Kuro~
Nitoryu Kuro
PIT MATCHUP THREAD
Okay so i will be the new master of the mu. You can find the old thread here---> http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=197115
This WILL be finished.
For new pits i highly suggest the following readings~
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=181610 this is EXTREMELY helpful for new pits. Helped me conceptually alot when i first started pit.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=190383 this is one of my all time favorite reads for pit. As it improved my game in many areas through a chainreaction and helped me in mu's.
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each character will be added and the summary under the picture. The links to each discussion will be here--->
FINISHED Matchups
+0 for Pit
48:52 Marths favor. Can also be 45:55 but all that matters is that marth does have an advantage. A -1 For pit
Dedede mu summary +0
Zero suit samus mu summary
Pit vs zss is a +0 or 50:50
+0
Lucario mu summary
[collapse="pikachu mu summary"]text[/collapse]
[COLLAPSE="Wario mu summary"]text[/collapse]
[collapse="Peach mu summary"]text[/collapse]
[collapse="Wolf mu summary"]text[/collapse]
Okay so i will be the new master of the mu. You can find the old thread here---> http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=197115
This WILL be finished.
For new pits i highly suggest the following readings~
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=181610 this is EXTREMELY helpful for new pits. Helped me conceptually alot when i first started pit.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=190383 this is one of my all time favorite reads for pit. As it improved my game in many areas through a chainreaction and helped me in mu's.
-2:
-1:
0:
1:
2:
3:
________________
each character will be added and the summary under the picture. The links to each discussion will be here--->
FINISHED Matchups
+0 for Pit
To start this off lets list each character advantages over each other.
Pit:
1. Chaingrab at the beginning can easily lead to 40%-50% lead right off the bat.
2. even though neither really “outcamps” each other, Pit’s arrows **** fox off stage.
3. Pit overall out ranges fox.
4. Pit is pretty much the only one who will be getting gimps in this MU due to his vastly superior recovery.
5. Jab and AR wreck shop near the edge and on stage when used right.
6. Planking>fox
Fox:
1. DJC (double jab cancel), Dair, and Nair all lead into true combos for damage and kills.
2. Fox kills us way earlier with his oh so reliable usmash.
3. he is faster than us and his reflector stops camping to a certain extent.
4. He can gimp us on stages like YI and PK Stadiums (where we can’t go around).
Overall while this is a pretty even MU there are a few things which allow pit to generally win this match up both on and off stage.
ON Stage:
Since everyone knows the ramifications that CGs have in any match lets just focus on normal gameplay. On stage your jab and your dtilt are going to be your best friends as you will be using them a lot. These keep fox away from you while constantly allowing you to reset spacing. Also sh nair and just using fair in general is pretty effective as a mix up. Fox will most likely try to grab a lot so always watch out for that. Also juggling with uair, usmash, utilt, and throws are pretty effective here however you must not get hit by his dair or you will eat a lot of damage from any of the things it combos into. In the air while our aerials over all outranges his none of his aerials are to be under estimated. Obviously nair and dair combo and such, his uair and bair are effective kill moves, and his fair can damage AND kill if used properly. However our nair eats his moves for breakfast. Also fair is a great spacer and bair can used to get kills and gimps if he is offstage.
OFF STAGE
A fox off stage is a dead fox when playing pit. While he can shine stall to help deal with arrows, the fact is when he uses a jump or recovery move our arrows shut him down. Also AR both when held in the line of his phantasm stops him and his recovery in his tracks. Mirror shield reflects fire fox. If he is recovering from below a fast falled bair will gimp or stage spike almost every time (unless they are a god of teching).
MISC.:
• A lot of foxes abuse their dair and can become predictable. Shield Grab>fox’s dair.
• While he has a reflector, do not count arrows out completely.
• Fox’s shine shenanigans can allow him to gimp your WOI if you are not care as without something to stop his recovery he can recover from just about anywhere with fox copter and fire fox.
in the end this is not a terribly advanced match up and as such does not require as big a summary as some of the others.
Pit:
1. Chaingrab at the beginning can easily lead to 40%-50% lead right off the bat.
2. even though neither really “outcamps” each other, Pit’s arrows **** fox off stage.
3. Pit overall out ranges fox.
4. Pit is pretty much the only one who will be getting gimps in this MU due to his vastly superior recovery.
5. Jab and AR wreck shop near the edge and on stage when used right.
6. Planking>fox
Fox:
1. DJC (double jab cancel), Dair, and Nair all lead into true combos for damage and kills.
2. Fox kills us way earlier with his oh so reliable usmash.
3. he is faster than us and his reflector stops camping to a certain extent.
4. He can gimp us on stages like YI and PK Stadiums (where we can’t go around).
Overall while this is a pretty even MU there are a few things which allow pit to generally win this match up both on and off stage.
ON Stage:
Since everyone knows the ramifications that CGs have in any match lets just focus on normal gameplay. On stage your jab and your dtilt are going to be your best friends as you will be using them a lot. These keep fox away from you while constantly allowing you to reset spacing. Also sh nair and just using fair in general is pretty effective as a mix up. Fox will most likely try to grab a lot so always watch out for that. Also juggling with uair, usmash, utilt, and throws are pretty effective here however you must not get hit by his dair or you will eat a lot of damage from any of the things it combos into. In the air while our aerials over all outranges his none of his aerials are to be under estimated. Obviously nair and dair combo and such, his uair and bair are effective kill moves, and his fair can damage AND kill if used properly. However our nair eats his moves for breakfast. Also fair is a great spacer and bair can used to get kills and gimps if he is offstage.
OFF STAGE
A fox off stage is a dead fox when playing pit. While he can shine stall to help deal with arrows, the fact is when he uses a jump or recovery move our arrows shut him down. Also AR both when held in the line of his phantasm stops him and his recovery in his tracks. Mirror shield reflects fire fox. If he is recovering from below a fast falled bair will gimp or stage spike almost every time (unless they are a god of teching).
