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Scar on the Melee vs Brawl debate: What does competitive really mean?

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vegeta9000

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Card said:
Scar, I tip my hat to you since this is an incredibly well thought out and executed post... Something that is really missing from these boards.

Now, as much as I hate to do this, I think this entire thread is not arbitration, but this is just a counterproductive post on the Brawl Discussion boards.

Basically all I see this post as describing is the following;
  1. People who hate on Brawl are misunderstood and are not actually as much anti-brawl as you think.
  2. People who have the most skill should win in whatever game they are playing.
  3. People who like Brawl (over Melee) never make any good points about their game, and use weak blanket statements.
  4. People who like Brawl (over Melee) continue to use the same two statements which are invalid.

For simplicities sake, I'll just refer to the pronoun "you" when referring to people who firmly believe Melee to be more competitive than Brawl, and "we"/"us" when referring to people who prefer Brawl over Melee (for whatever reasons)

So just what is it exactly you want from us?

Do you want us to parade the streets of SmashBoards with signs saying that Melee is more competitive than Brawl? Do you want us to just give up on this game and not bother playing it because Melee is more competitive? What exactly does it take for you "pro-melee" players to just leave us alone? I'm still baffled over a thread like this, which is so horrendously cluttered with obvious pro-melee statements (as you already admitted in your opening line).

I'm still wondering what the true purpose of all of this is.... really. It's not arbitration, that is all I can say.

Like I said earlier, but I will reaffirm. It's threads like these that keep the community and Smash Brawl from continuing to evolve. Look, Brawl is limited compared to Melee. They removed a lot of advanced techniques which opened up a world of options that they had in Melee. Any Brawl player who says otherwise is only fooling themselves and shouldn't be taken seriously in the first place. Do you need like the entire Brawl community to admit that Brawl is less competitive than Melee in order to get on with evolving the game?

But instead of doing what you and other "pro-melee" players do and focusing on what ISN'T in Brawl (and indirectly, what is in Melee) and focusing on WHAT BRAWL IS and working with that.

Now though, don't get me wrong; You are absolutely right with your entire post. I just think that this thread belongs in the pile of "Beating the dead horse." Fine, Brawl is less competitive. Fine, Brawl is limited. Fine, the pro-melee crowd is right about everything when comparing the two games. Is that what you want to hear? Because it sounds to me that you still haven't moved on with just how bad Brawl is in comparison to Melee.

I believe the proper saying for this would be "If Sakurai gives you lemons, make lemonade" and that is clearly what has happened when Sakurai gave us our Lemon... Smash Brawl. You along with all the other pro-melee crowd are still surprised that you are holding a Lemon in your hand, and it seems like you won't do something with it until everyone else around you acknowledges that you have a Lemon in your hand in order for you to just move on and make Lemonade.



No, it's not. This thread is here to continue to remind everyone that you along with the pro-melee crowd are holding a Lemon in your hand. Meanwhile I'm waiting at my Lemonade stand, and trying to improve my technique in order to make it taste all the more sweeter.

I don't mean to sound harsh (I especially think you don't deserve it because I respect your opinion greatly), but can we please get over it and work towards evolving Brawl. This thread accomplishes absolutely nothing apart from keeping us back at Square One in Brawl's evolution process.


PS: I just realized I really abused that Lemon metaphor :laugh: I thought it fit so perfectly..
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the purpose of this thread is to let people know what ppl mean when they say "melee is more competitive than brawl"

cause some ppl didnt know what it meant

melee is more competitive because of advanced techs.

brawl has no advanced techs your basically playing melee without advanced techs. less finger intensive /skill/memory required, and more camping

the two games are different. personally, i like brawl more. i didnt like what advanced techs did to melee so im happy
 
R

RDK

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Jesus, how could I forget the GA version?

BTW, who's that sexy fellow in the gray shirt to the left of the group? He's quite a looker.
 
Proud_Smash_N00b

Proud_Smash_N00b

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Sure there will be new advanced techs in Brawl, but can they impact Brawl as much as Wavedashing and L-Cancelling did in Melee? That is the main thing Brawl must accomplish to be more competitive. Sure, it took 7 years to find out all the good stuff about Melee, but with a lot of the good stuff gone, can Brawl make up for what was lost within 7 years? I honestly doubt it because there are a lot of things that can't be changed about Brawl such as Low Hitstun, Tripping, Low Gravity, and Nerfed Characters. These things impact Brawl in an extremely negative way.

Those who guarantee themselves that Brawl will be more competitive look at what MIGHT happen but dont think about ALL of the possibilities. It is possible that NOTHING will EVER replace Wavedashing and L-Cancelling. It is possible that something new will pop up to blow us all away. But for now, instead of just making empty promises to oneself that Brawl will be more competitive, just play the game and hope that something new will show up.

Im not trying to be pessimistic but Im trying to get more people to look at the other side of the situation.

Now, I honestly believe that all the really positive reviews of Brawl are exaggerated because IMO, its not as good as the reviews say.
 
D

Down2Earth

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Proud Smash N00b. We won't know until they are found.

A lot of people are saying some moronic things in this thread. The other half are actually having a decent debate. If we could cut through these posts that just ask questions that CANNOT be answered as of yet, we'd be getting somewhere.

Christ, they really are obsolete posts.
 
Clai

Clai

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Proud_Smash_N00b said:
Sure there will be new advanced techs in Brawl, but can they impact Brawl as much as Wavedashing and L-Cancelling did in Melee? That is the main thing Brawl must accomplish to be more competitive. Sure, it took 7 years to find out all the good stuff about Melee, but with a lot of the good stuff gone, can Brawl make up for what was lost within 7 years? I honestly doubt it because there are a lot of things that can't be changed about Brawl such as Low Hitstun, Tripping, Low Gravity, and Nerfed Characters. These things impact Brawl in an extremely negative way.

