SINGLES Lucario Match-Ups and Directory! Mario will brb saving a princess

[Pitbuller26]

I still feel as though this matchup is 55:45.

 

[iDeo]

Snake has too many options and abilities that makes it be 60:40. Tilts, kill power, tech chase, mine games, camping give snake the advantage all the way in this fight.

 

[Steam]

Luc is rly hard to tech chase due to quick get ups.

We can also camp him depending on the stage.

Plus once we get him in the air snake gets the ****

 

[Zucco]

I believe its 4:6 because even though we have tools to fight him, we have to work WAY harder than he has to.

 

[Fizzle_Boy]

Looky what I found. These should be of some use.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfU3lZ18TBM Game 1 Trela vs Razer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQp6ZVjm89A&feature=related Game 2 Trela vs Razer

 

[Zucco]

Needs moar punishing landing lag with Auraspheres. On FD thats like our best tool, since Snake HAS to land and cant really avoid it. His only option to avoid AS's is a wave bounce, but even that is readable.

 

[Browny]

Almost perfect AS use... but using aura sphere while landing is rarely ever worth the risk and it showed :/

 

[Browny]

Almost perfect AS use... but using aura sphere while landing is rarely ever worth the risk and it showed :/

 

[ShippoFoxFire]

Snakes love spotdoding a lot, not saying you should always expect one, but take it slow, don't rush everything. If they are falling, sort of waiver to in front on them expecting the b-reversal and the uair would be able to it snake if he does it or not if you are right below-in front of him

 

[iDeo]

Snakes love spotdoding a lot, not saying you should always expect one, but take it slow, don't rush everything. If they are falling, sort of waiver to in front on them expecting the b-reversal and the uair would be able to it snake if he does it or not if you are right below-in front of him

agreed. u have to grab Snake a lot. but that's the fun part about it. if u predict that spot dodge u'll have other options to punish it. like a Force Palm. just get creative and mix it up

 

[culexus・wau]

Susa told me if we do a falling fair right uptilt and fair will clank.

but it has to be spaced right or else we'll trade or get plain beat out.

The Falling fair has to autocancel for us to do anything useful out of it though.

I generally agree w/ Zucco that he have to work harder though.

****s dumb. :<

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Oh and the Aura Sphere data.

Wait a sec, Flamey...

How does FAir clank with UTilt?

http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/1382/auramythtrainerinfinity.png
Fair does 3 at 0%, 4 at 39%, 5 at 75%, 6 at 123%, 7 at 170%.

I mean by the time we do get to 123% we'll definitely stale FAir to hell. Snake's UTilt does like 13%, so yeah...

 

[culexus・wau]

Something to do with our disjointed hitbox.

imma try it out today.

or at least thats the jist of what I got from him.

this all from Susa btw.

He also recommended ending our fair strings offstage with the front hitbox of bair instead,

something about it being harder to DI and puts him in a worse position.

HEY MYTH LOOK AT MY THREAD ABOUT BAS STAGGERS I NEED SOMEONE ON THAT :<

 

[RT]

I would think that Lucario's fair vs Snake's utilt has way too much risk of messing up...but that's just me.

 

[culexus・wau]

if it works it works.

so far from testing I can't do it ><

 

[DusK-The-Stray]

Okay, I'm gonna give this "Contributing" thing a try. I still suck though so everything I say should be taken with a grain of salt a saltshaker.

I also haven't seen Trela Vs. Razer, so no clue what happens there. (Connection sucks)

Okay, so I was playing a Snake friend of mine yesterday and here's what I gathered.

Dtilt is useful in this match-up, I suggest using it if you can PS an Ftilt or other such attacks when he's too far away from our grab range but still a bit too close. Also mixing jab(s) > grab with jab(s) > Dtilt seems to work well to get them into the air fast.

Grenades are kind of fun imo, when they don't hold on to them. Throwing back the grenades is always good, just watch for them stopping it in midair or stripping you of them, obviously. If I don't get stripped of the grenade, I like to hold on to it and get in close and shield stuff until it explodes or throw it just out of their reach maybe getting them to hit the grenade coming at them. If they get hit, and get sent high enough, attempt to follow up, otherwise, I suggest putting in some distance.

As for AS in this match, besides catching them on landing lag, I like to interrupt their grenades with a BAS or pop them outright with a charged one as close as I can to them. Alternatively, aim for the head with a BAS, it'll most likely go above the grenade and hit him in the face.

When Snake is setting a fresh mine at high percent, I like to grab him over them, sure you get a bit of damage, but they get blown sky high. I think it kills snake at 170% on FD, but sense I have no replay, I can barely remember if he DI'd it correctly. (How do you DI it correctly again?)

And now a couple of questions, I somehow managed to short hop (Fast Fall Full Hop, not really sure, no replays) over an exploding C4 without getting hit, is this useful at all and can someone check this out for me as I lack the tools for this?

And I'm done, here's to my first attempt to be useful. /cheers

 

[Browny]

Susa told me if we do a falling fair right uptilt and fair will clank.

but it has to be spaced right or else we'll trade or get plain beat out.

The Falling fair has to autocancel for us to do anything useful out of it though.

rofl... ground attacks and aerials cant clank (that arent specials like zss nair, MK glide attack).

