So I guess ICs are "S Tier" now :) / :( ?

[Mr. game and watch]

Small blastlines also means wario dies early.
Lava saves us from warios gimps.
Lava doesn't come THAT often.
This stage is bad, I hate it.
But wario has a bagillion perks on RC that catch our miss haps.

Wario ***** on both stages, were bad on both.
We may be a little worse on brinny, but warios way better on RC.
There's two sides to every MU...

 

[DeLux]

Traditionally speaking, Wario's best stage is Brinstar :\

The key difference in the matchup is that with proper stage control, you can at some parts force Wario to go into a vulnerable zoning on RC.

On Brinstar, this is never an issue for Wario since the stage is static for the most part. All he has to do is wait until the acid forces us into the air and then capitalize.

 

[Mr. game and watch]

RC (minus the few select parts) forces us into the air anyway. Cause it moves up and down and sideways... Horrid.

I hate brinstar. Hate it alot.
But i like it better than RC, as far as ICs go.
Of course I'd use yoshi against a wario anyways because the infinitesimal easy and the MU is really fun...
But ICs just... Well... It's easy to lose nana on RC, for me at least. Tryin to hop from plat to plat, wario can seperate us easily mane.

 

[Roller]

First of all. vs Wario.. Pivotgrab. GG.

Second. Brinstar is so much worse than RC it isn't even funny.

Third. I beat a toon link on RC with ICs in bracket this weekend. I felt cool.

 

[DeLux]

RC (minus the few select parts) forces us into the air anyway. Cause it moves up and down and sideways... Horrid.

I hate brinstar. Hate it alot.
But i like it better than RC, as far as ICs go.
Of course I'd use yoshi against a wario anyways because the infinitesimal easy and the MU is really fun...
But ICs just... Well... It's easy to lose nana on RC, for me at least. Tryin to hop from plat to plat, wario can seperate us easily mane.

You misunderstood what I said. For example, if you control the left side of the ship, you can then control the bottom of the rising section. If you control the bottom of the rising section, you can stall out the pendulum part enough to make you cross over to the other side minimzing the pendulum area since it's a giant death trap. If you control the right side of the side scrolling part, Wario has to go over you in order to get back to the ship. You're "forced" into the air once, but it's predictable and you get better at being evasive in that part as you get used to it.

If you're hopping from platform to platform, you aren't being forced into the air. You're doing it willingly. The only time that would occur is on the rising section on the left, but this is mitigated by playing chicken with the blast zone.


You can't do anything remotely close to the tactics i outlined for Brinstar in terms of stage control.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

RC (minus the few select parts) forces us into the air anyway. Cause it moves up and down and sideways... Horrid.

***** at least 3/5ths of the stage is on the ground. Each cycle takes ~2 minutes. The boat is 30 seconds. The part with the carpets/platforms/pendulum lasts 60-70 seconds, and then the side scrolly part is easily 30 seconds. I've played on the stage a lot since Pikachu <3 RC. Please, don't start spouting **** unless you actually know what you are talking about. Thank you.

Wario can run away forever on Brinstar. On RC the stage forces him to approach at some points if we go ahead of him on the transformations (Ex. be above and then to the right of Wario so he will have to go over/through you at some point). He can't really run away on the boat unless you suck, and he can't really get through you on the top. If you don't suck at jumping/running away on the air part you shouldn't have any problems. I'm not saying we win on the stage, but it is WAY better than Brinstar where he can run away forever.

Also, on the subject of brinstar, the small blastzones favor Wario more because he has fart. Fart now kills at 50% instead of 70%, while we kill at 110 instead of 130. Most of our kills are coming from grabs anyway, so the % that we end it is rather irrelevant. Also, the slants can mess up CGs and hobbling, and the lava is more beneficial to wario than to ICs since he can stay in the air for a long time with bike and his DJ while we only have our side-b which puts us in a huge amount of afterlag that he can hit us with.

