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Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

Teczer0

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Sheik vs Jigglypuff ^_^

Sheik vs Jiggs is a weird match up to say the least.

A reminder not to go for too many grabs. They can be helpful if you get them but going for too many = getting crouched then rested. Same goes for her Dash attack don't do it too often. Tbh I stay away from dash attacks period in this match up.

At lower percents the game is to tack on percent. Use needles A LOT. Don't approach jiggs often or at all. Stay safe and keep your space and take advantage that you have projectiles while jiggs doesn't.

At low percents I camp my shield a lot if I'm not throwing needles. Jigglypuff is almost always going to come by air, her run is horrifyingly slow. Then it depends on what happens.

If jiggs is floating near you (Like around sheik's head) do a N-air oos (Don't use this tactic at too low percents, they may be able to hit you if you do it at like 0 wait till about 20% to use it). It'll hit fast then you can run away with the nair.

If they seem to be running away or just "floating" near your shield just WD OOS ftilt into something. Or if you are confident you can hit it, a f-air is ideal since the knockback makes it very easy for you to run away afterwards.

Remember the point is to tack on dmg. As long as you can add percent you're fine.

If you feel like you need space and want to run away use b-airs. Its range is huge and you should be far enough from jigglypuff where you can just simply run away. Or you can WD back and run too.

This strategy is okay for mid percents (50-75ish) too just make sure you don't do unnecessary things. One hit is fine.

Once they get to around 60-70ish area start to abuse your crouching more. Your crouch is really low so Jiggs's WoP isn't as useful. D-tilt allows you to very easily set up for a up-air for the kill. CCing a b-air to get a dtilt isn't a bad idea if you are at low enough percents.

I usually crouch then as I see my opponent running quickly WD then D-tilt hoping it hits. If it doesn't I run away.

This usually works for stages with small/normal ceilings.

Sometimes though its very difficult to always catch a dtilt upair. Especially if your opponent is like Darc who isn't dumb and is eventually going to catch on. *shakes fist out of <3*

Unfortunately if you drag jigglypuff to percent you cannot d-tilt upair its going to be hard.

You have to catch random hits and jigglypuff can live most of your aerials if you hit them.

So camping shields is usually my choice at this point. If jigglypuff messes up and hits your shield wrong or is caught sleeping you can hit them with some aerial to send them off the stage.

Then you can catch them off the stage, sounds risky at first but you have to know what to look for.

One thing to look for is Pound. Jigglypuffs instinctively use it to help them recover. If you see a jiggs use it kinda close off the stage just run off fast fall double jump fair them. There is a decent amount of cool down for you to go and do this.

The other one is a little more risky and you have to use your best judgement on it. When jigglypuff gets very close to the stage most of time the just float at the edge as they try to grab it. If you are fast enough you can fall really fast and come back up to the stage with a nair to hit them off. They lose whatever jumps they used and will probably be forced to use pound. Or they get stage spiked ^_^. Or they tech it... but you won't be in major danger so *shrugs*.

Like soap said upsmash is pretty good for jigglypuffs expecting to just catch CC rests all day. At semi mid percents it makes the jigglypuff fall down and unable to rest you.

CC grabs are VERY good if you can get them. They let you get a good amount of percents and can kill jigglypuffs at percents that dtilt upair can't kill.

Upsmash OOS is good too if you think your opponent is going to bair,fair, nair through your shield.

Reminder too - Watch out when your shield gets too small. Try to run away if it happens to regenerate your shield. If it gets too low watch out for empty jumps into Fsmash. Its deceptive and has a bigger hitbox then you think it does. And if you get hit it hits REALLY hard so watch out.
 

DtJ Jungle

Check out my character in #GranblueFantasy
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just be really gay

Rena scares the **** out of me Tec0.

Rika is too cute

Ni Pah!

wtf does that mean anyway...
 

soap

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So I'm curious about the Sheik matchup vs. Jiggs. I know it's supposed to be favorable, but I've always had particular trouble with Jigglypuff regardless of my character choice. There's no discussion on Jiggs in the OP, nor in Brickman's matchups guide. I skimmed the thread (read: ctrl+F), and only found these posts with advice on Jiggs.




This is all good, but I'm curious if P's post is a little dated or if the matchup is still the same. I'm sure the matchup is still gay, and best played defensively with needles and bairs, but is there anything new for either side that makes it easier/harder for Sheik? Thanks.
i get tons of grabs on jiggs

i think its worth the random stock once in a while u lose if u mess up to keep them scared to shield.

rest of the time u just dsmash/usmash and it counters crouch/sidestep

usmash out of shield ***** so hard in this matchup, i cant figure out why it works but i always get kills off tippered usmashes out of shield after a pound
 

Vanill4

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Actually I played a few jigglypuffs (Actually only two really) and I think I can offer you some advice ^_^.

