MdrnDayMercutio
Smash Champion
Posting in two threads at once leads to mix ups. My bad.
Anyway, any thoughts on Sonic vs. Link?
Anyway, any thoughts on Sonic vs. Link?
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Sega Vs. Everyone (Zamus and Marth entry complete)
- Thread starter BlueTerrorist
- Start date
KirbyandSonicrock14
Smash Ace
Link heavy and has the range game over Sonic,but it seem his smashs aren't great for K.O. Sonic has the speed and Combos over Link.But Link is a lot more heavy know,and a good read Link like a book.But,in the end I'm really not sure Sonic has it over Link.
Umby
Smash Master
Nair cancels out Fox's Illusion.
Deathwish238
Smash Apprentice
anybody have any tips with sonic vs zelda (me being sonic). zelda out prioritizes sonic with almost everything especially her fsmash and usmash. and sonic's gimping game is destroyed by her teleport. does anybody know if sonic's bair and fair go through her fsmash???
Browny
Smash Hater
I think Sonic has quite a good chance against pikachu. playing against my brother today his Pika beat all my mains (i used about 8 characters) except Toon link, but toon link owns in general. however with sonic, the first match he won, surviving on 154% and i won the next by almost an entire stock. I would have expected my marth, lucario, ness and wolf to make short work of pika but none of them beat him. It was quite interesting listening to him get very angry, saying how its so impossible to hit sonic.
So anyway ill add my $0.02
Pikachu
Do:
- Wait for an opening. approaching pika is almost as suicidal as approaching wolf, however sonic is probably one of the only characters who can punish pika consistently if he abuses his dsmash, thunder or skull bash.
- Edgehog. force pikachu to use his recoveries such that they dont sweet spot the edge, and get ready to fsmash when he lands. once again, sonic is so quick that a shield-cancelled dash into fsmash is fast enough to punish even quick-attacks landing lag.
- D-air when he uses thunder. used from high up, provided you space it properly you can get to the ground and stutter-step fsmash before the thunder animation is even over. i managed to do this quite a few times today, and eventually completely discouraged any further use of thunder.
- Approach with n-air. its probably the safest approach when pika is spamming thunderjolt. otherwise roll-canclled spin charges during an approach may work too
Don't:
- Spot dodge. Pikas broken dsmash lasts longer than the entire spot dodge, and he can spam it out of shield to be practically invincible.
- Cancel spin dash into a homing attack. thunder makes short work of it every time
- Attack him off the stage. with quick attack pika can just zip right past you back onto the stage, and suddenly you end up being camped by thunder.
Opinion.
Pikachu is a beast in brawl, he can chain grab fast fallers up to 80%, kills lightweights at around 80% with fsmash, thunder and his dsmash is ridiculous. However many of pikas insane advantaged are lost to sonic. His chain grab only goes to about 18%, and sonic kills at lower % overall, fsmash and dsmash will kill at 100% while pika has to get sonic at least above 110%, provided you dont get thundered off the top (of course pikas sweet-spotted fsmash is more powerful, but so short ranged). Sonic is one of the very few characters who can punish pika for missed attacks, be sure to do this every chance you get.
Abusing dash attacks and running shield grabs work incredibly well for racking up the damage. everytime pika misses with a dsmash or thunder, you NEED to punish it. a grab + pummel + upthrow is a free 18% damage, going anywhere up to 27% beyond when pika is beyond 100%. also, you need to master stutter stepping. it outranges thunder and dsmash, baiting pikachu into one of these two attacks is just too easy, just make sure youre ready for it, because its a free kill beyond 100%
pika may be fast, but like sonic his KO moves are stragely slow. try to keep him in the air where pika loses all his KO potential, his upsmash is still pretty good, #1 threat to avoid imo
So anyway ill add my $0.02
Pikachu
Do:
- Wait for an opening. approaching pika is almost as suicidal as approaching wolf, however sonic is probably one of the only characters who can punish pika consistently if he abuses his dsmash, thunder or skull bash.
- Edgehog. force pikachu to use his recoveries such that they dont sweet spot the edge, and get ready to fsmash when he lands. once again, sonic is so quick that a shield-cancelled dash into fsmash is fast enough to punish even quick-attacks landing lag.
