RPGsFTW
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2007
- Messages
- 754
I've never used it before. Is it really that simple, or will I need basic BrawlBox knowledge to be able to figure it out?
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The Competitive Brawl Stage Hacking Hub: Dat Valentine's Day Status
- Thread starter MK26
- Start date
MK26
Smash Master
stuff2o: thanks for notifying me about the mansion link...fixd in the op
FroHo: [insert_gif]*Whos awesome? Ur awesome*[/insert_gif]
Neko: i suppose i can think up a more elaborate fix than what i had originally planned for skyworld...your idea sounds good
RPGs: find the texture file in the texture-hacked stage, right-click --> export; find the original texture in mansion+, right-click --> replace
i like progress.
FroHo: [insert_gif]*Whos awesome? Ur awesome*[/insert_gif]
Neko: i suppose i can think up a more elaborate fix than what i had originally planned for skyworld...your idea sounds good
RPGs: find the texture file in the texture-hacked stage, right-click --> export; find the original texture in mansion+, right-click --> replace
i like progress.
Budget Player Cadet_
Smash Hero
I see... Is it possible to just get rid of the lava wall? As far as the pirate ship hazards... Do they really need weakening?
I know what you mean; it kills a lot more often with higher hitstun...
ValTroX
Smash Ace
Comments on Skyworld+:
I really have to go with Shadic on this one. I HATE auto-sweetspot and the hitlag just bothers me. The stage has unique platform layout and a platform passes below the stage from time to time, so it still will be a unique stage if you remove the stones. The best setup for this stage, in my opinion, is a main cloud like the main platform in delfino/halbert(the one you can't pass from above but you can from below) with edges that you can grab, and if you can make the platform like i said before, you can use the little platform that spaws as an attacking, defensive technique.
I really have to go with Shadic on this one. I HATE auto-sweetspot and the hitlag just bothers me. The stage has unique platform layout and a platform passes below the stage from time to time, so it still will be a unique stage if you remove the stones. The best setup for this stage, in my opinion, is a main cloud like the main platform in delfino/halbert(the one you can't pass from above but you can from below) with edges that you can grab, and if you can make the platform like i said before, you can use the little platform that spaws as an attacking, defensive technique.
ThatGuyYouMightKnow
Smash Champion
The hitlag is just plain annoying, plain and simple.
Which makes it a counterpick.
Triangle.
Which makes it a counterpick.
Triangle.
ValTroX
Smash Ace
Just came back from testing PTAD+ and I gotta say: GOOD JOB guys! Can't wait for PSI
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
i replaced the link. try it now.
well, keep in mind, i can move the top pieces anywhere. i can have them be lying on the bottom, floating off the side, anywhere. i'm not going to be happy with just another flat stage.
ValTroX
Smash Ace
I've been testing PTAD+ a lot, and I found that you could fix the road on the start of the stage(The start line of the track). I found that tall characters get hit by the road if the are hanging on the edge. This also happens at the steps following the start line, though I think it should remain this way on this part of the stage.
EDIT: What I meant to say is that you guys should lower the road hitbox a little at the start line so that the tall characters don't get hit by hanging.
EDIT: What I meant to say is that you guys should lower the road hitbox a little at the start line so that the tall characters don't get hit by hanging.
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
i'll take a look at it
ValTroX
Smash Ace
Alright happened to me on Ganondorf 
check it out
check it out
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
ok, well, i don't see where i can edit it, but even if i could i don't think i would. it works as a way to deter staying on the ledge. its annoying, but since we don't have cars as a threat, it may work fine as is.
ValTroX
Smash Ace
Alright, it's no biggie really, also, it helps smaller characters, so it's cp properties increase
Revven
FrankerZ
Technically, you could say that PTAD+ is an anti-planking CP. 
Slashy
Smash Lord
I posted that earlier in a thread.
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
you won't take bubble damage if the camera is extended like that.
Omegapaste
Smash Cadet
For big blue+ we can center the falcon flyer the entire time, remove cars and position the boundaries more up so the ceilling will be higher. the road will have the same use as the river in jungle japes
D
Deleted member
Guest
Its still almost another final destination.
With circle camping, walk offs, and a road to kill people who tumble on it.
For Onett and Mario Circuit, the stages, along with Big Blue may be unsalvagable just because they hae permanent walk offs.