MISC.:
• A lot of foxes abuse their dair and can become predictable. Shield Grab>fox’s dair.
• While he has a reflector, do not count arrows out completely.
• Fox’s shine shenanigans can allow him to gimp your WOI if you are not care as without something to stop his recovery he can recover from just about anywhere with fox copter and fire fox.
in the end this is not a terribly advanced match up and as such does not require as big a summary as some of the others.
48:52 Marths favor. Can also be 45:55 but all that matters is that marth does have an advantage. A -1 For pit
Stages to aim for:
FD
Smashville
Strike YI
BF/LYlat depending on your personal preference.
CPs:
Halberd
Delphino
FD
Pictochat
Rainbow Cruise
Frigate( the abover are 9/10 times better however)
Things to look out for:
He can UpB Out of our jab canceling combos(eg jab grab or jab jab grab or jab dtilt etc etc.) so if u think hes gonna do that Shield to PS it and then punish.
Stutter step fsmash. Seriously...be careful.
Shield breaker
Summary:
In this mu you really need to make marth work hard to get in. Arrows, arrows, and more arrows. Along with mixups like sh nair,fair,and dtilt.
Marth has amazing range on his sword. If he gets in close try to reset the situation asap in any way u can. One of the best ways to get him off your jock is the simple 1,2,3 jab combo(not infinite). He has frame traps with dtilt, DB, jab possibly so just watch out and know what u can punish. This mu is somewhat similar to MK mu in that you NEED to KNOW your options/punishes at ALL times. We can really camp marth hardcore with planking and arrows. YES u can plank marth u just need to pay attention to their movement so u know whether or not they are going for a tipper smash. Speaking of, like most of the cast marth has fthrow tipper smash on us at 0% just in case u didnt know. The thing we have that makes this mu as close as it is, is our ability to exploit marth's greatest weakness. Pressure from below is how we will handle marth for the majority. If you get a jab you should get a grab. If he wiffs go for a grab. My personal tried and true favorite is uthrow because while dthrow works as well uthrow sends them up higher creating more opportunities for juggling and dealing more damage in just the grab alone. This may seem like a daunting task with marths sword range and our flimsy standing grab range but just force him to approach with arrows, sh nairs and dtilt and the likes and you will cause mistakes. I cant stress enough how you must abuse arrows wisely as they create openings in what could be an otherwise flawless marth's gameplay. After the uthrow it's best to jump towards his di direction while pulling out an arrow this way you follow his movement while pressuring from below. After the arrow continue to either arrow pressure or go for the uair as its highly unlikely the marth will dair. Even if he does that thing lags so much u can simply dair him back or go and grab him again. If you predict an airdodge fastfall utilt(FRAME 2 BABY!!!!) or dair or bair if at kill %. I've gotten alot of kills off a forced airdodge to bair. It works wonders. Now, i have to say something. Most pit's advocate pits roll, however, marth's are always on the look out for rolls just like snakes. And with marth's dancing blade he has the means to punish many of the rolls. So that being said, if you want to reset your position, either roll very smartly( i mean really know what your opponent is going for) or go to the ledge and just go to the other side and play the waiting/planking game. If your shield is low/mid health PLEASE AND I MEAN PLEASE, be careful of two things;Shield breaker and stutterstep or regular fsmash. THESE WILL EITHER BREAK THE SHIELD(former) OR PIERCE IT ( Ladder) I being a marth main as well have gotten so many kills on shield poke tipper stutterstep fsmash. IT IS SOOOOOO GOOD! So know your spacing in comparison to marth at all times. Now as for CP's.
Halberd:Great sharking potential on the first part and it provides a way to avoid marth till the other beneficial(to camping) part. In the first part just plank. PLANK PLANK AND PLANK. Then the second part is long like FD this helps your camping game greatly. ABUSE IT. Hazards can mess up marth or help him pressure us more. Be careful. PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD SDI THAT DANG LASER LOL.The low room can lead to early kills by us with hypen usmash, uairs, fairs, bairs, dsmash, or fsmash. This stage helps our killing potential alot. However that being said, you have to be even more wary of two moves. The all priotized dolphin slash and the god forsaken tippers. A great CP nonetheless. One of the top choices to choose from.
Delphino: A more gimmicky version of halberd. It's really down to personal preference between the two. Simply treat this like you would halberd and plank when u can. Sharking is amazing. Just watch that you dont get stuck in the water as that might lead to some very early and unfortunate deaths cause of marth pressuring options once your in it( not to mention his spike).
FD: A very polar stage. Flat, long, high walls. Both characters live longer(pit is heavier though being one of the heavier midweights and will out survive marth for the most part). Pit can camp sooooooo hard here because its flatness and loooong length. If you choose hear know it will be a long campy battle (as it should) and you will come out on top.
Pictochat: a gimmicky FD. The gimmicks can help for kill set-ups with both characters and lead to some nice early kills. Pit benefits from several parts of this stage in camping potential(such as being inside the whale and camping-same goes for the building and mans face) the side spikes can lead to some nice kills as well.
Rainbow: You've seen marth vs mk here yes? its pretty much gonna be what all RC battles turn to. Running and taking advantage of each stage part while u can. I will say beware getting dtilt locked on the boat in the underhang on the right side. Other than that just run away and stay under marth at all times.
Frigate: Can mess up marth recovery and on second part we can camp the middle of the stage well due to the platform being there.
Ban YI/Battlefield as those are marth's two best stages to take us to. PS1 can be dangerous as well. So i'd say ban ps1/YI as BF is much more manageable. Ps2 marth has a real nice stalling gimmick on the air part. It's friggin hilarious but with our arrows he would probably get shot and die from being so high up. Ps2 is actually pretty useful for us. but not worth of a cp by us.
