The Captain Falcon Match-Up General Discussion ~ Week 21 (?)

[lordhelmet]

I think that was the point of the post...

I may be biased toward Falcon and his potential but I'm not biased when deciding ratios

Anyways I'll wait a bit to see if any good posts pop up and if not we can vote for a ratio since we're pretty split on it. Besides I'd rather go with 40-60 before I go with 30-70.

 

[Darky-Sama]

Nah, I've done a fair share of degrading a lot of the things that the Falcons have stated too. Much like you, 2Knee, I think it seems smarter if we keep our opinions on the match-ups to ourselves and just tell them what works and what doesn't.

Rather we overrate or underrate Falcon really doesn't make a big difference if they know what they should and shouldn't be doing. ...and that's the only reason I post around here, to be honest.

 

[Zeallyx]

I think that was the point of the post...

I may be biased toward Falcon and his potential but I'm not biased when deciding ratios

Anyways I'll wait a bit to see if any good posts pop up and if not we can vote for a ratio since we're pretty split on it. Besides I'd rather go with 40-60 before I go with 30-70.

luckily its not entirely up to you.

Nah, I've done a fair share of degrading a lot of the things that the Falcons have stated too. Much like you, 2Knee, I think it seems smarter if we keep our opinions on the match-ups to ourselves and just tell them what works and what doesn't.

Rather we overrate or underrate Falcon really doesn't make a big difference if they know what they should and shouldn't be doing. ...and that's the only reason I post around here, to be honest.

True.
Though I dont even bother with the latter anymore.

 

[Player-3]

nobody plays gnw anyways and if they do just do diddy kong and shield everything he does and throw bananas out of it lol

 

[Zatchiel]

G&W is really light, and i like to abuse Dthrow > Uair in MU's vs light chars.
I also thing his Up and B is a bit sluggish, and it's a tad predictable. If you SDI his Bair, you can land a Knee for KO, or a Bair.
I don't know about Nair, but on lucky occasions, you can get in a Dair. Not recommended for low%'s, though.
Funny how some of his best moves can be SDI'd.

 

[Player-3]

you think gnws up b is slow?









waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?

 

[lordhelmet]

G&W is really light, and i like to abuse Dthrow > Uair in MU's against GnW because his dair is slow.
I also thing his Up and B is a bit broken, and it's ungimpable. If you SDI his Bair, you can land a Knee for KO, or a Bair.
I don't know about Nair, but on lucky occasions, you can get in a Dair. Not recommended for low %'s, though.
Funny how his best moves suck.

Fixed .

 

[Zatchiel]

you think gnws up b is slow?









waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?

Just bait it out and Utilt, if you can

Fixed .

Dammit Lordy. You just went up in rep, bigtime.

 

[Player-3]

bnws up b wtf you can't utilt that **** LOL

 

[lordhelmet]

I think he means if he goes passed the ledge, which you should be able to.

 

[Zatchiel]

I think he means if he goes passed the ledge, which you should be able to.

That's what i meant...

If he goes higher than the point of Utilt, or you know the hitbox is going to hit, OoS Uair is always another **** option.
​

 

[Player-3]

why would a gnw not sweetspot the ledge lol

 

[Zatchiel]

why would a gnw not sweetspot the ledge lol

They do like to do damage sometimes, loool

 

[Player-3]

if they were smart they could get to the ledge then up b again after a ledge drop or w/e

 

[Zatchiel]

if they were smart they could get to the ledge then up b again after a ledge drop or w/e

Still gives you the option the OoS Uair, so what's the difference in him getting punished?
Unless he goes Dair, then you're screwed.

 

[Zeallyx]

Still gives you the option the OoS Uair, so what's the difference in him getting punished?
Unless he goes Dair, then you're screwed.

So you're screwed.

 

[Zatchiel]

So you're screwed.

Oh, sorry, i didn't finish: You're screwed, unless you have a shield and use it to get out of there.
Or you could Shield-Grab <--- lol

 

[Zeallyx]

Oh, sorry, i didn't finish: You're screwed, unless you have a shield and use it to get out of there.
Or you could Shield-Grab <--- lol

This 'opponent attack->react' talk is very silly.

