shanus
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2005
- Messages
- 6,055
It's better than psi storm, lol.
I think it does 2.5 or 2.6x more dps now v armored, and like 80% of a toss ball is armored.
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I think it does 2.5 or 2.6x more dps now v armored, and like 80% of a toss ball is armored.
Karcist
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2009
- Messages
- 362
Add me up. Karcist/159
ArcNatural
Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
Wow at Idra vs Cruncher, crazy games.
Cynan Machae
Smash Journeyman
And lol at the trolling smiley face.
Fortress | Sveet
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that and you can chain it, and it reduces the surface area of a P army
Just watched the first game. I am pretty upset that idra lost. Not to sound like a whiner, but PvZ looks so imba. The match up seems to be based around zerg preventing toss from getting 200/200 army. Doesn't seem right that one race's 200/200 army destroys another race's 200/200 army :/
Full map control, more workers and bases, and still loses. haha
Did you watch Mondragon's games against ZeeRaX? He responded to Protoss' heavy air opening by not giving a **** and massing Roaches. And winning.
ArcNatural
Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
That's the nature of Zerg. The basic strat is your army is much faster to remobilize, therefore it's technically a 300/200 vs a 200/200 army. The first game I think Idra just had that horrible engagement at some point where Cruncher didn't really lose anything while Idra lost a lot trying to take out the natural or something. Somewhere Idra just had a bad fight and had to take on the last push A. Close to his base and B. not with his initial 200/200 force more like 160 food vs 200 with his "300" food army as reinforcements coming in during the fight.
Not to mention that Idra played before the infestor buff patch. Game 3 between Idra/Cruncher was just horrible though. That FF was BS, I really don't think FFs should be able to push units out of there spots (ie can't put a FF where a unit is). That might break toss FF though so w/e. Idra just shouldn't of engaged there I guess but it was such a bs play.
You could easily tell from the massive multitasking Idra did the second game that Cruncher was not even close in skill to Idra, he spent half the game zoned out not even knowing what to do to defend. Then he just goes in the third game and wins in One simple sentry push that is just wayyy too easy to execute vs defend against imo.
But holy crap the infestor buff is amazing. Mass Marine is no longer allowed. 3-4 infestors can basically destroy entire marine waves like colossus can in a few seconds. And the battlecruisers from TLO vs Nada looked pretty amazing as well.
Anyone know when season 2 starts?
Nasty_Nate
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2006
- Messages
- 1,164
what they already do
ghosts
assuming tanks cant handle it
ghosts
assuming tanks cant handle it
ArcNatural
Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
Basically this, you can just go standard and if you see infestors you either need to transition out or add ghosts to your army for EMP (even snipe if they don't have detection I think destroys infestors).
This also makes it so terran can't just turtle 200/200 and push out with mass thor or something and lol win.
Terrans are pretty versatile they'll just add 2-3 ghosts to their push and be fine.
EDIT: nvm. I'm tired.
That's 'cause you're only making out of two kinds of buildings, including your CC.
Anyway, I'm not on the level of those players, but there are times that I feel like IdrA plays really dumb and just practically throws games away.
Anyway, I'm not on the level of those players, but there are times that I feel like IdrA plays really dumb and just practically throws games away.
Fortress | Sveet
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Everyone makes mistakes, idra is just a man. Consider that the game is only about a year old (if you include public beta) and instinct for all situations can't have been learned yet. Also, zerg is the most fragile race, so one mistake is very costly while the other races can make similar mistakes and rely on natural defense and moderate reinforcements to not die.
Its a lot like trying to play the fox vs marth match-up. You must be really precise because each time marth hits you (or more accurately, makes you tech or recover) you are dead if marth reacts properly. For a long time the match-up was considered in marth's favor because of how difficult it is for fox to keep up with such simply damage. Now the match-up is considered even because fox players are much more consistent and to go along with that they can maintain equal footing in damage output.
What i'm trying to say is, give it more time. Pros practices mechanics and builds, and have to rely on experience and creativity to do the rest. Its gonna take a lot of time before jaedong vs flash.