- D-air when he uses thunder. used from high up, provided you space it properly you can get to the ground and stutter-step fsmash before the thunder animation is even over. i managed to do this quite a few times today, and eventually completely discouraged any further use of thunder.
- Approach with n-air. its probably the safest approach when pika is spamming thunderjolt. otherwise roll-canclled spin charges during an approach may work too
Don't:
- Spot dodge. Pikas broken dsmash lasts longer than the entire spot dodge, and he can spam it out of shield to be practically invincible.
- Cancel spin dash into a homing attack. thunder makes short work of it every time
- Attack him off the stage. with quick attack pika can just zip right past you back onto the stage, and suddenly you end up being camped by thunder.
Opinion.
Pikachu is a beast in brawl, he can chain grab fast fallers up to 80%, kills lightweights at around 80% with fsmash, thunder and his dsmash is ridiculous. However many of pikas insane advantaged are lost to sonic. His chain grab only goes to about 18%, and sonic kills at lower % overall, fsmash and dsmash will kill at 100% while pika has to get sonic at least above 110%, provided you dont get thundered off the top (of course pikas sweet-spotted fsmash is more powerful, but so short ranged). Sonic is one of the very few characters who can punish pika for missed attacks, be sure to do this every chance you get.
Abusing dash attacks and running shield grabs work incredibly well for racking up the damage. everytime pika misses with a dsmash or thunder, you NEED to punish it. a grab + pummel + upthrow is a free 18% damage, going anywhere up to 27% beyond when pika is beyond 100%. also, you need to master stutter stepping. it outranges thunder and dsmash, baiting pikachu into one of these two attacks is just too easy, just make sure youre ready for it, because its a free kill beyond 100%
pika may be fast, but like sonic his KO moves are stragely slow. try to keep him in the air where pika loses all his KO potential, his upsmash is still pretty good, #1 threat to avoid imo
TwinkleToes
Smash Lord
Death, your gimping game isn't necessarily "destroyed" by Zelda's teleport, but it is quite different. For the most part, you will be staying on the stage and either edge-hogging or faking an edge-hog. If Zelda goes top-side on the stage she's a sitting duck for a fair amount of time and has a bit of landing lag. If that isn't enough for you to knock her off the stage again then she either has too little damage or you phail as a Sonic player. Either way I got nothing else for you.
Also, it is possible to gimp her still if she tries to come in high on the level using the u-air gimp (she probably won't but just in case she does you should be ready to exploit that opportunity).
Also, it is possible to gimp her still if she tries to come in high on the level using the u-air gimp (she probably won't but just in case she does you should be ready to exploit that opportunity).
KirbyandSonicrock14
Smash Ace
What about Sonic vs.Game&Watch.Let see,share my thoughts on this one.I first thought G&W own Sonic with his air and smashs,but I found that a G&W palyer willl have trouble K.O.ing,becasue G&W might be a beast,but still has trouble with his K.O. speed.so,Sonic might be able to run down G&W for all he worth.
Phoenix_Dark
Smash Lord
G&W does not have trouble getting KO's.. I'm too lazy to make a guide thing, but I will say that G&W definitely has the advantage over Sonic.
Umby
Smash Master
G&W's moves have little wind down lag and insane hitboxes. He just about spam fsmash/dsmash and you'll get hit trying to avoid the first one, running into the second one. If you try and stay too far he'll just turn around and start spamming SH Bair.
Deathwish238
Smash Apprentice
yea thanks twinkle i beat my friend pretty bad the next time we played much more unpredictable this time and used my spring WAY more, becuz the spring actually hits zelda out of her usmash which was making me cry lol and yea about the gimping he tries to upB into me so when he appears he hits me with his flame and if he hits me it virtually has no lag and if i shield samething since zelda pushes you back but yea i kinda figured it out and exploited his landing lag > grab > back throw > repeat. and yea right b4 she teleports she has a window where you could still hit her but still i hate playing against zelda =( i just have to be extremely unpredictable samething i guess with all the char. sonic faces.
Umby
Smash Master
I really don't mean to be an ***, but for the love of God, learn to not type in run on sentences at some point in time - that was a pain to read, man. ._.