All that will happen is that the disjoints will overlap each other with no-one getting hurt until one of the disjoints hits the others hurtbox first.

 

[iDeo]

Alrite, so on to which character now to discuss. Fox, Marth?

let's keep it rollin.

 

[DusK-The-Stray]

I cast my vote for Marth, if only because I think I'm gonna need help on that soon.

 

[superlucario]

lets do samus

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

I'd like to do Marth as well.

 

[Browny]

ffs how many times do you want to talk about the same characters. At least talk about something interesting other than 'marth edgeguards us'.

 

[iDeo]

ffs how many times do you want to talk about the same characters. At least talk about something interesting other than 'marth edgeguards us'.

U can just evade the obvious and discuss tactics u can apply against him.

Not to mention we should just talk about characters who aren't often discussed such as Mario or Yoshi. Just throwing it out there.

But in essence I think every1 has a firm grip on wat to watch out for against Marth so we can basically skip him.

 

[Browny]

I wouldnt go that far down the list, you want to keep the discussion kind of relevant to what characters are used competitively often enough.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=10734902&postcount=11325

What are some characters that havent been discussed 26 times and are popping up often enough...
IMO start at wolf and work backwards

 

[iDeo]

I wouldnt go that far down the list, you want to keep the discussion kind of relevant to what characters are used competitively often enough.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=10734902&postcount=11325

What are some characters that havent been discussed 26 times and are popping up often enough...
IMO start at wolf and work backwards

I get wat ur saying. But we shouldn't forget the low ones b/c there a chance u could run into. Small chance but possible.

But Wolf also sounds like a good start cause i haven't seen Wolf opinions really. I don't kno depends on the votes.

 

[culexus・wau]

1 vote for diddy.

I want to talk about banana related stuff :<


We could do peach or Toon link though

 

[DusK-The-Stray]

I can change my vote, right?

In that case I now vote for Wolf and Diddy, if we're still doing that 2 character thing.

Otherwise, Wolf first.

 

[Braxton2011]

1 Diddy.
1 Olimar.
0.5 Wario.

 

[ShippoFoxFire]

Did we ever finalize a number with snake? :o

 

[Fizzle_Boy]

1 Diddy.
1 Olimar.
0.5 Wario.

1 Count.
1 Hilt.
0.5 Krystedez.

Right? Lucario just loses those matchups. It doesn't help that all three of these players can handle Luc so well. Hmmmm...what to do?

Snake is 6:4. I doubt anyone will argue with that.

 

[Braxton2011]

1 Count.
1 Hilt.
0.5 Krystedez.

Right? Lucario just loses those matchups. It doesn't help that all three of these players can handle Luc so well.

O.o; do i know you?

Also, 1 Count, 1 Avarice.

So wait, its not that I suck, its that they are good? /confidence

Well if any of thsoe aren't good enough, I'd have to say some DK.

 

[Fizzle_Boy]

I think I've played you once. It was at Vamps first monthly. Me and Avarice played your double lucario team in dubs, and from what I remember you weren't a bad player, and those 3-4 guys are good. I think Avarice is the only one of them who still hasn't won a set off me. (Name search, I dare you!)

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Hmmm. I'm starting to think MK Lucario is 45:55 again.

But yeah I agree that 40:60 Snake is a good number.

Doubt we have much to export off of though...

Diddy and Marth time.

 

[culexus・wau]

Just gonna post random stuff.

Sometimes if you powershield/shield a banana, if you try to jump and aerial it the diddy will jump and fair you.

if you block/they whiff dsmash you get a free move if your choice.

Diddy's Fsmash is gay and you will not SDI it every time, but when you do Dair/nair depending on where you are.

if you don't DI out of upsmash you're bad/were not paying attention.

Banana-AS trade is ****, even with BAS.

Bananas give you a free any move you want really on trip.

in the air they can chain to aerials or aurasphere.

A way to edgeguard diddy [I haven't mastered it yet], according to my friend who plays diddy in NY :> [blazey <3] is to grab that motherfuggin edge once he's forced to UpB, and drop + jump nair him when he's comes.

if you're good enough you can even grab the ledge and hit him w/ invincibility.

you can do it with dair too but nair is easier imo.


I don't get to play VS non CPU Diddys that much so I can't test a lot of things on human players.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

You can grab Diddy during his Dash Attack (hit 1 and 2) and FSmash (hit 1).

You have a frame window of like 5 to grab him I think, but don't ***** at me about it being not humanly possible because I've been able to grab Diddys out of reaction on WiFi.

 

[D. Disciple]

I've done it a lot, even grabbed a wario when he fsmashed me, and a snake when he utilted me.

 

[iDeo]

ok so most votes show we should go to the Crazy Monkey. let's hop to it!

 

[D. Disciple]

We discussed Diddy so many times, and repeat the same things over and over again. Let's go with an uncommon character for once.

 

[RT]

Wolf is pretty uncommon. How many do you even see in tourneys nowadays?

 

[culexus・wau]

1.

2.

Both of them play falco now though LOL.

Dunno why were doing marth along with diddy though.

I recommend changing to TL or Wolfies or something.