Smash Bros. Canon Tournament! (Mario Vs. ????) - 06/14/10

[Samochan]

It wasn't acid. It was just hot water, like what you'd find if you were taking a bath. Peach was also in that water, I believe.

Bowser spews fire, so he'd have resistance against high levels of heat, thus the bath water being steaming hot.

The acid fumes would prolly make peach dizzy and drop her into that acid lol, not to mention melt her rubber duck thingy she's on.

 

[justaway12]

Peach wasn't in the bath, the bath also hurt Mario, IIRC, maybe it's steaming heat, IDK.

Anyway, Bowser had magic powers, it tuurned people into inanimate objects in SMB.1, I doubt he had access to the star rod.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Even if we aren't basing Mewtwo off the anime, I don't see why we can't allow him his TMs. Bowser was only shown with the star rod for a set amount of time, he lost it afterwards. If we're using Mewtwo's orignal stats, we should also be using Bowser's original stats (as in no star rod).

In video games

In Pokémon Red and Blue, the player learns of Mewtwo's existence through research notes left in the ruined "Pokémon Mansion" on Cinnabar Island, which describe it as being born from Mew due to the efforts of a solitary scientist,[19][8] but proved too powerful to control, destroying the laboratory and escaping. The player is later given an opportunity to capture Mewtwo in the Cerulean Cave, which is accessible only after defeating the game's final bosses, the Elite Four and Blue;[20] in the remake titles Pokémon FireRed and LeafGreen the prerequisite was expanded, requiring additional exploration and the player having recording information on sixty Pokémon species before access to the cave would be granted.[21]
Since his debut Mewtwo has appeared in other Nintendo games in major roles. In games such as Pokémon Stadium and Pokémon Pinball, Mewtwo appears as a final boss after all competitions have been completed.[22][23] In Pokémon Puzzle League, Mewtwo serves not only as the final opponent but also as the one responsible for game's events.[24] Other games, such as Super Smash Bros. Melee and the Pokémon Mystery Dungeon series have featured Mewtwo as an unlockable player character that must be defeated beforehand,[25][26] while games such as Pokémon Snap have featured the character in cameos, appearing once certain conditions have been met.[27] For all appearances in which the character has spoken dialogue, Mewtwo is voiced by Masachika Ichimura with the exception of Pokémon Puzzle League, which is voiced by Phillip Bartlett instead.[1]

 

[REL38]

@Ray

Bowser losing his Star Rod is required to move along the plot.

Same deal with Samus. She loses her suit w/abilities at the end of the game.


Losing stuff is mere plot mechanic that's required to move along the story.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

@Ray

Bowser losing his Star Rod is required to move along the plot.

Same deal with Samus. She loses her suit w/abilities at the end of the game.


Losing stuff is mere plot mechanic that's required to move along the story.

Samus' suit is a complete different story, it's part of her originality. Bowser only steals the star rod for one battle, in a game.

Pokemon's on the other hand don't learn TMs/HMs from the beginning of the game because the creator wanted you to achieve those.

Same deal with other games, Mario or LoZ for example. Mario doesn't start with starman from the beginning of his games, he earns those just like how you'd earn TMs/HMs in Pokemon games.

So yeah, TMs are allowed.

 

[justaway12]

Starmen aren't allowed >_>

Only the ones you get as items.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Starmen aren't allowed >_>

Only the ones you get as items.

I was making a point..

 

[Diddy Kong]

Does Bowser lose the Star Rod before the end of the story? I believed he was the final boss. Btw, was Paper Mario (N64) just as good as TTYD and Super Paper Mario? Cause I played both, but never the original. Anyways... What happens to Bowser and the Star Rod at the end of Paper Mario?

Samus is different though. Metroid Fusion for example let her lose all of her abilities cause her suit was infected with a virus, which nearly took her life. Also, Samus always ends the game with her full potential. At least, in Metroid Fusion she did.

EDIT: Okay, so TMs are allowed now? Then Mewtwo wins easily, Star Rod or not.

 

[justaway12]

We take the powers from their fullest potential or something like that...

That's why we add things that could have been lost.

 

[REL38]

@Ray

That's still not a concrete reasoning behind why the Star Rod shouldn't be used.

Paper Mario is not a 3rd party title.
It's canon.

True, he only used it in that one game, but how is that a concrete reason to not use it?
Samus only used the Annihilator in Echoes, the Imperialist in Hunters. Does that mean they're thrown out the window? No. It doesn't.

