SINGLES Lucario Match-Ups and Directory! Mario will brb saving a princess

[D. Disciple]

bair more, you'll be surprise how well we can zone Wario with it.

 

[hichez50]

I will have to try these bair tactics.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Alright, starting on Wolf and DK now.

Wolf:
The biggest problem that I have is how to get around his five or so different approaches.

Any sort of landing lag or something and you eat a face full of Blaster. His FAir comes out fast, his BAir has good range, FSmash punishes landing lag, Shine interrupts everything, etc.

I know we have that UThrow CG, up to 30% something.

Wolf's ability to kill is a bit below average, so don't be surprised if you survive a fresh DSmash at 110% (DI that up).

I really don't know what neutral is bad for him. I used to think FD, but he has an easier time punishing our landing lag there.

I have also been toying with using Double Team vs. his Blaster a bit. I think its a pretty good mixup that'll work well against this particular character.

Lylat and Frigate are nice though.

Donkey Kong:
DK loves his BAir as much as Marth loves his FAir. If misspaced above, you should be able to pop under him and use a FAir without getting hit.

Don't be obvious with DAir above him because of his long arms reach. You will likely eat a DSmash, USmash, UTilt, or a BAir.

While in the air be careful if you are still in hitstun and you wanna try to hit him with your DAir. Some of the time DK can just use his UAir and hit you without him getting hit at all.

Don't forget to DI DSmash to the side, it shouldn't kill you even at 110% on Neutrals.

If you manage to footstool him while offstage... that pretty much equates death for him, so keep that in mind.

Watch out for his DTilt to Down B traps.

Pressuring his shield, so that you can easily shieldpoke works wonders too.

 

[Steam]

Also against wolf a pummel release at the ledge basically screws wolf over. if he DJ's fair>Dair> take ledge. If he goes straight to UpB just take his ledge.

 

[hichez50]

DK is tough. His back air has to much range an priority. The only way I ever beat DK players is chipping damage fast. If you let DK have to much alone time they can regain spacing advantages and charge up a neutral B. If you go to aggressive though DK with literally eat you. Hard matchup.

 

[culexus・wau]

Donkey Kong: Camp him, if you're forced to approach do so with caution so you don't get punished hard.

DI his Dsmash down and opposite of which side you got hit.

for example you get hit on the left side of dsmash, hold RIGHT and Down and you'll live long.

To deal with ftilt just throw out your hitboxes around the tip of his ftilt range or grab it.

it'll hit/grab DK's extended hitbox. also good for looking cool [grabs] or having wtf faces [Fsmash hjtting DK across the stage].

If he's in the air but FACING YOU, HE"S DEFENSELESS GO **** THAT ****. he's also vulnerable for below which means delicious juggles.

AS is VERY EFFECTIVE AGAISNT DK USE IT.

if your timing is good it means he can't just spam bair in your face.

wolf later.

 

[Aurasmash14]

I believe DJ said something once of AS making DK bair m00t once it started to overpower it?

 

[Browny]

Yeah... As long as you always have an FCAS, it really should drastically change the way DK behaves because hes so easy to hit out of landing lag with it and it wont get cancelled out if its big enough.

 

[Steam]

FCAS doesn't start beating Bair til like 80% though...

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

And now we're going to start talking about two characters who's metagame is well... Spammy.

I really don't know too much about these MUs now, so I'm not gonna pretend like I do.

So, what do you guys think about these MUs?

What should we look out for? What should we not do? You know the drill.

 

[Steam]

err with sonic... space the crap out of him since we outspace him obviously. don't let him uair or bair you. we should be living stupidly long each stock. if he's used his spring he's kinda like snake falling to the stage and you can get him with AS.

We should probably look at what some moves do vs. Spindash. so we know what goes though it. I'm curious to see if AS charge does anything.

as for pit all I know is fair beats his arrows lawl.

 

[RT]

Sonic? Call Espy. We both have fun times in this matchup...mostly me though, lol.

 

[Fizzle_Boy]

Lots and lots of fun....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSKK2LRDtzk

 

[Zucco]

you dont need a strategy vs sonic.

We win by doing anything.

 

[RT]

Big thing is to avoid stages with slopes near edges, like Yoshi's and Pictochat.

 

[Steam]

you dont need a strategy vs sonic.

We win by doing anything.

But I lost to X D:

and I was doing something D:

 

[Zucco]

son, I am disappoint.

 

[Espy Rose]

you dont need a strategy vs sonic.

We win by doing anything.