Just gimme a moment cuz I'm skimming through stuff and I just moved back into my dorm room :(.

*Reserved for my Sheik vs Jigglypuff view or whatever you wanna call it ^_^*
Cool, I look forward to it. Thanks.

just be really gay
I try, it's just easier for me against other characters. :ohwell:

EDIT: Thanks soap, I'll try to use usmash more/better.
 

Vanill4

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There I think I hit everything.

If you have questions please feel free to ask ^_^.
Excellent post, thanks Teczero. Read through it and I'm gonna try to apply a lot of it to my game next time I play Jiggs.

But I do have a question, then. What kind of stages do you take a Jigglypuff to? Your post makes it seem like a lot of space on stage helps to run away/needle camp, but obviously Jiggs doesn't die at really big stages (FD, DL64). I guess Pokemon Stadium gives you a fair amount of room and a low ceiling, as well as Corneria from the CP stages.

Also, for stage striking, Mute City seems the obvious choice, but I personally wouldn't mind going Peach v. Jiggs there. So I guess Dreamland would be a good strike for me, since it's a neutral also?
 

Teczer0

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Its really fine to take her anywhere with sheik.

YS does make it a little harder to run but you can still run on top of platforms and run around them.

Platform camping is pretty effective against her.

Stadium is probably the best stage neutral wise to take her to.

Its big as hell and ceiling is pretty low.

I'd strike DL64/YS/FoD/FD and Ban Mute City. Depending on your preferences of course.
 

soap

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u word everything as if ur running for your life against jiggs.

u kinda camp bair and stuff, but after a hit it gives u a brawl-esque opening where u chase, then wait for a miss then run up and dsmash their crouch, or once in a while grab their shield.

hit and run takes too long and just leaves more time for something gay to happen.

apply a lil more pressure and **** em quick.

just my preferences though.
 

Teczer0

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u word everything as if ur running for your life against jiggs.

u kinda camp bair and stuff, but after a hit it gives u a brawl-esque opening where u chase, then wait for a miss then run up and dsmash their crouch, or once in a while grab their shield.

hit and run takes too long and just leaves more time for something gay to happen.

apply a lil more pressure and **** em quick.

just my preferences though.
*shrugs*

I like to play it safe vs jiggs cuz her weight and fall speed throws me off.

I do go for riskier things here and there but not often.

In tournament though, I played Darc almost exactly like this :bee:.
 

Vanill4

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Its really fine to take her anywhere with sheik.

YS does make it a little harder to run but you can still run on top of platforms and run around them.

Platform camping is pretty effective against her.

Stadium is probably the best stage neutral wise to take her to.

Its big as hell and ceiling is pretty low.

I'd strike DL64/YS/FoD/FD and Ban Mute City. Depending on your preferences of course.
Okay, cool. Thanks.

u word everything as if ur running for your life against jiggs.

u kinda camp bair and stuff, but after a hit it gives u a brawl-esque opening where u chase, then wait for a miss then run up and dsmash their crouch, or once in a while grab their shield.

hit and run takes too long and just leaves more time for something gay to happen.

apply a lil more pressure and **** em quick.

just my preferences though.
Yeah, I can see how I came off like that. It's not that I'm running away all the time; it's just that I want to have room to run if I need to reset spacing, charge needles, whatever. I'd tend to treat the matchup defensively for the most part, though I should improve on punishing as well.
 

Teczer0

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u word everything as if ur running for your life against jiggs.

u kinda camp bair and stuff, but after a hit it gives u a brawl-esque opening where u chase, then wait for a miss then run up and dsmash their crouch, or once in a while grab their shield.

hit and run takes too long and just leaves more time for something gay to happen.

apply a lil more pressure and **** em quick.

just my preferences though.
I thought this was toward me.... oops?

<3


just be really gay

Rena scares the **** out of me Tec0.

Rika is too cute

Ni Pah!

wtf does that mean anyway...


Its not like Rena is a hazzard or anything =D.
 

#HBC | Mac

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in the falco vs sheik matchup is there a way for the falco to get around: b/fthrow near the edge then the sheik gimping by either drop down double jump nairing the illusion and/or drop down DJ fairing the upB?
 

Teczer0

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Yea there are tons of ways actually.

