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Such Villainy!!! Should More Villains be included in Smash 4?

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jigglover

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Waluigi, the reason why Ghirahim has been in only one game, was because HE WAS CREATED IN THE LAST GAME! He can't be in 2 games when HIS ONLY APPEARANCE WAS IN THE NEWEST GAME! The next LoZ has barely any evidence (if any) that production for it has begun. I felt I had to put them in capitals, because you don't seem to understand otherwise, and it gets pretty annoying at times. It's like saying that Zoroark has no chance of getting in because he's only been in one game (well, black and white but they're basically the same) internationally released. Your logic isn't logical. And, as aforementioned, don't triple post.
 

Waluigi

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Waluigi, the reason why Ghirahim has been in only one game, was because HE WAS CREATED IN THE LAST GAME! He can't be in 2 games when HIS ONLY APPEARANCE WAS IN THE NEWEST GAME! The next LoZ has barely any evidence (if any) that production for it has begun. I felt I had to put them in capitals, because you don't seem to understand otherwise, and it gets pretty annoying at times. It's like saying that Zoroark has no chance of getting in because he's only been in one game (well, black and white but they're basically the same) internationally released. Your logic isn't logical. And, as aforementioned, don't triple post.
What the hell are you trying to say?? where in any former post did i mention a new zelda title coming out that didn't have ghirahim?? when did i mention a new zelda coming out in general?? also....WHY THE HELL ARE YOU TYPING WHOLE SENTENCES IN CAPS CAPS ARE NOT REQUIRED TO GET POINTS ACROSS!!! Truth is that i'm simply stating that UNTIL ghirahim is featured in a second zelda title in the future he should not get anything more than a trophy in ssb4 because that's what his secondary villain predecessor got (zant) Also zoroark.....really? that's you're comparison??
 

jigglover

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What the hell are you trying to say?? where in any former post did i mention a new zelda title coming out that didn't have ghirahim?? when did i mention a new zelda coming out in general?? also....WHY THE HELL ARE YOU TYPING WHOLE SENTENCES IN CAPS CAPS ARE NOT REQUIRED TO GET POINTS ACROSS!!! Truth is that i'm simply stating that UNTIL ghirahim is featured in a second zelda title in the future he should not get anything more than a trophy in ssb4 because that's what his secondary villain predecessor got (zant) Also zoroark.....really? that's you're comparison??
Hypocrite. Anyway, you were NOT saying that before about LoZ saying a new game, and I did not say that you did. For the final time, Ghirahim is hardly a successor to Zant, and Zoroark is a perfectly good comparison.
 

Waluigi

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Hypocrite. Anyway, you were NOT saying that before about LoZ saying a new game, and I did not say that you did. For the final time, Ghirahim is hardly a successor to Zant, and Zoroark is a perfectly good comparison.
Irony

anyway You Actually you did by bringing up the "production of zelda wii u has barely started" bit of info thus implying that i had said something about zelda wii u which i did not. also i never said that zant and ghirahim were linked........ in anything but role in the game that is.
Also there are a few reasons why zoroark is a bad comparison
1. he's a species not a specific character
2. Black and white 2 he has been in 2 games (4 technically) oh and conquest if i'm not mistaken 5
 

Venus of the Desert Bloom

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Both of ya got your panties in a tangle.
Keep the name calling and flaming down.

As for Ghirahim, there has been no evidence he will appear in a future game and, for that reason, he is similar to Skull Kid and Zant. However, Ghirahim is different due to him having a severely different plot element compared to those two and has the potential to make a return. Additionally, Skull Kid and Zant was defeated whereas Ghirahim is currently MIA. We don't know if he kick the bucket when he resureccted Demise. So who knows.? But at this point of time, he can be considered a one-off villain WITH potential to come back....which puts him into an entirely different category from Zant and Skull Kid.

Which also brings into question: Can Fi and Ghirahim actually "die"? No, I don't think so.
 

Wizzrobe

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Both of ya got your panties in a tangle.
Keep the name calling and flaming down.

As for Ghirahim, there has been no evidence he will appear in a future game and, for that reason, he is similar to Skull Kid and Zant. However, Ghirahim is different due to him having a severely different plot element compared to those two and has the potential to make a return. Additionally, Skull Kid and Zant was defeated whereas Ghirahim is currently MIA. We don't know if he kick the bucket when he resureccted Demise. So who knows.? But at this point of time, he can be considered a one-off villain WITH potential to come back....which puts him into an entirely different category from Zant and Skull Kid.

