Smash Bros. Canon Tournament! (Mario Vs. ????) - 06/14/10

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Gonna let this match run for a while :D.

 

[Syde7]

In every scenario where ROB is pitted against someone... he would lose. He can do nothing, except stack things.

 

[Samochan]

Ouch, couldn't be any worse matchup for mah poor Mewtwo *_*

Boozer has the magic, airshop, broken stuff like star rod he stole... and game mechanics mewtwo is just a pokemon >.>

Sometimes I wish anime was canon, lol.

But soo uh, tell me moar bout King o the Koopas. <.<

 

[PowerBomb]

He can make himself invincible for an infinite amount of time.

 

[Hyesz]

Does Mewtwo learn Psycho Cutter?
Cause then he can cut the ropes to 'dat bridge.

Rofl. I'm voting Bowser. He's badass.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

First thing that comes to my mind; Can Mewtwo stop Bowser before he becomes invincible in time?

 

[highfive]

I'm going for Bowser if he turns invincible before Mewtwo beats him. Sorry Mewtwo. You'll just get boned...

 

[PowerBomb]

Mewtwo can't do anything. He has no priority moves.

And if anyone says "OH, MEWTWO CAN USE PSYCHIC TO LIFT THE STAR ROD OUT OF BOWSER'S HAND"

That can't happen. Psychic doesn't do that in Pokemon.

 

[Crystanium]

He can make himself invincible for an infinite amount of time.

Especially in-game. The only way to stop him from turning invincible is by either taking away the Star Rod like Sonic did, or have those Star people on your side to get rid of the invincibility. If Mewtwo could learn Teleport, that would be a very useful thing right now.

 

[justaway12]

Can't Bowser teleport

I don't think Mewtwo has the grip for that as well...

 

[missingnomaster]

I think Mewtwo could learn teleport in 1st gen, but that was from a TM.

Bowser has a short range teleport as shown by Super Mario 64.

 

[PowerBomb]

So should Pokemon be allowed the moves they're able to learn in the old-gen games, or should we count their remakes as retcons?

 

[missingnomaster]

I think remakes would be retcons. It doesn't really make sense to give them things they only had in retconned games. Mewtwo couldn't get teleport anyway though (unless we allow for an "infinite stupidity" rule)

 

[Diddy Kong]

Psych Up could maybe take invincibility away from Bowser and give it to Mewtwo
Mist could prefent Bowser of becoming invincible
Miracle Eye may take invincibility away as well

And isn't Psychic an attack from mind to mind? Bowser's outside might be invincible, but if he's attack from within does that even count?

EDIT: There's also Future Sight. Dunno really how to discribe this move, but it isn't an ordinary move. Someone help here please?

Also, good match up.

 

[PowerBomb]

No, Pokemon's Psychic is a telekinetic force or something.

Psych Up only copies stat changes. 'Invincibility' is not a stat change.
Mist prevents THE USER AND HIS TEAMMATES from getting stat reductions.
Miracle Eye stops all attempts to increase evasiveness and allows Psychic-types to hit Dark-types.

So no, none of those would work.

 

[missingnomaster]

Psych Up: "Psych Up copies both the positive and negative changes to the target's stats and replicates them onto the user. The target's Attack, Defense, Special Attack, Special Defense, Speed, Accuracy and Evasion are copied. Any changes made to the target's stats after Psych Up is used will not affect the user's stats. " ~ Bulbapedia

Mist: "Mist prevents the effects of primary stat modifications inflicted by the opponent. If a move used by the opponent could only cause a stat change (such as Growl or Kinesis), that move will fail. However, Mist will have no effect on side effect stat modifiers used by the opponent, such as defense reducing via Acid or special reducing via Psychic.

Mist does not remove any stat modifiers already in effect, does not prevent the stat modifications associated with burns or paralysis, and does not prevent the user from successfully using stat modifiers. The effect of Mist can only be removed by switching, Defog, or Haze.

Mist will fail if the user is already under its effect."~Bulbapedia

Miriacle Eye: "Miracle Eye removes the Dark-type's immunity to Psychic-type attacks and restores the target's Evasion stat to normal. "~Bulbapedia

As you can see, those moves would do little to help Mewtwo in this matchup.