And for the ZvT match-up, i like getting a flock of muta then transitioning into ling/roach/infestor. Mutas get map control and deal damage while i get my 3rd up and army/upgs. Forcing turrets/thors is a major plus since that won't be useful in the real battles. Roaches are so cost efficient ^^
Its a lot like trying to play the fox vs marth match-up. You must be really precise because each time marth hits you (or more accurately, makes you tech or recover) you are dead if marth reacts properly. For a long time the match-up was considered in marth's favor because of how difficult it is for fox to keep up with such simply damage. Now the match-up is considered even because fox players are much more consistent and to go along with that they can maintain equal footing in damage output.
What i'm trying to say is, give it more time. Pros practices mechanics and builds, and have to rely on experience and creativity to do the rest. Its gonna take a lot of time before jaedong vs flash.
And for the ZvT match-up, i like getting a flock of muta then transitioning into ling/roach/infestor. Mutas get map control and deal damage while i get my 3rd up and army/upgs. Forcing turrets/thors is a major plus since that won't be useful in the real battles. Roaches are so cost efficient ^^
lol, mechanics and builds. Those are the two things IdrA doesn't mess up in. I'm talking about his decision-making against players he feels are worse than him (and in all likelihood are), where in the mid-late game he starts playing like he's won the game already and ends up allowing players to come back from being significantly behind.
what are some of terran's most popular builds? i feel like my macro is improving regularly as i keep playing so sticking to a solid defensive style all the time probably isn't necessary. like i want to work on time pushes and early harass
no 1/1/1. i have that build down to a T
for example
what build allows me to get Hellions at the earliest moment possible?
what build allows me to get Blue Flame Hellions at the earliest moment possible?
what rax build revolves around getting stim pack at the earliest moment possible?
what rax build revolves around getting concussive shells at the earliest moment possible?
what rax build revolves around getting reaper w/nitro boost at the earliest moment possible?
i can't access liquid.net from work so i cant research these at the moment. but yea i think i wanna practice being very aggressive now with really good early harassment and very fast timing pushes.
no 1/1/1. i have that build down to a T
for example
what build allows me to get Hellions at the earliest moment possible?
what build allows me to get Blue Flame Hellions at the earliest moment possible?
what rax build revolves around getting stim pack at the earliest moment possible?
what rax build revolves around getting concussive shells at the earliest moment possible?
what rax build revolves around getting reaper w/nitro boost at the earliest moment possible?
i can't access liquid.net from work so i cant research these at the moment. but yea i think i wanna practice being very aggressive now with really good early harassment and very fast timing pushes.
Hey Omni, play me when I get back (~8-9 PM) tonight and I'll help you out.
Koala-T builds guaranteed.
Koala-T builds guaranteed.
ArcNatural
Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
I think one of the biggest things Idra does badly is prepare for possible engagements. So if he is on two base and the terran has been on 1 for a while, he will have barely any army and take a third and use ALL his larvae on the third, not taking any consideration of when a possible timing push is coming. I understand you want to stay low on min/gas but I feel like that's the nature of zerg. He's already ahead, he should be making some drones and saving larvae for the inevitable push that's coming.
I know none of these. But vs zerg learning the 4 hellion harass to banshee/cloaked banshee is a nice standard build (I think it's out of the 1/1/1 obviously. If the zerg doesn't remember to wall his ramp with queens or defend his natural you can do some dmg with hellions and flustering them, then catching them completely offgaurd with the banshee follow up.
I'm not talking about when he gets attacked the first time. I'm talking about all the times he's lost after fending off an attack, then proceeding to either waste units or not bother teching for a large portion of the game, eventually leading to an engagement of his max army against a superior max army. It's happened quite a bit against Protoss, actually. Easily hold off some 2-base timing, then lose to a 4-base Protoss.
Fortress | Sveet
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Well i can't give you specific numbers but i think its sorta common sense to figure out these builds.
Fastest hellions: supply, rax, gas, fact@100 gas, reactor on rax@50 gas, swap when fact done.
Blue flame: supply, gas, rax, gas, fact, tech lab, fact, reactor (2 fact blue flame)
Stim: supply, rax, gas, tech, stim (add in more barracks as needed)
Concussive shells: ^ same thing
nitro boost reaper: supply, gas, rax, fact, tech, nitro
Just build stuff as you need it.