FD
Smashville
Strike YI
BF/LYlat depending on your personal preference.
CPs:
Halberd
Delphino
FD
Pictochat
Rainbow Cruise
Frigate( the abover are 9/10 times better however)
Things to look out for:
He can UpB Out of our jab canceling combos(eg jab grab or jab jab grab or jab dtilt etc etc.) so if u think hes gonna do that Shield to PS it and then punish.
Stutter step fsmash. Seriously...be careful.
Shield breaker
Summary:
In this mu you really need to make marth work hard to get in. Arrows, arrows, and more arrows. Along with mixups like sh nair,fair,and dtilt.
Marth has amazing range on his sword. If he gets in close try to reset the situation asap in any way u can. One of the best ways to get him off your jock is the simple 1,2,3 jab combo(not infinite). He has frame traps with dtilt, DB, jab possibly so just watch out and know what u can punish. This mu is somewhat similar to MK mu in that you NEED to KNOW your options/punishes at ALL times. We can really camp marth hardcore with planking and arrows. YES u can plank marth u just need to pay attention to their movement so u know whether or not they are going for a tipper smash. Speaking of, like most of the cast marth has fthrow tipper smash on us at 0% just in case u didnt know. The thing we have that makes this mu as close as it is, is our ability to exploit marth's greatest weakness. Pressure from below is how we will handle marth for the majority. If you get a jab you should get a grab. If he wiffs go for a grab. My personal tried and true favorite is uthrow because while dthrow works as well uthrow sends them up higher creating more opportunities for juggling and dealing more damage in just the grab alone. This may seem like a daunting task with marths sword range and our flimsy standing grab range but just force him to approach with arrows, sh nairs and dtilt and the likes and you will cause mistakes. I cant stress enough how you must abuse arrows wisely as they create openings in what could be an otherwise flawless marth's gameplay. After the uthrow it's best to jump towards his di direction while pulling out an arrow this way you follow his movement while pressuring from below. After the arrow continue to either arrow pressure or go for the uair as its highly unlikely the marth will dair. Even if he does that thing lags so much u can simply dair him back or go and grab him again. If you predict an airdodge fastfall utilt(FRAME 2 BABY!!!!) or dair or bair if at kill %. I've gotten alot of kills off a forced airdodge to bair. It works wonders. Now, i have to say something. Most pit's advocate pits roll, however, marth's are always on the look out for rolls just like snakes. And with marth's dancing blade he has the means to punish many of the rolls. So that being said, if you want to reset your position, either roll very smartly( i mean really know what your opponent is going for) or go to the ledge and just go to the other side and play the waiting/planking game. If your shield is low/mid health PLEASE AND I MEAN PLEASE, be careful of two things;Shield breaker and stutterstep or regular fsmash. THESE WILL EITHER BREAK THE SHIELD(former) OR PIERCE IT ( Ladder) I being a marth main as well have gotten so many kills on shield poke tipper stutterstep fsmash. IT IS SOOOOOO GOOD! So know your spacing in comparison to marth at all times. Now as for CP's.
Halberd:Great sharking potential on the first part and it provides a way to avoid marth till the other beneficial(to camping) part. In the first part just plank. PLANK PLANK AND PLANK. Then the second part is long like FD this helps your camping game greatly. ABUSE IT. Hazards can mess up marth or help him pressure us more. Be careful. PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD SDI THAT DANG LASER LOL.The low room can lead to early kills by us with hypen usmash, uairs, fairs, bairs, dsmash, or fsmash. This stage helps our killing potential alot. However that being said, you have to be even more wary of two moves. The all priotized dolphin slash and the god forsaken tippers. A great CP nonetheless. One of the top choices to choose from.
Delphino: A more gimmicky version of halberd. It's really down to personal preference between the two. Simply treat this like you would halberd and plank when u can. Sharking is amazing. Just watch that you dont get stuck in the water as that might lead to some very early and unfortunate deaths cause of marth pressuring options once your in it( not to mention his spike).
FD: A very polar stage. Flat, long, high walls. Both characters live longer(pit is heavier though being one of the heavier midweights and will out survive marth for the most part). Pit can camp sooooooo hard here because its flatness and loooong length. If you choose hear know it will be a long campy battle (as it should) and you will come out on top.
Pictochat: a gimmicky FD. The gimmicks can help for kill set-ups with both characters and lead to some nice early kills. Pit benefits from several parts of this stage in camping potential(such as being inside the whale and camping-same goes for the building and mans face) the side spikes can lead to some nice kills as well.
Rainbow: You've seen marth vs mk here yes? its pretty much gonna be what all RC battles turn to. Running and taking advantage of each stage part while u can. I will say beware getting dtilt locked on the boat in the underhang on the right side. Other than that just run away and stay under marth at all times.
Frigate: Can mess up marth recovery and on second part we can camp the middle of the stage well due to the platform being there.
Ban YI/Battlefield as those are marth's two best stages to take us to. PS1 can be dangerous as well. So i'd say ban ps1/YI as BF is much more manageable. Ps2 marth has a real nice stalling gimmick on the air part. It's friggin hilarious but with our arrows he would probably get shot and die from being so high up. Ps2 is actually pretty useful for us. but not worth of a cp by us.
Dedede mu summary +0
Stages to aim for:
Final Destination
Lylat
Strike YI/BF
Smashville is the most normal of all of these for this mu
CPs:
FD
Rainbow Cruise
Brinstar
Halberd
Delfino
Ban Ps1/YI/CS
Things to look out for:
Obviously one thing is his chaingrab. This will be a nice source of dmg for him. Also, for the love of god don’t get hit by the Gordo. You can literally mirror shield it on reaction because of how slow it moves. Utilt actually has invincibility frames and kills earlier than snakes. Pretty stupid huh? His spot dodge is uuber ******** because of its mechanics in relationship with the z-axis of brawl. It can dodge our whole nair. And only has 2 frames your able to punish with certain moves.
