SINGLES Lucario Match-Ups and Directory! Mario will brb saving a princess

[Vionce]

lol that will make it like the 3rd rediscussion of snake. has much really changed? get him in the air, punish landing frames, and dont get hit by ftilt.
i vote for fox since he gives me a lot of trouble.

 

[Kitamerby]

Sonic. He's important now.

 

[hichez50]

I vote fox. Fox is defiantly requires a more aggressive lucario than most match-ups. Fox likes to pressure lucario hard and you can't always avoid the pressure.

 

[iRJi]

Wth happen to the MU list.

 

[hichez50]

For example do you know when we beat an uncharged fresh Falco USmash with our FSmash?

Spoiler

165% same stock, fresh.

Remember, the 8% rule is your friend.

What is the 8% rule?

 

[Kitamerby]

Moves that do within 8% of each other and can clank will clank. Otherwise, one beats out the other.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

lol eat it pikachu boards. i like

 

[Zucco]

Snake is probably in Lucarios top 3 hardest MUs. Took me awhile to see it but yeah, its kinda hard lol.

 

[Tony T]

Top Five MU's I would like to discuss

1.Snake
2.Ice Climbers
3 Marth
4.Meta Knight
5.DK

IC's are my mortal enemy atm.

 

[RT]

Snake Snake Snake.

 

[Steam]

G&W would be a good one. Last discussion had him at a 6:4 advantage >.>

 

[culexus・wau]

Snake Snake Snake Snake Snake

Def. one of our top hardest MUs just due to the mentality and flow of that match.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

@iRJi - I'm using that list officially until we go around with making ratios when we discuss the characters again.

Okay, pretty sure people want Snake.

What strategies should we use to approach him?

What should we keep in mind when fighting him?

How should we use nades against him?

How should we use stages against him?

AS data coming later.

 

[iRJi]

@iRJi - I'm using that list officially until we go around with making ratios when we discuss the characters again.

Okay, pretty sure people want Snake.

What strategies should we use to approach him?

What should we keep in mind when fighting him?

How should we use nades against him?

How should we use stages against him?

AS data coming later.

At least put the list in order, lol.

 

[iDeo]

@iRJi - I'm using that list officially until we go around with making ratios when we discuss the characters again.

Okay, pretty sure people want Snake.

What strategies should we use to approach him?

What should we keep in mind when fighting him?

How should we use nades against him?

How should we use stages against him?

AS data coming later.

After playing against my friend's Snake, I've come to these conclusions.

1) Snake of course has faster moves when it comes to us. 3 frame jab and 4 frame f-tilt most commonly used for damage racking. It's best to run and shield when ur trying to get in. In some instances Snake's will mix it up with a jab -->grab, so sometimes u mite have to change to shield --->spotdodge. Of course it's critical to keep Snakes guessing which defense mechanism ur using to get in. Rolling is good but keep it to a minimum to catch them off guard.

2)If u happen to get up close with a Snake it's sometimes good to wait to attack. Snakes have a tendency to spot-dodge and shield a lot. Abuse this habit. Let them sometimes make the first move so as to not get countered by a spot-->jab combo or something. You kinda wanna be unpredictable. If u succeed the opponent will think u'll do it again, and try to attack first giving u time to defend and capitilize. Of course, don't let this always be the case to wait, just be unpredictable in ur intentions.

3) In this MU, ur best friend is uptilt. Juggle juggle juggle. Snake can pull a nade out so be careful when ur going for a second or third uptilt. U can mix up ur uptilt with and u-tilt-->pivot grab to avoid the nade. Afterwards u can upthrow-->tilt again, but remember this only works at low percents .

4)When he's off the stage, **** HIM! Keep ur fair chains goin, even if ur Goku strength hasn't kicked in, just rack up the damage. In addition, use the up-air as well if he is above. Because Snake is heavy and falls fast, let them make the first move by air dodging and u punish with up air to keep in the air. Again keep them guessing on ur intentions when they are trying to get back on the ground. If Snake is below the stage, hold the ledge always. You don't want to give him a chance to get back on the stage.

5) I've learned throwing his nades back is a good help. But keep in mind that Snakes can pull out another and force you to drop it. Be mindful of this when u wanna use it. A nifty little trick with the nade is to down-B with one in ur hand as it explodes to surprise Snakes. Timing is everything, but use this trick only when u feel u can pull it off. I recommend using it only once a match cause then Snakes will expect it next time.

6) Based on my personal style, I like to keep a balance of moving and baiting (somewhat) against Snake. So as for stages, I recommend Delfino, RC (only if ur comfortable after some practice on the stage), and Frigate.

7) Hmmmm. Oh yes as for ur AS, keep it charged. A valuable moment when the charged AS is necessary is when Snake is landing. What u wanna do is catch Snake right before he lands so judging the distance and time ur AS will reach him is key. If it hits, u'll feel so empowered and it'll make u wanna taunt (lol). Don't spam ur AS so much; a charged one keeps a slight bit paranoia in ur opponent's mind and makes them react sometimes how u want them to.


