TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

[payasofobia]

More like a reversal. Realisticaly, a counter is that, countering your opponent's move with something that puts him at a disadvantage. Not sending the attack back at him with triple strenght.


Think....Ike's counter without the * 1.2 attack bonus. And counter helps Ike's spacing.

you still have the mindset that he is fragile which he isn't

His stats and lack of muscles say otherwise.

Wario has better what?

Exactly.

*smirk* :hipsmile:

 

[day-day]

Oh, I was just going by what the moves description stated on Serebii since we have pulled a couple of moves from there before haven't we? I may be wrong.
I think a Lucario's first instinct is defense and he'll most likely reverse all if not most of Wario's moves.

 

[UncleSam]

this is what happenes if Wario tries charging at Luc.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYKrhfFo8Qo&feature=channel
Lucario can do whatever from that point

EDIT: lucario's max attack is 350 and speed 306 <--- technically he is in the top 100, Serebii is just dumb

 

[payasofobia]

But Wario is too big for Lucario to do that. And Wario charges at the opponent in a......ballish way.


The size difference is completely different and it would probably be like reversing a rolling rock.

 

[day-day]

Lucario could just about do what he wants to Wario if he pulled that move on him. He could do that when Wario tries to charge at him.
Lucario could shift over and move around him quickly and use that move.

Edit: Uh oh, Ed's at 666 post..that's a sign of devil eddy coming to give me advice lol

 

[payasofobia]

But of course, that was not the point of my post. The point is that Wario is far from being slow and could catch up with lucario.

 

[UncleSam]

But Wario is too big for Lucario to do that. And Wario charges at the opponent in a......ballish way.


They are not the same size.

there is more than one option than just that
in the video you put your body weight on top of your opponents neck collapsing him, if Wario resists, his neck can be forfeit, no human, can last that much pressure on their necks without support from their arms, ect.
the sprawl prevents your opponent from supporting the weight

But of course, that was not the point of my post. The point is that Wario is far from being slow and could catch up with lucario.

dude play a wario game, wario is slow...

 

[payasofobia]

Wario has very muscular arms, and like I said, the weight and size difference aside from the way Wario charges is completely different from that video.

In that video the guy charged at the foe's lower body, in this fight Wario's charge is going to go at Lucario's whole body and lucario would need to be bigger than Wario to pull off that move.


It would be like reversing a rolling boulder...


And dude, use his super charging attack. In that move he is actually running, because he usualy walks in his games.

 

[UncleSam]

Wario has very muscular arms, and like I said, the weight and size difference aside from the way Wario charges is completely different from that video.

In that video the guy charged at the foe's lower body, in this fight Wario's charge is going to go at Lucario's whole body and lucario would need to be bigger than Wario to pull off that move.

whenever wario charges, he can only go in one direction, he can't change it, lucario can just as easily get out of the way and attack

 

[payasofobia]

You can change directions when you run, can you not?

 

[UncleSam]

You can change directions when you run, can you not?

that isn't going to stop lucario from getting out of the way, lucario sees it coming, wario doesn't know what lucario is going to do at that moment

 

[day-day]

Yes you can but wouldn't it be harder if your running that fast with that much acceleration?

 

[tocador]

How can lucario throw someone 100 kilograms heavier then him?

Fights are divided into weight restrictions by one reason. I do jyu-jitsu and i live with that. When i fight someone like, 40-50 killograms heavier then me, most of the time i cant do ****, just because he is THAT MUCH heavier/stronger then me.

I wont lie, some times i can pull stuff out, but mainly, his strenght is sometimes way more then i can surpass.

As i said, this isnt impossible, but a very up-hill battle, fighting someone 40-50 killograms heavier then you.

And, in real life, breaking out of good grab is somewhat real hard, you dont just "mash buttons" and brake free.

As in, how can you bit someone in your back? And really, have you ever seen any real mma fight? Why do you think they usually get destroyed by big-wrestling guys, like Brock lesnar/Fedor emilienko?

