NES n00b
Smash Master
...just because you can compete in it, doesn't mean it is that great for competition.
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Sakurai does not want Smash to be a competitive franchise
- Thread starter Gimpyfish62
- Start date
metaXzero
Smash Champion
The gap will be there no matter what. And it is if he dumbed the game down for no GOOD reason. Smash is already easy to get into.
See RDK.
Black Mantis
Smash Hero
The whole Melee vs. Brawl debate I could really care less. I look at it this way, my philosophy is the way that I play and its the reason behind my drive to be good. My philosophy is much more than a competitive thing and it surpasses the casual gamer crap as well. But anyway, MLG Brawl is going to be amazing!
But wouldn't you want to play in the deeper, harder to master, more rewarding, more SUITED for competition game? I just would like a brawl fanboy to give me one good reason why brawl's gameplay is better.
Black Mantis
Smash Hero
I play both good. Actually my Dr.Mario and Fox are sick in Melee. But for now I'm focused in Brawl.
well I can't speak for EVERY brawl fanboy but me personally I have a philosophy. if you want to see this philosophy then check this out
manliness forever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwEHUPkJ7lE
That is most certainly NOT a balance between competitive and casual play. That guy is not competitive. No edge hogging? lol. No spamming? lol No marth? lol He's johning. That's the prime example of a brawl fanboy/smash noob.
unwelc0med
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2008
- Messages
- 419
these ****ed melee purists, they didn't want a new game at all. they wanted melee 2.0
and you didn't get it, so deal with it.
metaXzero
Smash Champion
Its ignorant statements like these that lead to Melee vs. Brawl crap. *sigh*
Smooth Criminal
Da Cheef
No. We wanted a game that didn't have tripping and a lack of hitstun.
Shut the hell up.
Smooth Criminal
unwelc0med
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2008
- Messages
- 419
woah you're cool.
Smooth Criminal
Da Cheef
No, it's just people like you and Purple Mantis are ****ing moronic. Ya'll just had to bump this god**** thread with your uninformed bull****.
Smooth Criminal
Black Mantis
Smash Hero
Like I said I don't care anymore. Playing like a man is the most important thing in the world.
Reproted. Stop acting like an internet tough guy.
Zylar
Smash Ace
The principle disagreement that I see is the people's philosophy with games.
What is the purpose of a game? To win, or to have fun?
Honestly, I believe that is would be more Christian to have fun. Not to say being competative is evil or you'll be doomed.
(The "manly" way of playing has attempted to have fun competatively. Very hard if the opponent isn't playing "manly" as well. And it disregards the fun that a purely competative player has. Basically it's only a way of trying to make both sides happy.)
The game itself is subjective to the gamer, meaning the gamer decides how the game will be to him. If the game feels more deep, competative gamers will eat it up, and casual gamers will hate them for making it competative. If the game feels more shallow, casual gamers will have as much fun as they can, and competative gamers will overlook it, or not ejoy the simplicity, nor gain a sense of satisfation.
What makes the Super Smash Brothers series interesting is that it is an almost "forced" combination of the two. SSB is a fighting game series. How can competition EVER be avoided. The creator makes it casual, the competative gamer will make it competative regardless.
Take note that the primary intention of making these games are to make money. Whatever that is deemed money making will be sought after. Which do you think is a larger communitiy, the competative scene or the casual players? Obviously other deep games were made soely for the competative scene, but only if it was deemed profitable. I don't look down on the makers of games, or do I think that all of them are greedy and whatnot. I'm saying that the goal is money.
In general, people who don't know anything about something don't tend to go deep in it. Their is a risk or ruining the fun of a hobby if you study it, so they don't dive deeper because they want their simple pleasures. Those that do dive deeper gain their pleasures because they are deeply into it. They don't want to run the risk of losing what they've earned, so they have to constantly keep up their game.
This is not to say competative gamers don't play for fun sometimes, or that casual gamers never try to get better. It is human nature to be competative, however it is also natual that some don't want to be competative because their energy is being used elsewhere. The same is with competative and casual gamers.