Summary:
Surprise surprise, guess what you’ll be doing a bunch of in this mu? CAMPING!!! So grab some marshmallows, turn up your focus, strengthen your resolve, and be ready to test your patience! Again arrows are our best tool in this mu because it forces approach and slows the game down to a pace we prefer. They also rack up damage and strengthen edge guarding ability. Mix in angel rings, SH ART’s, retreating FF fair (unpunishable even by dedede if spaced correctly, amazing right? :D) and full hop dairs. Other good assets for CQC are inf jab and utilt. So the majority of this mu will be spent with you camping and punishing looking for punishes. Once you get those punishes, CAPITALIZE, CAPITALIZE, And CAPITALIZE!!!! D3 is one fat ***** and he won’t die any time soon. So TAKE YOUR TIME. YOU DON’T HAVE TO KILL HIM EARLY AS LONG AS YOU ARENT TAKING AN ABUDNACE OF DAMAGE/DYING YOURSELF. We have a chain grab to around 47% on him as well so if you get a grab at low % go for it. Edge guarding and juggling is all important in this mu. His up-b is extremely susceptible to being edge guarded and if we get him in the air onstage we can juggle him real well. If you start to notice a pattern of him FF air dodging to avoid juggles fake-out a juggle and FF regrab instead. It’ll make him think twice. Planking/scrooging also ***** the crap out of dedede. He has almost no response to it. Just be wary of timeouts if you pass the LGL of ~50. Only use it to stay safe till you ARE safe and to get him off your back some. Pit is one of the hardest characters to CG so if he can’t cg you can ~65% of the time assume he doesn’t know the mu well. Which means he won’t know many of pit’s mixups most likely. However dedede is such a simple character he can win this mu without mu knowledge. Also, you can mirror shield his recovery BUT IT HAS TO BE ON HIS WAY DOWN and proceed to WoI to possibly gimp him. Also you can jab the waddle dees/doos to refresh your moveset. So ya, avoid his cg, camp hard, use CQ and SH mixups, edge guard and juggle is vital and KEEP PATIENT.
FD: A very polar stage which enables us to camp harder but extends D3’s lifespan quite a bit. One of the top choices.
Rainbow cruise: Forces Dedede in the air which is good for us and could give us (and him) early kills. Beware of the wall infinite on the boat part. The only downside to this stage is when it’s moving on the third part after the pendulum it changes the fighting style you can best use. Find what works for you. Also one of the best CPs.
Brinstar: A similar stage to rainbow except it can hinder our camping ability and doesn’t give as good juggling opportunities as RC. A viable choice but not one of the best. D3 is not as bad on this stage as people assume.
Halberd: Definitely a top counter pick. The first part enables amazing scrooging/planking very well and the second part enables camping to the likeness of FD except we can’t go under. We will kill (slightly) earlier here so that is somewhat of a bonus. But so can he and he has more viable kill moves than us so beware. Also, watch out for stage gimmicks.
Delfino: a more planking oriented stage than halberd. Is also much more high-risk, high-reward than halberd due to dedede walk offs.
Ps1: Low ceiling/walls, many opportunities to wall infinite, messes up our camping, can’t go under. Enough said. Bad. Ban it.
YI: another viable cp for dedede as the small stage enables him to close the gap much quicker.
CS: Not a bad cp if he takes you here. Plank the first part, run away on the top left/right platforms on the second part to avoid walk offs, and camp the third part. He’s pretty ignorant if he takes you here.
Final Destination
Lylat
Strike YI/BF
Smashville is the most normal of all of these for this mu
CPs:
FD
Rainbow Cruise
Brinstar
Halberd
Delfino
Ban Ps1/YI/CS
Things to look out for:
Obviously one thing is his chaingrab. This will be a nice source of dmg for him. Also, for the love of god don’t get hit by the Gordo. You can literally mirror shield it on reaction because of how slow it moves. Utilt actually has invincibility frames and kills earlier than snakes. Pretty stupid huh? His spot dodge is uuber ******** because of its mechanics in relationship with the z-axis of brawl. It can dodge our whole nair. And only has 2 frames your able to punish with certain moves.
Summary:
Surprise surprise, guess what you’ll be doing a bunch of in this mu? CAMPING!!! So grab some marshmallows, turn up your focus, strengthen your resolve, and be ready to test your patience! Again arrows are our best tool in this mu because it forces approach and slows the game down to a pace we prefer. They also rack up damage and strengthen edge guarding ability. Mix in angel rings, SH ART’s, retreating FF fair (unpunishable even by dedede if spaced correctly, amazing right? :D) and full hop dairs. Other good assets for CQC are inf jab and utilt. So the majority of this mu will be spent with you camping and punishing looking for punishes. Once you get those punishes, CAPITALIZE, CAPITALIZE, And CAPITALIZE!!!! D3 is one fat ***** and he won’t die any time soon. So TAKE YOUR TIME. YOU DON’T HAVE TO KILL HIM EARLY AS LONG AS YOU ARENT TAKING AN ABUDNACE OF DAMAGE/DYING YOURSELF. We have a chain grab to around 47% on him as well so if you get a grab at low % go for it. Edge guarding and juggling is all important in this mu. His up-b is extremely susceptible to being edge guarded and if we get him in the air onstage we can juggle him real well. If you start to notice a pattern of him FF air dodging to avoid juggles fake-out a juggle and FF regrab instead. It’ll make him think twice. Planking/scrooging also ***** the crap out of dedede. He has almost no response to it. Just be wary of timeouts if you pass the LGL of ~50. Only use it to stay safe till you ARE safe and to get him off your back some. Pit is one of the hardest characters to CG so if he can’t cg you can ~65% of the time assume he doesn’t know the mu well. Which means he won’t know many of pit’s mixups most likely. However dedede is such a simple character he can win this mu without mu knowledge. Also, you can mirror shield his recovery BUT IT HAS TO BE ON HIS WAY DOWN and proceed to WoI to possibly gimp him. Also you can jab the waddle dees/doos to refresh your moveset. So ya, avoid his cg, camp hard, use CQ and SH mixups, edge guard and juggle is vital and KEEP PATIENT.
