The DK Match Up Thread.

[Darknid]

Wario and ZSS more than Falco..If Falco is SHDLing you, you can up B to get him..if he uses phantasm repeatedly, predict it with an up B or grab him out of it when you see him initiate the move.

Snake isn't very hard to learn how to beat, but he is hard to beat. For the next one I think you guys should handle Wario, ZSS or Diddy.

 

[~NeK~]

hm
very good work ripple but can we go on? xD

ZSS,Snake,Fox are intresting

 

[Darknid]

Ganon Or Falcon Please

 

[Ragnar0k]

lol we have absolutely no agreement. Half these have been covered 2 or 3 times before. Something needs to be done.

 

[crifer]

and ripple needs to update this more frequently, that´s why we have a new mu thread.

 

[Terra~]

Select a god**** character and talk about it lol
I'm making a chart of all characters match-up stats. I need people to keep working hard on DK :/ Bowser boards are totally getting things done quick. So you guys get to it! I'll make you all a nice shiny board with match-ups and picture and cookies and candy

 

[daisho]

Select a god**** character and talk about it lol
I'm making a chart of all characters match-up stats. I need people to keep working hard on DK :/ Bowser boards are totally getting things done quick. So you guys get to it! I'll make you all a nice shiny board with match-ups and picture and cookies and candy

HOLY **** A SHINY CHART!!!!!

I WANT COOKIES!!!


FOX!

Okay fox.

Lasers are annoying and can add up.

Down air is an amazing move. If he uses it head for the hills.

You can gimp him decently well. Use Cargo down throw and then ledgestall. If you can take away his second jump he is dead.

Watch out for up smash. It is extremely fast and powerful. It will kill you early (which we are NOT used to!)

Up B for us is great in this matchup. Since he is a fastfaller it will do ALOT of damage.

Bair outranges everything he has, abuse it.

I think thats about it. Now that I started hopefully someone who actually knows something will join in.

 

[Big O]

I think this kinda died because Genesis is around the corner. I doubt this is at the top of Ripple's priority list right now. I personally think we should do ROB/Wario/ZSS next though. They are some I don't think we really covered before and I have no real experience against any of them.

 

[Jmex]

Like i said before....

I think the characters should be one of the following:

Zss

Wario

Falco

Snake

In no particular order.

 

[Cyphus]

i'm really still unsure how i feel about wario. it seems 50/50 to me, but if i ever lost an entire stock to the chainthrow, i'd def change my mind. The chainthrow does so little damage (4% and ****), and its easy, but its just sooooo long theres alot of of room for error, and most people mess up eventually and you get out after 40% or so. grab release upsmash/giant punch KOs at 90% though...but its alot harder to grab him, while he grabs you easily after a jab, etc....mm.. prolly 60:40

zamus is also good. but i'm leaning towards pretty fair fight vs her.

u HAVE to get the lead on a gay falco to win. get the lead than plank the edge and play as absolutely gay as possible- and you can win. but getting ahead in the first place is very difficulty w/ lasers, phantasm, chaingrab...and although its almost impossible to catch up, falco can easily catch up to any lead DK has.

 

[daisho]

So for falco you think worse than 60:40?

 

[Ripple]

you guys need to agree on a character to discuss. I'm not always on here with my new job which is usually 8-5:30 everyday. I'll have enough time to update it about once a week but you guys haven't really posted anything that anyone responds to.

as for now discuss fox. we'll deal the top tier afterwords

 

[PhantomX]

Cyphus, if you put even a tiny amount of time into practicing the DK chainthrow, it really isn't hard at all.

I did it to some random guy the other day from 0-120 just to show that I could, takes like 30 seconds XD

P.S. come to things, we really need to play again (even though I'm scared, cuz you're too good T__T)

 

[Eyes]

Cyphus, if you put even a tiny amount of time into practicing the DK chainthrow, it really isn't hard at all.

I did it to some random guy the other day from 0-120 just to show that I could, takes like 30 seconds XD

Can you guys fill me in on this DK chain throw?

 

[Jmex]

So what character are we talking about?

Fox? Or Wario?

Why not both?

 

[Ripple]

go for it. just post something

 

[daisho]

Can you guys fill me in on this DK chain throw?

He was talking about the chain throw that wario has on DK.

 

[Eyes]

lol yea as soon as i posted that i was just like...dam, i really am the smash noob that smashboards so judgingly labeled me as haha

 

[Darknid]

Fox..60-40 DK advantage IMO. As usual, you will be the aggressor here, but there's one thing about Fox, he's not very hard to space, despite his speed. He's not very fast in the air, though he can punish you with his dash speed. Basically, you're going to want to play your usual game, space your tilts and bair. Your MO is to GET HIM OFFSTAGE. Unlike falco, there is pretty much no danger in following this guy, his side B won't spike you. Interrupt it as much as you can with bair. They will almost always try to recover with side B. Use the bair WOP as much as you can and if you see him charging that fire fox, you almost always want to edge hog instead of spiking.