 

[UncleSam]

Yes you can but wouldn't it be harder if your running that fast with that much acceleration?

harder to what get out of the way?
I said lucario sees it coming, he can dodge before Wario makes contact, you guys are all saying lucario is small, it's hard to hit a small, moving target with an obvious attack

 

[day-day]

harder to what get out of the way?
I said lucario sees it coming, he can dodge before Wario makes contact, you guys are all saying lucario is small, it's hard to hit a small, moving target with an obvious attack

I was replying to payasofobia but yeah that's what I meant, get out of the way. Would be hard to hit something with your shoulder that small before you get tired and out of breath

 

[UncleSam]

How can lucario throw someone 100 kilograms heavier then him?

I never said throw, have you done a tomoe nage?
it requires the momentum of your opponent

 

[day-day]

Lucario may not be built like Wario but I'm pretty sure he can pick up and throw heavy things about twice his weight.
Wario's kind of like the juggernaut. Once he starts it's going to take awhile before he's able to slow down

 

[adumbrodeus]

@Adumb: You cant prove someone thinner and smaller then wario is stronger than him.

As i said wario is like a sumo fighter, where lucario is this 15 years old, small and skinny, karate fighter.

You're totally wrong.

He's a human, humans are weak relative to the animal kingdom. We discussed this already.


Check the diddy match-up, please.

And yet, we see Samus fighting two people at once, and then notice four people getting knocked around when it shows from Adam Malkovich's perspective. They're not taking turns to stop Samus.

Out of THAT crowd?

But, I don't see why the Galactic Federation would hire weak and stupid people.

Exactly.

Tell me that's heavy.

The length of the sword isn't even long. If she was holding claymore, sure, I might agree with you.

You've obviously never held a sword before.

That's a type of longsword, and it's MAAAD heavy, you've gotta be trained to hold it.


Also, the weight issue was to prove that it was a real sword. If she was just using a sword for show, it would be ceremonial and weighted differently.

Like, how Zelda is holding it? Big deal. I could do that, too. It doesn't make me a swordsman. Furthermore, why didn't Zelda show her prowess with the sword? Because she was afraid of death?

But you wouldn't KNOW how to do it properly if you weren't a swordsman. If you try to imitate, it would be noticeable. You need multiple lessons in order to hold your stances consistently (that's what most good martial arts schools will start with), and if you just train in the stances, why did she pull it out in battle?

If it's just for show, she's got weapons that she could actually USE (bow and arrow), it's stupid, and Zelda is an uber-genius, she'd never eschew practicality like that in a combat situation.


But despite her abilities, it was an utterly hopeless battle, Zelda is a genius, she recognized it, and surrendered to protect Hyrule from further damage.

You can change directions when you run, can you not?

Wario's got momentum issues, even though he might be able to run fast, changing directions for him is HORRIBLE.

How can lucario throw someone 100 kilograms heavier then him?

Fights are divided into weight restrictions by one reason. I do jyu-jitsu and i live with that. When i fight someone like, 40-50 killograms heavier then me, most of the time i cant do ****, just because he is THAT MUCH heavier/stronger then me.

I wont lie, some times i can pull stuff out, but mainly, his strenght is sometimes way more then i can surpass.

As i said, this isnt impossible, but a very up-hill battle, fighting someone 40-50 killograms heavier then you.

And, in real life, breaking out of good grab is somewhat real hard, you dont just "mash buttons" and brake free.

As in, how can you bit someone in your back? And really, have you ever seen any real mma fight? Why do you think they usually get destroyed by big-wrestling guys, like Brock lesnar/Fedor emilienko?

He's stronger, AND you never use strength to do throws, that's just idiotic.

I've thrown people far heavier then me, because of a simple fact.


YOU THROW USING YOUR OPPONENT'S WEIGHT AND MOMENTIUM

 

[tocador]

I never said throw, have you done a tomoe nage?
it requires the momentum of your opponent

I dont know what a tomoe nage is ^^. But i can imagine is "when someone rushes into you, get out of their way and use their momentuum to knock them off".

Whatever lucario can do to knock wario down(besides kicking), wario can do 2x stronger.

@Adumb: Trying throwing someone 60 killograms at the ground, withought they charging at you like morons.

I know what you are saying, and that "bla bla bla bla master fen shui told me about". Thats crap, i practice martials arts for 8 years now, i have RL experience. I can tell you, when someones a ton heavier then you are, and they arent morons, its almost impossible to knock them off with a "throw".