FD: A very polar stage which enables us to camp harder but extends D3’s lifespan quite a bit. One of the top choices.
Rainbow cruise: Forces Dedede in the air which is good for us and could give us (and him) early kills. Beware of the wall infinite on the boat part. The only downside to this stage is when it’s moving on the third part after the pendulum it changes the fighting style you can best use. Find what works for you. Also one of the best CPs.
Brinstar: A similar stage to rainbow except it can hinder our camping ability and doesn’t give as good juggling opportunities as RC. A viable choice but not one of the best. D3 is not as bad on this stage as people assume.
Halberd: Definitely a top counter pick. The first part enables amazing scrooging/planking very well and the second part enables camping to the likeness of FD except we can’t go under. We will kill (slightly) earlier here so that is somewhat of a bonus. But so can he and he has more viable kill moves than us so beware. Also, watch out for stage gimmicks.
Delfino: a more planking oriented stage than halberd. Is also much more high-risk, high-reward than halberd due to dedede walk offs.
Ps1: Low ceiling/walls, many opportunities to wall infinite, messes up our camping, can’t go under. Enough said. Bad. Ban it.
YI: another viable cp for dedede as the small stage enables him to close the gap much quicker.
CS: Not a bad cp if he takes you here. Plank the first part, run away on the top left/right platforms on the second part to avoid walk offs, and camp the third part. He’s pretty ignorant if he takes you here.
Zero suit samus mu summary
Pit vs zss is a +0 or 50:50
Stages to aim for:
Final Destination
Lylat Cruise
Smashville
Strike Yoshis Island and Battle field. The difference between BF and SV is player-based. Strike whichever one you like less for the mu.
CPs:
Frigate Orpheon
Rainbow Cruise
Final Destination
Brinstar
Halberd
Delphino
Bans(in order best choice to least effective): PS2, PS1, Castle Siege, Brinstar, Halberd, YI. Player knowledge will help in knowing what to ban.
Things to look out for: Dsmash chain DOES NOT WORK!!!!! On pit. To prevent getting 50+ dmg when dsmashed at 0 HOLD UP TO DI OUT SO YOU CAN JUMP AWAY B4 THE NEXT DSMASH. Pivot grab can be annoying. Don’t die to her down b…please. Side B offstage=early kill so pay attention to her zoning and be ready. Her Dsmash while planking. Don’t ever, ever, ever try to shield grab a dsmash. 99% of the time it won’t reach and you’ll get followed up by a dsmash to dsmash to uair etc. etc.
Summary: First off, two things to talk about. Good reaction time is a god send in this matchup. It makes stuff like dsmash on shield, uair baits, bair baits, power shielding side-b all much easier to punish and/or realize in time. Second, learn how to utilize the pieces. Pit ***** with them sooooo hard when done CORRECTLY. Once he gets a piece it “should” be a stock that’s how amazing he is with them. Stuff like downthrow piece WoI to stop her momentum to bair or footstool to fsmash. He can do hella combos with insta-throwing and his multiple jumps. He can create legitimate walls that she can’t get passed so it makes reads that much easier. Gives him a good OoS option for any situation. A quick approach in Glide Toss. Pit is gonna be using a bunch of arrows, nair, dair, and ftilt in this match. Recongnize how she telegraphs her side-b and dair when she is. Dair’s awkward arcing hitbox can hit her b4 the side b can hit you if done right. Nair allows for a good anti-appraoch move. Your arrowing she’s approaching through, nair(or fh retreating dair). Ftilt’s range(rivaling snakes ftilt if not longer) is aaaaaammmmmmmaaaaaazing in this matchup. She thinks she can zone in on you? Pft ftilt that hoe. When you get her in the air treat her like snake. Juggle her all day. Use arrows to trap her into a bair. Bair kills her super early. Watch out for her uair. That **** is scary and dangerous and a serious threat to pit. Always be ready to hold down so you can PS her jab. Cuz if you don’t it makes this matchup that much harder. If she downsmashes your shield, you have enough time to Nair OoS. That’s your best option cuz it gives you the most leeway. Edge guarding is a must. If she likes to down-b footstool trick onto the stage be ready to upsmash and juggle as she down-b. If she likes to grab the ledge with side b arrows stop that. If she has to use up-b do a quick FF bair towards the stage and your likely to Stage spike her. That being said you won't likely gimp zss on a neutral, but you can edge guard her pretty well. She excels at mid-range so you want to be either in long range, or short range. We have moves to get us out of Mid-range safely such as dair, running, ftilt, nair.
Counterpicks:
Frigate Orpheon: Oh how I love thee, frigate orpheon. This stage is beast mode in this matchup. The first transformation is BEGGING TO GIMP HER. It’s so easy to gimp her at this part. The stage flips can hurt her super bad. The second part, we can camp under the middle platform nicely. The downward slants also give our bair a super awesome hitbox that sweetspots down and out and up. It makes it much easier to land a bair. The BEST cp once you learn it.
Rainbow Cruise: Similar to frigate in that it helps gimps, but her uair potential here and possible early kills for her are what makes this only the second best choice.
Final destination: No platforms to support her juggling you, long flat stage to camp, we are heavier than her and “should” live longer.
