I see. Alright. =)
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The Captain Falcon Match-Up General Discussion ~ Week 21 (?)
- Thread starter lordhelmet
- Start date
. .
Darky-Sama
Smash Lord
Actually, a few of the things mlorenzo said is accurate.
G&W's bair shouldn't be knee'd though, Falcon should wait for the chance to grab / buffered dash attack / tilt / jab when the turtle's head draws back. If you're not certain on how to time this properly, refer to Praxis's video on it and learn. [Link]
G&W's dtilt is used the most after a dthrow, so that's pretty annoying. Just roll out of the way and hope that they buffer incorrectly or you'll probably get hit.
The utilt is pretty annoying too, but G&W has more combo potential than just using the utilt, he'll probably mix it up after the first or second one and follow up with an aerial like nair.
Overpowered smashes with extended hitboxes, they're pretty predictable but you've just got to be careful not to get hit. He's like the Luigi match-up, aerials and quick kills are the main things you have to avoid. Falcon shouldn't die nearly as quick as most characters though, so you shouldn't be having too much difficulty racking up damage over a period of time if you're smart.
Silly as it sounds, dash attack against G&W a lot. The slight momentum boost Falcon gets while using it often allows it to hit before G&W does - and the fact that he's usually in the air would allow you to keep him limited on his options and force him to space more.
G&W's bair shouldn't be knee'd though, Falcon should wait for the chance to grab / buffered dash attack / tilt / jab when the turtle's head draws back. If you're not certain on how to time this properly, refer to Praxis's video on it and learn. [Link]
G&W's dtilt is used the most after a dthrow, so that's pretty annoying. Just roll out of the way and hope that they buffer incorrectly or you'll probably get hit.
The utilt is pretty annoying too, but G&W has more combo potential than just using the utilt, he'll probably mix it up after the first or second one and follow up with an aerial like nair.
Overpowered smashes with extended hitboxes, they're pretty predictable but you've just got to be careful not to get hit. He's like the Luigi match-up, aerials and quick kills are the main things you have to avoid. Falcon shouldn't die nearly as quick as most characters though, so you shouldn't be having too much difficulty racking up damage over a period of time if you're smart.
Silly as it sounds, dash attack against G&W a lot. The slight momentum boost Falcon gets while using it often allows it to hit before G&W does - and the fact that he's usually in the air would allow you to keep him limited on his options and force him to space more.
lordhelmet
Smash Master
What Darky said is all true. Mlorenzo is right for the most part but if you get turtled in the air, (S)DI up and towards him and punish with a bair. And I spam dash attack anyway ;P
No worse than 35-65.
No worse than 35-65.
This isn't a discussion. This is like:
"i think this"
"i unno man, it's actually more this"
"Well, my good sir. Actually, a few of the things mlorenzo said is accurate.
G&W's bair shouldn't be knee'd though, Falcon should wait for the chance to grab / buffered dash attack / tilt / jab when the turtle's head draws back. If you're not certain on how to time this properly, refer to Praxis's video on it and learn. [Link]
G&W's dtilt is used the most after a dthrow, so that's pretty annoying. Just roll out of the way and hope that they buffer incorrectly or you'll probably get hit.
The utilt is pretty annoying too, but G&W has more combo potential than just using the utilt, he'll probably mix it up after the first or second one and follow up with an aerial like nair.
Overpowered smashes with extended hitboxes, they're pretty predictable but you've just got to be careful not to get hit. He's like the Luigi match-up, aerials and quick kills are the main things you have to avoid. Falcon shouldn't die nearly as quick as most characters though, so you shouldn't be having too much difficulty racking up damage over a period of time if you're smart.
Silly as it sounds, dash attack against G&W a lot. The slightly momentum boost Falcon gets while using it often allows it to hit before G&W does - and the fact that he's usually in the air would allow you to keep him limited on his options and force him to space more."
"WHOA HE'S SMART I AGREE."
Kinda like the Backrooms.
<3darky
"i think this"
"i unno man, it's actually more this"
"Well, my good sir. Actually, a few of the things mlorenzo said is accurate.
G&W's bair shouldn't be knee'd though, Falcon should wait for the chance to grab / buffered dash attack / tilt / jab when the turtle's head draws back. If you're not certain on how to time this properly, refer to Praxis's video on it and learn. [Link]
G&W's dtilt is used the most after a dthrow, so that's pretty annoying. Just roll out of the way and hope that they buffer incorrectly or you'll probably get hit.
The utilt is pretty annoying too, but G&W has more combo potential than just using the utilt, he'll probably mix it up after the first or second one and follow up with an aerial like nair.
Overpowered smashes with extended hitboxes, they're pretty predictable but you've just got to be careful not to get hit. He's like the Luigi match-up, aerials and quick kills are the main things you have to avoid. Falcon shouldn't die nearly as quick as most characters though, so you shouldn't be having too much difficulty racking up damage over a period of time if you're smart.