Unique matchup points:

Fox can approach from above using dair. This isn't too hard to deal with, just shield or interrupt it with a U tilt. You should take 2% damage while he takes the full hit by utilt. Don't juggle him with utilt until he's got a good 20-30% on him though because he falls fast enough to land and shield.

Fox can punish VERY well with U smash. Be extremely careful, minimize lag as much as you can, he will kill you with it at 100% even with good DI. This, however, is his only great kill move, the rest aren't as fast and he can't do them out of a dash, so this is the one to avoid.

Fox can close a vertical gap VERY quickly. Don't think you are safe because you are high above him, because he will be right under you in a split second. Watch out for this, and don't charge punch when you're falling because he'll hit you right out of it to your death.

That's pretty much it. Oh, another useful tool in this matchup is the 9 wind punch, it will kill him at 30-50% near the edge. Surprise one with this and he'll **** bricks.

 

[D0N]

Questions that can be answered to encourage discussion:

If you shield a d-air and he hits you in front then its easy to deal with. You can just sheild grab him... If you shield a dair and he lands behind you, how exactly should you handle this keeping in mind his u-tilt is faster than yours?

When should you be on the look out for an u-smash? What moves should you avoid using to not get u-smashed?

The only things ill say for now is sometimes when I play fox, my shine stalling becomes predicatble and I get hit with an u-air and die earlier than I should. Also, I like to ledge hop f-air with fox, but today I was playing a friend and got SA punched for doing it one too many times. It sucked. I'll say more as discussion progresses.

 

[Veggi]

If Fox lands behind you, try doing a JC up b OOS. If that doesn't work (I'd think it would because of the super armor) try doing an ftilt in the opposite direction. I can up b OOS Kirby's dair and super armor his up tilt when he tries to use it after his dair, but Fox is different so it might not work.

 

[Ripple]

wait for the up tilt then pivot d tilt OOS

 

[crifer]

DK has no tool against utilt.
comes out on frame 3. when he is behind us, you can only try to roll away...

it´s really even, maybe slight DK advantage,
because Fox can deal a lot of damage to DK but all his approaches are not
reliable at all, except dash sheild grab...he approaches with aerials that does not hav as much priority as your aerials, your uair should beat like everything, bair too...
when he is offstage try to gimp him with bair and hang on the edge, so he only can recover onto the stage, which is punishable...
you kill fox @ 80-90 % with punsh or fsmash,
you just have to watch out to not get hit by fair or dair, that deals a lot of damage...
Fox usually kills with upsmash (110% if fresh), dsmash (120?), or bair (110%)...
so watch out for this moves...
The thing against Fox is that you can´t play defensive bc he will damage your sheild,
and that the worst case scenario, bc Fox can rack up damage with dair and fair strings insane fast....
so never let your sheild become small...
I searched for openings with shine stalling, that worked ,
if someone predict that if you are running you will use grounded upB, he can space himself so that he can punishes you for that...
As DK I would go for bair approach, sometimes downB or ftilt...
Also if you see Fox running to you (what he does not have to do, bc of laers)
expect a aerial or a grab,
so the best way to counter this is bairs, sh in the high of his aerial, it will beat anything...
lately I find myself using way more bair combined with sh, fh and dj, more as a spacing move and defense, Its almost unpunishable, upB is punishable...
try to edgeguard Fox with some fairs, dairs and bairs maybe upBs....
Fox is vunerable when he recovers....

 

[D0N]

I dunno about the up-b idea. I make it a point to wait for an u-tilt and then react if I block a d-air and he's behind me. pivot d-tilt sounds good OOS, i ussually grab but that misses sometimes. U-tilt comes out too fast for us to beat it with anything in that situation so move away or block. Sometimes I turn around before I block so they're in front of me and then sheild grab them if I predict the d-air behind trick. You could try to trade hits with an u-tilt while he d-airs i guess, but if the fox shine stalls to mess up your timing then your in a bad place.

Eventually I imagine the fox would grab after you keep blocking, in which case you should move if you see it coming of course. Generally, if fox d-airs behind DK it seems troublesome if the fox can mix up and isn't too predictable.

Fox's approaches may be unreliable, but he has lasers to make you approach. He doesnt really have to approach unless he's aggressive or going for a kill.

When your in KO range for fox's u-smash, be careful about f-tilting him. If its not spaced fully he can punish with u-smash. Im not sure about if it is spaced fully.

I personally hate this matchup. He's too quick for me.

 

[Cyphus]

fox is my 2ndary. fox is a beast, combos the crap outta DK, forces approach, and can punish lag w/ dash upsmash oos. its pretty even fight. too tired to talk about.

 

[crifer]

fox is my 2ndary. fox is a beast, combos the crap outta DK, forces approach, and can punish lag w/ dash upsmash oos. its pretty even fight. too tired to talk about.

same for me, same opinion.

 

[Darknid]

Fox should never be comboing you with anything but dair > grab/utilt and he isn't hard to approach.

 

[Ragnar0k]

**** happens though, so he will be comboing you with other moves. Watch out for rising fairs, they're really good and do ridiculous damage. In general fox will just combo you all over the place. Don't try to up tilt his drills when he's above you unless you know for certain he's going to drill, otherwise he'll just shine stall then drill your lag. You're better off just running backwards and bairing or jumping to him with an uair. Dair breaking helps a lot.