Halberd: The low ceiling assits her uair too much. Planking is effective but still a large hassle and large risk vs reward. Do it at your own risk. The second part is no different than FD besides the platform and hazards and low celing. All of which can support her. Which is what gives FD the edge over halberd.
Brinstar: Extended hitboxes, low celings/walls, lava combos, uair deaths. Not the best CP for us. But definitely has perks like super early bair kill and lava+WoI combos.
Delphino: See above statements about planking. Realize that’s what delphino is for. Don’t choose it.
Bans(in order of best to worst):
PS2: Oh my god, oh my god. If you know a zss picks ps2 ban that **** immediately. Yes we have that nice Ice gimmick but it is not enough. She will **** the **** out of you at the wind stage. I mean total, ****ing anal probing. ****’s nasty. She can Sideb through the hill and basically keep us out on that part. Small stage helps her more than us. We can’t fly under. The treadmills help her punish us on the ledge and make her dsmash even more safe on shield. She can do a sliding dsmash on the ice part. Shiet.
PS1: A less dramatic ps2.
Castle Siege: Helps her ability to stay on top of us.
Brinstar: See above posts about uair etc. etc.
Halberd: See above
YI: messes with our recovery doesn’t hurt her. Not too bad but if you really really despise it and know she won’t pick ps2? Ban YI.
Final Destination
Lylat Cruise
Smashville
Strike Yoshis Island and Battle field. The difference between BF and SV is player-based. Strike whichever one you like less for the mu.
CPs:
Frigate Orpheon
Rainbow Cruise
Final Destination
Brinstar
Halberd
Delphino
Bans(in order best choice to least effective): PS2, PS1, Castle Siege, Brinstar, Halberd, YI. Player knowledge will help in knowing what to ban.
Things to look out for: Dsmash chain DOES NOT WORK!!!!! On pit. To prevent getting 50+ dmg when dsmashed at 0 HOLD UP TO DI OUT SO YOU CAN JUMP AWAY B4 THE NEXT DSMASH. Pivot grab can be annoying. Don’t die to her down b…please. Side B offstage=early kill so pay attention to her zoning and be ready. Her Dsmash while planking. Don’t ever, ever, ever try to shield grab a dsmash. 99% of the time it won’t reach and you’ll get followed up by a dsmash to dsmash to uair etc. etc.
Summary: First off, two things to talk about. Good reaction time is a god send in this matchup. It makes stuff like dsmash on shield, uair baits, bair baits, power shielding side-b all much easier to punish and/or realize in time. Second, learn how to utilize the pieces. Pit ***** with them sooooo hard when done CORRECTLY. Once he gets a piece it “should” be a stock that’s how amazing he is with them. Stuff like downthrow piece WoI to stop her momentum to bair or footstool to fsmash. He can do hella combos with insta-throwing and his multiple jumps. He can create legitimate walls that she can’t get passed so it makes reads that much easier. Gives him a good OoS option for any situation. A quick approach in Glide Toss. Pit is gonna be using a bunch of arrows, nair, dair, and ftilt in this match. Recongnize how she telegraphs her side-b and dair when she is. Dair’s awkward arcing hitbox can hit her b4 the side b can hit you if done right. Nair allows for a good anti-appraoch move. Your arrowing she’s approaching through, nair(or fh retreating dair). Ftilt’s range(rivaling snakes ftilt if not longer) is aaaaaammmmmmmaaaaaazing in this matchup. She thinks she can zone in on you? Pft ftilt that hoe. When you get her in the air treat her like snake. Juggle her all day. Use arrows to trap her into a bair. Bair kills her super early. Watch out for her uair. That **** is scary and dangerous and a serious threat to pit. Always be ready to hold down so you can PS her jab. Cuz if you don’t it makes this matchup that much harder. If she downsmashes your shield, you have enough time to Nair OoS. That’s your best option cuz it gives you the most leeway. Edge guarding is a must. If she likes to down-b footstool trick onto the stage be ready to upsmash and juggle as she down-b. If she likes to grab the ledge with side b arrows stop that. If she has to use up-b do a quick FF bair towards the stage and your likely to Stage spike her. That being said you won't likely gimp zss on a neutral, but you can edge guard her pretty well. She excels at mid-range so you want to be either in long range, or short range. We have moves to get us out of Mid-range safely such as dair, running, ftilt, nair.
Counterpicks:
Frigate Orpheon: Oh how I love thee, frigate orpheon. This stage is beast mode in this matchup. The first transformation is BEGGING TO GIMP HER. It’s so easy to gimp her at this part. The stage flips can hurt her super bad. The second part, we can camp under the middle platform nicely. The downward slants also give our bair a super awesome hitbox that sweetspots down and out and up. It makes it much easier to land a bair. The BEST cp once you learn it.
Rainbow Cruise: Similar to frigate in that it helps gimps, but her uair potential here and possible early kills for her are what makes this only the second best choice.
Final destination: No platforms to support her juggling you, long flat stage to camp, we are heavier than her and “should” live longer.
Halberd: The low ceiling assits her uair too much. Planking is effective but still a large hassle and large risk vs reward. Do it at your own risk. The second part is no different than FD besides the platform and hazards and low celing. All of which can support her. Which is what gives FD the edge over halberd.
Brinstar: Extended hitboxes, low celings/walls, lava combos, uair deaths. Not the best CP for us. But definitely has perks like super early bair kill and lava+WoI combos.
Delphino: See above statements about planking. Realize that’s what delphino is for. Don’t choose it.
Bans(in order of best to worst):
PS2: Oh my god, oh my god. If you know a zss picks ps2 ban that **** immediately. Yes we have that nice Ice gimmick but it is not enough. She will **** the **** out of you at the wind stage. I mean total, ****ing anal probing. ****’s nasty. She can Sideb through the hill and basically keep us out on that part. Small stage helps her more than us. We can’t fly under. The treadmills help her punish us on the ledge and make her dsmash even more safe on shield. She can do a sliding dsmash on the ice part. Shiet.