Most of the sheik gimps are situational really, because for instance drop down double jump Nair really only stops sweetspotted illusions or maybe drop down and try to regrab edge.

If you go far enough sheik may not be able to hit your fire fast enough, then you angle the fire up and you can get away.

There are a lot of ways.
 

Oracle

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Probably a noob question, but why the nair? I usually use the fair, as it is faster and ends quicker.
 

Tero.

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About the Jigglypuff matchup:

Grabs RAAAPPEEE in this matchup, remember one grab is always a free aerial, so you grab jiggz at like 90% on ys = jiggz dead

Jiggs players are going to camp in their sheild alot, so just grab them.

Needles are gay as hell, you can edgeguard with needles, spam needles, get grabs from needles, etc.

Make sure you always finish jiggs at like 100% or lower depending on the stage.

possible options to finish them:
- fair
- grab to fair
- uair
- grab to uair
- grab to uair/fair
- jab to uair/fair
- jab to usmash
- punish their ****in pound with freakin fair
- did i mention grab to uair/fair ?

basically what jiggs will try to do against you:
- utilt rest
- rest oos
- punish DA with rest
- punish bad spacing with rest
- eg to edgehog to rest
- utilt rest
- camp bairs like hell
- uair -> utilt -> rest

Play safely and don't let them rest you, punish bair camping with needles/bair, do grabs and stuff, then you'll be fine

belive me, i've mained jigglypuff for like 2 years
 

KirbyKaze

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When fighting Jiggs I find running at them with Nair when they're floating around doing Bair to be somewhat effective. Just time the Nair in between her Bairs and you're golden. You can also do this with Bair, and it's much safer that way, because of range and stuff. But I love my Nair. Also, falling on airborne Jiggs with weak Nair often leads to Fair, Uair, or more Nair. If they like to Nair I do Nairs over them and them and then get the free combo because I'm cool like that.

But it would probably be safer to chuck needles or something.

Also, against Puff, be prepared to do nothing for a while.

I like to Jab airborne Jiggs a lot because it makes them cringe and not sure what to do next so then I run forward and Nair them. Or Uair. Or Fair. Lots of stuff. Jab is actually good vs Puff because she spends so much time trolling in the air.

I also shield a lot and WD back OoS turn around SH Bair if she floats towards me. And if she approaches with that crouching Purin hidden gayness stuff I do D-smash.

But none of this actually works, so don't try it.
 

DtJ Jungle

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No, that was against GA Wes.

I did a lot better against him (even though he ended up beating my ***).

Smooth Criminal
oh...hm i swear one of your matches was on the live stream though

you and dop?


dunno.


crouching purin hidden rest ftl
 

KirbyKaze

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Nurgle.

So I've been trying to figure out why my Nair often loses to Firefox, trades, etc. Because I'm ******** and think her Nair is super ridiculously good. Just with really obscure priority.

Then I gave up on figuring it out on my own research and looked into the magic of Seanson's hitbox system.

There I found that Sheik's Nair, which comes out frame 3, has its super priority on frame 4. Seriously, that hitbox on the back end of the Nair sticks out really low. From there, it fattens slightly at a slight vertical distance difference and then begins to subside from frame 6 - 30. By about frame 14 it's lost its monster priority almost entirely, for reference.

So.

The hitbox is out from 3 - 30.

I think in order to have weak Nair combo for **** gimping action if you want to explore Nair as much as I do (you probably don't) you have to hit with it around from 4-10. Any later (or earlier, for that matter) and we get nasty things like Firefox trading with it and that's no good at all.

I think Nair has a lot of potential for gimps that are otherwise awkward with Bair, notably because Bair never really extends as low as her Nair does in any circumstances, and it never has the same monster priority in the lower leg either. This is relevant for spacies who are recovering when you don't have the time or ability to grab the edge for whatever reason... they might be Firefoxing there with an active hitbox, for instance, close enough to the lip where your needles can't hit them (this happens a lot ~___~) and be great at squeezing.

I never like fighting a squeeze by trying to wait it out for several reasons. SHing off and weak Nairing them with the back (or front, but I'm focusing on the back end right now) end of Nair looks to be a promising way of stuffing that BS.

Obviously there are a million and one ways of edgeguarding when they're in a position where Bair won't hit. Personally I despise onstage edgeguarding with Sheik because I think she's better offstage or on the ledge. This is one strat I'm working on (that involves my favourite move) that seems to be effectual vs those situations where Bair and needles simply won't work and there isn't enough time to grab the edge or grabbing the edge is unavailable.

Anyone have any thoughts? Or should I trudge off to my smash lab and sulk.
 
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