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
have you ever actually looked at the falcon flyer? its definitely not another flat stage. watch my second vid to see just how the tilting can be abused.
and lol at "walk off" the reason walk offs are looked down on is boundary camping. that doesn't work on BB+. you die if you try that. walk off isn't a legitimate complaint.
if i can fix the random position changes then it will be a fine CP. all of these other complaints are unfounded or based purely on ignorance.
edit:
in related news, i think i got it to work right (turns out some of the random jumping was due to the actual stage layout which now just seems silly. i managed to make going over the gaps much smoother now. the unfortunate side effect is that the stage now requires 2 codes and a pac to function, but the result is a good cp stage (also made the flyer longer
). vids will be up asap.
MK26
Smash Master
FroHo, think of it like this:
you die when you hit the road
you would have died off the bottom blastzone had you not hit the road
so...why do we have a road?
you die when you hit the road
you would have died off the bottom blastzone had you not hit the road
so...why do we have a road?
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
because removing it ****s up everything else. ok?
MK26
Smash Master
ah...forgot that part
Eldiran
Smash Lord
Big Blue sounds like it's turning out great! I do have a question though. Do you have a download of PTAD with removed cars and added ledges, but with the wall hitbox still there? I actually really enjoy that wall...
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
for PS1, i have rock and fire graphically correct, however, they are still retaining the collision from their un-edited forms. can hexing fix this problem? if so, maestro, you can take a look at it. just pm me.
edit: also, you can put PTAD+ in the OP since it was a collaboration and not just my work. i'll remove it from my post when you do.
edit: also, you can put PTAD+ in the OP since it was a collaboration and not just my work. i'll remove it from my post when you do.
MK26
Smash Master
Eldiran
Smash Lord
Thanks! I just can't think of anything more satisfying than shoving a guy into a wall as we travel at high speeds along it
1. The Bulborb doesn't need to be removed from DP as its a hazard completely seperate from the stage itself. The only way you can interact with it is to be sent towards/onto it, which is preventable when fighting your opponent.
2. The insides of MK1-2 don't need ledges because you have the platforms to aid your recovery. Dieing via bottom blast zone would be neigh possible if there were ledges AND platforms.
3. Norfair...idk. I think the stage layout is stupid enough as it is, and is more of a problem to the game than the hazards are, and the hazards help prevent abuse of the stage's layout to rise to an extreme.
2. The insides of MK1-2 don't need ledges because you have the platforms to aid your recovery. Dieing via bottom blast zone would be neigh possible if there were ledges AND platforms.
3. Norfair...idk. I think the stage layout is stupid enough as it is, and is more of a problem to the game than the hazards are, and the hazards help prevent abuse of the stage's layout to rise to an extreme.
MK26
Smash Master
MK 1-2: hmmm...
Norfair: what about removing some edges somewhere?
Norfair: what about removing some edges somewhere?
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
then the second idea is fine, but i need someone to make the rain permanent.
no, but the small stage size and relatively close boundaries would still make it a good CP with ledges.
actually, if dant could try and give me a code for YI:M where it removed the collision from the right side, it would save me a lot of trouble (assuming it can't be done through hexing...).
the main problem being the hazards are too strong. i honestly have no idea how to move the platforms around, though, so whatever somebody comes up with i'll try first.
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
gimmegimme!
MK26
Smash Master
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
surprisingly, no. i have no idea why it and YI:M won't resize in-game. literally can't find any reason why it won't work. i've asked kryal, but he only asked a question and then never responded...
edit @ neko:
tell them to give it to me so i can make sure the water works when i adjust the angle.
edit @ neko:
tell them to give it to me so i can make sure the water works when i adjust the angle.
Revven
FrankerZ
Deciding what ledges to remove is difficult. Because iirc, tether characters like this stage because of the many, many, MANY amount of edges this stage has. I count a total of 6 edges, two on the left platforms, two on the right, and two on the main central platform on each side. Removing the top most platforms from each side destroys recovering from the blastzone because by that point, your character (unless you're Meta Knight or someone LIKE MK) will have lost most of his/her height gained from their second jump and would be far too low to reach the second platform's edge. If you kill the middle platforms, you stop planking techniques (which is good) but then the only lower edges after that are the central platform's which means you can't easily escape being edgeguarded against (*cough* TETHERS LIKE THIS STAGE BECAUSE THEY HAVE MANY EDGES AND HAVE MANY CHOICES UNLESS YOU'RE IVYSAUR! *cough*)
So the middle platform's are better to kill than the top but, probably not the best idea either. And the central lower platform is obviously not an option to kill the edges for UNLESS you want to kill one side of it only... come to think of it, you could do something interesting with Norfair this way.