This, this, and a million times more this. Especially the yellow part. There is almost absolutely no reason to lose to a Sonic.

RocketTrainer, Sonic can't use Yoshi's Island: Brawl or PictoChat for Spin Dash abuse vs. Lucario. His aura BEATS it.
Yup.

=====

Sonic can't kill. Lucario does well when he stays alive. We already have a problem. A huge-***** problem.

Sonic has trouble getting inside Lucario's range because of the combination of attack speed and power, while Lucario really doesn't have to do much to get near Sonic. Besides, aura sphere forces Sonic to approach as is.

Again, you guys pretty much win "by doing anything."

The only excuse you have to losing to a Sonic is bad DI/Recovering. That should be the only thing holding any Lucario main back.

 

[Browny]

Reverse aura sphere charge vs an approaching sonic can be pretty funny, just be sure to react if they switch it into an aerial of sideb hop

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'm absolutely terrible vs Sonic.

 

[StarGalaxy777]

Nice thread

 

[phi1ny3]

Pit uair generally > lucario dair

pit planking is obnoxious, just charge AS and find an opening when possible.

relatively underwhelming aerials, imo for the hype he gets. Most aerials aren't safe near the ground (aka usually have bad land lag), shield will be very useful when you see an aerial coming b/c he has more commitment on all of them for the most part. Unfortunately this doesn't hurt him nearly as bad since he forces approaches, most of his aerials are decent for throwing out to wall, etc.

Arrows < fair, good for recovering offstage if you time it right. Should not get gimped by arrows unless you are recovering low.

his close range game's pretty good, Pit's will either use fsmash for killing, or damage rack w/ it. Most pits in this MU will try to keep it fresh though.

Pit Bair is only killer on the initial hitbox, it's not very strong from "sex kick" properties afterwards.

pit jab is pretty useful in the MU.

Pit's reflecting is meh, good pits won't get baited easily, if you find one that does, grab downB (attacks won't get through it), sideB is pretty meh.

imo 50-50/55-45, pretty

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

I think his UAir beats our DAir only when we're using it out of hitstun and/or fall with it.

 

[phi1ny3]

Or if they just use it's large horizontal hitbox to nick it

 

[Steam]

We can't beat dat helicoptah.

also Dair is good against Pit's UpB since it says F*** you windbox

 

[phi1ny3]

yeah, the initial windbox will block EVERYTHING.

 

[mew1000]

Pit is not a good MU for me that is sad when I know lucario kick's pit ***
but i'll be trying to get beter at that MU

 

[hichez50]

Pit just likes to annoy the **** out of people.

 

[phi1ny3]

I got to play a Pit this last tournament.

you pretty much will want to full hop zone, even though his uair is ****, dair still will provide the leverage (remember, all his aerials has bad lag on landing, so you pretty much just have to wait for whatever response he throws out). uthrow is a decent throw against him from what I noticed, careful about crossing him up on shield at higher percents. His glide is fast so you have to get used to that. While it sound gimmicky, I never got gimped as long as I faired arrows.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Beware his bair.

That thing surprised me when it killed me kinda low and so well.

Also bad medicore pits don't change the timing on their arrows, PS all day on those. When you start playing better pits, ones that mix up the timing a bit more then you'll play a guessing game sometimes.

Outspace him, we do it pretty well surprisingly.

 

[phi1ny3]

yeah he has only a few kill options, but with a good read he can kill really well. Make him have to throw you at high percents, shield is pretty safe in the MU.

 

[RT]

Fsmash, bair, dash attack (high percents), I think dair (high percents), and some other move I forgot...you'll mostly die from fsmash or bair though. And be super careful with AS. He has two reflectors.

 

[phi1ny3]

also watch out for shield gimps, it's pretty much the equivalent of "cape ****".

 

[Steam]

I thought he could only shield recoveries with hitboxes...

 

[phi1ny3]

oh yeah, I forgot that I only got gimped when I was playing as sheik/zelda

then again, he never really tried to shield ES b/c I'd always recover high.

 

[iLink]

Fun fact: lucario's fsmash can duck under arrows that aren't angled down.

 

[RT]

It's all about changing dat hurtbox...kind of like when Ike usmashes.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

So Pit Planking, can Lucario handle this without a LGL? I'm curious for future reference, because it sounds like our Dair spaced correctly can beat it out.

 

[RT]

Yeah, if spaced correctly, it can beat it. Just space it.

 

[Browny]

Wouldnt double team be able to beat it lol? sure itll send you under the stage but it should hit him >_>