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Scar talks Lean Melee [2012YotF]

D

Deleted member

Guest
bummer

...

anyway, i find that i always end up running away against fox. is there a way to play the matchup where falcon is chasing fox around for most of the match? I mean, you can techchase and combo them like crazy and be on their *** but when its in neutral i feel like fox has the inherent advantage because falcon only gets that first hit in after a good bait or something.
reliant on bad opponents

but I think only like 5 foxes in the world aren't 'bad' in some way

in theory, fox vs falcon should be 70-30 maybe 65-35 fox

but people have flaws in their gameplay, obvious approaches, non optimal shield pressure/ punish, obvious techs that fox vs falcon becomes more like 60-40, 55-45

you can't do an obvious approach IMO, unless opponent is really bad against it/ they just plain suck

either do a kookster approach or camp aggressively with dashdance/ movespam
 

Windrose

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 22, 2009
Messages
1,470
The part that's most difficult to improve on is neutral game i think.....not sure if that's true for other characters having only mained falcon...

but i'm always struggling with neutral game. It's always difficult to find that small opening/weakness and take it all the way home to a stock.
 

Aussierob123

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Messages
2,033
Location
Gold Coast - Australia
It's a bit the opposite for me. My combos are getting better but they aren't as good as a real falcon. I can get the hit in but I don't always finish a combo which is something I think makes the top falcons a league above other falcons. When I do a 0-death I feel proud and ****, but For the top falcons that'd just be the stock standard part of every match lol.

:phone:
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
all u gotta do is figure out your opponent, their capabilities, likeliness of tech skill/ teching semi hard stuff, etc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_2AZNObbOs

match of me vs esam

esams a pretty smart samus/fox dude who mostly plays brawl

focusing on his fox match but before that, i played his samus and pretty much learned he has an 'old-school' smart style

2:28 most people who aren't technically tough will not tech after a stomp after they expected to hit with a move and instead get stomped in the face

2:30 smart players often don't do the obvious n00b route of teching in and often tech towards the edge which is very dangerous but also not likely to get punished by average falcons

i would not cover tech towards edge vs n00bs and instead side-b in wherever his body lands unless hes a trickster. But smart/good players have a tendency to tech towards the edge a LOT

from then on, he misses techs 5 other times and each time it happened I hit him because he misses semi-tough/ tougher techs almost consistently. and he spot dodges a lot too

ideally, your goal by 3rd match is to find out your opponents ****ty qualities and just exploit it constantly until they switch it up. but 95% of smashers won't. the other 4 % are good and will. and <1% are so good at mixing it up that ithey seem unexploitable.

but the match vs his fox despite being my first match vs his fox I went for what I felt would work just knowing that he's 80% a brawl player, plays smart as hell based on his samus match, and that his tech skill would not be optimal. Just knowing stuff like this beforehand gives you an advantage in spots to look for and common flaws that those type of people tend to have

if you wanna be a real *******, you can go look up some vids of them and find out their habits before you go to a tourney. I honestly hate this but some of the top players who I respect, do this stuff

===

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcI0XP9_KoI

me vs leffen both playing pretty ****ing bad

fast forward to end of last match

i could sense leffen was really nervous and he literally teched in towards the stage everytime despite having a pretty good lead

so i just covered that option every single time and i fluked out a win

i also rolled like a ****ing n00b and he never punished it. in those spots, NEVER STOP ROLLING LIKE AN IDIOT. EVEN IF HEs 2ND BEST IN SWEDEN DON"T EVERY STOP DOING NOOB **** IF IT WORKS

==

based on everybody i have played from bad to good to a few levels below mango level everyone has a pattern. just playing a bunch and knowing tendencies of opponents who you feel are ********/ kinda smart/ tricky, etc will let you figure out how to face different opponents later who have a similar style/ level of play.

mango has no pattern and if it weren't for 99% of the smash community sucking **** I would sincerely give up hope with falcon from playing him

=

some other hints: not that good players will often give you a good idea of which way they will tech or not simply by their DI. Better players are often not exploitable because they will mix it up (except in certain high pressure spots) but I know some high level socal dudes who BROADCAST their techs by their DI.

make sure you can punish and always go with your reads

looking up some random falcon vid, you always see someone 'read' someone but they do a ********, emptiest short hop and kinda just slowly fall down to the floor as the opponent techs into them and they do absolutely nothing. don't be the typical youtube n00b that BLOWS the **** out of EASY stUFF
 

0Room

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Messages
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Boone, NC
How was that a "fluke" win? [talking about how you said you didn't deserve the win back in the critique thread]
You abused a pattern like you were supposed to

As I said
A win is a win is a win
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
and stupidity is eternal!!!!!!!!!

way to bring up something ******** when i make a big *** post to help people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

0Room

Smash Lord
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Lmao I had no problem with the post, the post was good
I was just curious about what we were talking about earlier
 

ChivalRuse

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
8,413
Location
College Park, MD
That post back a bit was good, Johnny. I like how you pointed out the tendency for people to telegraph their techs by their DI. I think I've always subconsciously (if not deliberately) thought about where to DI and then decided where to tech after, but Thumbswayup would still tech chase me fine on reaction, so I stopped being so deliberate. But what you said about picking up on people's patterns resonates with me. I guess if you know where somebody's going to tech because they're giving it away, you're in a better position to punish it.
 

BairJew

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
269
Location
Seminole, FL
Originally Posted by s2j
either do a kookster approach or camp aggressively with dashdance/ movespam

haha kookster um very nice, and i usually get ridic punished when i movespam SHFFL fairs
 

Windrose

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 22, 2009
Messages
1,470
s2j, that was insightful on reading. but what about more on this "kookster" approach? How to play correctly during neutral game to open up a chance to even get to read at all. I'm having a hard time opening the book vs very safe opponents so chances to read are low =(.

-----


Has anyone read mango's post on genesis 2???

Would've been really cool if he actually went falcon vs armada!!!! @___@

I'm surprised he even considered falcon in the gf. that would've been SOO COOOL. when was the last time you guy's have seen a falcon in grand finals at an international tournament???????
 

0Room

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Messages
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...falcon main?
i'll take this.
Awesome

Has anyone read mango's post on genesis 2???

Would've been really cool if he actually went falcon vs armada!!!! @___@

I'm surprised he even considered falcon in the gf. that would've been SOO COOOL. when was the last time you guy's have seen a falcon in grand finals at an international tournament???????
No link please?
And Mango went CF vs PP at WGF I believe
Or something
Also it's important to mention that Armada is bad against Falcon relatively

But anywho
Kookster meaning things that normally don't make sense
 

Windrose

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 22, 2009
Messages
1,470
Well, since you insisted on no link. It can be found in the melee discussion thread. It's a hot topic.
 

0Room

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Messages
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Lmao, punctuation
It changes everything


I meant to say "no, link please?"
I did read it, it was fairly interesting.
Mango's falcon is pretty legit, because he just plays player vs player so well
 

0Room

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Messages
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Location
Boone, NC
So who's mm me at Apex?
If you're not sure you're coming assume you are for this
This is like a free $5 come on now

the only confirmation is this
1) Strong Bad

So if you're coming let me know and I'll let you win $5
If not
Come
and win $5
 
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