Also, if you are really interested in weirdly optimized builds, check out this program http://code.google.com/p/scbuildorder/ which you input your goal (say dark shrine) and it will iterate through millions and millions of games to optimize the build to get your goal the fastest. There are also check boxes for continuous workers and you're able to set sequential goals.
Kenrawr
Smash Master
rotation? :D
Kay, kay.Hey Omni, play me when I get back (~8-9 PM) tonight and I'll help you out.
Koala-T builds guaranteed.
Let's play this evening!
Yeah, that's totally what I wanna' do.
*edit: Nice, Sveet. Yeah, it makes sense that way if I just think build the minimum requirements as fast as possible.
@Kenny: K. 1v1 Xel Naga Obs!
Fortress | Sveet
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heres a link to the program file, http://scbuildorder.googlecode.com/files/SCBuildOrderGUI_v9.1.exe
Cynan Machae
Smash Journeyman
Nate when can you play? I can play probably any evening or in the weekend but I'd prefer to know when you can cause I seldom idle in Sc2 anymore
Nasty_Nate
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2006
- Messages
- 1,164
now? Tomorrow? idk man i dont wanna commit to anything and be a flake
if u idle yours ill idle mine
if u idle yours ill idle mine
ArcNatural
Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
I'm hyped for the new season. I may finally break into plat judging on how my games have been going. I better win my placement match D:
Questions!
- Now that the Stimpack takes forever to upgrade is it probably more beneficial to get 2 Rax with w/2 Tech Labs instead of 1 if I'm going an early MMM push? That way I can upgrade Combat Shields/Concussive Shells and Stimpack without having to wait on one or the other.
- Also, what is generally the best way to harass workers early game in TvT?
- Is it ever a good idea to get 2 Bunkers if you successfully get 1 Bunker in a Bunker rush against Zerg?
- Regarding control groups. If I accidentally assign a building to the wrong number, how do I go about fixing this? Is there a way to remove buildings from a control group that was originally there?
- Now that the Stimpack takes forever to upgrade is it probably more beneficial to get 2 Rax with w/2 Tech Labs instead of 1 if I'm going an early MMM push? That way I can upgrade Combat Shields/Concussive Shells and Stimpack without having to wait on one or the other.
- Also, what is generally the best way to harass workers early game in TvT?
- Is it ever a good idea to get 2 Bunkers if you successfully get 1 Bunker in a Bunker rush against Zerg?
- Regarding control groups. If I accidentally assign a building to the wrong number, how do I go about fixing this? Is there a way to remove buildings from a control group that was originally there?
ArcNatural
Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
1. I'll let a terran answer this. I'm not sure if just making more units for the push or getting double ups is more effective.
2. Banshee, also forces them to either use scans instead of mules or AA. I don't really think anything else works as effectively for cost. But obviously blue flame hellion and normal drops work as well. Especially if you poke at his front with main force while dropping in the back.
If you practice just queuing up a drop (ie put 6 marines in medivac, queue it around the base and queue the drop at the mineral line and forget about it, then just watch the mini map and attack with your main force when the drop is close to draw his attention works really well. The only thing you have to watch for is if you get attacked before the drop to pull back, or if you have to quickly move your marines to make them attack scvs instead of buildings.
3. If you get one up and they don't make crawlers you can start staggering bunkers like you do siege tanks. It's good, but once a crawler is up the crawler out ranges so it's no longer effective.
4. If you put something in the wrong control group holding shift control and clicking on the unit in the hotkey tab will remove them from the group. So say I put banshees in my marine group on hotkey 3. I would press 3, control+shift click banshee, release shift (keep holding control) press 3 to make my hotkey 3 just marines again.
Makes sense. Which would make the 1/1/1 build good for this.
Wow, this is a really snazzy idea. I've gotta remember this.
I noticed Jinro puts pressure on the crawlers while they're being made by leaving the bunker and reentering.
ArcNatural
Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
Hence why once the crawlers ARE up it's ineffective, so by all means you want to prevent them from coming up if you manage to setup the first bunker and contain.
M@v
Subarashii!
You could also do a fast blue flame hellion drop in tvt, but I'd practice banshees first if I was you; you need a special build and good micro to do a fast blue flame drop.
Ladder reset :D
Now I can stay unranked forever :D
Now I can stay unranked forever :D