"But lucario can use momentum and stuff", so can wario. But thats the weird part, wario dosent even need lucarios help to knock him off, it is WAY easier for wario to knock lucario off then the opposite. Lucario is weak, and his bone structure is kinda fragile. Plus he is more then 60 killograms lighter(sorry for misspelling) and way smaller.

If lucario charges, a single punch can knock him down, and landing a punch isnt hard.

Lucario is in trouble, really, the only way for him to overcome his weakness is going to be punished, because wario is stronger =/.

Lucario is basically the size of a small teennager, while wario is a sumo fighter. So really, how the **** can he be stronger then wario? And plus, what momentum someone still has?

If strenght dosent matter, why are there weeght division in fighting tourneys? I mean, they are just bigger then you, buy you can overcome that with magical kung fu cant you?

 

[UncleSam]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7Lnq3asIc4

this video tocador

 

[payasofobia]

Can you position yourself properly to do a tomoe nage at an opponent the size of Wario when you are almost twice as small as him?

And is the tomoe nage really that effective considering it is more like a throw than a reversal?

 

[adumbrodeus]

Can you position yourself properly to do a tomoe nage at an opponent the size of Wario?

And is the tomoe nage really that effective considering it is more like a throw than a reversal?

Yes. It gives you their leg (which is REALLY nasty if you know what to do with them) it hits their head REALLY hard, and it's all based on body weight, it requires almost no force.


I use it all the time, it's a great counter to clinches, catch the knee and they're done, move onto grappling.

 

[day-day]

I'm positive that Wario landing on his back will do something to him. Lucario could just as easily launch another attack at Wario soon as he hit's the ground as Wario won't know what happened.

 

[payasofobia]

Sure, it uses the body weight as a counter. But is it really going to harm Wario that much considering he is probably not that heavy?

He may tower above Lucario, but he is still the size of a small person, which would diminish the strenght of the blow.

If Lucario could reversal an elephant, then yes, but wario probably has below-average/ average weight for a human.

 

[adumbrodeus]

I'm positive that Wario landing on his back will do something to him. Lucario could just as easily launch another attack at Wario soon as he hit's the ground as Wario won't know what happened.

Not on his back, on the back of his head. Check the video, head slings around the rest of the body and smashes into the ground.

This is a NASTY throw.

 

[day-day]

Whoops, I need to watch the vid again. If landed on his head then Wario would be down and out if the impact snaps his spine.
Edit: That is quite the nasty throw.

 

[payasofobia]

That is if the person is properly proportioned.

Wario is out of propotion and would require more testing to see if it hits lower part of the back of his head.

 

[UncleSam]

Whoops, I need to watch the vid again. If landed on his head then Wario would be down and out if the impact snaps his spine.
Edit: That is quite the nasty throw.

and it requires very little effort

 

[tocador]

and it requires very little effort

I know that move :D, just with another name. Portuguese name :B.

It is not that easy.

Call someone with 3 times your weight, and try doing this on him.

Mad props to you if you can.

ps:When did lucario learn judo?

Edit: Lucario isnt really able to do that move easily, he is like, too small. Imagine someone that its as high as your chest only, trying to do so.

 

[Memorable_Random_Guy]

Does the tomoe nage really work against someone twice your size?

I understand if it works on someone bigger than you, but does it work on someone twice as big as you?


Wouldn't your timing and positioning get skewered because of the much higher position of their knees and stomach compared to yours?

And the fact that Wario has a weird Knee and stomach positioning?

 

[tocador]

Does the tomoe nage really work against someone twice your size?

I understand if it works on someone bigger than you, but does it work on someone twice as big as you?


Wouldn't your timing and positioning get skewered because of the much higher position of their knees and stomach compared to yours?

And the fact that Wario has a wird Knee and stomach positioning?

This is what im trying to make them understand.

And wario isnt twice the size of lucario only. He is like "trice" the weight of him too, meaning its even harder to do it.

 

[payasofobia]

Edit: Lucario isnt really able to do that move easily, he is like, too small. Imagine someone that its as high as your chest only, trying to do so.

Smaller actually. Just as high as your hips.

 

[adumbrodeus]

That is if the person is properly proportioned.

Wario is out of propotion and would require more testing to see if it hits lower part of the back of his head.

Not really, it pivots on the center of the body before release, the furtherest outward point will ALWAYS hit first.

