Scrub-Proof: The Competitive Ike Thread: Take Cover Here! -MOTD: Up Tilt!

[3xSwords]

I wouldn't recommend ground stalking against G&W personally. That key has brutally good priority (I've seen it go through my U-air and U-tilts way to many times...). That's probably an exception though, not the rule. ^^

I think its only going through the u-tilt b/c its too fast. Thus the blade isnt fully raised where you have max disjointed hit box and priority, so that's the only reason why the key can break the u-tilt, same goes for u-smash.

 

[VersatileBJN]

Props to Kirk for key countering. I never thought of that lmao *slaps self*

 

[3xSwords]

Props to Kirk for key countering. I never thought of that lmao *slaps self*

The obvious tend to even amaze the best people, I mean come on who uses counter with Ike? sheesh get a life and start using f-smash

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

Props to Kirk for key countering. I never thought of that lmao *slaps self*

wasnt it ussi who said that?

 

[nitro-blazer]

Nitro it doesnt take much skill to keep pressing Up B to test if it interrupt jabs lolz. Besides, the friend who did it certainly can pull off something so simple.

Yeah, I know, I just have no one available to test it until the weekend

But yeah, it's not so much about the skill, since it's easy. It's about knowledge. how can someone do something they don't know about? (Aside from accidentally.)

Anyway, I almost always downthrow, or throw and just regain my space. The lack of hitstun in Brawl has made me extremely wary of attempting to follow up, but that's just me.

 

[VersatileBJN]

Ok I think it was Ussi. Thanks Ussi

Move of the day is Nair.

I'll post on this tomorrow I gotta study !

 

[Hostility]

Nair is my most used Air move. Quick with no lag, and somewhat hard to punish, definitely one of ike's safer moves. At certain percents, nair to uptilt, or nair to up air works if your opponent doesn't airdodge. Great for screening.

 

[senjiroth]

Nair: a very good air move for ike... with good spacing this move is deadly... it stays for quite a while so it can hit air dodgers after d-throw or f-throw like what u guys said.. i like using this move if i know that my opponent will air dodge so i could connect with neutral a combo or a,a then grab.. basically one of the moves that ike needs to pressure opponents. be careful tho... if u get chain grabbed by DeDeDe: if u got thrown off the ledge do not hit n-air or it will kill u bc it stays for a long time so u'll probably be dead to either jump or aether to grab the ledge..

In conclusion... with careful spacing this move is essential for pressuring and has alot of options after used..

 

[Taylor]

Oh, geez.
I love Nair. Quick execution, huge range, great priority, can be canceled, and a decent approach if linked to another attack. Excellent as a "combo" starter, and pretty good during a defensive game.

That being said, Nair is pretty worthless unless canceled due to the heavy lag. Ike also easily gg's when you get knocked off the edge. Fast fall + insane lag + bad recovery = dead Ike.

 

[XSilvenX]

Oh, geez.
I love Nair. Quick execution, huge range, great priority, can be canceled, and a decent approach if linked to another attack. Excellent as a "combo" starter, and pretty good during a defensive game.

That being said, Nair is pretty worthless unless canceled due to the heavy lag. Ike also easily gg's when you get knocked off the edge. Fast fall + insane lag + AMAZING RECOVERY = dead Ike.

fixed. ^_~

My 2 cents....

Nair can kill at high percents...I've accidently KO'd people with it a few times. If somehow you find yourself in a position where your opponent miraculously has high damage (NAIR KO's Mario at 165 with NO DI.. on FINAL DESTINATION AT GROUND LEVEL just to give you an idea...)..then see if you can get a Nair while they're in mid-air. It will surely KO them if they DI retardedly which they will since most people never expect an Ike to do NAIR in midair without a ground to cancel it on..

The trajectory it sends them is weird...it sends them up and slightly diagonal...so they would have to DI to the side.. LOLOL . How random is that?! Seeing how most people spam Nair though it probably won't kill so easily due to move degeneration.. You're looking at around 165 and up... probably lower depending on how high you hit them
again...MIRACULOUSLY..if you're opponent is really good and is good at dodging all of Ike's other attacks.. then surely a full jump'd NAIR is worth a try...hard to airdodge and nobody will see it coming. Sure you can try upair but Nair has the 270 degrees which allows more versatility. For example you can jump with your back towards them. Point is Nair is extremely hard to dodge when the full animation is allowed to be completed so most likely they WILL get hit.