Those who guarantee themselves that Brawl will be more competitive look at what MIGHT happen but dont think about ALL of the possibilities. It is possible that NOTHING will EVER replace Wavedashing and L-Cancelling. It is possible that something new will pop up to blow us all away. But for now, instead of just making empty promises to oneself that Brawl will be more competitive, just play the game and hope that something new will show up.

Im not trying to be pessimistic but Im trying to get more people to look at the other side of the situation.

Now, I honestly believe that all the really positive reviews of Brawl are exaggerated because IMO, its not as good as the reviews say.
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With all due respect, the people reviewing these games have no care at all about the potential competiveness of the game. They are not looking back into its predecessor and comparing the two games to see which is better. They are looking into Brawl as its own game, one that they question and critique if the average person would enjoy it as the game Sakurai represents it. All Super Smash Brothers games are promoted as casual party games, and they are reviewed as nothing more. As a party game with a casual style, Brawl greatly outperforms its previous games: Better graphics, third party characters to attract wholly new fanbases, and even a true adventure mode with a complete story. The Smash franchise will thrive as one of the most prestigous franchises in video games, and it isn't because of wavedashing and L-canceling.

Our community is extremely different from the rest of the gaming community. Only the Smash community will spend any time comparing the two games. Only we will spend this much time arguing about the innate competiveness of the game. Everybody else will either play the game as it was intended or find another game to play if Brawl is not to their liking. Nobody else will try to circumvent Brawl's shortcomings by finding new techniques, because to them, it's just another game.

My point: Brawl deserved the ranking it received, even if it's not as pleasing to the competitve community as we had hoped.
 
R

RDK

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I don't think it deserved the ranking it received. I still think the game is crap.
 
R

RDK

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It's a circle of balance.

Cort's Snake > Plank's MK > Ninjalink's Diddy > Cort's Snake.....
 
thumbswayup

thumbswayup

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wars not make one great
lol Plank makes me hate Brawl more than I already do. Did you know he ran the clock out on about 3 people at CH3? All at Luigi's Mansion too I think. I heard the stage is now banned because of him.
 
R

RDK

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thumbswayup said:
lol Plank makes me hate Brawl more than I already do. Did you know he ran the clock out on about 3 people at CH3? All at Luigi's Mansion too I think. I heard the stage is now banned because of him.
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He went Snake at CH3, and placed well, but I doubt he got Luigi's Mansion banned just by running the clock out on several matches. That's just the nature of Brawl.

Also, good **** @ Azen Zagenite getting 2nd with Lucario.
 
K

Kirby Magatsu

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Luigi's Mansion is uber using Kirby and MK, Kirby throw combos simply ***** the opponents in the roof.
 
Fletch

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Azen Zagenite said:
Luigi's Mansion is funny, if you're the metaknight. I planked DSF when he counterpicked me there, lolllz.

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Too good... I've always wondered why you stick with Lucario, is he really your best character or do you just like playing him? It seems like you would **** if you picked up MK or Snake like everyone else...
 
Azen Zagenite

Azen Zagenite

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=^_^=

fletch71011 said:
I've always wondered why you stick with Lucario, is he really your best character or do you just like playing him?
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Lucario is too fun, my favorite character to play lollz. He's probably my overall best, but I use other chars depending on the situation. I'm not very good with the top tiers lolll.

 
thumbswayup

thumbswayup

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Azen Zagenite said:
Lucario is too fun, my favorite character to play lollz. He's probably my overall best, but I use other chars depending on the situation. I'm not very good with the top tiers lolll.

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Bull**** I saw you beat Forte in a MK ditto at Cyberden not two weeks ago lol. But I love watching your Lucario, wish mine were half as good.
 
Corigames

Corigames

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I tried playing other games, let me tell you what games I tried playing in the first two weeks of Brawl's release:

Supreme Commander
Halo 3
Halo 2
Soul Caliber 3
Guilty Gear Accent Core
DBZ: BT2
Super Mario Strikers
Strikers Charged
Mario Kart DS

And am currently trying to play Mario Kart 64 competitively. Yet, nothing seems to fill the void in my heart where competitive melee use to be.
 
Corigames

Corigames

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Burnout 3 > F-zero

I've never really let Melee go... everyone else has forcing me to be the last man standing. The loser in the game of musical chairs called life.
 
Fletch

Fletch

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Azen Zagenite said:
Lucario is too fun, my favorite character to play lollz. He's probably my overall best, but I use other chars depending on the situation. I'm not very good with the top tiers lolll.

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If by not very good you mean better than pretty much everyone else who actually plays the top tiers. I wish I could be "not very good" like you.
 
gantrain05

gantrain05

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coreygames said:
I tried playing other games, let me tell you what games I tried playing in the first two weeks of Brawl's release:

Supreme Commander
Halo 3
Halo 2
Soul Caliber 3
Guilty Gear Accent Core
DBZ: BT2
Super Mario Strikers
Strikers Charged
Mario Kart DS

And am currently trying to play Mario Kart 64 competitively. Yet, nothing seems to fill the void in my heart where competitive melee use to be.
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you should try starcraft, thats always been my fallback competetive game, if your into rts thats the way to go, but i know what you mean, i miss melee too, none of my friends play anymore, and i can't play comps its just so boring, im so rusty i don't even wanna know how i'd do in a tourny setting these days, i guess i'll find out on the 25th, goin to a good tourney, melee/brawl/64 tourney.
 
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