Can Samus go back and get those weapons?
Not really. But she's allowed to have them since it was an in-game ability.


"What if characters were true to their games?"
Paper Mario is a canon game. All shown abilities by Peach, Bowser and Mario count from that game.

 

[Crystanium]

The name of the trope where a character loses his or her upgrades in a new video game installment is known as Bag of Spilling. In The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, at the end, Link is sent back seven years, and we move onto The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask. This may explain why Link does not carry his equipment over from OoT to MM, despite the fact he had the Kokiri Sword and Hylian Shield in both games.

Metroid also does this. In the first Metroid game, you collected all sorts of items. In Metroid 2: Return of Samus, Samus started off with 30 Missiles, the Morph Ball, and Bombs, I believe. The Long Beam has only appeared in Metroid/Metroid: Zero Mission. Every other game ignores this. Maybe Samus has the Long Beam permanently. She acquires the Power Grip, which is not present in any other Metroid game, because it was retconned. Samus is able to grab onto ledges in Metroid Fusion.

The whole Bag of Spilling idea started to tone down a bit. In Metroid Prime and Metroid Prime 2: Echoes, Samus starts off with certain equipment, in which Retro tries to explain why Samus no longer has these items, hence the big explosion knocking her back, or the Ing stealing her equipment. In Metroid Prime 3: Corruption, she really didn't lose anything, but started upgrading from the moment the game began. She had the Morph Ball and Bombs. So, yeah. don't mind the Bag of Spilling. It's a trope used often in video games.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

@Ray

That's still not a concrete reasoning behind why the Star Rod shouldn't be used.

Paper Mario is not a 3rd party title.
It's canon.

True, he only used it in that one game, but how is that a concrete reason to not use it?
Samus only used the Annihilator in Echoes, the Imperialist in Hunters. Does that mean they're thrown out the window? No. It doesn't.

Can Samus go back and get those weapons?
Not really. But she's allowed to have them since it was an in-game ability.


"What if characters were true to their games?"
Paper Mario is a canon game. All shown abilities by Peach, Bowser and Mario count from that game.

I wasn't denying that Bowser shouldn't have his starrod. I was making a point as to why Mewtwo's allowed his TMs.

@Diddy: Yes, Bowser does lose his starrod at the end.

 

[Samochan]

Well mewtwo is allowed tm's and boozer can have his star rod. >_>

But what about Bowser's magical abilities, seeing as star rod is ineffective against mewtwo due to tm's he can use. If Bowser uses his star rod, mewtwo can snatch the effect and get it over with. :/

http://www.mariowiki.com/Bowser#Powers_and_Abilities

 

[justaway12]

Bowser in SMB.1 turned people into inanimate objects, I'm sure he could do the same to Mewtwo.

Besides, he can stop time.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Bowser's durable nature is evident seeing that he has fallen into lava, been blown up, etc., but has managed to survive all this many times.

Well looky here.

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

@The TMs thing: Well, I guess I'll allow it. I don't ever recall myself not allowing it in the first place.

 

[Samochan]

Bowser in SMB.1 turned people into inanimate objects, I'm sure he could do the same to Mewtwo.

Besides, he can stop time.

Where does bowser stop time?

I'm fairly sure safeguard could prevent getting turned to stone, as it prevents all status problems within the protective field poke does for 5 turns.

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Where does bowser stop time?

I'm fairly sure safeguard could prevent getting turned to stone, as it prevents all status problems within the protective field poke does for 5 turns.

Stop watch in Paper Mario. Sonic was able to stop Bowser from activating it in time, cause of the start-up lag it gets.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Substitute also prevents status effects and what not. Bet Substitute would be a good answer to Bowser's Stop Watches as well.

Besides, Mewtwo will Snatch away Bowser's invincibility. So what IS there that Bowser can still do?

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Oh btw, Samochan, you should totally link your sig to my page >_>.

 

[justaway12]

Super Paper Mario.

Mario, Luigi, Peach and Bowser all can stop time.

He can create earthquakes, he can terrorise which can scare people from the stage, but he also has the return pipe, if he needs to he'll just exit.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Super Paper Mario.

Mario, Luigi, Peach and Bowser all can stop time.

He can create earthquakes, he can terrorise which can scare people from the stage, but he also has the return pipe, if he needs to he'll just exit.

If Mewtwo is already invincible cause he Snatched Bowser's invincibility, then what good would it do to stop time... temporary? Besides, Embargo makes Bowser unable to use items.

Moveset:
Snatch
Embargo
Psychic / or another sp.atk based move dunno
Calm Mind or another filler move

 

[justaway12]

Bowser doesn't have to turn invincibile...

About Embargo, it's a status effect right? Bowser has something that stops status effects, the safety ring.

 

[REL38]

Question:

Why are TM's legit for Mewtwo now?

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Bowser doesn't have to turn invincibile...

About Embargo, it's a status effect right? Bowser has something that stops status effects, the safety ring.

Leave it to Bowser to figure that out.

 

[justaway12]

Leave it to Mewtwo to figure out that Bowser is invincible =/

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Question:

Why are TM's legit for Mewtwo now?

Mainly because I'm trying to base each character at their fullest potential. So anything that would be possible for them to obtain, do, or anything they had in their game is fully legit.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Leave it to Mewtwo to figure out that Bowser is invincible =/

Mewtwo's probably the smartest Pokemon (canon wise) in the series right now.

 

[justaway12]

So? How would he figure out someone turned invincible?

 

[Ray_Kalm]

So? How would he figure out someone turned invincible?

Common sense? - Star rod in hand, and unharmable.

 

[Samochan]

Bowser doesn't have to turn invincibile...

About Embargo, it's a status effect right? Bowser has something that stops status effects, the safety ring.

Ummm no. Embargo prevents the foe from using items, or the trainer from using items. It's not exacly a status effect as paralyzis, sleep. etc. are, nor does safeguard for example prevent embargo from being used. Embargo has more resemblance to rain dance and sunny day, it's like a field effect but it affects both the poke and it's trainer.

Also, leave it to Mewtwo to figure out someone is about to use an item when they pull it out and then prevent the usage of items, or just snatch the effect if said item when it's being used. =) Kinda no brainer. Mewtwo does have high combat abilities and "only thinks of defeating it's foes" and all that stuf. He's also fast enough to pull it off. Mewtwo's Pokethlon stats of speed, power and technique are 5 stars cept stamina and jump are 4 stars.

Shouldn't bowser be able to use clown cart?

Shame trick is move tutor move lol. That would be most hilarious.

 

[justaway12]

Common sense? - Star rod in hand, and unharmable.

He won't know at first =/
All that happens is that he glows, he can stop time right after


@Soma: How can it be a field effect, when it doesn't affect the field?

 

[Samochan]

@Soma: How can it be a field effect, when it doesn't affect the field?

It's kind of like, it affects both the opposing poke and the trainer, preventing the use of items. It's not a status nor field effect, but just uh, another effect and it cannot be preventied via the use of safeguard or things that prevent status ailments.

 

[justaway12]

It's kind of like, it affects both the opposing poke and the trainer, preventing the use of items. It's not a status nor field effect, but just uh, another effect and it cannot be preventied via the use of safeguard or things that prevent status ailments.

How can it be prevented

Also, Snatch only effects if that Pokemon used that move in the same turn.
Bowser wouldn't have to use it the first turn.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Bowser doesn't have to turn invincibile...

About Embargo, it's a status effect right? Bowser has something that stops status effects, the safety ring.

No, it's not a status effect. It just prevents usage of items which the safety ring would fall under.

So now Bowser doesn't use the Star Rod... Doesn't mather in a way, cause most other things he has can either be canceled by Embargo, or taken away with Snatch.

Don't think Mewtwo will need Calm Mind here, so instead he should probably get Recover. Now Mewtwo can heal 50% of his HP, while Bowser can't use items. Not that it mather much, cause I don't think Bowser needs many hits from Psychic to get defeated.

 

[REL38]

Bowser has tye ability to teleport (SM64).

He can stall Mewtwo out until he uses all of his PP for Embargo.

 

[justaway12]

Diddy, read my post above.

His earthquake makes him jump far away from the screen, kinda like fly, he can't get affected by up there.

Besides, he can turn Mewtwo to stone, just so I get an idea, what are Mewtwos move?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Aura Sphere never misses. So Mewtwo'll just use that instead of Psychic. Has more PP as well...

 

[Magik0722]

Bowser teleports behind mewtwo then grabs him while throwing fireballs at his face

 

[justaway12]

If Bowser teleports, it's out of the battle.