SINGLES Lucario Match-Ups and Directory! Mario will brb saving a princess

[RT]

Wouldnt double team be able to beat it lol? sure itll send you under the stage but it should hit him >_>

I wouldn't try this unless the stage has a wall, like Yoshi's, lol. I would assume that the Pit can just fast fall if you DT his uair. I guess someone can test it...

Regardless, it can be stopped. Lucario's dair da bess.

 

[Kitamerby]

If you wall Sonic out and DI out of his Spindash combos, he really can't do much of anything to you.

I cry IRL whenever anyone still gets hit by spring uair.

Also protip: DI his uthrow towards his back, not his front. DI'ing towards his back sends you backwards at an angle and allows you to live longer as well as avoid the obvious spring followup that shouldn't work anymore because it's not 08. DI'ing towards his front lets you up for a spring uair gimp if you mistime your airdodge/dair. Beware if he starts mixing uthrow up with Fthrow, because DI'ing out of fthrow > spring uair is the exact opposite from uthrow, except impossible to react to because it's so much faster than uthrow.

Also learn to tech dthrow. If you don't, then the Sonic will have some nasty stuff for you if you get grabbed.

 

[Browny]

pretty sure teching the dthrow is advantageous for sonic, seeing as lucario has no moves quick enough to punish it.

 

[hichez50]

so we shouldn't tech?

 

[John12346]

Pseudo necro, but I think we should discuss the ditto.

I believe the matchup goes from even at the start of the match to heavy advantage for whoever got the first kill.

 

[culexus・wau]

You never have a true advantage in the ditto imo as far as stocks go.

At one point you WILL have to deal with broken lucario [120s+] as ****cario [0% lol].

and then there are those redic moments where it basically even.

70% lucario

vs

180% lucario


oh hey its last hit.

sooo gay.

its also extra annoying to land lol.

:x

 

[culexus・wau]

dubs post.


this thread needs another OP AGAIN.

I nominate D because I can bother him on AIM to update it.

 

[phi1ny3]

Yes, RJ and I agree this might need a new owner/need to be renewed.

D would be a good candidate I guess.

 

[John12346]

Well, here's my take on the ditto:

- Avoid using weak, upwards hitting moves, because you'll get Dair'd. Like every time. Ow.
- Dair stalling is VERY important to avoid the chief kill moves Lucario has; AS and Fsmash. If you're recovering or something, and he's waiting, don't be afraid to use ES prematurely to get to a safe area, even if you are risking lag. Fsmash is scaaary.
- Because Lucario is so floaty, catching his landing provided he doesn't Dair stall is very easy. Try to time your attacks so they will hit whether he goes for the landing or continues to Dair.
- Obviously go for gimps. We already know ES is safe to Fair. If you see Lucario rushing to the stage with ES before you reach with your Fair(or before you even jump off the stage...), bait that **** and use a smash or an aerial or something.
- Our dodge game is enough to avoid every kill move Lucario has. Along with this, Lucario has like a billion kill moves at the right percent. Watch out for Fsmash, AS, and those surprise Uairs and Shippo smashes, and dodging the rest will come naturally.
- Jab combos **** because we pop Lucario into the air during the jab.
- Ftilt *****?

 

[Steam]

I honestly think this Matchup is pretty close to even even when one Lucario has a 2 stock lead on the other... on that last stock the losing lucario is pretty much guaranteed going to get you to your last stock. and then since you won't kill anything at that % you're pretty much going to end up in his kill range before you kill him. (70%)

 

[RT]

Space all your moves..if spaced and timed a correctly, an fsmash can be punished with an fsmash...you know what strings Lucario has so watch out for them...don't fish for the kill, especially if your opponent has Aura. Always watch both percents.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Since I have ownership, which character do you want covered that wasn't talked about recently?

 

[Pitbuller26]

We haven't talked about Samus in a long while.

 

[culexus・wau]

Might as well.

We can get Trela and RT in on this ;3

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

We'll go ahead and do Samus.

 

[Xyro77]

The same write up i did almost a year ago for samus vs lucario still applies(no joke, go read it). Though i do not use the number system(its inaccurate) to judge MUs anymore.

Heavy Disadvantage
Disadvantage
Slight Disadvantage
Even
Slight Advantage
Advantage
Heavy Advantage



Samus vs lucario is a DISADVANTAGE for Samus.

 

[RT]

Pretty much what Xyro said...you probably won't even see a good Samus at most tourneys anyways...

 

[hichez50]

Yeah this sounds about right. Has there been any niche discoveries?

 

[phi1ny3]

if you see zair patterns, try to AS I guess, Zair has transcendent priority so it shouldn't cancel it out, but it comes out fast so eh...

I play someone who isn't a pro samus per se, but he plays every low tier pretty well. There's a point where even if you powershield charge shot, she still has enough frame advantage to hit you if you try to punish her, so don't.

recover high obv, sucks to die early from a spike, and obv. don't go for the ledge if they're tethering.

um get in her space and own her I guess.

 

[RT]

If she is tethered to the edge, you can still footstool off of them.