This is a video of me vs duo, the best fox in nc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ggcmvt9tC6s

say what you will but I think this is an akward matchup. If you don't know it well you will get *****.

 

[Darknid]

you can also pivot grab the dair which is what I do if there's a platform near me.

 

[Ragnar0k]

Yeah pivot grabs work extremely well when people are coming down on you vertically. I like to pivot grab after a few up tilts. It gets you away if they try to fall down with an attack and you grab them as they land if they try to air dodge. The only way most people can get away is if they waste their double jump but ultimately that's what you want them to do.

 

[Commander_Beef]

Gladly, Fox's up smash doesn't kill us until a meer 135-140% because of our muscle mass, and a smart Fox will keep the move fresh until that time to kill.
I think we can land a good upair after we cargo-up throw Fox because of his falling speed.
Jungle Japes is a great counterpick for Donkey Kong and it's good for this matchup since the ceiling is so high and Fox's up smash won't kill us until 150ish or 160, and we can solidly kill Fox horizontally with back air, forward smash. Watch out for Fox's side B abuse though. He can do it as much as Falco can.

 

[The Pope]

I've personally never had any problems with Fox players. I would say this match is 60/40 in DK's favor. Of course, if you don't know what to expect from a decent Fox player, you might find yourself getting comboed quite a bit.

Things to look out for...
1. D-air approach - This could lead to all sorts of things after a successful connection. u-tilt and up smash will be the most common follow up. Grabs and shines can also connect from this. As far as I know, you could grab after a successful shielding of the d-air. I usually do that or reposition myself away from Fox after a shielded d-air to get my spacing back in my favor.

2. Running up smashes - this could get you killed as early as 100% if you aren't careful. A whiffed down smash or a Giant Punch at a high percent can get you killed if a Fox can react fast enough to your lag. This will be Fox's main killing move.

3. F-air - This move is very deceptive because it looks like you won't ever get hit by it but you'll find yourself receiving this attack more times than you can count. DK being as big as he is, 9 times out of 10, you'll be hit by the entire thing. This move can rack up decent damage if you aren't careful. Expect this a lot when they are trying to get back up from the ledge.

4. Lasers - This may not seem like much but it can be annoying at times. Fox's will always try to get an opportunity to laser you when he is far from you. This can rack quite a bit of damage, especially if you are charging a Giant Punch or if you go overboard with the down B from afar. Also, don't forget that each laser replenishes all of his kill moves.

Other not so scary things to look out for are u-airs because they can kill at decent percent and the shine, which may kill you depending on how well the Fox can do it on you and how low you are from the edge. The b-air can kill you too.


In terms of fighting Fox, you won't have to much problems with the bread and butter approaches, the b-air., the f-tilt, and the d-tilt. Down B won't be as useful in this match because Fox loves to approach with d-air and sometimes f-air. He isn't hard to kill either. Edgeguarding him is ridiculously easier than Falco. His forward B can't spike you and it doesn't have much priority. His up B can easily be stopped as well. Spiking Fox can be a breeze and its even more easier to WoP him with b-air.

Trust me guys, Fox can't really do much to you. Your biggest problem is going to be your weight because Fox can combo you fairly well at low percents and medium percents but you can approach and space him with minimal danger to avoid this.

 

[Ragnar0k]

lasers replenish the knockback and damage of all his other moves so try to stay away from them unless you want to make his up smash fresher.

 

[daisho]

Great post pope, but Up Smash will certainly not be killing us at 100 %.

Unless its the top platform on brinstar, than maybe.

This discussion makes me happy. We should get some fox input, im going to post on their thread.

Edit: Nvm, i couldn't find their thread...

 

[Ragnar0k]

I'm pretty sure it can kill us at 100. If not then not much higher than that at all.

 

[daisho]

I just tested it but i must have done something wrong.

In training, DK could live up to 123 with DI.

(I used 1/4th speed since I can't DI and i had to use the up smash AND THEN switch controllers)

But that is with near perfect DI.


In normal speed I could survive a 100 then a 118 then a 136 without refreshing the move.

I think i lasted until about 110 without DI.

I remember that in training and in normal mode i got different numbers without DI. One i was able to live a fresh fox U smash at 115 without DI. The other I died at like 107.

Either way. If the fox's u smash isn't 100 percent fresh and you can DI decently he won't kill you till about 120.

 

[Ragnar0k]

good **** daisho. That's still relatively low for DK and it's pretty uncomfortable dieing at those %'s.

 

[The Pope]

So I'm guessing a bit over 100% with no DI and stage dependency. 123% is still pretty low for DK considering we're all used to dying at 160ish% or more.

I totally forgot to include his laser replenishing damage and knockback of moves. Remember this people.

 

[daisho]

But that is when the move is completely fresh. If not 100% fresh you can live till 135-140 with minimal DI.

 

[Ragnar0k]

lasers keep all his moves extremely fresh though.