Hope my exp. and advice helped. =)
GL in the MU, play smart, and be unpredictable.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

Top Five MU's I would like to discuss

1.Snake
2.Ice Climbers
3 Marth
4.Meta Knight
5.DK

IC's are my mortal enemy atm.

i played some pretty good IC over wifi about 2 weeks back so ask away

played the MU mostly lucario obvi

 

[Braxton2011]

Don't ever try to shield Grab Snake

Spoiler

Unless you powershield first F-tilt

, because he'll most likely grab you first.

Throw Nades back at him if he doesn't hold them.

Learn to punish the landing lag from him landing with fully charged Aura Sphere(Its a very small window though)

DI Utilt BEHIND him and you will live.

 

[phi1ny3]

I disagree to an extent.

If it's ftilt1, then I can see why you wouldn't want to shieldgrab

but ftilt2's a different story.

Snake's oos game is a little weird, his grab is actually slower than most (frame 8 iirc), hence why characters like Marth get hard to grab w/o grenades.

 

[Braxton2011]

I disagree to an extent.

If it's ftilt1, then I can see why you wouldn't want to shieldgrab

but ftilt2's a different story.

Snake's oos game is a little weird, his grab is actually slower than most (frame 8 iirc), hence why characters like Marth get hard to grab w/o grenades.

Whenever I speak of not being able to do something. I mean provided that the Snake spaced it right. So. Yea. It can be grabbed, but if properly spaced. Not likely. Unless you have balls of orichalcum and have pro grab skills with cario.

 

[Kitamerby]

Or 252 EVs in speed.

Snake is gay. He'd be fine if he wasn't just so **** heavy...

 

[culexus・wau]

wtf you guys are weird.

I hella shieldgrab snake most of the time.

its generally not safe to grab ftilt 1 or jab though unless you read it.

if you're out of the space for ftilt 2 grab just Fair oos.

Don't be dumb and try to punish ftilt 1 with fair oos though ****ing snake can ftilt 2 you right after </3

He's especially easy to grab when he's coming from the air or getting juggled.

also

Fun Fact: Snake's grab is slower then ours, frame 8.



Honestly I just wish he didn't just have such easy momentum building tools

 

[RT]

Always try to get port priority.

IMO, if he gets you with a dthrow, it's almost always better to roll away, because he would literally have to start running after the throw in order to catch you with something besides a dash attack. Obviously, mixing it up is important, but yeah...roll forward...just not onto mines or C4...

Lucario will die around 130ish from a fresh utilt on most starter stages...and this is considering good DI. And if he gets you on a platform...yeah...

It is possible to SDI the first hit of ftilt and avoid the second. If he's right next to you, SDI towards. If he hits you with the tip, SDI away. It's not easy, so don't rely on it, but it can be done. But the hitstun from the first hit is massive, so it's better to just get away if you do get out. You can grab Snake if you powershield the first hit, but if the Snake is spacing correctly, then forget about it.

Fair, nair, and dair can all break through mortar. I'm sure uair might, but I'm not brave enough to try it, lol...

Also, it sounds really weird to say this, but once you get past 130%, you will die from the next kill move, so getting hit by nades should be the least of your problems. Not saying you should be like hur, go ahead and run near exploding nades but...don't let it concern you as much. It'll take a couple more nades before you die anyways.

 

[Browny]

130 is like DK weight lol

try around 115-120

 

[Kitamerby]

The number 108 comes to mind for some reason.

 

[Browny]

even with perfect DI? 120 is if its been staled like, once (just a guess)

 

[Kitamerby]

even with perfect DI? 120 is if its been staled like, once (just a guess)

Probably no DI.

 

[RT]

Well, I meant that when you get hit with utilt, you'll end up with like mid 120ish percent on average.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

In training mode I was able to DI/SDI a fresh 119% UTilt pretty sure I could probably survive at a later %, but meh.

I know it kills us earlier due to fresh moves getting that 1.05 bonus, but we should be surviving UTilts at 110 at least.

 

[Steam]

wait so fresh moves are stronger in game than in training mode? <_>

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=210557

That is correct, Steam.

Everything not in the stale move queue gets a 1.05 bonus.

 

[culexus・wau]

unless you're cool like me and use the stale moves in training mode code,

No stale moves with a fresh bonus 1 line (spunit262)

02FC098A 00110000

 

[superlucario]

Hi guys been a while has there been any changes in the lucario metagame

 

[Fizzle_Boy]

Are there ever? Rahahahahahahahaha. Just kidding

Spoiler

but not really

 

[Dark 3nergy]

wait so fresh moves are stronger in game than in training mode? <_>

this is why i prefer trying to keep certain moves as fresh as i can

and i never use training mode either unless i need to look at frame data, everything else i practice in brawl mode. This way i get a really good idea about knock back, stale moves etc

 

[Stealth Raptor]

@myth

Spoiler

according to this picture from the thread you just linked traning mode moves are at multiplier 1

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

I know that's why I said we should survive at least a 110% UTilt.

Anyways, we need to get Snakes here.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

oh i apologise i misread what you said LOL *facedesk*

 

[iDeo]

In the end, the MU stays 60:40 Snake's favor.

 

[Steam]

actually the last ratio was 55:45

 

[Pitbuller26]

Which I still believe its 55-45.