Umby
Smash Master
Offering my opinion on Olimar & Pikmin
If Olimar likes to spam roll -> dsmash, be wary of it, but that's your small window of opportunity. I find you can get off a jump to his back and bair (or from the front if you've turned around) during this instance. Using bair period is pretty good during the entire fight.
****ing throws. Olimar's grab range is just extremely broken. And since Sonic pressure by running, Spin Dashing, or Spin Charging, he can wall your approach just by throwing out grabs, since they come out almost instantly after the previous one. If he throws you off the edge, he'll sit back a nice distance from the edge and start throwing out a fsmash wall. If you want to sit there too long, he can even grab you. Yes, he can grab you while you're ****ing hanging on the edge. If he predicts your ledgehop, you'll take a fair to the face. If you try to get up or get up attack, he'll just grab or fsmash you again. You definitely want to try and jump (not ledgehop) from the edge in most instances, making sure to see if he'll try and fair the ledgehop first. If you make it up, air dodge the usmash.
If you get him off the edge, it's almost a no brainer. Pressure him to come in from below, then grab the edge. The only way he's making it back is if he times his up B to sit him right above the edge. Make a note, that he CANNOT use up B to grab the ledge if it's occupied. I mean, if he times it correctly, he can possibly ledge spike, you, but that won't be a problem at decent percentages, and the fact of the matter is, he still isn't grabbing the god**** ledge. It's worth the damage to get that gimp.
Your overall best assets to this game are fair, bair, nair, and dash attack. Don't worry about taking him out from the top, it's much easier to aim for the blastlines, since you can still gimp if you don't kill. Fair is your insurance that you have more control over the air, and is once of your best approaches from a short hop. Bair is a cool move in the fact that when you land it, you're approaching from the front and attacking his back. This is good for Olimars who love to shield grab and gives you some breathing room and a chance to follow up with a dash attack or Spin Dash. Nair of course negates Pikmin Throw, which can cut down on damage. Dash attack is just there to mix up your approach, since Olimar basically forces you to approach from the air the majority of the time.
Now keep in mind, this view has been based off of the ONE Olimar I play. I will not call him out, but he basically sticks to an fsmash/grab wall, rolls, then dsmashes. Anything else he does are no-brainer type things, like usmashing/uairing when I'm above him. I am aware this may not be the general way most Olimars play, especially since the smasher I play pretty much neglects all his other good moves, like Nair, and his tilts. So if anything else, pay attention to the edgeguarding portion of my opinion of this match up.
And to stress it again, gimp this guy. He really can't **** with you in the air unless he's below you, and off-stage, that's where you want him if he hasn't hit the blastlines. Hold on to the edge, and don't fear getting hit by his upB.
That said, Olimar is forced to neglect his Pikmin throw for most of the match. If he doesn't, teach him why your Nair is so good. If you wanted, you could just sit back and Nair his Pikmin if he gets really campy, I suppose. Closing in is the real problem. Sonic is one of those characters where it becomes gospel for projectile users to let Sonic come to them. Olimar is no exception. On the defensive, for the most part, he can just throw out fsmash after fsmash or grab after grap walling your ground approach. That makes it a bit odd to use Spin Dash/Charge. From my experience, if you're willing to take some damage in the process, you can pressure him with numerous Spin Charges (mixed in with various attacks at times, of course). He'll shield sooner or later, to which you can just turn back around and jump cancel into an attack.
If Olimar likes to spam roll -> dsmash, be wary of it, but that's your small window of opportunity. I find you can get off a jump to his back and bair (or from the front if you've turned around) during this instance. Using bair period is pretty good during the entire fight.
****ing throws. Olimar's grab range is just extremely broken. And since Sonic pressure by running, Spin Dashing, or Spin Charging, he can wall your approach just by throwing out grabs, since they come out almost instantly after the previous one. If he throws you off the edge, he'll sit back a nice distance from the edge and start throwing out a fsmash wall. If you want to sit there too long, he can even grab you. Yes, he can grab you while you're ****ing hanging on the edge. If he predicts your ledgehop, you'll take a fair to the face. If you try to get up or get up attack, he'll just grab or fsmash you again. You definitely want to try and jump (not ledgehop) from the edge in most instances, making sure to see if he'll try and fair the ledgehop first. If you make it up, air dodge the usmash.