 

[Samochan]

****it I want tm's...

Cause mewtwo's Snatch/Embargo >>>>> bowser 's star rod ;p

Snatch can copy any status your opponent does, such as stat up, healing, sub and things and invincibility certainly is status. =) Embargo prevents the use of items alltogether, which would prolly totally screw bowser over.

But... sigh, no tm's, no win for poor mewtwo. <.<

Though why should we disallow the usage of tm's anyway... most are found lying on stupid routes just like berries and random held items are, yet we are not disallowing those. Some TM's are also learned naturally by pokemons. Double standards much? >_>

 

[missingnomaster]

On top of that, Snatch is a priority move, so that would really be useful.

As far as I can see, though, an infinite stupidity rule isn't totally out of the question right now.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Embargo maybe? Role Play copies foe's special ability, dunno if invincibility counts as that though.

 

[Samochan]

Embargo maybe? Role Play copies foe's special ability, dunno if invincibility counts as that though.

Role play is a tutor move, a wild mewtwo wouldn't have access to any human tutors.

A shame though, cause it would be hilarious to see Mewtwo using Trick to change himself a star rod and give boozer Rawst berry (cures burn). Or something that could really help Mewtwo (iron ball, Lagging tail, Toxic orb, Black sludge..)

But no, Tutors are strictly for Trainer pokemons, Mewtwo is a wild one here with no trainer.

Though TM's, I made my case earlier, what do you guys think?

"Though why should we disallow the usage of tm's anyway... most are found lying on stupid routes just like berries and random held items are, yet we are not disallowing those. Some TM's are also learned naturally by pokemons. Double standards much? >_>"

Pokemons are also fully capable of using all kinds of items and everything, like saving money and building homes, like on the Pokemon Mystery Dungeon Series, where human is transformed into a pokemon =D

 

[Crystanium]

What is "infinite stupidity," missingnomaster?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Mewtwo was a trainer himself in Pokemon Stadium. He as well showed being able to fly there. He had Thunderbolt and Blizzard as moves there, and he can't learn those naturally so... I guess Mewtwo at least can have TMs.

 

[Samochan]

Mewtwo was a trainer himself in Pokemon Stadium. He as well showed being able to fly there. He had Thunderbolt and Blizzard as moves there, and he can't learn those naturally so... I guess Mewtwo at least can have TMs.

Mewtwo cannot use fly, but I do recall that awesome screen where Mewtwo is floathing. :o

And the moveset was Psychic/tbolt/blizzard, amnesia (rd2)/rest

But stadium is iffy imo. It really has not much connection with the original series, as it's more like putting battles on 3D. This incarnation of Mewtwo has no connection to the ones you can find in RBY, FRLG or HGSS. :/ Not only that, but Mewtwo appears from a frigging pokeball. >_>

Silver also uses Mewtwo on Stadium 2 final battle. <_<

You also get thunderbolt on generation 1 by defeating Lt.Surge (stadium 1 is gen 1). Even though Mewtwo could defeat surge... but uh, to get tm and badge? He's no trainer. Same goes for other tm's.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Invincibility's a status how?

 

[Samochan]

Invincibility's a status how?

Status as in state of affairs. Different from stat. More like something is in a state of something, let's say destiny bond for example, you're in state of something that makes your opponent faint if they ko you. That's status. Creating invincibility to oneself would be certainly snatchable.

"If the selected target uses a status move upon itself in the same turn Snatch was used, that effect will be received by the user of Snatch instead. "

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Status_move

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Category:Status_moves

 

[JBRPG]

Bowser is just heavy and often relies on clown cars to make Bowser go into the air, but Mewtwo can float and use psychic attacks to blow up the car and send Bowser down to the ground with his gravity-changing powers.

 

[PowerBomb]

Bowser is just heavy and often relies on clown cars to make Bowser go into the air, but Mewtwo can float and use psychic attacks to blow up the car and send Bowser down to the ground with his gravity-changing powers.

1. Statements require proof

2. Lol

@Samochan

Snatch doesn't Snatch Protect or Detect, which both grant invincibility (for at least, one-turn).

Invincibility isn't a status in Pokemon. Nor is it a stat-upping move. Snatch fails.

 

[thesage]

Wow, Lucas vs. Fallco matchup was mad wrong lol. Lasers do get reflected by Counter alpha.

1:47
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiO0aog5Xv8&feature=related

Lucas deals with bombs from heavy artillery in his game all the time.