Silly as it sounds, dash attack against G&W a lot. The slightly momentum boost Falcon gets while using it often allows it to hit before G&W does - and the fact that he's usually in the air would allow you to keep him limited on his options and force him to space more."
"WHOA HE'S SMART I AGREE."
Kinda like the Backrooms.
<3darky
Darky-Sama
Smash Lord
It's still a discussion though, I posted my thoughts and gave my input, just as you did.
<3 Ramzeh. :>
<3 Ramzeh. :>
Willz
Smash Master
You're all ****ing idiots. Chirst.
Yes Darky dash attack is an awesome punisher.
Also do's and don'ts :
DO :
-approach GW in the air by his lower diagonals,
-edgehog his recovery then Uair
-techroll his Dthrow (dunno the timing though),
DON'T :
-approach GW when he's on the ground,
-underestimate his Fair, it WILL gimp you,
-stay on a platform above him (Nairs too good),
-try to punish Dtilt because it has 0 ****ing ending lag srsly Sakurai why would you do that.
If someone wants to complete/correct then feel free.
Also do's and don'ts :
DO :
-approach GW in the air by his lower diagonals,
-edgehog his recovery then Uair
-techroll his Dthrow (dunno the timing though),
DON'T :
-approach GW when he's on the ground,
-underestimate his Fair, it WILL gimp you,
-stay on a platform above him (Nairs too good),
-try to punish Dtilt because it has 0 ****ing ending lag srsly Sakurai why would you do that.
If someone wants to complete/correct then feel free.
A2ZOMG
Smash Legend
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LOL if G&W is B-airing you on stage he's doing the matchup wrong.
He ***** you with F-airs and D-tilts. Plain and simple. Falcon really doesn't have the tools to reliably stop G&W from outpoking him with those moves. And it's really just a matter of G&W having enough intelligence to know how to gimp. He doesn't need to worry about outright KOing Falcon when Falcon's recovery is just easily autogimped by G&W's tools.
I'm just saying, you all complain about his B-air, but that move isn't really the one that is gonna give you problems. It's if he knows how to space F-air when the matchup becomes unbearable.
He ***** you with F-airs and D-tilts. Plain and simple. Falcon really doesn't have the tools to reliably stop G&W from outpoking him with those moves. And it's really just a matter of G&W having enough intelligence to know how to gimp. He doesn't need to worry about outright KOing Falcon when Falcon's recovery is just easily autogimped by G&W's tools.
I'm just saying, you all complain about his B-air, but that move isn't really the one that is gonna give you problems. It's if he knows how to space F-air when the matchup becomes unbearable.
lordhelmet
Smash Master
Fair is pretty gay but it doesn't shut us down, same with dtilt.
Falcon's uair > G&W's fair in terms of speed anyway. Dtilt is beatable if you space utilt properly or keep jab pressure on him. SDI Watch's nair up and bair him or something.
Yes G&W is a pain with tech chases and pretty good gimp ability, but no worse than 35-65 as I said before.
Falcon's uair > G&W's fair in terms of speed anyway. Dtilt is beatable if you space utilt properly or keep jab pressure on him. SDI Watch's nair up and bair him or something.
Yes G&W is a pain with tech chases and pretty good gimp ability, but no worse than 35-65 as I said before.
lordhelmet
Smash Master
Expected from an '09 player ;D
Not flaming you, just saying G&W is not near as good as he used to be.
lordhelmet
Smash Master
Yeah his fair got slower and his dsmash isn't as disjointed anymore.
But no, his metagame hasn't developed much, everyone knows how to get around him and fight his moveset. It's like Kirby, he used to be really good because no one knew how to fight him and I thought it was an impossible match-up. But now it's pretty easy and I'd call it 4-6. *shrug*
Can't really explain it well, I'll try to type more later.
But no, his metagame hasn't developed much, everyone knows how to get around him and fight his moveset. It's like Kirby, he used to be really good because no one knew how to fight him and I thought it was an impossible match-up. But now it's pretty easy and I'd call it 4-6. *shrug*
Can't really explain it well, I'll try to type more later.
A2ZOMG
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G&W's F-air is the same speed in this game and Melee and the same speed as his B-air. You can't punish it with SDI the same way you can punish his B-air, and furthermore Falcon is tall enough for G&W to easily hit him with a buffered fullhop F-air, which ends in the air soon enough for G&W to do more actions afterwards. SHFF F-air isn't exactly that unsafe on block either keep in mind, and if you try jumping into his F-air in general, the lingering hitbox more often than not will stop whatever you were trying to do. That is if he doesn't D-tilt you instead either.
With F-air and D-tilt alone, G&W already has a MASSIVE offensive advantage over Falcon, and those two moves both happen to be very good at getting Falcon offstage, where he is at his weakest. G&W doesn't have to play defensive to win this matchup, which is definitely a good option for him as well when his B-air at the very least can stop you from recklessly using a sliding shield approach and other stuff he has makes him hard to juggle and punish on the edge.