If you get him off the edge, it's almost a no brainer. Pressure him to come in from below, then grab the edge. The only way he's making it back is if he times his up B to sit him right above the edge. Make a note, that he CANNOT use up B to grab the ledge if it's occupied. I mean, if he times it correctly, he can possibly ledge spike, you, but that won't be a problem at decent percentages, and the fact of the matter is, he still isn't grabbing the god**** ledge. It's worth the damage to get that gimp.
Your overall best assets to this game are fair, bair, nair, and dash attack. Don't worry about taking him out from the top, it's much easier to aim for the blastlines, since you can still gimp if you don't kill. Fair is your insurance that you have more control over the air, and is once of your best approaches from a short hop. Bair is a cool move in the fact that when you land it, you're approaching from the front and attacking his back. This is good for Olimars who love to shield grab and gives you some breathing room and a chance to follow up with a dash attack or Spin Dash. Nair of course negates Pikmin Throw, which can cut down on damage. Dash attack is just there to mix up your approach, since Olimar basically forces you to approach from the air the majority of the time.
Now keep in mind, this view has been based off of the ONE Olimar I play. I will not call him out, but he basically sticks to an fsmash/grab wall, rolls, then dsmashes. Anything else he does are no-brainer type things, like usmashing/uairing when I'm above him. I am aware this may not be the general way most Olimars play, especially since the smasher I play pretty much neglects all his other good moves, like Nair, and his tilts. So if anything else, pay attention to the edgeguarding portion of my opinion of this match up.
And to stress it again, gimp this guy. He really can't **** with you in the air unless he's below you, and off-stage, that's where you want him if he hasn't hit the blastlines. Hold on to the edge, and don't fear getting hit by his upB.
pirateguru
Smash Apprentice
My disagreement with djbrownv statement on pikachu
Abusing the dash attack against pikachu is the worst thing to do cause if he times a dsmash just right you'll get hit. you decide to use a homing attack instead you'll get hit. Thunder is not what kills me against pikachu. It's his broken dsmash.
Shield grabs are great but pikachu has a lot of range and disjointed hitboxes so I don't really see this being effective if the player you go up against figures out that what your trying to do. cause your just pretty much being predictable and a predictable sonic is the worst kind.
One last thing I don't really know how you can say sonic can punish pikachu. I just don't see it. I'm gonna need some vids or something cause it's pretty much impossible with pikachu's lag less attacks on the ground maybe in the air but that's all i can see where this is effective.
Abusing the dash attack against pikachu is the worst thing to do cause if he times a dsmash just right you'll get hit. you decide to use a homing attack instead you'll get hit. Thunder is not what kills me against pikachu. It's his broken dsmash.
Shield grabs are great but pikachu has a lot of range and disjointed hitboxes so I don't really see this being effective if the player you go up against figures out that what your trying to do. cause your just pretty much being predictable and a predictable sonic is the worst kind.
One last thing I don't really know how you can say sonic can punish pikachu. I just don't see it. I'm gonna need some vids or something cause it's pretty much impossible with pikachu's lag less attacks on the ground maybe in the air but that's all i can see where this is effective.
KirbyandSonicrock14
Smash Ace
Good stuff,but can you please put u psome videos of your sonic? Becasue jufing by the way you talk about him,it seem like you have a crazy sonic.
BlueTerrorist
Smash Ace
Please turn your attention to here for a sec.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=166829
As for Olimar, it is mandatory to watch this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe0tjh1e6QU
I'll be updating match-ups later, right now I'm a bit busy.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=166829
As for Olimar, it is mandatory to watch this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe0tjh1e6QU
I'll be updating match-ups later, right now I'm a bit busy.
Note:
B-air can knock Snake off his Cypher.
D-air (must land on Cypher) can also hit Snake, but you take damage from Cypher while doing it.
Grenades explode in 3 seconds.