Lucas looks at Falco's ship and it blows up. End of match.

 

[PowerBomb]

Lucas lost against Falco?

Lolwut

Lucas DESTROYS Falco.

Rolling HP, PK Love, + items = GG Falco. PK Love hits Falco INSIDE the ship, you know.

 

[REL38]

Bowser uses Star Rod to gain invincibility.

Mewtwo can't . . . hurt him, now.

 

[JOE!]

Seriously, you had a tier list to begin with...

why suddenly go to rounds?

 

[Sasha]

Mewtwo has Recover and Reflect. Does M2 ever learn Disable?

 

[Crystanium]

Lucas lost against Falco?

Lolwut

Lucas DESTROYS Falco.

Rolling HP, PK Love, + items = GG Falco. PK Love hits Falco INSIDE the ship, you know.

I believe Lucas won, actually.

 

[thesage]

Sorry, the matchup result for that listed Lucas as losing, but in later posts it's listed as Lucas winning. Lol. sorry.

 

[Sasha]

Wait, if Bowser's allowed to have his Star Rod, why isn't Mewtwo allowed to use TMs?

 

[§leepy God]

♪ Bowser from Mario Sunshine is the most broken Bowser, you can't even hurt him and he bath's in acid. T_T †

 

[Diddy Kong]

Wait, if Bowser's allowed to have his Star Rod, why isn't Mewtwo allowed to use TMs?

Yeah exactly. The Star Rod is just a thing Bowser had for once. If he didn't have it, he would be much worse. I think Mewtwo can have TMs. There's never stated "which" Mewtwo (like there are more...) was in Melee, so he might as well be have a trainer, if that allows him to get to his full potential.

Mewtwo in Melee however is far more based of the anime than anything else, but whatever... Also, in Melee he had the moves Shadow Ball, Confusion, Disable and Teleport. Now neither of those moves he learns out of himself, so I think Mewtwo should have access to TM moves.

 

[PowerBomb]

The Pikachu in Brawl learns Skull Bash. >_>

Wait, if Bowser's allowed to have his Star Rod, why isn't Mewtwo allowed to use TMs?

For one thing, Bowser had the Star Rod the entire time in his game. Mewtwo has no trainer. Only the trainer can teach the Pokemon TMs.

Someone go fetch the trophy of Mewtwo from Melee.

 

[Samochan]

I really don't see why Pokemon's would need a trainer to use TM's, as the TM (according to LGFR) is simply placed atop the pokemon's forehead and then the TM aka Technical Machine which resembles a disc, transfers the move into the pokemon by itself.

TM's are (mostly) found from the wild, not forgetting pokemon are able to use TM's and HM's themselves on Pokemon Mystery Dungeon Series, alongside items such as Protein. They even have their own currency called Pokedollar. Mystery Dungeon series is basically a depiction how Pokemon live without human assistance (which is something the main character, human turned pokemon, is in awe about). The pokes have a **** economy running there lol.

So yes, pokemon can teach themselves TM's and even HM's. =)

--

For boozer, embargo should prevent his items to be used for 5 turns, then mewtwo could use barrier to boost his defence, then kick *** with psychic and aura sphere. Toxic should be able to bring down anyone who doesn't have something to cure poison. N * max(1, int(0.0625*MaxHP) basically means 1/16 hp first turn, 2/16 of hp second turn, 3/16 of hp third turn etc. "Unlike other types of damage, the recurrent damage done by Toxic can exceed the target's current HP. " Toxic is so broken if you cannot switch or cure it.

Snatching boozer's invincibility however, then embargo, would be a broken combination, stealing that invincibility and then preventing bowser from using it altogether. Protect is different from complete invulnerability in many ways and snatch can still snatch protect effects as snatch is not affected by protect. >_>

Snatch: "This includes also other attacks which cannot be categorized under physical moves and special moves because of their unique or nearly-unique effects, such as Destiny Bond, Splash, and Recover. "

If one does something to oneself, snatch can in most likely scenario snatch the effect. =)

 

[Crystanium]

♪ Bowser from Mario Sunshine is the most broken Bowser, you can't even hurt him and he bath's in acid. T_T †

It wasn't acid. It was just hot water, like what you'd find if you were taking a bath. Peach was also in that water, I believe.