I do believe this is at least a 70/30 matchup in G&W's favor. The added problem of Falcon being unable to stop G&W from juggling him as well justifies this, not to mention G&W's impressive ability to edgetrap.
With F-air and D-tilt alone, G&W already has a MASSIVE offensive advantage over Falcon, and those two moves both happen to be very good at getting Falcon offstage, where he is at his weakest. G&W doesn't have to play defensive to win this matchup, which is definitely a good option for him as well when his B-air at the very least can stop you from recklessly using a sliding shield approach and other stuff he has makes him hard to juggle and punish on the edge.
I do believe this is at least a 70/30 matchup in G&W's favor. The added problem of Falcon being unable to stop G&W from juggling him as well justifies this, not to mention G&W's impressive ability to edgetrap.
lordhelmet
Smash Master
Oh my god it was a joke *facepalm*
*continues reading*
Wait so G&W has a 7-3 advantage over Falcon but only 6-4 over Ganon? That makes perfect sense.
*continues reading*
Wait so G&W has a 7-3 advantage over Falcon but only 6-4 over Ganon? That makes perfect sense.
Darky-Sama
Smash Lord
Ganon is actually a terrorist in that match-up thanks to murderchoke -> dtilt and quick kills, since G&W is one of the lightest characters in the game. I don't think we're as low as 30:70 though. 35:65 seems to be the worst, imo.
lordhelmet
Smash Master
Point taken. Those are the only two things Ganon has over us anyway.
And agreed again, 35-65 at worst.
A2ZOMG
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G&W beats Ganon 80/20. Who said that G&W only beats him 6/4? That's garbage. Ganon has the same weaknesses against G&W that Falcon does and suffers even more on CP stages and other stuff.
lordhelmet
Smash Master
Your match-up thread says that LOL.
A2ZOMG
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Things get outdated. Opinions change. Either way I can guarantee you G&W/Ganon is 80/20 G&W's favor.
lordhelmet
Smash Master
Maybe you should get that thread fixed if you don't want people getting outdated info :S
I see.
Well.. sorry, sheeshz
But are you sure it's 35-65? It just.. doesnt look right.
Neither does 80-20, though.
we da bess
all we do is win win win no matter what
lordhelmet
Smash Master
I got money on my mind I can neva get enough.
No but srsly I'll try posting a bit more in-depth later I'm just a lazy **** atm.
No but srsly I'll try posting a bit more in-depth later I'm just a lazy **** atm.
Threadworthy advice. Hahaha.
lordhelmet
Smash Master
So uh
G&W is one of those characters with "G&W Syndrome". Characters that were good when people didn't know how to get around their moves. Kirby with his throw combos for example. G&W just isn't as good as he was and doesn't have any results to prove otherwise.
That being said, G&W gets ***** by uair pretty hard. His dair takes twice as long as our uair to come out and is a stall-and-fall move so it's risky. His ground game is pretty quick, but has nothing as fast as Falcon's jab so he does get jab groped a bit. Either stay right in his face with jabs or just out of dtilt range and get him with an uptilt/Falcon Kick/spaced bair OR Raptor Boost, now with Raptor Boost you will either clash or hit through it.
If you don't know the match-up, yes you will get ***** by any decent G&W. Learn to DI and punish his bair, SDI nair up and stay in your good zones. Watch out for his fair, while it's not as good as Marth's, it's lingering hitbox is a pain. But it has punishable cooldown.
Also, don't try to gimp him. Go for ledge-hugs if anything. And one last thing, don't forget grab release > uair.
35-65 G&W
G&W is one of those characters with "G&W Syndrome". Characters that were good when people didn't know how to get around their moves. Kirby with his throw combos for example. G&W just isn't as good as he was and doesn't have any results to prove otherwise.
That being said, G&W gets ***** by uair pretty hard. His dair takes twice as long as our uair to come out and is a stall-and-fall move so it's risky. His ground game is pretty quick, but has nothing as fast as Falcon's jab so he does get jab groped a bit. Either stay right in his face with jabs or just out of dtilt range and get him with an uptilt/Falcon Kick/spaced bair OR Raptor Boost, now with Raptor Boost you will either clash or hit through it.
If you don't know the match-up, yes you will get ***** by any decent G&W. Learn to DI and punish his bair, SDI nair up and stay in your good zones. Watch out for his fair, while it's not as good as Marth's, it's lingering hitbox is a pain. But it has punishable cooldown.
Also, don't try to gimp him. Go for ledge-hugs if anything. And one last thing, don't forget grab release > uair.
35-65 G&W
lordhelmet
Smash Master
brb reporting post
Seriously people need to know where it's appropriate to post stupid things. =/
Not talking about you guys btw.
Not talking about you guys btw.