Browny
Smash Hater
Im not certain, but from 0% you can grab + pummel upthrow immediately into an upsmash against snake. free 29% to start a match. ive pulled it off a few times vs my brother but he doesnt understand DI to a very high degree
hummm
So I fought my first decent Snake lately. He wasn't campy, but he was a crazy close-range fighter. Here are a few things I picked up that that particular Snake did:
-U smash> U-tilt
his U-tilt has such a broken hitbox. It's like Lucario, but manlier. He knocks you into the mortar that he sent into the air.
Not sure what moves Sonic has that can break it. Then again, playing smart, you should just wait til the mortar hits the floor.
-Jab Spam
Beats most of Sonic's ground based attacks.
Sometimes a spindash/spincharge can break through it. Sometimes it clangs with it. Other times, you get hit :[
-F-tilt also has a Lucario-style hitbox.
It's like he inherited Falcon's knee and is somehow suppressing it.
The Snake player said to rely more on aerial moves, so I'm guessing Spinshot behind him would be okay, but above all, juggling moves should be good, since he said Snake's aerial game is lacking.
Agree? Disagree? moar tips? D:
So I fought my first decent Snake lately. He wasn't campy, but he was a crazy close-range fighter. Here are a few things I picked up that that particular Snake did:
-U smash> U-tilt
his U-tilt has such a broken hitbox. It's like Lucario, but manlier. He knocks you into the mortar that he sent into the air.
Not sure what moves Sonic has that can break it. Then again, playing smart, you should just wait til the mortar hits the floor.
-Jab Spam
Beats most of Sonic's ground based attacks.
Sometimes a spindash/spincharge can break through it. Sometimes it clangs with it. Other times, you get hit :[
-F-tilt also has a Lucario-style hitbox.
It's like he inherited Falcon's knee and is somehow suppressing it.
The Snake player said to rely more on aerial moves, so I'm guessing Spinshot behind him would be okay, but above all, juggling moves should be good, since he said Snake's aerial game is lacking.
Agree? Disagree? moar tips? D:
ummm the cargo stage spike can only be pulled off if ur a noob and dont wiggle free...
my cousin tried to pull thats hit on me all the time, and i would like wiggle free and stool hop his *** into oblivion lol
donkey is a peice of cake. spin dashign in general, into combos just pwns him.
he is just too big, its easy to hit him with just about anything. and his attacks are easy to dodge and punish.
my cousin tried to pull thats hit on me all the time, and i would like wiggle free and stool hop his *** into oblivion lol
donkey is a peice of cake. spin dashign in general, into combos just pwns him.
he is just too big, its easy to hit him with just about anything. and his attacks are easy to dodge and punish.
LuCKy
Smash Master
somebody asked me this.....
"Ive been using him as a main character, and been doing pretty well against my mates, but last friday my mate tried out wolf and liked what he played, so he vs'd me with wolf... and i got owned... it seems he has the timing down pat for sonics Dash attack, Homing attack and his running+a, and he continues to reflect every time i do this... i sometimes fake it and stop right infront of him and then attack, but this only works half the time... and if i did it more often he'd catch on...
Ive noticed Sonic is quite the aerial fighter, but this can be his downfall as he's extremely light he can get knocked up easily... and Wolf has some pretty decent aerial attacks...
Another thing ive noticed is, that with sonic its easy to Ledge-Watch, making sure he cant get back on, but if i down+a, and he up+B, his attack is stronger and in effect knock me away...
We normally play on Hyrule in the bottom section (most used level since SSBM) and just need some tips on how to even out the playing field...
Oh and i also got perfected in 1 match, my most shameful moment in SSB history... i could believe it... but i then vs'd him with Peach (who i play with for fun) and beat him... so maybe he's just used to my technique with sonic?
We'll be playing again on Friday, and will hopefully be able to record some matches and chuck them up here to give you a brief idea of whats going on..."
someone give me some answers for this guy lol i havn't played wolf at all with sonic and well i'm too lazy to write about brawl lol someone help :]
"Ive been using him as a main character, and been doing pretty well against my mates, but last friday my mate tried out wolf and liked what he played, so he vs'd me with wolf... and i got owned... it seems he has the timing down pat for sonics Dash attack, Homing attack and his running+a, and he continues to reflect every time i do this... i sometimes fake it and stop right infront of him and then attack, but this only works half the time... and if i did it more often he'd catch on...