 

[lordhelmet]

Please cut the theory-craft nonsense

 

[teluoborg]

LP stop, please.
This is matchup discussion, not "if the opponent is ******** we can do that" discussion.
:/


Now someone post some "do and don't" plz.

 

[lordhelmet]

We can include that in the summary lol, due to the lack of new input I'm just gonna throw out a poll for the ratio. Since we're split between 35-65 and 30-70 that's what we're voting between.

So far we have:

30-70: A2Z/2Knee/Ramz
35-65: Me/Chirp/Darky/Lorenzo/Willz (says 40-60 talking to him on AIM not pulling it out of my ***)

Please vote if you haven't already... 2Knee you're two votes behind, better get to making some alts.

EDIT:

Closing the poll at 12 AM tomorrow MY TIME so there's no room for bias.

 

[Ramzeh]

Like I said, 100:0 gnw favor

and lordy u juss mad cuz i have ******** opinions on MU ratios

chirp doesnt count becuz hes not homo and doesnt like penus like me

 

[Zeallyx]

2Knee you're two votes behind, better get to making some alts.

Where does that come from?

Like I care what you eventually edit into the first post.

Also, lordeh, I'd PM AA asking what his ratio is, if I were thou.

 

[Darky-Sama]

lol typical ratio war.

Seriously though, if it makes people feel any better, put the ratio as 30:70. It takes the glory out of winning against G&W if the match-up is suppose to be winnable for us.

Falcon does have options in this match-up though. As long as that's made clear, I could give a **** less about the ratio.

 

[lordhelmet]

lol typical ratio war.

Seriously though, if it makes people feel any better, put the ratio as 30:70. It takes the glory out of winning against G&W if the match-up is suppose to be winnable for us.

Falcon does have options in this match-up though. As long as that's made clear, I could give a **** less about the ratio.

I'd ban 2Knee and Ramz from the discussion before I did that. GnW an impossible MU? Please.

Neither of them play the game anymore anyway. And Knee I'll PM AA just to make yourself feel a little better.

 

[lordhelmet]

Double post it's 12.

AA said 25-75 fyi but it doesn't matter :S

Next character...Tink is next via tier list order any objections?

 

[Darky-Sama]

Toon Link is good. I know a lot of the top TL mains that I talk to on AIM on the regular. I can invite them here.

 

[lordhelmet]

Toon Link is good. I know a lot of the top TL mains that I talk to on AIM on the regular. I can invite them here.

Do that plz.

Tink is a pretty easy match-up. I'm gonna go ahead and say 40-60 Tink, it could even be 45-55 but that's too far of a stretch.

Jab, uair, utilt = GG. Tink's projectiles are pretty annoying due to our height but our air speed and dash/run speed make it easy to get into his bubble.

inb4 2Knee mistakes us for Ganon and says 30-70

 

[Darky-Sama]

As bad as it sounds, I actually prefer to use Falcon in this match-up over ZSS; in a competitive sense. I'm leaning toward 40:60, I'll give my reasons later.

 

[Ramzeh]

I'd ban 2Knee and Ramz from the discussion before I did that. GnW an impossible MU? Please.

Neither of them play the game anymore anyway. And Knee I'll PM AA just to make yourself feel a little better.

Did you decide that all on your own? Good booooooy.

You are so much smarter than me at knowing all this MU stuff.

i really want to *** a dirty gypsie lad now those people turn me on so much

shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit i can censor dodge LOL hope i dont get banned

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Don't forget, we have an amazing air game. Taking it to the skies is a very bad option.

 

[lordhelmet]

Don't forget, we have an amazing air game. Taking it to the skies is a very bad option.

Unless we're under you

Bair ***** us pretty hard, our bair does pretty well against Tink...

 

[†Slader7†]

In the air:

If we're in front of Tlink, then yeah we're screwed
If we're under, expect to be Falcon Uair *****
If we're above, i don't know Falcon's Dair vs Tlink's uair would be ridiculous
I guess a FF Bair will be better

 

[lordhelmet]

We get juggled pretty hard, our **** airdodge doesn't help much.