I know that move :D, just with another name. Portuguese name :B.

It is not that easy.

Call someone with 3 times your weight, and try doing this on him.

Mad props to you if you can.

ps:When did lucario learn judo?

Edit: Lucario isnt really able to do that move easily, he is like, too small. Imagine someone that its as high as your chest only, trying to do so.

I've done it on people about twice my weight.

Again, look at the mechanics of the move, it's about grabbing the opponent's leg forcing their weight to be on the other leg (aka, little strength), and then doing a sweep (which does not oppose their weight) which requires little strength.

Honestly, if you having trouble with it just because somebody weights more then you, even if it's like 3 times more, you're doing it wrong.


Also, we already did a height comparison, Wario's short, lucario isn't that much shorter then he is.

Does the tomoe nage really work against someone twice your size?

I understand if it works on someone bigger than you, but does it work on someone twice as big as you?


Wouldn't your timing and positioning get skewered because of the much higher position of their knees and stomach compared to yours?

And the fact that Wario has a wird Knee and stomach positioning?

Yes, it does. I'm a mad tall guy, and I have some friends who I train with who are mad short. They can execute it on me flawlessly, they just have to hold the leg a little higher. It works on fat people too (again, speaking from experience). Just look at the mechanics of the move, that should tell you this.

 

[Memorable_Random_Guy]

That's the problem with those videos.

They are showing those moves against people with similar size and builds. Wario is much bigger than Lucario, has a much different proportion and is a fatass.

 

[adumbrodeus]

That's the problem with those videos.

They are showing those moves against people with similar size and builds. Wario is much bigger than Lucario, has a much different proportion and is a fatass.

But just look at it mechanically. The adjustment is pretty easy to do.

 

[payasofobia]

Not left for space.

Weight is not the only problem, its height and positioning, which would make it really hard or impossible to do the move properly.


And are you twice as big as your friends? And are you twice as muscular as them? Because unless that is the case, using you as an example is bad because Lucario is extremely light and Wario is both much bigger and heavier than him.

 

[day-day]

119 lbs. is light? Not sure if stated already but Lucario's 4 ft. He's not that much shorter than Wario.

 

[tocador]

Not really, it pivots on the center of the body before release, the furtherest outward point will ALWAYS hit first.





I've done it on people about twice my weight.

Again, look at the mechanics of the move, it's about grabbing the opponent's leg forcing their weight to be on the other leg (aka, little strength), and then doing a sweep (which does not oppose their weight) which requires little strength.

Honestly, if you having trouble with it just because somebody weights more then you, even if it's like 3 times more, you're doing it wrong.


Also, we already did a height comparison, Wario's short, lucario isn't that much shorter then he is.



Yes, it does. I'm a mad tall guy, and I have some friends who I train with who are mad short. They can execute it on me flawlessly, they just have to hold the leg a little higher. It works on fat people too (again, speaking from experience). Just look at the mechanics of the move, that should tell you this.

I know thats truth. I've did it myself sometimes. But noone of them were agaisnt people like, twice my weight.

Really adumb, if you are a tall fighter, you must weight at least 80 killograms(i dont know pound-weight, sorry), and twice that is 160, and i really dont think you ever throw someone that heavy.

Weight matters alot in fight's. If you fight on tourneys you will know, its almost impossible to win a fight against someone two to tree times your size, thats why there are weight divisions on tourneys. And this is pretty much the battle lucario needs to win right now.

And, what fight do you practice, judo? I practice jyu-jitsu, i think judo is "too slow" for me xP. Like, no submissions and stuff, i like the "two man huggin each other" more then "let me trip you and win" fight-style.

119 lbs. is light? Not sure if stated already but Lucario's 4 ft. He's not that much shorter than Wario.

He is 3.11, wario is like, 5.2.

Edit: Dam, MRG ninja'd me =/.

 

[Memorable_Random_Guy]

He is 3.11 ft high.

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Lucario_(Pokémon)


And compared to wario, which could weight anywhere from 180-220, the difference is a big one.


FIXED THE LINK!

 

[day-day]

He is 3.11 ft high.

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Lucario_(Pokémon)


And compared to wario, which could weight anywhere from 180-220, the difference is a big.


FIXED THE LINK!

Oh, I was going by serebii. You might as well call him 4 ft. anyway lol