Ive noticed Sonic is quite the aerial fighter, but this can be his downfall as he's extremely light he can get knocked up easily... and Wolf has some pretty decent aerial attacks...
Another thing ive noticed is, that with sonic its easy to Ledge-Watch, making sure he cant get back on, but if i down+a, and he up+B, his attack is stronger and in effect knock me away...
We normally play on Hyrule in the bottom section (most used level since SSBM) and just need some tips on how to even out the playing field...
Oh and i also got perfected in 1 match, my most shameful moment in SSB history... i could believe it... but i then vs'd him with Peach (who i play with for fun) and beat him... so maybe he's just used to my technique with sonic?
We'll be playing again on Friday, and will hopefully be able to record some matches and chuck them up here to give you a brief idea of whats going on..."
someone give me some answers for this guy lol i havn't played wolf at all with sonic and well i'm too lazy to write about brawl lol someone help :]
FrostByte
Smash Lord
@ Lucky: Tell him to camp and spam side taunt until they get bored of playing that stage.
@ Tenki: I think It pops him up high enough for a bair, or so low that he can hit the ground and tilt. If he shields, it it's a free Ftilt for him too. General rule in that matchup is never to get too close to Snake. It's not a good place to be unless you're forced into that position somehow in which case you jab as fast as you can.
@ Tenki: I think It pops him up high enough for a bair, or so low that he can hit the ground and tilt. If he shields, it it's a free Ftilt for him too. General rule in that matchup is never to get too close to Snake. It's not a good place to be unless you're forced into that position somehow in which case you jab as fast as you can.
TwinkleToes
Smash Lord
Dair should come out faster than wolf's up-b. The only reason he should be having any problems connecting is if Wolf comes in really low on the level, in which case it's easy to see that coming and use a different gimp like spring or a close-up aerial. It just sounds to me like the guy was trying to rely way too much on Sonic's noob attacks like his dash and spin dash attacks and has no real competency or skill (developed or otherwise) when it comes to the many other parts of Sonic's game.
For someone like Snake, I don't think it's a good idea to lose KB on your kill moves, since one flubbed kill move could mean a stock's worth of pain.
an early dash attack as in, you space it so it cancels/ends behind him - and in time for you to do a juggling/combo move.
if you've seen a Snake do the 'landmine' setup on FD where he throws two grenades over the floor, spaced out pretty evenly, you can use dash attack to grab the grenade closer to him. It's probably one of the best counters to Sonic's Spindash. If you can get him to stop throwing grenades, it opens up the path to spin dashing again, and spin dash combos are very welcome damage/juggles in that matchup.
Also, if you instill fear/expectation of a dash attack, you can start doing side-B roll/ shield cancels to screw around a bit.
._.; Either way, playing like that probably gave me the most control in a Sonic vs Snake match than I've ever had in the past lol.
It was against a decent, but not too hardcore Snake. I'm gonna try it out vs a better Snake player later on today.
[edit] Lucky's chainletter
also, for the guy who's reflecting everything- do a side-B shield cancel.
For someone who reacts on Sonic's limited sound effects / graphics, it's the equivalent of a barrel roll.
He said something like "stopping in front of him then attacking" - sounds like it's just shielding or screechstopping. If you do a shield cancelled side-B, you stop all momentum and open up the path for jabs and tilts.
what it has above normal shielding and screech stopping is the sound effect, and that short few frames where he gets into the side-B ball animation. If you're playing with sound, get him used to your dash attacks, then start mixing it with side-B's and side-B cancels.
[edit 2] Wolf
does Wolf's up B get cancelled by spring gimp?
[edit 3] DK
._.; which moves exactly are 'easy to punish'?
DK's tilts far outrange and outprioritize Sonic, and if you airdodge, or roll, he gets to use them again. His down-B has a surprisingly large range in front of him (not so much behind him), and his b-air comes out quickly as an edgeguard. If you have an allisbrawl acct, try playing against axelol (find him in the chatrooms at night sometimes) - he's the first/best DK I played against.
an early dash attack as in, you space it so it cancels/ends behind him - and in time for you to do a juggling/combo move.
if you've seen a Snake do the 'landmine' setup on FD where he throws two grenades over the floor, spaced out pretty evenly, you can use dash attack to grab the grenade closer to him. It's probably one of the best counters to Sonic's Spindash. If you can get him to stop throwing grenades, it opens up the path to spin dashing again, and spin dash combos are very welcome damage/juggles in that matchup.
Also, if you instill fear/expectation of a dash attack, you can start doing side-B roll/ shield cancels to screw around a bit.
._.; Either way, playing like that probably gave me the most control in a Sonic vs Snake match than I've ever had in the past lol.
It was against a decent, but not too hardcore Snake. I'm gonna try it out vs a better Snake player later on today.
[edit] Lucky's chainletter
also, for the guy who's reflecting everything- do a side-B shield cancel.
For someone who reacts on Sonic's limited sound effects / graphics, it's the equivalent of a barrel roll.
He said something like "stopping in front of him then attacking" - sounds like it's just shielding or screechstopping. If you do a shield cancelled side-B, you stop all momentum and open up the path for jabs and tilts.
what it has above normal shielding and screech stopping is the sound effect, and that short few frames where he gets into the side-B ball animation. If you're playing with sound, get him used to your dash attacks, then start mixing it with side-B's and side-B cancels.
[edit 2] Wolf
does Wolf's up B get cancelled by spring gimp?
[edit 3] DK
._.; which moves exactly are 'easy to punish'?
DK's tilts far outrange and outprioritize Sonic, and if you airdodge, or roll, he gets to use them again. His down-B has a surprisingly large range in front of him (not so much behind him), and his b-air comes out quickly as an edgeguard. If you have an allisbrawl acct, try playing against axelol (find him in the chatrooms at night sometimes) - he's the first/best DK I played against.
@ Lucky, haha yea man... did you see my "sad story" thread? it outlined all my idea's on why i think wolf is an insane counter for sonic.
I have beaten wolfs before with sonic, but its not easy. One thing is for sure, you will have to change your play style a lot to fight wolf because wolf pwnz the ground.
homing attack works really good against wolf, i spammed it A LOT and racked up 60% on him, but it's diminishing returns are really bad. For it to be most effective, be right between his fsmash and usmash range at a 45 degree angle from wolf.
other than that i would say... stay above him, and spring whenever he is in range for dsmash/fsmash. and doodge his attacks and try to make use of the tiny post lag he has.
for killing, just get him off the side howevever necessary, his recovery is horrible and its possible to gimp him.
I have beaten wolfs before with sonic, but its not easy. One thing is for sure, you will have to change your play style a lot to fight wolf because wolf pwnz the ground.
homing attack works really good against wolf, i spammed it A LOT and racked up 60% on him, but it's diminishing returns are really bad. For it to be most effective, be right between his fsmash and usmash range at a 45 degree angle from wolf.
other than that i would say... stay above him, and spring whenever he is in range for dsmash/fsmash. and doodge his attacks and try to make use of the tiny post lag he has.
for killing, just get him off the side howevever necessary, his recovery is horrible and its possible to gimp him.
TwinkleToes
Smash Lord
Tenki, no his up-b goes right through the spring, but that lag period, as with the other space animals' up-b moves, is perfect for gimping and generally not too difficult to predict/exploit.
BlueTerrorist
Smash Ace
added Marth, Ike, and Diddy.
Thanks for the update, but I'm kinda questioning the Do/Don't format - at times it's not even a Do/Don't- more like a Pros/Cons, with focus on the Do's and Don'ts. But that's my personal opinion. it's k.
I'm still requesting a serious DK vs Sonic matchup. It still feels like he has the advantage since all his moves (again..) outprioritize and outrange Sonic's- and utilt, ftilt, b-air all have low delay so he can get around dodges at the tip of his range fairly well. On top of that, he's got weight similar to Ganondorf/Snake, and he's got the cargo stage spike of death if you're close to the edge, so getting him in a position to be b-throw'd off the edge is ... somewhat difficult.
Assuming that the DK (and not just the Sonic) can dodge and block competently, this matchup looks bad for Sonic :[
I'm still requesting a serious DK vs Sonic matchup. It still feels like he has the advantage since all his moves (again..) outprioritize and outrange Sonic's- and utilt, ftilt, b-air all have low delay so he can get around dodges at the tip of his range fairly well. On top of that, he's got weight similar to Ganondorf/Snake, and he's got the cargo stage spike of death if you're close to the edge, so getting him in a position to be b-throw'd off the edge is ... somewhat difficult.
Assuming that the DK (and not just the Sonic) can dodge and block competently, this matchup looks bad for Sonic :[
ROOOOY!
Smash Master
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Yeah, I believe Sonic against Donkey Kong is really quite bad for Sonic. Very good range + more than decent priority = bad for Sonic.
As for the Diddy Kong one...I'd say that's an equal. It all depends on the momentum of the game.
As for the Diddy Kong one...I'd say that's an equal. It all depends on the momentum of the game.
Umby
Smash Master
You should definitely be wary of edgeguarding Diddy. If he has to upB, that's fine, but most Diddy's will try to get in a Diddy Hump, which leaves no hope for you as he jumps off your head and you fall to your death.
In light of all the matchup threads lately:
bump.
Though, some of them are taking in better tips, since lots of people are contributing, instead of just one good post with alot of nice info.
Should we just take in stuff from those threads and post it here when they come up with good info?
bump.
Though, some of them are taking in better tips, since lots of people are contributing, instead of just one good post with alot of nice info.
Should we just take in stuff from those threads and post it here when they come up with good info?
KirbyandSonicrock14
Smash Ace
If it okay, can I do Sonic vs.ZSS?
Do's
She fast, but not faster than you.
Grimp the hoe!!!
Combos are your best friend
like always speed,grab, and blah blah blah
And don't forget your awesome air game.
Her fsmash sucks, and don't forget to grab
Don't
Her smashs aren't great, but dsmash, and upsmash scare me.
grabs by her are not friendly
out protiylize you, and has a good uair and dair just like you.
Final jugement:
Sonic has this oen in the bag, becasue with his speed, and with the use of mindgames thsi one should be easy for you. But remember grabs are not friendly, and will hurt you. And if I forgot anything please tell. i haven't play a lot of good ZSS. but jsut like Marth,Pit, and ZSS, she an easy win for me.
Do's
She fast, but not faster than you.
Grimp the hoe!!!
Combos are your best friend
like always speed,grab, and blah blah blah
And don't forget your awesome air game.
Her fsmash sucks, and don't forget to grab
Don't
Her smashs aren't great, but dsmash, and upsmash scare me.
grabs by her are not friendly
out protiylize you, and has a good uair and dair just like you.
Final jugement:
Sonic has this oen in the bag, becasue with his speed, and with the use of mindgames thsi one should be easy for you. But remember grabs are not friendly, and will hurt you. And if I forgot anything please tell. i haven't play a lot of good ZSS. but jsut like Marth,Pit, and ZSS, she an easy win for me.
Umby
Smash Master
Please just tell me you've been trolling for the past two months.
Browny
Smash Hater
*sigh*
such an embarrasment for all us march 08'ers lol
such an embarrasment for all us march 08'ers lol
TwinkleToes
Smash Lord
Dude, whatever. All that post needs is some grammatical editing, some reorganization, and some information that's not blatantly obvious.
BlueTerrorist
Smash Ace
Sure I mean it IS a match up thread
.You know, I think it's time for this to get stickied
.Stay tuned for a big update today.
Terios the Hedgehog
Smash Hero
So..... a complete overhaul?
TwinkleToes
Smash Lord
That was the joke, Terios. That was the joke.
I have an idea that could revolutionize the matchup thread. Maybe.Sure I mean it IS a match up thread
You know, I think it's time for this to get stickied
Stay tuned for a big update today.
If people fight certain matchups, there are certain moves that we can find that Sonic can outprioritize with certain attacks, or are easily punished.
Some examples:
-Ganondorf Aerial Down-B gets defeated/outprioritized by Sonic's dsmash(!?!), as strange as it sounds.
-MK jab gets defeated by spindash.
-F-tilt outranges/can counter Marth's F-smash
-Snake can be knocked off Cypher in midair by: N/Bair, Homing Attack
If people can put down moves and weaknesses like that, then not only do we get matchup / playstyle tips in general, but we can even approach or bait certain attacks with confidence.