Which also brings into question: Can Fi and Ghirahim actually "die"? No, I don't think so.
Ghirahim did die. Ghirahim is Demise's sword, and after Link defeats Demise, the sword shatters which ends Ghirahim.
 
D

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Waluigi said:
While that may be true the point still holds that he hasn't appeared in a second title until then he needs to stay out as like it or not he's still in the same boat as the other one shot zelda villains just more recent.
Just being he's (currently) a one-shot doesn't mean that Ghirahim needs to stay out. Remember, this is the same character that set things in motion for all Zelda games to come and the reason why Ganondorf exist in the first place. Clearly, that's an important part of Zelda.
 
D

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I believe Ghirahim isn't coming back.
I mean, he became Demise's sword, then when you defeat Demise, you see the sword disintegrating.

However, Ghirahim IS an integral part to the Zelda story, being the one that set everything in motion. So even if he is a one-shot, I feel he's earned a spot.
 

TheJohnMonster

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What the hell are you trying to say?? where in any former post did i mention a new zelda title coming out that didn't have ghirahim?? when did i mention a new zelda coming out in general?? also....WHY THE HELL ARE YOU TYPING WHOLE SENTENCES IN CAPS CAPS ARE NOT REQUIRED TO GET POINTS ACROSS!!! Truth is that i'm simply stating that UNTIL ghirahim is featured in a second zelda title in the future he should not get anything more than a trophy in ssb4 because that's what his secondary villain predecessor got (zant) Also zoroark.....really? that's you're comparison??
Well the two villains are different, and since he is such a strange, and well, fabulous character, he has a legitimate chance of getting in. And its true that while he was the spirit of demises sword, Ganondorf was a reincarnation of Demise's hatred(I think?), so it would make sense that his all powerful spirit sword would come back too. Ganondorf does wave a sword around in his taunts. Besides this is about villains, and Ghirahim would make a fabulous addition.
 

Waluigi

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Both of ya got your panties in a tangle.
Keep the name calling and flaming down.

As for Ghirahim, there has been no evidence he will appear in a future game and, for that reason, he is similar to Skull Kid and Zant. However, Ghirahim is different due to him having a severely different plot element compared to those two and has the potential to make a return. Additionally, Skull Kid and Zant was defeated whereas Ghirahim is currently MIA. We don't know if he kick the bucket when he resureccted Demise. So who knows.? But at this point of time, he can be considered a one-off villain WITH potential to come back....which puts him into an entirely different category from Zant and Skull Kid.

Which also brings into question: Can Fi and Ghirahim actually "die"? No, I don't think so.
If i recall correctly "sleep without end" is death...


Well the two villains are different, and since he is such a strange, and well, fabulous character, he has a legitimate chance of getting in. And its true that while he was the spirit of demises sword, Ganondorf was a reincarnation of Demise's hatred(I think?), so it would make sense that his all powerful spirit sword would come back too. Ganondorf does wave a sword around in his taunts. Besides this is about villains, and Ghirahim would make a fabulous addition.
Meh personally I liked zant considerably more his scenes where he beats the living **** outta things by waving genuinely pissed me off where as ghirahim's just had me stare at the screen thinking "what the..." and also the sword in TP wasn't even ganons it was the sages
 

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Yeah, Ghirahim shatters after Demise's defeat which would lead to his death. This is entirely speculation but isn't Ghirahim and Fi of the same race or similar races? It is entirely plausible that Ghirahim could still be alive as a disembodied spirit. It also begs to question if Fi is also dead as well since she is another character that can be brought back in a future LoZ game.

However, I retract my earlier statement and, in most cases, Ghirahim is dead or at least confined in some other realm. Though I don't think would decrease his chances as a playable character. I mean, besides a new version of Link or Zelda, what other NEW character can there be? (and I will strangle anyone who says Tingle). BTW, I actually don't support Ghirahim. Just playing devil's advocate.

What is everyone's thoughts on a 3rd party villain representing his of her series? Personally, I'd love to see a 3rd party villain such as Dracula, Kefka, M. Bison, Nightmare, Eggman, etc. Of course, the hero will always be more popular but it would be interesting if a evil villain came in and ****ed everyone's **** up.
 

Waluigi

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Better question do we NEED a new zelda rep?? Think about we have the big three what point is there in a fouth or fifth??
 

TheJohnMonster

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Better question do we NEED a new zelda rep?? Think about we have the big three what point is there in a fouth or fifth??
Thats why i don't get the big support for Tingle or Tetra, the main honchos are already in, Link, Ganondorf, and Zelda/Shiek. No need for a fourth, but if there is i want Ghirahim
 

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Ha...! All this Ghirahim talk and I wasn't alerted? And it's the same misguided talk I've had to snuff out in my thread with reason. I'll shed some light on everything for all of you, all I charge is your willingness to step into the light. Here we go:



On Ghirahim's Current Status

We cannot confirm or deny whether Ghirahim is dead or not, for simply, it was not said either way. But we can always conjecture, but even granting this level of speculation, there is more logic to thinking he is still alive, rather than not. Consider the way in which he "disintegrated", he did so after you sealed his master (actually, even before so). Not only was Ghirahim unharmed, but Demise was not put in a state that he was not in before. In fact, if Demise being sealed causes him to die, then the whole plot of Skyward Sword would cease to exist, eh? Not to mention, looking at the "disintegration" itself is ambiguous in and of itself, for it didn't look like a typical death, in fact it was rather understated compared to even most death's, but again speculation, but pointing out that there is more interpretation than certainty on the subject.

On any further appearances

Ghirahim does not rely on the above topic to sway in the way of "MIA" for him to appear again. Not at all, in fact, even if he is MIA, I'd predict we'd see him again not in the FUTURE but in the PAST. That's right, anyone who plays Skyward Sword will plainly know that Ghirahim and Demise have a past together, and Ghirahim has existed and served him in his initial reign. There has been official comment as well referring to past Link's before the Skyward Sword Link, as in, for some reason, we are made to note that Skyward Sword Link is not the beginning. Suggestive to say the least, which means Demise will be returning, especially considering he has his main appearance unaccounted for. So if Demise is there, and Ghirahim is alive and his weapon at that point... would we see him? The answer is yes.

On Zant

Comparing Zant to Ghirahim is like comparing an apple to an orange because they are both fruits. As others have said, Zant is decidedly one-shot, and had no intention of being hijacked in the end of the story, in fact there are those who were displeased with Ganondorf's role right at the end, but I won't address that directly. Zant also was not fleshed out and given as much attention to Ghirahim, this we can verify in three ways, (1) by the number of appearances (2) the degree to which he was fleshed out in comparison to Zant, and (3) Miyamoto saying that Ghirahim was designed to be remembered (for what reason, if there is to be a notable one, is unknown). Also looking onto the prior topic, one can know that while there is practically nil chance Zant will appear again, we can probably expect a Ghirahim appearance of some kind, or at least pin a higher probability on him.


Hmm... any objections?

As for the necessity for a new Zelda representative, that is highly controversial, and I can in no way state a case showing this necessity. He simply meets Sakurai's requirements and has demand, no more, no less. The best lead is Sakurai's prior intentions of adding in two Zelda characters to Brawl, comprising two of the seven forbidden data pieces on the disc, but the utter lack of information as to why they weren't added, or Sakurai's views on the topic, make it a bit wanting.
 

Waluigi

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Thats why i don't get the big support for Tingle or Tetra, the main honchos are already in, Link, Ganondorf, and Zelda/Shiek. No need for a fourth, but if there is i want Ghirahim
............ People legitimately support him??? I thought he was just a joke that was going around??
 

Venus of the Desert Bloom

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Better question do we NEED a new zelda rep?? Think about we have the big three what point is there in a fouth or fifth??
Yeah, I think we are due for an entirely new Zelda rep that is not a version of Link. Whether that be Ghirahim, Zant, Skull Kid (hopefully), Demise, Impa, or even Groose.

If you were to go by that logic, none of the series, save for Metroid and maybe F-Zero, do not deserve anymore reps.
 
D

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Better question do we NEED a new zelda rep?? Think about we have the big three what point is there in a fouth or fifth??
There isn't a single newcomer that is needed in order to help sales. We already got them. Even K. Rool, Mewtwo, and Ridley are "unnecessary" since the game would not be significantly affected negatively if one of them were left out (thought it might be a different story if all three were missing).

As for why there's a fourth Zelda rep, it's probably because Sakurai stated that having two Links is important or something like that. Either way, a chibi Link is going to stay in Smash.
Thats why i don't get the big support for Tingle or Tetra, the main honchos are already in, Link, Ganondorf, and Zelda/Shiek. No need for a fourth, but if there is i want Ghirahim
The amount of supporters for Tingle and Tetra are few overall. Compare that to Ghirahim, which has a decent fan base going for him in Smash.
 

Waluigi

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Yeah, I think we are due for an entirely new Zelda rep that is not a version of Link. Whether that be Ghirahim, Zant, Skull Kid (hopefully), Demise, Impa, or even Groose.

If you were to go by that logic, none of the series, save for Metroid and maybe F-Zero, do not deserve anymore reps.
It's kinda true I mean look around series like mario and kirby are scrapping the bottom of the barrel honestly ridley and little mac are the only "wow why were they not already playable characters" i can think of If a series just legitimately has no other characters of value it doesn't matter how popular they are.
 

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LOL, I totally made a similar thread back in the brawl days saying something similar about brawl.

and Arcadenik, if team Rocket with a Weezing get in, I will die. Because then my two fac pkmn, charizard and weezing, will be in smash.

RIDLEY FOR BRAWL
 

Venus of the Desert Bloom

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It's kinda true I mean look around series like mario and kirby are scrapping the bottom of the barrel I honestly ridley and little mac are the only "wow why were they not already playable characters" i can think of If a series just legitimately has no other characters of value it doesn't matter how popular they are.
I would hardly call Mario scrapping the bottom of the barrel for characters. They still have a few characters such as Toad, Rosalina, Bowser Jr, Geno, Waluigi, etc. I'd say these characters are fairly important to the Mario and Nintendo universe.

Yeah, some of the series such as Kirby and Star Fox are hitting their limit. However, it's logical that more characters will be added to pre-existing series as more and more Smash games come out. In the end, you are going to have to start pulling obscure characters out in order to fill in the roster. In that way, Sakurai will be scrapping the bottom of the Nintendo barrel in the end.

And in the end, it comes down whether a character deserves to be given a roster slot. Regardless how represented the series is. So while Mario has a good amount of possible characters, how many of them deserve a roster slot? So does Ghirahim deserve a roster slot? Possibly but we shall see how that turns out. IMO though, Zelda should be given a newcomer that is not a different version of Link in order to diversify the roster and bring new life into the Zelda lineup. I was fairly disappointed in Brawl when there wasn't a new Mario newcomer and felt the Mario lineup was stale and uninteresting. Again, personal preference. But this is for an different subject entirely and this thread is about the including or dismissing villains in the Smash 4 lineup.
 

Waluigi

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I would hardly call Mario scrapping the bottom of the barrel for characters. They still have a few characters such as Toad, Rosalina, Bowser Jr, Geno, Waluigi, etc. I'd say these characters are fairly important to the Mario and Nintendo universe.

Yeah, some of the series such as Kirby and Star Fox are hitting their limit. However, it's logical that more characters will be added to pre-existing series as more and more Smash games come out. In the end, you are going to have to start pulling obscure characters out in order to fill in the roster. In that way, Sakurai will be scrapping the bottom of the Nintendo barrel in the end.

And in the end, it comes down whether a character deserves to be given a roster slot. Regardless how represented the series is. So while Mario has a good amount of possible characters, how many of them deserve a roster slot? So does Ghirahim deserve a roster slot? Possibly but we shall see how that turns out. IMO though, Zelda should be given a newcomer that is not a different version of Link in order to diversify the roster and bring new life into the Zelda lineup. I was fairly disappointed in Brawl when there wasn't a new Mario newcomer and felt the Mario lineup was stale and uninteresting. Again, personal preference. But this is for an different subject entirely and this thread is about the including or dismissing villains in the Smash 4 lineup.
Good points but for mario but come on you gotta admit that besides jr (maybe) the remaining characters don't have half the importance of the current 4 their appearance doesn't make or break the game in the slightest. Same situation for many other series thier remaining characters don't have the sheen that characters like mario and pikachu have
 

Venus of the Desert Bloom

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Good points but for mario but come on you gotta admit that besides jr (maybe) the remaining characters don't have half the importance of the current 4 their appearance doesn't make or break the game in the slightest. they don't have the sheen that characters like mario and pikachu have
You are right. Adding Bowser Jr., Ghirahim, Krystal, etc won't make or break the game. However, it would add a little more diversity to the Smash 4 roster and new blood into the mix. IMO, I would much rather have Sakurai add some characters from previous franchises AND some characters from misc franchises in order to keep them balanced. EarthBound is a dead series, F-Zero is a dying series, Pokemon has the most amount of of reps, Star Fox is dying, Fire Emblem is putting out games but...oh...wait...they are all sword users, Donkey Kong has two reps left to add before they start scrapping the barrel, Kirby is just about there.

It will happen sooner or later. Oh and comparing the aforementioned characters to Mario and Pikachu ruins the argument. It is ridiculous to compare a supporting character to the main character/mascot of the series. Of course they lack the sheen. If that was the case, the roster wouldn't of been Smash 64 for the past two games.
 

Waluigi

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You are right. Adding Bowser Jr., Ghirahim, Krystal, etc won't make or break the game. However, it would add a little more diversity to the Smash 4 roster and new blood into the mix. IMO, I would much rather have Sakurai add some characters from previous franchises AND some characters from misc franchises in order to keep them balanced. EarthBound is a dead series, F-Zero is a dying series, Pokemon has the most amount of of reps, Star Fox is dying, Fire Emblem is putting out games but...oh...wait...they are all sword users, Donkey Kong has two reps left to add before they start scrapping the barrel, Kirby is just about there.

It will happen sooner or later. Oh and comparing the aforementioned characters to Mario and Pikachu ruins the argument. It is ridiculous to compare a supporting character to the main character/mascot of the series. Of course they lack the sheen. If that was the case, the roster wouldn't of been Smash 64 for the past two games.
Variety is good but nintendo has plenty more to offer in newer and retro series that would make the game plenty interesting They don't need to dig through already repped series to find interesting and unique characters. I agree with pretty much all you're points on the other series though star fox wii u may turn out good and f-zero is just really neglected.

Good point about mario and pikachu but the message still caries even a peach or bowser comparison to toad is a rather large leap.
 

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Rivals/anti-heroes don't really count as villains do they ?
I don't think Meta-Knight or Goroh do (even though I think I called Goroh a villain earlier in this thread), but I think Wolf could be considered both. Well, not an anti-hero, but a rival and villain. Wario and Waluigi could probably also count as both, but probably more on the side of anti-heroes. Although the way Wario was intepreted in Brawl was closer to villain.
 

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I don't think Meta-Knight or Goroh do (even though I think I called Goroh a villain earlier in this thread), but I think Wolf could be considered both. Well, not an anti-hero, but a rival and villain. Wario and Waluigi could probably also count as both, but probably more on the side of anti-heroes. Although the way Wario was intepreted in Brawl was closer to villain.
Hm. Probably.
 

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I don't think Meta-Knight or Goroh do (even though I think I called Goroh a villain earlier in this thread), but I think Wolf could be considered both. Well, not an anti-hero, but a rival and villain.
Wolf did play an anti-hero role in Star Fox Assault by saving Fox from the Aparoids. He also distracted an Aparoid swarm that was defending the path to the Aparoid Queen.

Sure, Wolf's only reason for saving Fox is so that he can defeat him later, but Wolf's actions in Star Fox Assault do show that he has respect for Fox.
 
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That is actually the same problem in the Donkey Kong series, besides K.Rool, they are all monkeys and gorillas, or chimpanzees.
F-Zero also has the problem that none of them actually do anything outside their cars.
Except that Goroh has a sword and Black Shadow has been shown to have powers. (To which not even Falcon HIMSELF has shown any in the F-Zero series.)
 

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I've always had the general rule that if a rival is just genuinely trying to beat you at something like for example the rival in pokemon then there just a rival no matter how much of a jerk they may be. However if the rival attempts to kill or inflict harm to you then they could be considered a villain case and point star wolf.
 
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I've always had the general rule that if a rival is just genuinely trying to beat you at something like for example the rival in pokemon then there just a rival no matter how much of a jerk they may be. However if the rival attempts to kill or inflict harm to you then they could be considered a villain case and point star wolf.
Then what would that make Meta Knight?

He has both helped and tried to kill Kirby.
And unlike Dedede, he doesn't do friendly competitions with him.
 

Waluigi

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Then what would that make Meta Knight?

He has both helped and tried to kill Kirby.
And unlike Dedede, he doesn't do friendly competitions with him.
I would still count him as a villain i mean even bowser helps mario in the paper mario games. Is he suddenly now a good guy?? Not to mention playing sports with the gang on a regular basis. Though I must confess meta knight is less of a villain than bowser but you can't look over the fact he has still attempted to kill kirby a number of times.
 
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The problem is though, Meta Knight is not evil.
Whenever he does anything "bad" it's for good reason.