Just don't let Samus get too far away, or she'll start spamming zair/missiles/charge shots. But keep in mind her projectiles all have trash priority. Her up close game isn't great, but watch out for Screw Attack oos. You shouldn't die until high percents, unless you get spiked/gimped. Her limited amount of killing power alone just makes this in Lucario's favor.

Like I said, it's very unlikely you'll encounter a good Samus in tourney, let alone one that knows this matchup...except Xyro. If anyone wants some matchup experience and is going to MLG Dallas, then you should play him there.

 

[hichez50]

This match-up already seems to be dry with information. I don't really have any experience offline with any reputable samus players so I can't say much other than don't get hit.

 

[RT]

I mean, the matchup hasn't really changed since it was last discussed. Literally.

Just read what Xyro posted and what I posted during the previous discussion and you're pretty much set. And like I said, it's highly unlikely you'll encounter any good Samus mains anyways. But if you're going to MLG Dallas, I'm sure Xyro wouldn't mind giving you experience first hand.

 

[culexus・wau]

Xyro namesearch again.

its not in the samus boards qq.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=287653

 

[RT]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=8546550#post8546550

Link on first page

 

[culexus・wau]

oh.

it was on our boards.

derp

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

For lazy people

LU LU vs SAM SAM​

60-40 in Lucarios favor​

If you dont feel like reading this decently sized post just rea the next sentence. At the Highest level of play for Lucario AND Samus, the match-up ratio would be 60 to 40 in Lucarios favor. If you wish to see WHY, proceed to the paragraphs below. WHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH!





DBZ $hit

I dont know the correct term for it but i call it "DBZ $hit" because when goku loses a fight(gets his *** beat) he gets stronger. Same for lucario! Each time you kids get hit your attacks do more damage. Ive seen poor ZS's get kill at 40% from a lucario at like 165% and 2 stocks behind doing a F-smash. That **** is screwed up. Anyway, this DBZ $hit is KEY in the samus vs lucario matchup....as u read on, you will understand.



Projectiles

Right out fo the boxs samus has you beat. She can pelt you with lock-on missles/Homing missles/Charge Shot(cs) and Zair(yes i consider it a projectile). Feel scared yet? In reality it is the SAMUS players who should be scared.

Ok so while we build up EASY damage on Lucario from our spam(this is our priority because samus has problems uilding up damage with melee attacks) we also are fueling your DBZ $hit. So in reality, the more we spam and the more the spam hits you, its making you stronger......********.

Another thing we HATE is the fact that your MEDIUM to fully charged aura sphere GOES THROUGH zair, lock-on/homing missles and weak charge shot. WE MUST HAVE a CS that is EQUAL to your Aura Sphere or else yours beats ours and we take the hit. Lucario is one of the 2 chars that have a projectile that can stop ALL of our projectils. Its just dumb and it gives lucario a nice advantage on Samus's BEST attribute.....projectiles.

Overall, i think Samus wins this department slightly.



Melee attacks

Im not gonna sugar coat this ****: I WET MYSELF WHEN LU LU IS IN MY FACE. Not only does samus's weight make her easy as hell to combo, we dont really have a move that will STOP the combos once we are in it.

I might be spillin' a secret to you lu lu kids that the world doesnt want you to know but....tee hee.... Lucario's aura has invisible hit boxes.....OMG LIKE YOU DIDNT KNOW THAT ALREADY!!!! But seriously, your attacks can be spaced in a way to where EVEN if we shield, you can still stay out of range of our longest melee attacks: d tilt, f tilt.

Thanks to your DBZ $hit, you can make alot of your moves KO moves. Man, ive seen lucarios Fthrow, Uair, Bair, Dair, fsmash, Dsmash and some times ive seen Utilt kill. Samus only has 3 reliable KO moves. CS, Dtilt, and F smash(assuming its not already exhausted).

Overall, Lucario will ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS win in this department.



Recovery and Gimping

Ah yes, this is the ONE WAY Samus can tunr the tide of the match and win! As all of you know, Samus is VERY VERY floaty which allows us to get back to the stage easier than most. You also know that our Tether is the LONGEST(yes more than ZS and olimar) in the game. You MIGHT even know that we can STILL bomb jump like we did in melee. And if you ever played a Samus you know her UP+B has great hieght and its MULTI hitting so the chances of you edge hogging our recovery is slim to none.

Now combine that with lucarios PREDICTABLE and SLOW recovery. Sure you can wall cling but dont kid yourself, its trash and you know it. Samus can shoot multiple missles to stop you recovery LOW or HIGH and she can even run off stage to shoot missle of zair. Spiking the recovery and wall cling is nothing hard for samus player because MOST of our kills on the ENTIRE cast consists of spike so we know every way possible to set up for it and force you to get in the range of it.

However, Lucario DOES have answers. Simply STAY in the middle or as close to the middle of the stage as you can. What is samus gonna do, come run up to your face and MAKE you go to the ledge? NO, read the section above here again and realize we CANT melee attack your *** at ALL so we cant force you to the ledge that way. Only our projectiles can do that.....oh wait, did you read the first section? Yea if u did you would know that, if done correctly, samus projectils SHOULDNT mess with you that much if you keep a medium to fully charged Aura sphere handy at all times.