In my opinion people should do what they're doing right now : Casual players play with other casual players, competative players compete against other competative players. Just don't play against the other type. However, I'm sure that even those games were meant to be cometative have many people playing it casualy. With that in mind, I think that Sakurai made a bad move in entering this buiness altogether. Fighting/Wars/Skirmishes = Competative. No one who ever lost a war went over to the enemy and said that was fun, good job, great laugh, lets do that again. Even fake fighting will and always will be competative, even though it will have casual players. So in trying to make fighting (Although fake) purely casual and doing everything in his power to destroy competative play, he is contradicting himself. His actions clearly shows him trying to break down the competative community, I don't care what he said about "Don't get me wrong, the competative scene is very interesting" or W/E. His actions are SCREAMING his intent, he just so happened to make his intent public and wanted to win both sides. So what is the one thing that would make Sakurai happy? A world without competative players, so that he can make people feel good, and gain money doing so.
The way that sakurai expects people to be happy is IMO insane. Find me a person who had fun from being KO because of tripping and I'll show you someone insane as well. Why? Because people have fun in a fightng game when something AWSOME happends. Not tripping. Maybe suicides (Lol Jigglypuff's Shield Break), for sure long sudden deaths, for sure a hard AT, or combo, for sure the priceless look in the face of the character (not the player) when hit by a final smash attack, and for sure when something unpredicted by both players suddenly occurs that affects both of them(EX : Not on sudden death when a bomb falls out of nowhere into an attack KOing both players. LOLZ). Also IT IS NOT FUN TO LOSE BUT FUN TO PLAY AN AWESOME GAME WITH SOMEONE EVEN WHEN YOU LOSE, and THAT counters the bitterness of losing.
Because Meele wasn't effectively made to be casual, competative players will tend to like it's playstyle more. The competative scene will still be in Brawl, for it is a FIGHTING game. As to what is BETTER, I say neither despite what I've said. Meele is different than Brawl. (And that is probably why those who support Meele dislike Brawl so much.) If there was truely Meele V.02 everyone, even the Brawlers would focus on it. If there was a Brawl V.02 (Or worse in the sense of more casual) very few Meelers would stick with it, and brawlers would stick with it more likely just because they don't mind just as the didn't mind with brawl.
All in all.
Competative and Casual are just different.
Sakurai wants fun more than anything. (And money)
Fighting = Competition.
Sakurai wants to destroy competative play.
Sakurai's "fun" is insane and distorted.
Fun = AWSOMENESS (Regardless of win or lose)
Lose = Unhappy (Regardless of awsomeness, although the unhappiness may be extremely minor)
Meele and Brawl are just different just as competative and casual.
I'd like to thank those who actually read through all of this. THANK YOU! Even if you disagree I appriciate that you've read it and I hope this adds to the forums rather than take away, even if there going to be disagreements. (WOW I've got to go to sleep, writing this took WAY too long!)
What is the purpose of a game? To win, or to have fun?
Honestly, I believe that is would be more Christian to have fun. Not to say being competative is evil or you'll be doomed.
(The "manly" way of playing has attempted to have fun competatively. Very hard if the opponent isn't playing "manly" as well. And it disregards the fun that a purely competative player has. Basically it's only a way of trying to make both sides happy.)
The game itself is subjective to the gamer, meaning the gamer decides how the game will be to him. If the game feels more deep, competative gamers will eat it up, and casual gamers will hate them for making it competative. If the game feels more shallow, casual gamers will have as much fun as they can, and competative gamers will overlook it, or not ejoy the simplicity, nor gain a sense of satisfation.
What makes the Super Smash Brothers series interesting is that it is an almost "forced" combination of the two. SSB is a fighting game series. How can competition EVER be avoided. The creator makes it casual, the competative gamer will make it competative regardless.
Take note that the primary intention of making these games are to make money. Whatever that is deemed money making will be sought after. Which do you think is a larger communitiy, the competative scene or the casual players? Obviously other deep games were made soely for the competative scene, but only if it was deemed profitable. I don't look down on the makers of games, or do I think that all of them are greedy and whatnot. I'm saying that the goal is money.
In general, people who don't know anything about something don't tend to go deep in it. Their is a risk or ruining the fun of a hobby if you study it, so they don't dive deeper because they want their simple pleasures. Those that do dive deeper gain their pleasures because they are deeply into it. They don't want to run the risk of losing what they've earned, so they have to constantly keep up their game.