 

[DeLux]

Not to mention that on the boat and on certain parts of the side scrolling area, we have guaranteed weak hitbox uair to footstool to IB reset to grab gimmicks

 

[Mr. game and watch]

ICs too hard.
I usually ban this stage, that's for sure.
I get 3 stocked by wario here, and 2 stocked at brinny.

I don't even use icies anymore so meh

 

[Smoom77]

you all should just die

 

[Sieguest]

In a morbid view of life we're already dying so whether we should or not is irrelevant.

 

[Smoom77]

Incorrect answer.

 

[Sieguest]

There was never a question to answer. Just a statement to show is irrelevant.

 

[Mr. game and watch]

Smoom tell me a story



edit: Lux I found out why you're bad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FI0BED56ymw&feature=youtube_gdata_player

ignore the last 5 seconds.
Only video I could find of it.

 

[Sieguest]

Hard trolling with Metaknight flying around the cursor on Halloween.

EXTREMELY HARD
TROLLING

 

[DeLux]

Smoom tell me a story



edit: Lux I found out why you're bad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FI0BED56ymw&feature=youtube_gdata_player

ignore the last 5 seconds.
Only video I could find of it.

I don't get it.

Hard trolling with Metaknight flying around the cursor on Halloween.

EXTREMELY HARD
TROLLING

Smashboards is broken?

 

[Sieguest]

Your response leads me to believe that you're behind this metaknight fiasco DeLux....

 

[DeLux]

I didn't do it. I don't know who did

 

[Sieguest]

Okay, blaming Hylian then.

 

[I SEE YOU]

We finished out loser and grand finals from the tournament I went to this weekend. I beat Kismet's falco 3-1 in Loser finals (set was very close) & I took the first set of grands from my brother's wario 3-2. I took the 1st game from him because he paused after i took a stock.
I think i was being kind of mean in doing that, but I was hoping it would frustrate him. It was out of desperation (i had to win two sets since i was coming from losers). He went on to win the second set 3-0, because i got waaaay to predictable. I did want to thank you guys for the matchup advice, retreating nair and bair was a godsend. I just need to do a better job of mixing it up with my desynchs.

 

[Hylian]

Ah, I just played your brother haha his wario is very good, good job. Did he go all wario or go PT as well? Surprised Kismet didn't go mk.

And yeah, sh nair is a godsend in that match-up, very spammable.

 

[Mr. game and watch]

@lux
You move you character, but you don't play.
You chain your grabs, yet you haven't chaingrabbed.

 

[DeLux]

???

Have you seen me play?

 

[Sieguest]

http://www.smashboards.com/member.php?u=144633

K, definitely Lux now. I AM CONVINCED

 

[DeLux]

What am I looking for on your profile?

 

[Sieguest]

Nevermind, I have figured out the reason why there are metaknights in select places.
Accursed Metavamp

 

[DeLux]

I really have no idea what is going on lol

 

[Sieguest]

Users with the really dark purple names cause three flying metaknights to move around your cursor for whatever page you're on.

Example for the social thread: Smoom

 

[I SEE YOU]

Ah, I just played your brother haha his wario is very good, good job. Did he go all wario or go PT as well? Surprised Kismet didn't go mk.

And yeah, sh nair is a godsend in that match-up, very spammable.

My brother went all Wario, and I did take game 2 on RC with ZSS. Game 3 was very close, but I took it on BF. Kismet couldn't go mk, because AL banned mk

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

so guys. im picking these characters up. im either dropping pit or just seconding him for these guys. so what should i start looking at aside from the guide?

also, lol at social title

 

[Smoom77]

Go to video thread and watch stuff. Go to recent posts to see most recent videos.

Read 2011 CHAINGRAB guide.

Desync thread. Learn LD1 and LD2 most importantly. I can explain it to you on aim sometime.

Yeah.

 

[Mr. game and watch]

Ask lux a million questions about ICs till he gets annoyed.
Then ask guestg. FanghospesGhosti.

 

[Sieguest]

Ask lux a million questions about ICs till he gets annoyed.
Then ask EA until he gets annoyed
Then ask guest

Fixed on two counts.
4srs, peeps know who you're talking about if you just say guest. o.o

 

[Mr. game and watch]

Yeah, but new people may not.

 

[DeLux]

I don't get annoyed by new questions.

I get annoyed by technically incorrect information

 

[Mr. game and watch]

Dat call out

 

[Hylian]

I don't get annoyed by new questions.

I get annoyed by technically incorrect information

Yet don't believe me on kill %'s when I've tested them and not given the IC boards incorrect information before.

 

[DeLux]

Yet don't believe me on kill %'s when I've tested them and not given the IC boards incorrect information before.

Because on a technical theoretical level, you're wrong. It doesn't mean what you say doesn't work in practice.

I remember that one tourney where I played FAE and you told me to kill at 90 and I got away with a Charge > Throw > Smash finisher instead of a Throw > Charge > Smash finisher because he wasn't mashing hard and it worked. That being said, if I hear they aren't mashing at top speeds, I do a modified version of your way because it lets me do less throws before a kill meaning I won't drop a CG.

But I know that from my testing and based on internal game mechanics, the post I wrote on how it works is essentially what will happen and it can be mashed out. But that's in an ideal theoretical world. At the end of the day, your method has value.


Some of the things people say are bad on both a mechanical and practical level.

 

[Hylian]

I just don't think it's humanly possibly to mash that fast. I played reflex and he didn't mash out at that % when I killed charizard and he is considered the fastest masher. I played MJG and Domo when they were using kprimes technique to get more inputs(as well as many others trying this against me) and none of them have mashed out unless I miss an input and just sit there lol. Not a single person ever has mashed out of my kill throw unless I just didn't input the throw above 100%, people have mashed out when I've tried below 100% but really I have played all the fastest mashers and none of them have broken out against me above 100%.

What am I supposed to think? I don't advocate chaingrabbing longer than you need to.


And what I'm saying is that snake dies with DI at under 110% from dthrow, charge, bthrow, usmash and you and several others disagreed without even testing it first, then someone tests it and agrees with me, because it's true. You get a pretty much full charge from that method and only the quick pummel.

 

[DeLux]

I just don't think it's humanly possibly to mash that fast. I played reflex and he didn't mash out at that % when I killed charizard and he is considered the fastest masher. I played MJG and Domo when they were using kprimes technique to get more inputs(as well as many others trying this against me) and none of them have mashed out unless I miss an input and just sit there lol. Not a single person ever has mashed out of my kill throw unless I just didn't input the throw above 100%, people have mashed out when I've tried below 100% but really I have played all the fastest mashers and none of them have broken out against me above 100%.

What am I supposed to think? I don't advocate chaingrabbing longer than you need to.

I showed you video of someone averaging about 1.85 inputs per frame. One would need to average slightly above one input per frame. The max is two. If done correctly, every cstick input counts as 3 inputs. The cstick part wasn't known until recently. It's not impossible.

And what I'm saying is that snake dies with DI at under 110% from dthrow, charge, bthrow, usmash and you and several others disagreed without even testing it first, then someone tests it and agrees with me, because it's true. You get a pretty much full charge from that method and only the quick pummel.

In that scenario, the pummel is still 30 frames and people can mash out during the 30 frames. If you can get the throw off after your pummel animation, of course they would die. That's implied.

I've only contended that people can mash out in the frames of the incidental pummel you get from charging the smash. There is no way out of dthrow > Nana grab to buffer a smash without incidental pummeling because Nana's Grab IASA is 2-4 frames before Popo's Dthrow IASA.


Based on the math and if people couldn't mash out during pummels, one would be able to safely dsmash with nana every time popo regrabbed during a CG without fear of mashing. The frame trade is nearly equivalent.

 

[Hylian]

Sorry I just don't believe it. Never seen someone mash at over 100% from one pummel in tournament.

But you won't kill Snake at 110 with a partial charge in that context :\

This is what I was talking about. You disagree with me without testing, why? I've said over and over and over that you can kill snake with my method before 110 and people just blindly disagreed, the whole mashing thing didn't even come in till after the point.

You say "Of course they would die" but just earlier you were saying snake wouldn't even die.