Okay, let's say the left side has the two top platform's edges there, right? The bottom left side then has its edge killed on the central platform (just the left one). Then the right side could have the top platform's edge killed and keep the bottom central platform's edge and the platform above that can keep its edge. Obviously not what I would personally want but, just an EXAMPLE of what you could do instead of just choosing to kill one platform on both sides.
I dunno, while you kill planking with this idea (and any form of edge camping) you also hurt the main reason WHY it is CP'd. I really don't think you can salvage Norfair. At all unless you can combine the two platforms on each side into one and then move them onto the left and right sides. Thus having two bigger platforms above one smaller central platform and cut down the edges to four ... or two if you want to treat the two bigger platforms as actual platforms like on BF.
Perfect Chaos
Smash Master
For Distant Planet with infinite rain, you might want to make the ledge at the end of the left hill not grabbable; I could see the potential of stall abuse by planking there if the ledge is grabbable.
As for Norfair, I can see getting rid of all hazards and the two top-most platforms, but then it'll just be a pretty lame stage, regardless...
As for Norfair, I can see getting rid of all hazards and the two top-most platforms, but then it'll just be a pretty lame stage, regardless...
SymphonicSage12
Smash Master
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2009
- Messages
- 3,299
Um...the Mansion download link is still broken
All this stuff, and still no one knows how to actually change hazard hitboxes for real. That's critical to getting anything good done. Just removing hazards is bad design; good stage design preserves unique elements while increasing fairness. If we could edit hazards, that puts (for Bbrawl) PTAD and Flat Zone 2 (yes, Flat Zone 2) strongly in the legal camp and allows for general improvement to a lot of stages.
I intend to make a better version of Spear Pillar soon that removes the bottom area entirely and has a normal lower blast zone. I just need to get a good grip on some things in the stage files and find some free time. Seeing this topic will cause me to move this up on my priority list.
For Skyworld, what you really need is the ability to edit how much damage the platforms take. Ideally, the four with ledges should be very hard to break (like take 100%+ damage to break or something), the two top ones should be very easy to break (like take 5% damage to break), and the other three should remain the same. The dynamic of breaking platforms is interesting and fair, especially the idea of destroying ledges. It's just a little too powerful as things stand; the top ones that make teching too powerful take too much punishment, and it's too easy to break platforms to gimp people. Of course, Skyworld can only be a good stage if you also change Meta Knight's Mach Tornado so it can't do that silly thing it does here and on Luigi's Mansion, but for Bbrawl at least, that's already done.
I don't know about Brawl+, but in standard Brawl and Balanced Brawl both Norfair is a very fair stage. Why waste the time to change it? It would be especially bad with the ideas some people are floating since the platform layout it has is not only actually very fair, but it makes Norfair the single most fun stage to play on in the game. I could see a good argument for weakening the fire pillars a bit, but that's about the only real problem the stage has. I could explain more why Norfair is a very good and very fair stage (unless Brawl+ mechanics somehow screw it up?), but that's getting off-topic.
I definitely have a large interest in this stage hacking, but I am what you might call intent on preserving the "soul" of stages when they are edited. The new capabilities we have make me think we may be on the verge of getting some amazing stuff done, but the big things we still need are the ability to edit the hitbox data on hazards, edit the HP of destructible stage pieces, and mess with the way specific events work (like remove the floor crumble event on Spear Pillar. remove the speed up event on Rumble Falls, or rework the prize system on WarioWare). If anyone is working on anything that is productive to these ends and needs help in any way, be it me looking at something within whatever capabilities I have or testing or whatnot, I'm definitely instantly ready to help and ready to put some of this stuff to use.
If it's possible to change the timing of stage events via .pac editing (as opposed to via the codes), that would be pretty nice too. There's a nasty bug in the current code Bbrawl uses (and probably Brawl+ uses, unless they have updated it recently) that causes PT to spawn in t-pose frequently on Rumble Falls that could best be fixed by just moving the stage speed changes into the .pac.
I do, after all, have the dream of a Bbrawl with every stage legal. At the very least, every stage other than the huge loop stages.
I intend to make a better version of Spear Pillar soon that removes the bottom area entirely and has a normal lower blast zone. I just need to get a good grip on some things in the stage files and find some free time. Seeing this topic will cause me to move this up on my priority list.
For Skyworld, what you really need is the ability to edit how much damage the platforms take. Ideally, the four with ledges should be very hard to break (like take 100%+ damage to break or something), the two top ones should be very easy to break (like take 5% damage to break), and the other three should remain the same. The dynamic of breaking platforms is interesting and fair, especially the idea of destroying ledges. It's just a little too powerful as things stand; the top ones that make teching too powerful take too much punishment, and it's too easy to break platforms to gimp people. Of course, Skyworld can only be a good stage if you also change Meta Knight's Mach Tornado so it can't do that silly thing it does here and on Luigi's Mansion, but for Bbrawl at least, that's already done.
I don't know about Brawl+, but in standard Brawl and Balanced Brawl both Norfair is a very fair stage. Why waste the time to change it? It would be especially bad with the ideas some people are floating since the platform layout it has is not only actually very fair, but it makes Norfair the single most fun stage to play on in the game. I could see a good argument for weakening the fire pillars a bit, but that's about the only real problem the stage has. I could explain more why Norfair is a very good and very fair stage (unless Brawl+ mechanics somehow screw it up?), but that's getting off-topic.
I definitely have a large interest in this stage hacking, but I am what you might call intent on preserving the "soul" of stages when they are edited. The new capabilities we have make me think we may be on the verge of getting some amazing stuff done, but the big things we still need are the ability to edit the hitbox data on hazards, edit the HP of destructible stage pieces, and mess with the way specific events work (like remove the floor crumble event on Spear Pillar. remove the speed up event on Rumble Falls, or rework the prize system on WarioWare). If anyone is working on anything that is productive to these ends and needs help in any way, be it me looking at something within whatever capabilities I have or testing or whatnot, I'm definitely instantly ready to help and ready to put some of this stuff to use.
If it's possible to change the timing of stage events via .pac editing (as opposed to via the codes), that would be pretty nice too. There's a nasty bug in the current code Bbrawl uses (and probably Brawl+ uses, unless they have updated it recently) that causes PT to spawn in t-pose frequently on Rumble Falls that could best be fixed by just moving the stage speed changes into the .pac.
I do, after all, have the dream of a Bbrawl with every stage legal. At the very least, every stage other than the huge loop stages.
SymphonicSage12
Smash Master
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2009
- Messages
- 3,299
your skyworld+ idea: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
I love skyworld how it is now, minus the hitlag effect of the unbreakable platform...your ideas SUCKS! Imo....I don't care if it's "unique" blah blah blah, or not.
And the main priority, as I see it, is not "fun". It's fairness. I mean, temple is fun. Spear Pillar is fun to cave of life on it. But is it fair? no.
( I like fun tho)
And Norfair is not fair because of the stage hazards. Added hitstun + wall of lava = not fair.
And not to mention, this is ALL experimental anyway. Your so...adamant to them removing stuff from stages....
I love skyworld how it is now, minus the hitlag effect of the unbreakable platform...your ideas SUCKS! Imo....I don't care if it's "unique" blah blah blah, or not.
And the main priority, as I see it, is not "fun". It's fairness. I mean, temple is fun. Spear Pillar is fun to cave of life on it. But is it fair? no.
( I like fun tho)
And Norfair is not fair because of the stage hazards. Added hitstun + wall of lava = not fair.
And not to mention, this is ALL experimental anyway. Your so...adamant to them removing stuff from stages....
Shadic
Alakadoof?
Dude, shut up. He has a different mindset, and what he's doing is not related to B+, so back off. Stop reminding people that you're like, 12.
AA: The problem with Skyworld besides the cave of life is that getting anywhere where you can be hit against the bottom of the side platforms is just always a bad idea. For some characters with mediocre recovery, it can be an insta-KO
And while I agree with what should be done to Spear Pillar, I think your proposal goes against your goal of keeping stage mechanics intact. Maybe by making the entire base platform something that you could fall through and jump through, the full stage itself could be kept?
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
kind of like this idea, but yeah, it does destroy the point of multiple ledges for recovery.
how about instead of *****ing at us for working with what we have, you actually do some work and figure out how to edit the strength of stage boundaries. i'm happy you want an entire list of viable stages, but you're going to find its not as easy as "oh hey, you guys shouldn't remove that hitbox, just make it weaker!" How about you actually do somethign instead of just walking in, bashing on what we've done and then presenting entirely new ideas that, honestly, i find to be more of an insult to the game than anything.
your idea for spear pillar is essentially ****** any chance it might have at being both an interesting and still viable stage. we don't need any more flat, 2 platform stages. your skyworld idea is terrible, too. you're still promoting a cave of life idea by even having the platforms remain there. if they're there, they will respawn even if you destroy them (and this is assuming you can even figure out how to make the code) not to mention all the stage spiking that will be going on. good luck getting that to be considered legal by anyone.
so, while i respect what you are trying to do with BBrawl's stage list, how about you actually take a look at how editing stages works before telling us how we should be doing it.