewise GG and SF don't require the same kind of technical prowess as the **** that M2K does to show off between stocks, perfect moonwalk into a perfectly timed FF into a jump to another FF to a perfect waveland, so on and so forth.
They're different, one can argue that it's harder to perfect SF and GG "tech prowess" but as far as I know there aren't too many people who have perfected Smash's tech skill. Either Smash players suck or being perfect at it is hard.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong but aren't most SF and GG combos just waiting for your opening and performing a set, specific, unchanging button input?
By contrast, Darkrain combos to death from a hit more consistently than any other player I've seen. These combos are always different, they start with the first hit, but then after that he has to be creative, choose the right moves, follow the opponent's DI, and ultimately be perfect with timing and execution. These are skills untested in GG and SF...
There is no argument for why they are better or more competitive fighters, they're just traditional. They're different.
I brought this up because we are talking competitive aspects of the game. I brought up those two games as a comparison as they are both competitive heavy games. The thing is though, regardless of how you pull off the techs or not, Melee MAY be competitive, but once again, it had to be USER CREATED. Street Fighter and Guilty Gear do not necessarily have their skills as hidden as Melee did. It can be ARGUED that they did, but the games are both arcade fighters, where all the focus was placed in constructing the metagame of the FIGHTING part. Since Smash is a party game, the fighting elements that make it competitive were most likely hidden seeing as how a party game is not to be taken as seriously as an actual arcade fighter. The game is too busy being distracted by other elements that give it a party feel, and as such, not too much was placed on making the actual metagame more technical. I believe this is why Brawl is in the condition that it is.
Melee is the exception because users created the competitive scene. Can Brawl have one? With all the stuff removed, I sincerely doubt it due to the common disinterest many around here seem to have in towards making it better.
The drive to win the match no longer matters. You can try and try to get really good at Brawl but ultimately there is no learning curve and anyone can win by getting lucky. That, to me, is more frustrating than losing to someone who is actually way better than I am.
I have no response here because I agree.
His vision is ignorant in my opinion.
Who gives a crap what you think about his opinion? He didn't make this game for you, he made this game for himself which just so happens to cater to the casual scene. That is what I don't understand. Your opinion on what Sakurai personally does is completely pointless. He had a vision, and he carried out his vision. You should have saw it coming because he practically told you how it was going to go down.
I'm not speaking for everyone here, but SSBM is a party game outside of the competitive scene. Before I knew about the scene, I used to win a lot and lose a lot, and either way I would laugh and have a good time. That wasn't enough for Sakurai, though.
He felt the need to betray my entire community. I don't think that Nintendo nor Brawl will sell any better because the game is not competitive. I don't see any good coming from it. There's no good reason.
"Wow. Melodrama at it's ugliest."
Wow. Melodrama at its ugliest. Who are you?? What makes you think you're some kind of messenger of truth, half your message is "you won't change anyone's mind," and the other half is talking about the bitter pill of truth? What a hideous contradiction.
The pill thing was an expression. Also, I am the messenger of truth.
Basically, he doesn't want to reward people for practicing and learning the game. He made it shallow and boring. And no, there is a third option. Play Brawl for fun, play Melee to compete. stfu, "wallow in despair." Who are you?? You are the worst.
Exactly.
Also, if there was a third option, then WHY are you here debating with me over Brawl's competitive nature if the option is so simple to acheive? "What a hideous contradiction."
Very mature there Mookierah. Why stop at lieing when you can just as easily call me a "meanie doo doo head" and have the same impact?
So, you admit that you basically like Brawl better because you were discouraged by being constantly beaten in Melee?
I think he is. I think a lot of Brawl guys will admit that too. They don't have a problem with it. I guess Sakurai noticed that.
Because you aren't a meanie doo doo head. Instead you are a bullheaded, ignorant, anti-competitive asshat that likes to present strawman arguments and blanket statements as factual evidence to support your claims, and in general, are a thorn to the communities side because you have yet to acknowledge much of anything from people that debate with you. That's why I specifically told people not to, cause if they did it would only make the thread go downhill fast.
That's easier said than done though. All the new players will want to get things going with Brawl. It will be very hard to curb that and still use Melee as the competitive standard. It's not impossible, but it's not going to be easy either.
Wouldn't you be pissed at Steven Spielberg if Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull turned out to be a piece of ****? You wouldn't be thankful that the movie was made, you'd be pissed that it had so much potential and failed miserably to meet your expectations built up from the first three great films.
Okay Just A few Requests
YOUR school does determine whether or not people still play Halo 3 or not. Also, the shooter genre is SO heavily saturated right now. Gears, Resistance, Halo, Call of Duty, Ghost Recon, Rainbow Six, Counter-Strike, Unreal Tournament, Team Fortress, ect, ect, ect.
True, you got me there. But to me Brawl doesn't suck.
hahahaha
I refuse to listen to someone who I can't see as a valid person to give off reasoning.
Did you not read the interview? Have you not been paying attention this entire time? Here is the link in case you somehow missed it
This is truth.
That would have been awesome.
I would say that had a lot to do with the fact that Halo 3 wasn't as deep and as good as COD4. The problem with smash is that this is the only game series like it, and thusly has no competition. If Capcom released a smash-like game featuring all of the memorable Capcom characters with none of the randomized nonsense of Brawl you can bet your *** that a lot of people would switch over.
It's their game, but that doesn't make it a good decision. We are mad because Sakurai made a mistake, and a very big one at that. IF he REALLY was so big into people playing it how they want to, he could have easily left in, or made similar options to the things he took out of melee, and given the PLAYERS the option to decide to use them or not. By dumbing it down and simplifying the game so much, it really doesn't help anyone, as it just hurts people who would like to play the game competitively.
That's my favorite part of Melee. That's exactly why I don't understand Sakurai's vision, don't respect it, and am upset by it.
We wouldn't even have to bother with trying to keep melee as the main competitive smash game if that were to happen.
Your opinion, not mine buddy.
If they say he's wrong, then yeah, he's wrong. If he's not making the game for the fans, who is he making it for, then? Himself?
Brawl is fun right now. I'll give it that. But there's no reason why it can't be fun and competitive at the same time.
"Glitches," "Tricks," whatever you want to call them that made the game more than what it was. It helped turn it into a deep fighting game. Combos in street fighter were not intended either. Instead of pulling a Sakurai, however, they knew that they were on to something, and kept going with it. Sakurai had come across a great thing, and instead, dismisses it. It's a shame, really.
That just about sums it up.
And why are glitches bad? Why do we have to be bound by the creator's intent? It's all BS. If there weren't those "glitches" in melee, there wouldn't be much of a smash scene, as it would just be a party game that will on occasion have tournaments at anime conventions.