PS1: A less dramatic ps2.
Castle Siege: Helps her ability to stay on top of us.
Brinstar: See above posts about uair etc. etc.
Halberd: See above
YI: messes with our recovery doesn’t hurt her. Not too bad but if you really really despise it and know she won’t pick ps2? Ban YI.
+0
Lucario mu summary
Stages to aim for:
Battlefield
Smashville
Lylat Cruise
Strike Final destination no matter what. Then eliminate Yoshi’s, pokemon stadium 1, and Castle siege in order of preference/player knowledge.
Counterpicks:
Smashville/Battlefield/Lylat Cruise*
Rainbow cruise
Brinstar
Halberd
*In case you want to play it safe pit does well vs lucy on these neutrals
Bans(in order of best choice to least effective): Final destination, Yoshi’s island, Pokemon stadium 1, Castle Siege, Frigate Orpheon.
Things to look out for: Mirror shield POCKETED aura sphere as they take a much longer time to release from input time, PS non pocketed, Recover smartly(aka don’t get hit by auraspheres and watch out for dair/bair), JCUS punish when dair’d on shield, Aura sphere b-reverse to mix up landings, space your upair so it beats dair, be ready to punish rolls, Don't attack with aggression unless your mixing up, you should never attack first. , abuse rolls more than usual, be smart if you plank, try your best to get the kill early with fsmash or bair, bair gimps, dash attack is good.
Summary: Ok so as stated above you aren’t gonna really wanna be the aggressor as opposed to certain mu that you need to be. Of course there are exceptions like juggling , pressing your advantage, edgeguarding, reads, or good mix-ups. Dtilt out ranges every ground option BUT fsmash. Jab is still really good as well but is outranged by his ftilt. Retreating dair, spaced fair, nair crossups, and GENERAL PIT ZONING make this mu. Arrows, arrows, arrows but be wary because his fair CAN simply stop arrows in their tracks in general. If you do get him offstage don’t expect a gimp. So use this opportunity to rack up some major damage with arrows, fair, and bair. Bair CAN gimp but isn’t reliable exactly… We can punish dair on shield with JCUS. Be very careful if he gets you in the air at both low % and high %. Low percent because the aerial strings will be sure to follow. High % because lucario can juggle pit really well tbqh. And it should be how he gets his kills if you’re playing right. Be very safe when recovering and pay attention to your opponents movements. Abuse your rolls smartly vs lucario and be ready to punish his. Uptilt in close quarter combat. It really is an amazing move in this mu. Abuse platforms to the fullest extent. Especially on smashville. It facilitates the whole STAY SAFE AND DON’T APPROACH stuff. Just be careful to not fall into a linear pattern with it and mix it up. Abuse stages where he can’t wall cling; this will help you gimp him.
Counterpicks:
Battlefield: This is probably my favorite stage for Pit vs Lucario. The stage is small, and the platforms benefit Pit alot more than Lucario. Lucario cannot wall cling on this stage or Smashville, so you don't have to worry about an additional recovery option. I would recommend staying under the two platforms on either side. Be weary of his obvious dairs, and make sure you get a hard punish everytime he gets on a platform. If Lucario is on the ledge, don't jump after him, there's no need to go for unnecessary gimps. There are two flashing circles on the left AND right side of
Battlefield, about two Bowser lengths away from the ledge. Stay there and you're in the safe zone. You won't get hit from him getting back on stage, however you're close enough to make a punish. The top platform is useful on this stage if you have a lead, because Lucario only has one move that can hit upward. Bait and dair him.
Smashville: The moving platform is a changing factor in this match. If you're going with the momentum of the platform, you can fthrow CG lucario to 36% then Fsmash him at the end. You can mix up with DA as well. I can't stress enough how good this platform is against Lucario. We have arrows and we really need to utilize our aerial mobility. The platform stays moving so it's constantly resetting the situation, which is excellent in Pit vs Lucario because Pit is good at poking and Lucario needs to string attacks. Arrows are really decent on this stage just because it's a decently sized straight stage. I don't think arrows are necessarily too effective against Lucario in the air, but on the ground definately. This stage is really basic, but I think it changes the ratio in Pit's favor.
Lylat Cruise: The slants help pits zoning and hurt lucarios strings, the slant CAN hurt his recovery( not necessarily facilitate gimps but punishes w/edgeguarding), the slants facilitate landing bairs, the platforms are positioned perfect to play it safe, and if you’ve mastered platform canceling they really help with mixing it up or getting out of tight situations. An overall good stage if you’re worried about various factors such as them changing or you not being exactly use to the better(which will be below this) counterpicks.
Rainbow Cruise: Lucario gains little while pit gains a bunch. Nuff said. If they don’t ban it, it’s a very wise choice. Play VERY safe shark with arrows, and just abuse the stage to the fullest by staying safe. Don’t fight on the boat that much.
Brinstar: Helps with sharking, helps with dair camping and stalling with glide and the like, helps land bairs( A BUNCH), helps us kill way earlier(AWESOME!:D). Another very wise choice.
Halberd: Halberd would be better for Pit, the excessive sharking during the travelling part + large horizontal sprawl (on the ship's deck part of the stage) yet small ceiling makes for good Pit camping and helps us kill earlier with Dash attack, fsmash, and dair. Sweet. Be wary of getting upaired here though…choose this if you don’t like brinstar/rc . Advice choosing this over others only if you know it well and are willing to risk stage gimmicks like claw, laser, and bomb becoming a factor.
Battlefield
Smashville
Lylat Cruise
Strike Final destination no matter what. Then eliminate Yoshi’s, pokemon stadium 1, and Castle siege in order of preference/player knowledge.
Counterpicks:
Smashville/Battlefield/Lylat Cruise*
Rainbow cruise
Brinstar
Halberd
*In case you want to play it safe pit does well vs lucy on these neutrals
Bans(in order of best choice to least effective): Final destination, Yoshi’s island, Pokemon stadium 1, Castle Siege, Frigate Orpheon.
Things to look out for: Mirror shield POCKETED aura sphere as they take a much longer time to release from input time, PS non pocketed, Recover smartly(aka don’t get hit by auraspheres and watch out for dair/bair), JCUS punish when dair’d on shield, Aura sphere b-reverse to mix up landings, space your upair so it beats dair, be ready to punish rolls, Don't attack with aggression unless your mixing up, you should never attack first. , abuse rolls more than usual, be smart if you plank, try your best to get the kill early with fsmash or bair, bair gimps, dash attack is good.
Summary: Ok so as stated above you aren’t gonna really wanna be the aggressor as opposed to certain mu that you need to be. Of course there are exceptions like juggling , pressing your advantage, edgeguarding, reads, or good mix-ups. Dtilt out ranges every ground option BUT fsmash. Jab is still really good as well but is outranged by his ftilt. Retreating dair, spaced fair, nair crossups, and GENERAL PIT ZONING make this mu. Arrows, arrows, arrows but be wary because his fair CAN simply stop arrows in their tracks in general. If you do get him offstage don’t expect a gimp. So use this opportunity to rack up some major damage with arrows, fair, and bair. Bair CAN gimp but isn’t reliable exactly… We can punish dair on shield with JCUS. Be very careful if he gets you in the air at both low % and high %. Low percent because the aerial strings will be sure to follow. High % because lucario can juggle pit really well tbqh. And it should be how he gets his kills if you’re playing right. Be very safe when recovering and pay attention to your opponents movements. Abuse your rolls smartly vs lucario and be ready to punish his. Uptilt in close quarter combat. It really is an amazing move in this mu. Abuse platforms to the fullest extent. Especially on smashville. It facilitates the whole STAY SAFE AND DON’T APPROACH stuff. Just be careful to not fall into a linear pattern with it and mix it up. Abuse stages where he can’t wall cling; this will help you gimp him.
Counterpicks:
Battlefield: This is probably my favorite stage for Pit vs Lucario. The stage is small, and the platforms benefit Pit alot more than Lucario. Lucario cannot wall cling on this stage or Smashville, so you don't have to worry about an additional recovery option. I would recommend staying under the two platforms on either side. Be weary of his obvious dairs, and make sure you get a hard punish everytime he gets on a platform. If Lucario is on the ledge, don't jump after him, there's no need to go for unnecessary gimps. There are two flashing circles on the left AND right side of
Battlefield, about two Bowser lengths away from the ledge. Stay there and you're in the safe zone. You won't get hit from him getting back on stage, however you're close enough to make a punish. The top platform is useful on this stage if you have a lead, because Lucario only has one move that can hit upward. Bait and dair him.
Smashville: The moving platform is a changing factor in this match. If you're going with the momentum of the platform, you can fthrow CG lucario to 36% then Fsmash him at the end. You can mix up with DA as well. I can't stress enough how good this platform is against Lucario. We have arrows and we really need to utilize our aerial mobility. The platform stays moving so it's constantly resetting the situation, which is excellent in Pit vs Lucario because Pit is good at poking and Lucario needs to string attacks. Arrows are really decent on this stage just because it's a decently sized straight stage. I don't think arrows are necessarily too effective against Lucario in the air, but on the ground definately. This stage is really basic, but I think it changes the ratio in Pit's favor.
Lylat Cruise: The slants help pits zoning and hurt lucarios strings, the slant CAN hurt his recovery( not necessarily facilitate gimps but punishes w/edgeguarding), the slants facilitate landing bairs, the platforms are positioned perfect to play it safe, and if you’ve mastered platform canceling they really help with mixing it up or getting out of tight situations. An overall good stage if you’re worried about various factors such as them changing or you not being exactly use to the better(which will be below this) counterpicks.
Rainbow Cruise: Lucario gains little while pit gains a bunch. Nuff said. If they don’t ban it, it’s a very wise choice. Play VERY safe shark with arrows, and just abuse the stage to the fullest by staying safe. Don’t fight on the boat that much.
Brinstar: Helps with sharking, helps with dair camping and stalling with glide and the like, helps land bairs( A BUNCH), helps us kill way earlier(AWESOME!:D). Another very wise choice.
Halberd: Halberd would be better for Pit, the excessive sharking during the travelling part + large horizontal sprawl (on the ship's deck part of the stage) yet small ceiling makes for good Pit camping and helps us kill earlier with Dash attack, fsmash, and dair. Sweet. Be wary of getting upaired here though…choose this if you don’t like brinstar/rc . Advice choosing this over others only if you know it well and are willing to risk stage gimmicks like claw, laser, and bomb becoming a factor.
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Pikachu Discussion
Bowser Discussion
) so you should use that to your advantage, however don't think you are a Marth or ZSS and get complacent. Sonic has average range and will outrange you in some situations, so be on the lookout for that. Offstage can go either way, but in this matchup it isn't recommended that you aim to strike down Sonic with arrows as Sonic can afford to airdodge them due to his ability to recover from just about any place off the screen, you'd be better off just getting out off the stage after him with your Fair, Bairs and Nairs to hit Sonic WOP him out. When it comes to you recovering, it's not unbelievable to see Sonic gimping you, especially if you're forced to use your WOI, but it shouldn't really come down to this with your multiple jumps, glide and airdodges. You also have the option of harassing Sonic with arrows while you're recovering to deter him from chasing you offstage. Take care to avoid being gimped from the spring from Sonic' s Up B especially if you're recovering from below with WOI.