Bair is faster than Tink's fair though :O not sure which outspaces the other

 

[Chsal]

Tink's Fair isn't that great. Tink uses Nair and Zair more. Both beat CF Bair. Usually the only time Tink uses a Fair is after a projectile lands, or when it is otherwise reliable to hit.

CF Bair hits on 10
Tink Nair hits on 6
Tink Zair outspaces CF Bair.

Tink's Uair outprioritises Falcon's Dair. Tink only needs to hit your foot, you need to hit his head.

Falcon's jab ***** TL hard. You just need to get close.

Learn to catch bombs. And powershield projectiles.

 

[lordhelmet]

Tink's Fair isn't that great. Tink uses Nair and Zair more. Both beat CF Bair. Usually the only time Tink uses a Fair is after a projectile lands, or when it is otherwise reliable to hit.

CF Bair hits on 10
Tink Nair hits on 6
Tink Zair outspaces CF Bair.

Tink's Uair outprioritises Falcon's Dair. Tink only needs to hit your foot, you need to hit his head.

Falcon's jab ***** TL hard. You just need to get close.

Learn to catch bombs. And powershield projectiles.

This is all true. My mind skipped passed zair.

If Falcon didn't have the mobility he does then this would be a really hard match-up, but like I said it's actually pretty easy (yes 40-60 Tink's favor is easy).

 

[Darky-Sama]

I've decided to change my ratio to 35:65.

Me and Near played a few more serious matches just so I could see what Falcon could and couldn't do - and I realized that Zair shuts Falcon down almost completely. It's pretty obvious that Tink has mobility, but his ability to outspace us in an aerial sense can make even Wario's abilities look inadequate. When Falcon is at lower percents, TL can do things such as SH Zair pressure -> grab, camp with boomerang, bombs and quick draw arrows; while Falcon has only the ability to keep within his comfort zone.

Unfortunately, even staying close to TL is difficult. His aerial game is better than ours by far, his mobility and aerial control + projectiles limit Falcon's ability to even keep within close range of him. Even if Falcon can get a hit or two on him, it's nearly impossible to follow-up. It's basically a hit and run process and TL makes that dreadfully difficult. Approaching defensively and being shield campy isn't useful either because TL doesn't need to keep within Falcon's range. Falcon doesn't have difficulty getting around the projectiles, but TL's ability to punish and read what you're going to avoid makes it almost impossible to get a decent hit in on him.

Basically, your best option here is to try and keep TL pressured. Difficult as that is, Falcon doesn't have any other options and TL will just camp and **** the living **** out of him with projectiles and aerials. lmfao.

35:65 seems accurate to me. Falcon has difficulty approaching, he's limited on options and he can't follow-up worth **** in this match-up.

 

[Chsal]

Zair doesn't shut down Falcon at all. In fact, it doesn't shut down ANYONE at all. It used to, and then people found out how to get around it D=.

Anyway what you do is you run up, powershield the Zair and then grab, dash attack, etc on him. Unless he spaces it perfectly you should be able to get him.

Heres how it works.
-You are running towards him, he does a SH.
-At this point you should expect him to either Zair, Arrow, Nair, Or whatever. Shield beats everything.
-But assume he Zairs for the sake of the situation.
-Powershield it, Or you don't have to, really, you should still have an advantage.
-At this point you are in your shield, and hes in the air.
-You simply need to shield drop, buffer dash + grab.
-He needs to land, then do something to stop you.

His jab comes out on frame 6, more than enough time for you to grab him.
His spot dodge comes out on 2, but it lasts till 20 or so. Even if you miss your grab, just hold down A and your jabs should hit him.

 

[Ramzeh]

wow this MU is at least 100:0 tlink.

falcon has no chance

 

[Teran]

Look Ramz, even though being a pederast is quite hilarious, it's not really necessary to post about it all up on the Falcon boards.

There are sites where you can post about children to your heart's content, but this isn't one.