This random tip has been brought to you by Silvenpedia, a subsidiary of D1pedia.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

i actually just started using nair a few days ago i always did bair or fair but im glad i started using nair because it owns what i try to do is back flip hit them with nair and then do a bair and if i hit them with nair while im facing them i follow up with a jab is there anything else i should follow up with instead?

 

[Ussi]

<3 Nair. My 2nd most used move in a match, really neck and neck with fair usage.

fast fall makes it great. it has virtually NO LAG! careful not to spam it cause shield grabs will own it. You can't space it and it doesn't have the knock back in fair to keep you safe. my personal favorite thing about nair is how if they dodge they still get hit if you have it placed right. It's excellent to throw out when people expect a fair. Love landing a backwards DI Nair hitting the person at their back shield leaving them with no options while i land and start punishing that shield to oblivion. ^^

things to follow up after Nair --> Another Nair, grab, jab, Utilt if you think you can make it.

off topic:

I believe i use counter the most (I mean out of most Ikes). It's actually a regular move for me. It works wonders on wolf's smashes.

 

[Wolt]

I'm not all that great with Nair, as I just don't see fit to use it, and I don't get good set ups on wifi for it. Therefor, I won't discuss a whole lot. Little lag on landing, but it;s the only move you'll ever use in the air, it takes too long afterwards to do anything else. Doing this on wifi to the side of the edge is an SD.

 

[senjiroth]

Thanks for the Wolf advice Ussi... at least someone tried to answer my question...

is n-air good when u use it for when ur on the ledge and ur trying to recover??? i usually do the jump down into aether but it gets predictable.. at times i use eruption (got it from Hostility PROPS) but most of the time i just air dodge.. just wondering... i mean do a n-air then fast fall, if the opponent is in front do the aaa combo, then if the opponent is behind, reverse f-tilt or roll away?

im just throwing out an idea.. im not sure coz i know the n-air has start up lag but i wanna hear ur opinions..

 

[RoK the Reaper]

Nair, the combo starter. Good for opening combos and is normally followed up with the AAA combo. I say try other things such as the D-tilt and probably the F-Smash if you're close to the edge; you'll either eat up all of their shield or they'll roll inside of you and catch the blade anyway while you're bringing it forward. Most people spam this; I wouldn't, it gets predictable. I say use it for chasers and jump in's only. But it can be easily shield grabbed so try to learn it's range.

 

[fire_wulf]

Thanks for the Wolf advice Ussi... at least someone tried to answer my question...

is n-air good when u use it for when ur on the ledge and ur trying to recover??? i usually do the jump down into aether but it gets predictable.. at times i use eruption (got it from Hostility PROPS) but most of the time i just air dodge.. just wondering... i mean do a n-air then fast fall, if the opponent is in front do the aaa combo, then if the opponent is behind, reverse f-tilt or roll away?

im just throwing out an idea.. im not sure coz i know the n-air has start up lag but i wanna hear ur opinions..

If you have fast fingers and can input the button combo fast enough.. you can pull off the ledge.. jump.. .then nair or fair. I would highly suggest against this due to the difficulty of getting the moves off and still landing on the stage. Besides being difficult to pull off.. there are certain stages that have screwed up ledges *cough* yoshi's island *cough* and you will not be able to get the move off and on stage.

I only use the moves if they are not expecting it. I like to stall with Quick Draw and then have one that lands on stage... or drop Aether... or straight up use jump and get height.. If they come after you.. Dair. Or jump again to get out of range. I spent a lot of the night tonight trying to get back on the stage from the legde with my friend very good Olly guarding me. Most of the time i jumped and jumped again to get away and reposition.

I like to approach with FF Nairs. They way it looks just scares the opponent at times giving you a psychological advantage. After i connect i normally do all three jabs. If you keep doing this for consecutive approaches.. they will expect the third jab.. that is when you grab.. forward throw.. into Ftilt.