This is not to say competative gamers don't play for fun sometimes, or that casual gamers never try to get better. It is human nature to be competative, however it is also natual that some don't want to be competative because their energy is being used elsewhere. The same is with competative and casual gamers.
In my opinion people should do what they're doing right now : Casual players play with other casual players, competative players compete against other competative players. Just don't play against the other type. However, I'm sure that even those games were meant to be cometative have many people playing it casualy. With that in mind, I think that Sakurai made a bad move in entering this buiness altogether. Fighting/Wars/Skirmishes = Competative. No one who ever lost a war went over to the enemy and said that was fun, good job, great laugh, lets do that again. Even fake fighting will and always will be competative, even though it will have casual players. So in trying to make fighting (Although fake) purely casual and doing everything in his power to destroy competative play, he is contradicting himself. His actions clearly shows him trying to break down the competative community, I don't care what he said about "Don't get me wrong, the competative scene is very interesting" or W/E. His actions are SCREAMING his intent, he just so happened to make his intent public and wanted to win both sides. So what is the one thing that would make Sakurai happy? A world without competative players, so that he can make people feel good, and gain money doing so.
The way that sakurai expects people to be happy is IMO insane. Find me a person who had fun from being KO because of tripping and I'll show you someone insane as well. Why? Because people have fun in a fightng game when something AWSOME happends. Not tripping. Maybe suicides (Lol Jigglypuff's Shield Break), for sure long sudden deaths, for sure a hard AT, or combo, for sure the priceless look in the face of the character (not the player) when hit by a final smash attack, and for sure when something unpredicted by both players suddenly occurs that affects both of them(EX : Not on sudden death when a bomb falls out of nowhere into an attack KOing both players. LOLZ). Also IT IS NOT FUN TO LOSE BUT FUN TO PLAY AN AWESOME GAME WITH SOMEONE EVEN WHEN YOU LOSE, and THAT counters the bitterness of losing.
Because Meele wasn't effectively made to be casual, competative players will tend to like it's playstyle more. The competative scene will still be in Brawl, for it is a FIGHTING game. As to what is BETTER, I say neither despite what I've said. Meele is different than Brawl. (And that is probably why those who support Meele dislike Brawl so much.) If there was truely Meele V.02 everyone, even the Brawlers would focus on it. If there was a Brawl V.02 (Or worse in the sense of more casual) very few Meelers would stick with it, and brawlers would stick with it more likely just because they don't mind just as the didn't mind with brawl.
All in all.
Competative and Casual are just different.
Sakurai wants fun more than anything. (And money)
Fighting = Competition.
Sakurai wants to destroy competative play.
Sakurai's "fun" is insane and distorted.
Fun = AWSOMENESS (Regardless of win or lose)
Lose = Unhappy (Regardless of awsomeness, although the unhappiness may be extremely minor)
Meele and Brawl are just different just as competative and casual.
I'd like to thank those who actually read through all of this. THANK YOU! Even if you disagree I appriciate that you've read it and I hope this adds to the forums rather than take away, even if there going to be disagreements. (WOW I've got to go to sleep, writing this took WAY too long!)
Fletch
Smash Master
That was a whole lot of writing that didn't really go anywhere... and the correct spelling is "competitive".
Greenstreet
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2008
- Messages
- 2,965
Sakurai's intentions do not affect how we play the game. So this thread is useless. Play it how you want to play it. There is barely a need for critical discussion over such a subjective topic.
You didn't play the previous game competitively while we have with both of them. If anything, you, and all those with like minds of yours, need to take a step back and get the correct perspective. Currently, there are two groups of people playing Brawl: New people who came here just to play Brawl who didn't play Melee and Melee players who feel their scene isn't coming back so they are going with Brawl for now.
For you to complain about "Melee purists" is a total contradiction to yourself being a "Brawl purist." You are just as biased as someone who promotes Melee, except you don't have experience in that game like people on the Melee side have about both games.
Also, pray tell, what would have been wrong with Melee 2.0? would you have really cared if Nintendo made the game without intentionally castrating our competitive *****?
Reported. Stop trying to be a moderator.