Yes i know lucario can run off and fair or combo samus, but do u really wanna take the chance of doing that and then have us use our GREAT recovery and tether the ledge you were UP+Bing to? Its not worth it so dont try it.

Overall, samus wins in this department.



Stages to Ban/CP

Samus's BEST neutral stages:

FD: this allows us to run away and set up HUGE walls of projectiles.
BF: obviously the platforms gives us decent advantages on most of the cast.
SV: moving platform opens up new ways of camping.

Samus WORST neutral stages:

YI: The ledges screw up out Zairs and other "coming from the ledge" attacks. Shy guys and tilting platform mess up our missiles.
Lylat C(if legal): The platforms are nice but the ledge and tilting stage can screw us up badly.

Samus BEST CP:

lol the neutrals that we are good at are generally what most samus players CP with.
Some other(like me) pick PKMN 1 or Jungle japes or Norfair.

Samus WORST CP:

Just take us to ANY LEVEL where there is little to NO room to spam. Projectiles is 80% of our game and if you take it away or reduce it greatly.....what do we have left?



The Grand Scheme

Samus CANNOT kill
Samus ONLY does well when we have room to spam
Samus has SLOW melee atatcks

So pretty much, GET in our face. We DO NOT have a reliable answer to that method. ALWAYS have a medium to fully charged Aura Sphere on hand in case the spam gets too bad, fire it and run behind it to get BACK in our face(lol thats f-ed up), Pick stages where we CANT spam so that way you reduce our MAIN way of building your %s. Make sure you use your DBZ $hit to its fullest, it works on the WHOLE cast.

Seems pretty much how I feel about it. GJ to Xyro and I agree with it.

 

[D Who?]

I play an amazing samus. Mech. Well I relized that all you have to do is walk up. Not even run, walk up. You can sheild everything and her grab is to slow and predictable to get you. The only thing she has is jabs and fsmash. I believe the fsmash has a dead zone, anywho, ftilt or utilt will walk. You can approach with fair and get around missles with it. double missle canceling is a bit of a problem but use your second jump. She can zair but you can see that coming so just air dodge or get out of the way if you're in the air.. So just walk up, sheild and jab, grab, ftilt or utilt and you'll win. I can get Mech in here to talk about it too.

 

[phi1ny3]

I kinda wanna know stages, Castle Siege seems at a first glance to be good for Samus, but I dunno. Bigger stages = more camp room for her, luckily AS starts to become a stronger force to combat/frame trap at higher percents so that might help. Haven't really played the MU on anything aside from neutrals lol.

 

[culexus・wau]

just go to small places.

her she can live long just as well as us, might but can't really kill.

so going to small places isn't that bad of an idea <_<

close that gap!

 

[RT]

I know for a fact that Xyro HATES Yoshi's with a passion...he likes PS1 and Green Greens, though these may be personal preferences. In theory, Samus does good on FD because of projectile spam. She doesn't have any reliable low percent kill moves, so big stages should work against her.

Also, watch out for zair kills on stages with smaller sides or platforms near blastzones. You don't think it's possible until it happens to you, lol.

 

[culexus・wau]

I would take samus to yoshis, battlefield, castle siege, frigate.

from best to worst.

Castle1 is good for you and Castle 2 is great as well but Castle 3 is kinda eh for the same reasons final D is eh.

Frig is just good for us in general


Final D is a little gay, Triple Missile

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Frigate is good, I've used it with very good success against Samus, Yoshi's is also pretty good.

Samus can also Zair off the ledge to strike pretty low on block, I dunno how to describe Samus does a Zair that is almost directly on the level of ground of the stage and hits low with it.

 

[RT]

Yeah, I know what you're talking...it has to be spaced perfectly or they'll tether the edge.

 

[D Who?]

Brinstar is a good level to pick vs her. It allows us to be more agressive and kill her at lower percents

 

[Steam]

Japes isn't bad either... We live forever and ever and ever and japes can screw with Zairs. though it makes her camping better.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Yeah, I know what you're talking...it has to be spaced perfectly or they'll tether the edge.

Yeah, Sago was doing this last time I played him in a MM. His Samus is...wow it's really good, most of my Samus practice came from my friend who left for the military.

Sago though gave me first hand experience of a top level Samus, I defiantly feel like Lucario has the advantage...but it's no walk in the park lol.

 

[phi1ny3]

I don't know, I played a pretty good samus (he really improved day and night from last time we played) and I almost JV 3-stocked his Samus, next match was much closer though.

Then in some friendlies later he went ZSS which helped him out a looooooooot lol.

 

[RT]

It's in Lucario's favor by far. Like, Samus has tools to do damage and can space Lucario projectiles and zair but she can't kill without getting close...and Lucario has Aura by that time so...yeah.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Also be careful of Charge Shot vs Aura Sphere.

 

[RT]

Eh, CS has crap priority compared to AS. Once Lucario gets aura, it eats it FOR LUNCH.