When it comes to throws.. i use them alot cuz my friends pressure my Ike to no end. I shield grab to gain back a little control. I watched myself tonight and realized that i do the down throw if it looks like i will be able to get at least 1 or 2 more attacks on the person. Other wise i always .. always throw them which ever way is closest to the edge. Make them worry about recovering and not get spiked by my Ike which is notorious for it. Unfortunately... i never up throw.. just don't find it useful.

-FireWulf

 

[DMStudios]

Well, I like to RAR neutral air, and hit with the back part of it. If your opponent is expecting the b-air and side dodges or blocks early, you nail them. You then get a free b-air at lower damages. Sometimes, you can even get an upward angled f-tilt after the b-air.

As for getting back from the edge, I like to drop down, Aether, then drop, second jump immediately, and air dodge. The air dodge cancels on the ground, and you can do a bunch of stuff after words. Like, roll, grab, shield drop jab. Fun stuff.

 

[Sans Glutin]

As for getting back from the edge, I like to drop down, Aether, then drop, second jump immediately, and air dodge. The air dodge cancels on the ground, and you can do a bunch of stuff after words. Like, roll, grab, shield drop jab. Fun stuff.

Haha thats what I do. Sometimes I do Aether when i'm already on the edge and then immediately get up and do my ledge attack which usually hits them.

And n-air is one of Ike's best moves probably. Covers a good distance and is fast, although it doesn't do that great of dmg.

 

[3xSwords]

So besides combo starting, general approach, and air dodge punishing. And ledge hopping which I think is completely useless, b/c the risk of just dying is greater than actually landing the hit. But besides those is there another use for the n-air?

 

[xYz]

nairs should be followed by ONE jab, dont be a noob, dont finish AAA combo... support the cause.

 

[senjiroth]

thanks for answering my questions fire_wulf... props for you... i can probably pull it out since i can do f-air from the ledge jump (tho i always get hit)... nice RAR into n-air idea DMStudios... that could catch ppl since they always expect b-air and could get a kill at high % like what silven said...

good ideas on the recovery options... thanks

N-air seems to prove that its very essential to ike.... from n-air to up-tilt, n-air to angled f-tilt, to n-air to AAA or n-air AA grab...

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

Guys, I couldn't help but notice we are getting super useful info flowing through here... guide level useful stuff.

I wanted to ask, can I feel free to quote some of this stuff in here? It would help the guide I've been building IMMENSELY. However, I won't quote you unless you're comfortable with me doing so. Just give me a simple yes/no. ^^

Thanks.

 

[fire_wulf]

nairs should be followed by ONE jab, dont be a noob, dont finish AAA combo... support the cause.

I guess i just get happy every once in a while when Ike gets to do more than one move quickly followed by another and i just finish the combo. I should try to remember to not spam it... Maybe grab immediately after the Nair to mix things up.

 

[3xSwords]

nairs should be followed by ONE jab, dont be a noob, dont finish AAA combo... support the cause.

lol I'm just a lazy bum. I think,"I can jab cancel and throw, but just finishing the jab gets the job done," so I go AAA.

To Trebor-Nella
Yes for me if you want

 

[senjiroth]

uhmm.. if i gave something good its cool.. i mean sharing ur strategies for playing ike competitively is the purpose of this thread right??

i like n--air

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

lol I'm just a lazy bum. I think,"I can jab cancel and throw, but just finishing the jab gets the job done," so I go AAA.

thats pretty much what i do but i think its because i just 4get that there are better options because cant u AA then AAA again or does it only work on my nub friends?

anyways what ive been trying to do is short hop nair then double jump uair i havent pulled it off much but i killed my friend at like 80%

uhmm.. if i gave something good its cool.. i mean sharing ur strategies for playing ike competitively is the purpose of this thread right??

edit: i hope so thats what ive been trying to do but my ideas suck so im probably getting more out of this than contributing

 

[Ussi]

Thanks for the Wolf advice Ussi... at least someone tried to answer my question...

im just throwing out an idea.. im not sure coz i know the n-air has start up lag but i wanna hear ur opinions..

well the wolf i fought loved to dash up smash ---> Down Smash and forward smash ---> down smash. I just shielded the first then countered out of shield. for a spamming wolf, you have to approach by air. Watch for side B cause you don't want to take 10~20 % for being placed in his favor. Fair works wonders on him though. Seriously, nair doesn't help as much as fair against a wolf. Nair fast fall is good for a quick attack. But when approaching use fair cause Wolf's aerial and ground range is WAAAAY shorter. ONLY his forward smash has good range. UP smash attacks only up. You're attacking from an diagonal angle so that's no problem. of course getting caught by his first laser is always the problem.