Grunt
Smash Master
HeroMystic
Legacy of the Mario
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2008
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- San Antonio, Texas
- NNID
- HeroineYaoki
- 3DS FC
- 2191-8960-7738
Who the **** bumped this topic?
There are also another group of people: People who play Brawl over Melee just simply because they believe, in their eyes, Brawl is more fun. They're not hard to find.
Aesir
Smash Master
I hope a Hermaphrodite breaks into your home and ***** you with a ***** the size of your failure.
HeroMystic
Legacy of the Mario
- Joined
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- San Antonio, Texas
- NNID
- HeroineYaoki
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I'd rather not give out names here, but some are on this board, some are off this board, but compared to the first two groups, they're a minority.
You know that statistics require there to be an actual number to be considered part of the total. Zero is not a minority, it's not existent.
However, this also brings up a frequent topic. People who are not on smash boards or who have never been here are not competitive smash players. Without this portal, you do not have access to nearly any local events, meaning you are not very active in the community. Not to mention the certain lack of knowledge of ATs and such. If you don't come or haven't ever been to the boards, you are probably not a competitive player. These people, aside from not really existing, shouldn't be counted as potential contradictories to my statement.
However, this also brings up a frequent topic. People who are not on smash boards or who have never been here are not competitive smash players. Without this portal, you do not have access to nearly any local events, meaning you are not very active in the community. Not to mention the certain lack of knowledge of ATs and such. If you don't come or haven't ever been to the boards, you are probably not a competitive player. These people, aside from not really existing, shouldn't be counted as potential contradictories to my statement.
Smooth Criminal
Da Cheef
I wasn't acting like an internet tough guy, numbskull. I was acting like a guy who found this topic needlessly bumped. It served its purpose; points have been doled out. Brawl isn't a very good competitive game; people will play it anyway because they prefer it. That's it.
And at any rate, don't you think Unwelcomed's comment about "Melee purists" was just a teensy bit derisive and just a tad tasteless?
At any rate, it's a good thing you reported (see? I can spell!) me. Otherwise mods wouldn't be able to see the fact that this topic needs closing.
Smooth Criminal
Actually he is. Stop being a n00b.
Lol "reproted". WTF.
Playing like a man? You mean with "honor"? Because honor doesn't exist in competition. The point of competition is to win. A lot of people derive fun from the actual competition. It's not that hard to understand, but for some reason we just can't beat it into your skulls hard enough.
Again: your values =/= everyone's values.
Black Mantis
Smash Hero
I never said honor is a bad thing. I said in competition, it's ridiculous to not do anything in your power (within the given ruleset) to win. If not, why are you even in competition?
unwelc0med
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2008
- Messages
- 419
why in all the seven hells would i want your mother to break into my house and **** me?
unwelc0med
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2008
- Messages
- 419
So that's what you kids are into nowadays. The hell is happening to our country.
Try not being a complete moron.
Smooth Criminal
Da Cheef
RDK's actually in a very nice med school and has very little time to chill on the internet with the rest of us peons.
WTF is your excuse, son?
Smooth Criminal
unwelc0med
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2008
- Messages
- 419
Because your grammar is so appallingly bad that I thought you were trying to say "get's you friends for life".
You're really not helping your case any. Diving into a thread just to rag on competitives is probably the quickest way to get labeled an incompetent fool around here. Congratulations. You've just lost everybody's respect.
unwelc0med
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2008
- Messages
- 419
i have no problem with competitive smash. i have problems with trolls who come in here and say melee is better, it has l cancelling and wavedashing and teching and no tripping and hitstun and etc.
you guys know this kind of stuff elicits flame wars, so why not stick to your boards and we'll stick to ours? i'm sick and tired of people acting like brawl was the next superman 64.
unwelc0med
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2008
- Messages
- 419
fine.
let's just leave at this.
let's just leave at this.
Smooth Criminal
Da Cheef
DON'T TOUCH ME NOW (So throw da water on 'em!)
Smooth Criminal
Smooth Criminal
unwelc0med
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2008
- Messages
- 419
what? uh, wrong thread?
unwelc0med
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2008
- Messages
- 419
i'm pretty sure busta rhymes has nothing to do with competitive smash D: