Should Metaknight be Banned? ***Take 3***

[Brinzy]

That was 2v2 for the debate. Livestream DEBATE! Read the post. It's a MESSAGEEEEEEEE BOOOOARD.

Read the ****ing message

Based off of what I'm seeing right now, you'll be starved of *****es if you were taken up by that from the SBR.

 

[Ru-fi-o]

If mk was unbeatable, m2k would have 2/3-0'd everyone at whobo that wasn't MK. DSF? Farttime?

 

[Turbo Ether]

Other fighting games have communities that pale in comparison to the smash community.

Yeah, in size. Of course a larger community will have access to more resources. The smash community is huge, largely because it's so cool getting to battle it out with your favorite Nintendo character!!!!!!1111!11!

 

[Dark.Pch]

I live in his region. It'd be in person.

Dark Peach, you can OVERCOME Meta, right? 50$?

You seriously don't get it do you. This crap is not about money. You swing matches around for money does not make you look cute.

You over here telling me I should be around to face meta or w/e in tournaments cause people like YOU say they are garbage. You don't play characters that I do so you clearly dont know 2 things about them

"But I **** them in tournaments, they can't beat my character that I play"

So what? if that was the case, the hell are these boards for, the hell is learning matches with our mains for, to run and hide behind a counterpick high tier? Sorry but I will not sit here and let high tiers tell me how to freaking play this game or tell who who the hell to use and my chances. I decided wether I win or not. I decided who can beat who with my character. How do I decided? my mindset and working my azz off. Again **** takes time. me excepting things take time and actually doing the best I can "Not the character, me"

"To get it right you have to get it wrong first" A wise kid told me this.

Look at mike G in melee. back thing people ****ted on Peach. then Mike G game along with Peach and did **** no one expected. He did not let this BS you bring up get to him. Dude was the creator and father of Peach in melee.

You can call my character garbage all you want, you can win all the case you wont. you can be so proud of your self, fell like you are somebody or be an arrogant tool cause you play a high tier or meta. But nor you or anyone as arrogant as you will EVER in thier life make me think otherwise on wtf I can do with my main.


So money is your only defense. this is how you stand out and show off? I'm not about to put 50 for reason that I am making and your arrogant claims. I'll do it for 5 or maybe ten. This be the only way to get a serious match out of you. and it is not about me winning or loseing to you. not what I am doing it for. But to give you a lil lesson and what the deal is and looking on the mindset that arrogant people like you corrupt. Something that fawks people up from actually stepping it up.

What is the next tourny you will be in if you even live near me?

 

[Ru-fi-o]

Based off of what I'm seeing right now, you'll be starved of *****es if you were taken up by that from the SBR.

I don't see them approaching me with it. Any two people versus me and the partner of my choosing. 50$ per person.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Were't you banned Bob? Stop making accounts.

 

[Ru-fi-o]

Yeah, in size. Of course a larger community will have access to more resources. The smash community is huge, largely because it's so cool getting to battle it out with your favorite Nintendo character!!!!!!1111!11!

Get so *****. LMAO

You seriously don't get it do you. This crap is not about money. You swing matches around for money does not make you look cute.

You over here telling me I should be around to face meta or w/e in tournaments cause people like YOU say they are garbage. You don't play characters that I do so you clearly dont know 2 things about them

"But I **** them in tournaments, they can't beat my character that I play"

So what? if that was the case, the hell are these boards for, the hell is learning matches with our mains for, to run and hide behind a counterpick high tier? Sorry but I will not sit here and let high tiers tell me how to freaking play this game or tell who who the hell to use and my chances. I decided wether I win or not. I decided who can beat who with my character. How do I decided? my mindset and working my azz off. Again **** takes time. me excepting things take time and actually doing the best I can "Not the character, me"

"To get it right you have to get it wrong first" A wise kid told me this.

Look at mike G in melee. back thing people ****ted on Peach. then Mike G game along with Peach and did **** no one expected. He did not let this BS you bring up get to him. Dude was the creator and father of Peach in melee.

You can call my character garbage all you want, you can win all the case you wont. you can be so proud of your self, fell like you are somebody or be an arrogant tool cause you play a high tier or meta. But nor you or anyone as arrogant as you will EVER in thier life make me think otherwise on wtf I can do with my main.


So money is your only defense. this is how you stand out and show off? I'm not about to put 50 for reason that I am making and your arrogant claims. I'll do it for 5 or maybe ten. This be the only way to get a serious match out of you. and it is not about me winning or loseing to you. not what I am doing it for. But to give you a lil lesson and what the deal is and looking on the mindset that arrogant people like you corrupt. Something that fawks people up from actually stepping it up.

What is the next tourny you will be in if you even live near me?

You haven't the slightest idea what you're getting yourself into.

I'll be at Apex/

 

[Dark.Pch]

Get so *****. LMAO


You haven't the slightest idea what you're getting yourself into.

You really think I don't know who you are......

No one or any character puts fear in me, NONE.

 

[GodAtHand]

:D good ****. Also, I hope you're anti-ban, cause you just hurt the cause.

I'm "not sure"

I'm just kinda saying whatever pops into my head lol.

 

[Remzi]

As of right now, no. MK has favorable matchups on most of the cast, but has close matchups with most of the higher tier characters. WHOBO was ridiculous, but there is still potential for change within the metagame. As it stands, it's likely that MK will continue to dominate and will warrant a ban in the near future.

My main point is that we should wait, yes he is gay and everyone hates him, but another two seasons or so to confirm that he does indeed overcentralize the game would do more good then bad.

 

[BOB SAGET]

1 reason y MK wins most tournaments is becasue the amount of people who use him. people see he's M2Ks main and they copy him. they see hes to tier and they use MK. unlike some MK mainers. i didnt know about the tier list when i started to use MK. the reason y MK is considered the best is becasue his metagame is developed.

 

[SSJ5Goku8932]

Now I should really look foward to Apex. .

I think we should maybe ban Metaknights from SOME tourneys for a while.
That way we can develop other people's at a faster rate metagames, and also let the MK's do there thing.

 

[Ru-fi-o]

Look at Evo2008. Chun-li took 7 of 8. She's not even the best in the game in match up points.

 

[ShadowLink84]

1 reason y MK wins most tournaments is becasue the amount of people who use him. people see he's M2Ks main and they copy him. they see hes to tier and they use MK. unlike some MK mainers. i didnt know about the tier list when i started to use MK. the reason y MK is considered the best is becasue his metagame is developed.

If you suck *** you will lose.

A bad Akuma player will get ***** by a great Balrog player.

 

[Brinzy]

All of us as players have to start from somewhere including those who are currently at the top, and false...you always have a choice to do something else. I will revert to my previous point about top players "walking the walk" because in order to get to the top that is exactly what you have to do, even though success is not a guaranteed result. It is a gamble, but the top players took action and LEARNED the matchups (what they can exploit and look out for in certain matchups) instead of fiddling so much with all of the predetermined matchup numbers and "X character most likely beats Y character because of this" scenarios.
This is because when a match is going on, it's only about the here and now, not anything that is statistically predetermined. The furthest one can progress with any sort of predetermination is if a character is clearly and visually outclassed by another, such as MK clearly being a better character than C. Falcon; I'm sure you don't need any numbers to determine that on your own.


As for the second half of your post, well...I'll name one for you, Captain Falcon, heck let's go with all of D-G tier while we're at it. What I am saying is that MK is clearly better than all of these characters. Any player with common sense and enough experience with the game will be able to see that for himself, thus it's visual clarity. You don't need any numbers to prove his dominance over said characters. One could argue that matchup numbers are merely used to guage the difficulty between matchups, but aren't the difficulty of matchups subjective to the individual player? Wouldn't that make any predetermined matchup numbers irrelevant to the actual match or just plain inaccurate at the very least?

This is why I don't put so much faith into matchup numbers, but rather in the player's knowledge in the actual match at hand.

When I say I "can't do something", I don't mean that I can't learn by playing people. I mean that I can't do this because there is nobody around me who plays smash on such a level and I do not have a car. The first part of your response, while it is true, was made with a misunderstanding, potentially because I wasn't clear.

And yes, while MK is obviously better than those characters, the point originally made is that the numbers do not matter unless it is obvious that one character is dominant over the other. Correct me if I'm wrong and that wasn't the idea you were conveying earlier. I understood your post to say that the numbers do not matter unless you're in a clear situation such as that, but now you're saying that it's down to the individual player, so I don't know if you're making a change in your argument or if I'm misreading or what.

Bottom line: match-up numbers, if they don't matter overall, should not matter in the case of MK.

I would go back to re-read what you said to make sure I got what you're saying, but I'm on a ****ty connection and I don't remember where it was.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Now I should really look foward to Apex. .

I think we should maybe ban Metaknights from SOME tourneys for a while.
That way we can develop other people's metagames, and also let the MK's do there thing.

Can we please stop living in this fantasy land where MK is the reason why crappy characters have supposedly under developed meta games. I'll say it again, no one who actually does well with said crappy characters believe this...right?

 

[Dark.Pch]

1 reason y MK wins most tournaments is becasue the amount of people who use him. people see he's M2Ks main and they copy him. they see hes to tier and they use MK. unlike some MK mainers. i didnt know about the tier list when i started to use MK. the reason y MK is considered the best is becasue his metagame is developed.

I can name about 10 characters who have more of a metagame then him. There is not much to meta knight. Facts faxts. How many of you people plain to BS your mains (meta)?

And wasnt you banned.

 

[BOB SAGET]

If you suck *** you will lose.

A bad Akuma player will get ***** by a great Balrog player.

u r correct its not the character who decides who wins but its the player.

 

[Excellence]

Races Tournament in So-cal.

60 people entered.

1st: Tyrant (MK)
2nd: Fiction (Wario)
3rd: MikeHAZE (Marth)
4th: DSF (MK)
5th: DEHF (Falco)
5th: Futile (Wario)
7th: FlyAlmanita: (Ice Climbers)

I don't know if it helps my cause that MK should be banned.
It actually doesn't.

But what do you make of this ranking? It was a pretty big tournament.

How old is this list of character placing?

unlike other games a lot of people take this one more sreious than others

Oh my god, you agree too!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?! No gamez iz az competitive az Zmazh iz!

 

[Emblem Lord]

LOL. It's ****ing smash. Everyone and their mom is playing it. Of course the community will be bigger.

 

[Ulevo]

This is quite the entertainment. I come online to this eye sore to retrieve a message, and here I come across this again.

See, there are so many comments in this thread I would normally point out as unparalleled stupidity, but I have better things to do with my life as opposed to the majority.

However, I'll spell out something I'm sure most of you can comprehend.

I myself adamantly defended Meta Knight during the first debate over this same topic for many reasons already previous thrown out there in this cesspool of nonsense. I believed that logic pointed to Meta Knight being a powerful character, yet unworthy of a ban.

Now look at the facts before you. Here we are, a year later. Five months I believe after the second debate over this topic. We not only continue to have this same problem, but it has become increasingly worse and more apparent now than ever. Meta Knights dominance has not dropped, and the community at large has not changed their thoughts at all. If anything, his dominance has increased by both numerically and with performance, and the community is shifting slowly to one side of the argument. I cannot say for certain whether or not Meta Knight at the time I argued for him in debate was worthy of a ban, but now even people like myself, when looking at this situation, have to bite my tongue and accept the truth.

Or, to be short. This is the THIRD time this discussion has had to be addressed by the SBR to the public. That is more than enough of an indication that there is a very big problem here. Enough is enough.

Back to reality.

EDIT: AH HA! I come back briefly after quitting Brawl, and who do I find above my post other than someone else who left for better. How's SFIV treating you El? Do me a favour and play BlazBlue when it comes out.

 

[Excellence]

u r correct its not the character who decides who wins but its the player.

I'm not the respective best at my character but I can **** near guarentee I could destroy the world's greatest Ganondorf with my Olimar. Why? Because the match-up is rated at ****ing 95-5 in Olimar's favor.

 

[BentoBox]

Other fighting games have communities that pale in comparison to the smash community.

I'm sorry, what?

 

[Palpi]

I think if there are characters that can and do beat metaknight there is no reason to ban him at all.

 

[SSJ5Goku8932]

Can we please stop living in this fantasy land where MK is the reason why crappy characters have supposedly under developed meta games. I'll say it again, no one who actually does well with said crappy characters believe this...right?

Well, I did not say that they had underdeveloped metagames. Its just that MK's is very evolved compared to them.

I realize that MK is probaly not the reason, so I'll say I am sorry for making it seem like it.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

How the heck has BOB SAGET's second account lasted so long? If not third, I know he had the 6 points (banned) like, at the beginning of the month.

Seriously: ban the obviously spamming troll already, include IP ban this time. If that isn't the problem, ban him on site.

 

[Turbo Ether]

LOL. It's ****ing smash. Everyone and their mom is playing it. Of course the community will be bigger.

Jun the Swan: "Bingo!"

 

[Ru-fi-o]

Dark.pch should have a bedtime. I'm thinking an hour ago

 

[|RK|]

No... stop being whiners...

Another thing... think about what this decision would do to this community... once we ban one character, think of the next games... and there are many who would quit Smash... are you all REALLY that WEAK? Try harder and stop whining. Without setbacks, progress cannot exist.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Sup Ulevo.

Went to my first SF4 tourney last Tuesday. Beat some good players and took second. I love that game.

 

[xDD-Master]

If every of MKs move would be One Hit KO he WOULD be beatable (In Theory... dont get hit)

But...
...if you hit MK and he wouldnt get any % then he would be unbeatable.

Sure MK is not unbeatable and he is not a safety win.

It's just that you can go MK-all-the-day and you dont have to fear anything.

If you go all Snake, then you might fight a DDD and this isnt funny. Now you could go Falco... or MK (A second character)

You choose MK because you know he also beats Falco, so you have two bad match-ups away and also one match-up even (MK Ditto)

Now you begin to train him and you notice that you do well with him, also in other Match-Ups.

Someday you will just forget Snake, because you dont need him anymore.

This is how it is.

I was also at the point where I thought about dropping Snake and only playing MK, but I decided to stay at Snake and I just have to learn to Fight against DDD and others.

 

[ShadowLink84]

u r correct its not the character who decides who wins but its the player.

Not always
Akuma in SF2 ***** everyone and was later banned.


my point was, no matter how good the character may be, if you suck you lose.
So if all these people main MK, the will lose if they suck.

 

[Excellence]

People in this thread are not at a clear consesus as to why characters need to be banned from a game. Maybe we should refocus this thread or our arguments to explain that to those who don't understand, first.

 

[Max Ketchum]

Pretty sure he's not a troll, he's just ****ing stupid.

 

[tmntrules2003]

i mean i know im gonna get ***** by a good MK player but i dont care i mean even in a tournament everyone picks there char and thats who they play regardless yeah MK is S tier and some people pick him because of that but oh well they gotta take the time to learn him before they get really good anyways so keep him f it.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Well, I did not say that they had underdeveloped metagames. Its just that MK's is very evolved compared to them.

I realize that MK is probaly not the reason, so I'll say I am sorry for making it seem like it.

He's stopping no one's metagame, thus he doesn't need a temp ban, or any kind of limit. This whole 'let someone's metagame catch up' stuff is absolute bull ****. If one person studies harder than another, do we wait for the other person to catch up for the big test?



...in case you didn't know, the answer was nuuuuuu.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Also..about the whole...MK is more evolved due to lots of people playing him,

I could seriously argue that Marth's metagame has evolved further then any other character. Doesn't change the fact that MK DESTROYS Marth.

A characters tools decides how good they are. Nothing more.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Pretty sure he's not a troll, he's just ****ing stupid.

When you start ban dodging, you are obviously a troll.

Seriously, why do people keep thinking he's NOT a troll? I went through this the first time he was banned. -_- Obvious troll is obvious, ban him.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Also..about the whole...MK is more evolved due to lots of people playing him,

I could seriously argue that Marth's metagame has evolved further then any other character. Doesn't change the fact that MK DESTROYS Marth.

A characters tools decides how good they are. Nothing more.

Quoted for great justice

 

[Max Ketchum]

If MK is banned temporarily so the other characters can develop their metagames (LOL.), wouldn't that be a little stupid since there's no more matchup practice available, meaning that when MK is unbanned, they'll get ***** harder than before?