You must, i mean MUST anticipate when he is gonna shoot and jump over the first one. If you get hit by the first blast then you're in for some tough ****. Cause you'll have to roll to him if you get caught. Jumping won't help that much cause you'll use your 2nd jump most likely. dash shielding though works a little depending on your distance.

 

[3xSwords]

When I've pwnd too many noobs I just don't feel like playing seriously anymore. So I just like sandbag and take in all the lasers while I approach. OOOOHHHHH YEEEAAAAHHHH tank wolf's lasers. lol

 

[Kirk]

The Neutral Aerial Attack...

What a nice move this is. It covers a very nice range around Ike and lasts for a good amount of time. It has potential to catch people who spot dodge or roll as the attack can stay out for just long enough.

One of the key points is the landing lag...which is very small. How small you ask? Well at the right percent, usually on the low side, you can follow up with a number of attacks with relatively good success. Commonly used follow ups include jabs, jab to grab, uptilt, Bair if you hit with the back part of Nair, or dare I say, ANOTHER Nair. Just be weary your opponent might be able to DI and/or airdodge out of these...but that's pretty much true with almost any other 'combo.'

A word of warning: I'm sure all of you know of this. The dreaded Nair suicide. Usually happens by mistake when trying to press A to get a quick jab on your opponent but you fall of the ledge and before you know it, you're doing the Nair into the abyss. You CANNOT recover from this. The attack last so long in the air you will not be able to jump and Aether back to the stage. Be cautious at the ledge as to not let this happen. But I'm sure it has happened to all of us on numerous occasions, so no worries...right? :o

Overall, a great attack in Ike's arsenal. Learn to use it.

 

[senjiroth]

well the wolf i fought loved to dash up smash ---> Down Smash and forward smash ---> down smash. I just shielded the first then countered out of shield. for a spamming wolf, you have to approach by air. Watch for side B cause you don't want to take 10~20 % for being placed in his favor. Fair works wonders on him though. Seriously, nair doesn't help as much as fair against a wolf. Nair fast fall is good for a quick attack. But when approaching use fair cause Wolf's aerial and ground range is WAAAAY shorter. ONLY his forward smash has good range. UP smash attacks only up. You're attacking from an diagonal angle so that's no problem. of course getting caught by his first laser is always the problem.

all u said was true... sadly the wolf i play likes to spam laser... like at low % he'll just run away from u and keep hitting u with lasers.. when u go near him, AAA combo is waiting for u, then he rans away... but today i got away from that... patience helped me alot xd..

at mid %, he keeps doing what u said except for the dash up smash... and he spams the reflector too... what he does is n-air reflector then d-smash or f-smash and it racks up good damage... the counter worked wonders as what u said...

on the n-air: i've used it alot today and it works!! i did all the combos mention here and i love it when my opponent gets pissed when i do n-air, jab, jab grab, n-air AAA.. truly one of his best combo starter

 

[3xSwords]

I think we've pretty much covered what the n-air can do so Versatile what's the next move of the day? *Sits with eyes filled with hope and excitement*

 

[Ussi]

all u said was true... sadly the wolf i play likes to spam laser... like at low % he'll just run away from u and keep hitting u with lasers.. when u go near him, AAA combo is waiting for u, then he rans away... but today i got away from that... patience helped me alot xd..

at mid %, he keeps doing what u said except for the dash up smash... and he spams the reflector too... what he does is n-air reflector then d-smash or f-smash and it racks up good damage... the counter worked wonders as what u said...

on the n-air: i've used it alot today and it works!! i did all the combos mention here and i love it when my opponent gets pissed when i do n-air, jab, jab grab, n-air AAA.. truly one of his best combo starter

well all players fight differently.

Spam reflector? I guess i forgot to mention that cause every reflector hit was shielded by me. Shielding it leaves HIM in lag and you are FREE to PUNISH him. Jabs usually work best. tilt if your daring. if your back is towards him short hop bair owns. Ike is one of the few with an option out of shield to attack behind him. but getting hit by the reflector you are stunned for a free forward/down smash.

his nair, virtually doesn't flinch you, you can jab while you are being hit by wolf's nair.

 

[senjiroth]

well all players fight differently.

Spam reflector? I guess i forgot to mention that cause every reflector hit was shielded by me. Shielding it leaves HIM in lag and you are FREE to PUNISH him. Jabs usually work best. tilt if your daring. if your back is towards him short hop bair owns. Ike is one of the few with an option out of shield to attack behind him. but getting hit by the reflector you are stunned for a free forward/down smash.

his nair, virtually doesn't flinch you, you can jab while you are being hit by wolf's nair.

yep...

i guess i just react slow... slow reflexes??? but i can at times get over the lasers easily then forget about the reflector... hopefully with experience i'll have fast reflexes.. wanted to compete with u guys someday.. xd

nice info on his n-air and reflector... i didn't know his n-air doesnt flinch you..

how bout a PIT?? seem to have problems with him.... i cant find any openings, whenever he whiffs a smash he can do another one so i couldn't find any openings....

 

[DMStudios]

Yes, you can use my quotes in your guide

 

[XSilvenX]

well all players fight differently.

Spam reflector? I guess i forgot to mention that cause every reflector hit was shielded by me. Shielding it leaves HIM in lag and you are FREE to PUNISH him. Jabs usually work best. tilt if your daring. if your back is towards him short hop bair owns. Ike is one of the few with an option out of shield to attack behind him. but getting hit by the reflector you are stunned for a free forward/down smash.

his nair, virtually doesn't flinch you, you can jab while you are being hit by wolf's nair.

It most certainly does flinch you. It only doesn't flinch you when you get hit by one of the middle frames at the tip but the move will keep going and you'll get hit by the next hit anyway. Put it like this, if you get hit with his Nair initially..you'll more than Flinch..you'll get KNOCKED BACK..because it has knock back. If you get hit with it after the initial thrust it hit as a multi-hit attack like fox's Dair ..except less hits. Anyway, stop sputtering false information, you're starting to look like a nub to me

 

[TechnoMonster]

Man Ike is such a butt. He's so limited in so many aspects of hit game.

N-air looks pretty but in fact sucks. It's short ranged and hits too slowly and too high to be of any value, you're just giving the initiative away. Stay out of the air unless you're spacing with f-air, I say.

I like using Quickdraw to dodge away, and trying to out prioritize people with f-tilt. Other than that I can't find much to do against good opponents except Jab a lot and bait double jumps and air dodges into u-smash, and occasionally comboing into an aether or whatever that thing is called.

 

[XSilvenX]

Man Ike is such a butt. He's so limited in so many aspects of hit game.

N-air looks pretty but in fact sucks. It's short ranged and hits too slowly and too high to be of any value, you're just giving the initiative away. Stay out of the air unless you're spacing with f-air, I say.

I like using Quickdraw to dodge away, and trying to out prioritize people with f-tilt. Other than that I can't find much to do against good opponents except Jab a lot and bait double jumps and air dodges into u-smash, and occasionally comboing into an aether or whatever that thing is called.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe he's so limited because of the way you think and play with him?

 

[Ussi]

It most certainly does flinch you. It only doesn't flinch you when you get hit by one of the middle frames at the tip but the move will keep going and you'll get hit by the next hit anyway. Put it like this, if you get hit with his Nair initially..you'll more than Flinch..you'll get KNOCKED BACK..because it has knock back. If you get hit with it after the initial thrust it hit as a multi-hit attack like fox's Dair ..except less hits. Anyway, stop sputtering false information, you're starting to look like a nub to me

I should have specificied that i meant not the initial hit >.>

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

well this kinda sucks because im going to be gone for a few days and im rly learning alot from this thread probably gana have to read like 10 pages when i get back but it will be worth it thx to all of you ive started using some combos more along with nair and ftilt even though we havent talked about that one lol.

also i was wondering are we going to discuss how to deal with some characters because that would be pretty good too some people might have a nice combo that only works against snakes 0.0

 

[senjiroth]

everyone makes mistakes..... xd

where's versatile at??? i wanna talk about f-air or f-tilt or up-tilt... those are 3 of my mostly used moves...