Such as in "Revenge of Meta Knight" he tried to take over Planet Popstar.
Reason? To end the peoples' lazy lifestyles so that they can defend themselves from future evil attacks.

Other times, he does good (or attempts to) such as in Amazing Mirror, the Mirror World was causing chaos and he went to try to stop it.

Meta Knight is anti-hero at worst. And anti-hero is kind of a gray area anyway.
 

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he's definitely no mario or link or even samus even if you intend to do good doesn't mean you're a hero many horrible crimes have been committed by people who thought they were doing the right thing does that make their actions any less horrible?? Same situation with meta knight
 
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Again, what has he done that is so horrible?
There are more times he has done good than "bad".

Adventure/Nightmare in Dream Land: Worked for Dedede to keep the Star Rod seperated. "Bad". (Although, it was revealed that keeping the Star Rod seperated prevented Nightmare from returning, which was Dedede's intention. So it was actually Good.)
Super Star: Revenge of Meta Knight; tried to take over Dream Land. "Bad". In Super Star Ultra, there is "Meta Knightmare Deluxe", which has him testing his ability, then challenging the "greatest warrior in the galaxy". Neutral.
Amazing Mirror: Tries to stop the Mirror World from causing chaos. Good.
Squeak Squad: Steals the Treasure Chest with Kirby's cake. "Ba-wait a minute. Said chest did NOT contain Kirby's cake after all, but Dark Nebula, who Meta Knight was trying to keep sealed. Good.
Canvas Curse: Possessed by Yin-Yarn. Neutral.
Return to Dream Land: Assists Kirby through the entire game. Good.

Again, Meta Knight is anti-hero at worst.
He is a hero that is not against doing "bad" for the sake of good.

Calling Meta Knight a villain would be the same as calling Batman a villain.
 

Waluigi

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Again, what has he done that is so horrible?
There are more times he has done good than "bad".
Conquering pop star
Attempting to kill kirby numerous times
Sacrifices hundreds of his own soldiers lives to test a puff ball's will

He has done good things mind you like you have stated but that doesn't take away the injustice of his misdeeds

Adventure/Nightmare in Dream Land: Worked for Dedede to keep the Star Rod seperated. "Bad". (Although, it was revealed that keeping the Star Rod seperated prevented Nightmare from returning, which was Dedede's intention. So it was actually Good.) Attempts to kill kirby

Super Star: Revenge of Meta Knight; tried to take over Dream Land. "Bad". In Super Star Ultra, there is "Meta Knightmare Deluxe", which has him testing his ability, then challenging the "greatest warrior in the galaxy". Neutral. why does that matter it's like saying he went to the gym

Amazing Mirror: Tries to stop the Mirror World from causing chaos. Good. dark side attempts to kill kirby

Squeak Squad: Steals the Treasure Chest with Kirby's cake. "Ba-wait a minute. Said chest did NOT contain Kirby's cake after all, but Dark Nebula, who Meta Knight was trying to keep sealed. Good. attempts to kill kirby

Canvas Curse: Possessed by Yin-Yarn. Neutral.

Return to Dream Land: Assists Kirby through the entire game. Good.

Again, Meta Knight is anti-hero at worst.
He is a hero that is not against doing "bad" for the sake of good.

Calling Meta Knight a villain would be the same as calling Batman a villain.
 
D

Deleted member

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Conquering pop star
Attempting to kill kirby numerous times
Sacrifices hundreds of his own soldiers lives to test a puff ball's will

He has done good things mind you like you have stated but that doesn't take away the injustice of his misdeeds
1. He never conquered Popstar.
2. The only time he attempted to kill Kirby was Revenge of Meta Knight. Every other time, it was to defeat him in combat or just get him away. And that is very limited.
3. His soldiers sacrifice themselves WILLINGLY. Hell, even in Revenge of Meta Knight, some even decide to stay alongside Meta Knight for one final showdown with Kirby rather than evacuate the Halberd, which Meta Knight ordered his crew to do.

Again, trying to say Meta Knight is a villain is like saying Batman is a villain, and Batman has done much worse.

EDIT: He didn't try to kill Kirby in Adventure or Squeak Squad. He only wanted to stop Kirby from unsealing Nightmare and Dark Nebula by defeating him. Killing him only came up in Revenge of Meta Knight.
Also, you can't use someone's evil copy as a point that they are evil. Otherwise, I can say Link is evil because of Dark Link.

EDIT: And I should point out that Kirby caused mass genocide over a piece of cake.
 
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